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Wow, that's a great find. It's not so much joining the board, but this phrase "They will also receive a fee of 8.5% of any funds raised by them in equity offerings of the Company." indicates to me that he is actively trying to raise equity for another company, which seems to me to be not something I would be happy with were I a Skins shareholder. Very odd, IMHO.
Did you see about this over here?
http://biz.yahoo.com/e/090813/orgc.pk8-k.html
MK joined the board of another company.
No, they could have put their last $1 into a lottery ticket that hits too.
That would be good news and I think it's more likely than a buyout (at least one which is good for shareholders).
I truly think Skins has had their last possible financing session. There is no way they could do any more--the PPS would be microscopic. And if they don't have the new website up now, how will they ever get it up?
Does this mean the only good that is possible is a buyout of the company?
LOL! Thanks for that.
I was just going through the old PM's I was referring to. They make a little more sence now, but still ptretty "twilight zoneish".
No conclusions. I agree that unless you have direct evidence, it's better to keep quiet. I have LOTS of suspicions and some indirect evidence on other stocks, but my feeling is that simply highlighting the risks involved with a particular stock just based on it's financial results should be enough to give any investor who wants to learn the help they need. If people don't want to believe me or feel that "its only about the future" or are just greedy and think they can play along too, that's cool. My goal is just to say "consider this if you think it's helpful". From there it's up to each person who reads.
With any anonymous information, I think it's best to treat it as highly biased and working to the advantage of the poster. If it sounds reasonable you may want to work it into your own decision making. If not discard it. I've actually found that often times the harder a stock is hyped, the worse the news and the bigger and quicker the fall. Even for a stock that has no real bad news, hype brings in speculators and when the hype doesn't make them rich instantly, they bail at a loss and drive the price down further. IMHO smart companies would actively discourage hype to avoid this.
Anyway, I still think of you as one of the really good guys and envy your ability to give everyone the benefit of the doubt.
I agree 100%! That's why I said that was the point I realized how desperate things were.
Thing is, I'm not sure if Skins hired them. Don't go drawing conclusions from this. I got tid bits of information from people who thought I was someone else. I hate to put this out there because the story is really incomplete and I don't want to start the rumor mill. But, Skins did something that they paid for in stock, or at least partly in stock. The people they paid did the pump, not Skins. But, something happend and Skins pissed them of so they stopped cold turkey. I think Skins reneged on a deal or something like that they didn't like too much. It had something to do with financing. Then again it could have all been a lie to get me to start some rumor. No telling how those guys operate and use you as pawns. That was one reason why I didn't say anything about it at the time. It wasn't something I could confirm or prove.
Like I said, that is just putting a few pieces together and trying to complete the sentences. I didn't say anything earlier because I wasn't positive what it meant and I could be completely wrong in my assumption.
Well if it was Skins paying the promoters then I take back my limited sympathy for management.
And though you probably figured this out long ago, if you know or suspect paid promotion, the only buying you should even consider is very short term trades ahead of any momentum. Though even then, I think it's a little skeevy to take advantage of others' gullibility.
My experience tells me (and you may recall my warning about this on this very board) that when companies begin promoting their stock more than their product or service, it's a bad sign.
I didn't mean to imply anyone is guilty of "pumping and dumping". I'm just saying that those are the only people I have no sympathy for. My definition of a "pumper" though doesn't require outright lying - just posting one way and acting another. If you're buying and telling your friends and family "this is a great stock", I have no issue. It's the ones who are selling and posting "this is a great stock" that I take umbrage with.
Not my place to judge, that's up to God, karma, fate or individual's consciences.
While it's possible Skins hired promoters to move the stock (I certainly hope not, but who knows), I think it's far more likely that the "enthusiasm" which you feared came from those with a lot of shares or someone trying to set up a pump and dump. Paid promoters are of course supposed to disclose that (and pay a fee) at ihub. I'm sure not all do.
Well, personally, I took my lumps and suffered my consiquences. I'm on the sidelines now, but I keep watching. I really don't think the ones you imply in your post are guilty of what you implicate. However, I must state that I did not follow the Yahoo boards. Apparently there is more activity over there and I have no clue what is being said by who on that message board. But, in the context of this board, I don't think there was any "trickery".
