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soxfan,
What was my course of action, and how would you have any clue to what its results would have been.
Obama is doing a great job accomplishing your number one goal, everyone is equally poor and completely dependent on the Democratic party.
So if they followed your course of action - which was to do nothing what would of happened? Do you know what the word hypocrite means?
N4807g,
Well finally there's good news for the Administration and the left.
Obama has finally forced 800 Fat Cats out of work yesterday, enough of these hi level executives making huge sums more than the normal worker.
Congrats!!!
Next month these 800 dealership owners can join their 52,000 employees at the unemployment line and they can all make the same amount.!!!!!!
Change we can believe in!!! Everybody's Happy now!!!
Who needs a tax base? Risk premiums will rise, and the government will sink further into debt.
yes i know, you tried to put your own spin on it
you created your own fairytale to defend torture rather than analyze the facts staring you in the face
what i posted was not a "theory"... keep tap dancing
Washington Post Editorial.....
Road Hazards Ahead
President Obama may call them 'speculators,' but the economy needs private investors.
Thursday, May 14, 2009
DESPITE a massive infusion of government cash, General Motors is slowly and almost assuredly limping toward bankruptcy. The company's stock has been hovering just above the $1 mark for the past few days, and chief executive Fritz Henderson has signaled that bankruptcy court may be the best -- or perhaps only -- venue in which the company can come to terms with its creditors. GM -- and its partner, the U.S. government, which could get as much as a 50 percent equity stake in the company -- have set themselves a deadline at the end of this month to decide what to do.
And therein lies the potential danger. The government's intervention in GM's financial affairs tilts the scales so dramatically in the company's (read: government's) favor that it risks shutting out the legitimate interests of some creditors in favor of politically connected players who are owed much less and have less of a claim to the company's money. GM bondholders, for example, are being pushed to accept a 10 percent equity stake in repayment of their $27 billion in loans to the company. The United Auto Workers, on the other hand, is being offered a 35 percent equity stake in exchange for its claim of roughly $10 billion -- a claim that would typically be wiped out in bankruptcy. It is hard to blame bondholders for refusing to cave in to the government's pressure, especially because some of them bought insurance against a possible GM bankruptcy; that insurance would pay them more than $2 billion in cold, hard cash -- instead of in potentially worthless stock should the company file for Chapter 11 protection.
There is reason for GM creditors to be uneasy, especially after the government's hardball tactics in the recent Chrysler bankruptcy. In that case, hedge fund investors who refused to accept the government's low-ball offers were demeaned by the president as "speculators" and all but blamed for driving the automaker into insolvency. Once in bankruptcy court, these creditors fared no better, in large part because the government's decision to provide operating funds for Chrysler gives it an outsized power to shape the reorganization. While the hedge funds are likely to receive less than 30 cents on the dollar, a health-care fund controlled by the UAW is being handed a 55 percent ownership stake in Chrysler. If bankruptcy rules had been strictly followed, the union would have been entitled to little, if any, return.
Extraordinary times call for extraordinary measures, and it was with this thought in mind that we endorsed the federal government's decision to pump billions of dollars into the automakers. But the spectacle of creditors being stripped of their legal rights in favor of a labor union with which the president is politically aligned does little to attract private capital at a time when the government and many companies need these investors the most. Investors' fears will only be compounded if the administration follows a similar blueprint with GM.
When is enough, enough?
Obama Administration Expands Housing Aid Plan
By Renae Merle
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, May 14, 2009 12:23 PM
The Obama administration announced new features of its foreclosure prevention plan today, including new incentives for lenders that help borrowers even when the assistance does not keep them in their homes.
The $75 billion housing plan focuses on paying lenders to modify the loan of distressed borrowers to affordable levels. But under the part of the program unveiled today by Treasury Secretary Timothy F. Geithner and Housing and Urban Development Secretary Shaun Donovan, lenders will be eligible for payment even if borrowers lose their homes.
"If a modification is not possible, we are also announcing steps to encourage the quick private sale or voluntary transfer of property, which will save homeowners money and protect their financial future," Geithner said. "These are critical steps in stemming the foreclosure crisis and stabilizing the housing market."
For example, if the homeowners do not qualify for a loan modification, their lenders could receive up to $1,000 if they allow the home to be sold in a short sale. In such deals the lender accepts less than the value of the mortgage. The homeowners might also be