As I alluded to in an earlier post. I am pretty sure there was a time when paid promoters were scabs on this board. That was when I was told "I thought you were someone else" in PM's. That was disturbing to me. I still had optimism that this company would work, but I think that was my first realization that these were desperate times for Skins.
I feel bad that the company wasn't able to make it (maybe), but I feel far worse for investors who lost most of their investment than for management and insiders who earned salaries and had none of their own money invested. They also had the opportunity to make it work and failed. I don't say it was intentional or even incompetence, it could just have been bad timing or bad luck, but investors had virtually no control. I also think that management could have been more forthcoming about the challenges they were facing along the way, but I would be the first to acknowledge that too much openness could easily have been interpreted as a breech of their fiduciary responsibility to make the company successful. I believe they lived up to the requirements of disclosing risks and adverse information in their SEC filings. If people dismissed those as unimportant then that is their own decision.
The only ones I have no sympathy for are any who tried to get others to buy into the stock to make their own shares worth more when they themselves would not further risk their own funds. Perhaps there were none.
Yeah JED (whoever that is) is not where my sympath lies either. Call me crazy, but I feel bad for Mark and the gang. I still believe they started this endevour with good intentions. Bad timing and bad decision making left it bad for everyone. Well, as you put it, maybe not so bad for JED.
I would hate to think JED has some tie to the company, but I guess all things are possible when it comes to desperation and money.
I suppose we should keep an eye on the SEC filings and see if they de-register their shares and become a non-reporting issuer of a new pinksheet stock.
But, then again, I'm betting JED has more control over this stock than Skins does at this point.
Personally I feel a lot worse for those who lost large sums investing in SKNN than I do for JED.
Secondly, JED could be selling shares (maybe even short selling, I don't know) at 1.2 cents, then (after they get the bid down to let's say 1 cent) buy them back at .35 of a cent. They just tripled their money. Remember, because they can convert looking backward, if they can sell first, their profit is guaranteed.
And we (or at least I) don't know who "JED" is. They could have some other tie to the company or its management. I may be wrong, but my guess is JED is not and will not be screwed here.
So, here we were worried about JED screwing over the company with their financing arrangments. Now it seems they are getting screwed instead. Doesn't matter how low you get your stock at due to some contract, if the company doesn't have any business anymore, then .0001 is .0001 too much. What will JED do now?
Perhaps this will have more value as an empty shell.....
I'm not here to gloat, but this is the problem with virtually every micro cap OTC issue - funding. Certainly the current credit situation didn't make it any better, but there is this notion that a "great idea" is all it takes to have a successful company.
It takes money. Money drives marketing and advertising. It drives manufacturing, distribution and sales. It pay salaries for corporate staff. And you need it up front. You can't rely on your "great product" to provide cash while it's being established.
2 aborted launches and heavily discounted convertible debentures meant Skins not only had these issues, but the problems of the past to overcome. I personally never saw the product as an amazing idea, but even if it was, it still needs money.
I don't think it's fair to say they didn't try. They probably tried as best they could given the limited funds they had to operate with.
Hope is great if you're a founder. For an investor, it's often very expensive.
Good luck to all.
I posted this on Yahoo:
I sent out an email to Footwear Etc. to get what information I could about Skins being pulled. I got a reply. I was told they are not carrying Skins anymore and that they didn't know if Skins was going to continue with the product line. The word wasn't official one way or the other, but it doesn't look good--especially for any hope of a fall launch.
I can't imagine this being the end. They didn't even try. Absolutely no effort went into the recent launch. Horrible, horrible, horrible. I guess I won't be surprised either way it goes, but I truly hope something good happens. We'll see.
The e-commerce website never even got a try...
This morning I am still seeing the footwear etc. skins ad. When you go to it, it is footwears home page, No skins.
I posted it on Yahoo, so might as well mention it here as well: Skins has been pulled from Footwear Etc.
I hope so. Today was the most active in a while. Maybe something brewing, maybe just bottom fishing by speculators.
Could be just flipping. Some "large" trades at .011/.012 then others at .015 - nice 30-40% profit in one day. Of course the total activity was something like $15k for the day, so no one is getting rich.
Wow, High volume.Maybe some news, finally.
no prob... i knew there was an explanation... everything is cool, at least i learned something new...
From the 6/24 S-1
"Our Articles of Incorporation authorize the issuance of 436,363,650 shares of common stock, $0.001 par value per share. As of June 16, 2009, there were 80,257,123 outstanding shares of common stock."
plus there's a potentially large overhang of convertible debentures at a large discount to the bid looking backward for 10 days (I think, you can check the SEC filings to get the exact deal).
So whatever the number currently outstanding, you'll have to account for the debentures and you'd have to guess at the price of the stock if/when those get converted. There are also some options and warrants, but they're likely all under water.
does anyone know if these are still current?
Authorized Shares (AS) = 436,363,650 shares
Outstanding Shares (OS) = 56,066,793 shares
It does look like things are in a bad way here...Have been following since beginning of year. And except for a brief pump in price, it has headed south
This stock has been walked down for several months, and it is not board posters doing it
Looks like things are changing here
Thanks for the comments mantzes. I think the product as originally conceived (2 skins, 1 bone for around $60) was good. In it's final implementation (1 skin, 2 bones 1/2 size apart, $150) was a non-starter.
But you're right that financial statements are key to understanding any investment. Promotion is important, but having funds available to do promotion is the starting point. Not having to go to heavily discounted convertible debentures is also a big plus.
I agree that on balance this has been one of the good boards and I credit that to the mod, but I think you'll find there are some single-stock cheerleaders here as well.
Bottom line, it's never a good idea to invest based on MBs or e-mail/website tips. People promoting a stock are not doing it to make you rich. A rising tide lifts all boats, so you may get lucky, but reading financial statements will create better investing than all the MBs, PRs and touts combined.
LOL, I guess too many years on anonymous MBs have made me a "very guilty until proven over and over again to be innocent" guy. I've seen too many games to think otherwise.
That's a great story about becoming an assistant mod. I think it almost has to be a mistake as I've not come across any other boards NOT controlled by those who were heavily promoting the stock.
Thanks, but I'm not criticizing you for being positive - I think on balance you've been very objective and fair, not only in your posting but as mod.
I also agree that scams are worse than investments that simply go bad, but I do think that people are generally better able to spot a scam more easily than a very risky investment. I also find that in most cases, there are more people posting warnings about scam stocks than about those with bad balance sheets and overvalued based on future expectations with little regard for either past performance or what it takes to achieve those future expectations, which of course is far more than an honest and capable management.
I am also not as trustful or forgiving of those who attempt to convince others to buy a stock using an anonymous MB when they clearly are not either buying themselves or making the same recommendations to their friends and families. Clearly we'll have to agree to disagree about who that covers, but I think it's fair to say I am far more skeptical of people's motives than you (very un-Tolle like, to be sure).
Again, thanks for your support and thanks for your objectivity, you are truly the rarest of mods in my ihub experience.
Kezzek, on my own behalf, you have been helpful. I don't always agree, but that is the point. You have provided very useful information, everyone here has.
I feel very gratified in my atte,ptes to do what you are doing her, but in other places. The one BIG difference between SKNN and the other places I post like you is intent. Regardless of where Skins is today, I honestly feel like they started off with good intentions. Perhaps something got skewed out of purpose or just unfortunate circumstances along the way, but it started off with good intent. Therefore, I still am hopeful for Skins even in this seemingly hopless situation.
As for the other places I post, I lost a little money after digging into who was behind the managment of those companies. It didn't take long to fine and prove a track record of decipt from those guys. Therefore their intent was bad from the start. Those stocks and people are despicable! Over there is real blatant dishonesty. Something I have been fighting for some time and only now can ease away because finally more people see what I saw and are also taking a stand.
So, my long winded point is... yes, I catch your drift. I appreciate your input. But, I am able to be a little more positive here because I really believe this started in a good place. It may not be in the same place now, but at least, they know where they want to go. Those other guys have never had the intention of doing the right thing.
Honestly, I have no idea how I came across Skins, but usually it's because someone cross posts on another board I'm reading/posting at Yahoo.
I certainly would love to find an OTC issue that looks promising and get in on the ground floor, but so far I have not been so lucky.
Again, though I find honest and valuable posting to be reward in and of itself, even without financial gain, I don't see anything "noble" about it. Maybe that's what I get for being a fan of Eckhart Tolle.
I still find it incredible that contributing good information to a message board and helping others make better investment decisions would lead anyone to "question my interest or motives".
Isn't that really the point of ihub and other message boards? Do you really think that a forum made up of only shareholders who wanted to see the price move higher at any cost would be of any value to anyone.
FWIW, while I am very gratified to think that I may have saved some anonymous board readers from losing money in a poor investment my real gratification comes from knowing I acted honestly and for the betterment of the board. I hope that one day everyone posting will be able to say the same.
Best of luck.
Well, your reasoning for them possibly moving to pinksheets is a bit more cynical than mine, but either way we would end up in the same place.
I will not delete anything because within the post is very valid points from both of you. I just think calling Faith dishonest is unjustified. Go read some other pinksheet stock you see me post on. THAT is dishonesty and I have been on a focused campaigne for some time to out those lies. I don't see this as anything remotely similar to that.
As for me having blinders on, that is not true. I have always known the cards were vastly stacked against me. I also knew that any money I invested here was money that I could lost and not be affected by the loss. I think Faith and Nala are in the same camp, though I can not speak for them.
I don't think you are a basher, just like I don't think any of us are pumpers. Some posts are based more on opinion than fact, that I will admit. But, none have been outright basless pumping or bashing.
I do think there is a moral or ethical resposibility to inform others of an impending hazard, but at some point they have to take some responsibility for their own actions. It's not my job to babysit or hold anyones hand. At some point there is no one to blame but yourself.
I can't see much benefit to JED to keep the price down aside from gaining control if it gets so low that their debentures convert to a majority. Skins management would certainly not be a participant in that game not only because it would hurt them, but because any sort of planned manipulation (like withholding important information to get people to sell) would be outright illegal, to say nothing of the civil suits I would expect investors in the company to bring once it became apparent what had happened. Even JED on their own risks suits and charges of illegal manipulation if they do anything to actively raise or lower the price.
The cost of filing is minimal and many OTC companies file late just because they can. I think the major reason to move from BB to PK is to avoid having to provide information to shareholders on the SEC's schedule.
You are more than welcome to delete my posts if you feel they cross the line into a personal attack.
I believe strongly that people should be responsible for what they post, not just in the strictest legal sense, but in the general moral sense. If someone is going to be enthusiastic about a stock simply because they own it and it's in their own self interest, I think it's important to caveat that.
I know there are many who do not and who feel "if you listen to advice posted on an anonymous MB, you will get what you deserve". Not my POV.
I specifically tried to point out that I am not trying to single out Faith (though he/she is the one who continues to suggest there is reason to buy the stock with which I disagree). I would agree that there are many posters on this board that have had blinders on (you included), but Faith (and Nala) has been a bit more aggressive, IMHO with such posts as "SKNN off the naked short list" and her post to me that "if you had plunked your money down ... it would have doubled".
Again, you're the mod so it's your call. I will restate that I accuse no one on the board of outright lies in the sense of posting untruths purported to be fact, but I do consider encouraging people to buy a stock in which you yourself don't believe any longer, simply so you will lose less to be "dishonest", at least without some sort of caveat as to your perspective.
I've made my point to the people to whom I felt it needed to be made now, so I'm happy to have you delete anything you feel is offensive. None of those posts provide any value to the board in general, IMHO.
I suspect you are correct about the pinksheet listing. My WAG is the next, or soon, filig will be a 15G (I think that's it) where ther will become a non-reporting company. If I'm not mistaken, it cost money to report to the SEC and PR's. If they have no money, then they will stop filing and unregister their shares from the SEC, which in affect will make them a pinksheet listing.
Again, if I 'm not mistaked, I believe the last few 10K filings were late due to the financial burden of filing on time. If they had some cash then and it was a burden, I can only imagine what a burden it is now.
Perhaps another possibility is that JED wants the shares lower for some reason. Maybe so they can convert their shares sub-penny. I'm not really up to speed on the logistics behind that. Anyway, if that is somehow possible, they could have made Skins managment agree to a slient period so no hype would drive the price back up. Just thinking out loud on that one.
Kezzek, since I seem to be the only one with some sort of authority over posts here. I have to say, you are on the edge of personal attacks.
You are implying that faith has been dishonest or is involved in some sort of trickery. I feel you understanding of positive thinking and mischievious pumping is blurred.
At what point did Faith lie? When did he say something like "News coming soon!". When did he ever talk about some email he personally got from the company that stated wonderful things to come... an email that no one else got.
I have no recollection of Faith ever stating anything dishonest. At most, his claimes have been hopeful and we are all probably a little guilty of hoping for the best when the facts point to the worst. But, no one has ever been dishonest and outright lied about anything.
I'm sure they would have to report it, but few OTC companies actually take that step. There's little incentive for a company with negative book value and a large working capital deficit. The company has no assets to speak of that would pay back creditors in a liquidation so the creditors incentive is to try to keep the company limping along and hope the company figures out a way to stay in business and pay them back one day.
My WAG is that at some point the suppliers and manufacturers told SKNN that they would not produce any more goods unless they got cash upfront and JED and the other financing sources said they would no longer fund SKNN. That would likely lead to a stalemate where everything grinds to a halt but the company remains technically in business (i.e. not BK).
It could just slowly fade away as all the employees leave/are terminated, but more likely (IMHO) is that it undergoes massive dilution with new stock issued and sold at a small fraction of a cent providing however enough funds to either limp along waiting for a new opportunity (basically becoming a shell company) or to push ahead with the product line (if there really is hope for it). Either way, it requires investors who are willing to take a chance even though they are paying far less than the current price for the shares. JED's debentures won't be hurt because their price is based on past value, so even massive dilution just reduces their cost per share and increases the number of shares they can convert to.
So (again, all MHO) they can't "keep dragging you along" forever, but they can sit tight until they find someone willing to provide funds or limp along as a shell without filing for bankruptcy. They could become a non-filer (PK) which would basically keep shareholders pretty much guessing as to what was going on I guess.
No matter what, I don't see much hope for current shareholders to see other than significant decreases in their holdings, but with 1% of the company now worth $10k, there probably isn't a huge incentive to get out unless you want a tax loss, IMHO.
Regarless of my recent posts, I agree with you 100%. You can't deny they have a product. How well does that product sell? That is the question.
If I had to guess, I'd say Kezzek was on the right track. Because of their most recent financing, there is now a seperation between the product performance and the stock performance. The Skins managmen sold out with thie latest financing agreement. They gave control of their stock to that other place that fronted Skins money. With that agreement, the Skins product line stayed in the hands of Skins managment, but the stock is now in the hands of JED or whoever.
In time, I hope, the stock will eventually get back to being product based and not venture capitalist based.
kezzek, is there a certain amount of days a company is required to report bankruptcy within? I tried to find the regulation, but I couldn't. I'm asking because wouldn't Skins be forced to release a PR about bankruptcy if it occurred? They couldn't just keep dragging us along, right?
I don't know that anyone listened to you, or to me. I only wish you had issued that disclaimer, as well as your own motivation when the stock was much higher.
That's all I ask - be honest and if you can't be as forthright as you know you should be, at least let people know you're keeping rose colored glasses on because it's in your best interest to do so, not because you want to make them rich. And I'm not singling "you" out personally, just those who try to bring in new investors for their own gains.
I'm happy if I save some people from losing money by looking a little harder at their investments, but in the end, my real goal is to bring out the true value of this and other message boards by encouraging everyone to act honestly and post facts and analysis that help investors make better decisions. That to me is teaching someone to fish instead of providing them a meal.
Best of luck with SKNN and I really do think it would be a great service to both you and the board if you contacted (or attempted to) Skins management and relayed the results of that effort here.
I am glad people listened to you; you saved them some money. I am caught up in this stock. I do still have hope, but yes, things are looking glum. Investing is a serious decision, and I would caution everyone to thoroughly research before making that decision.
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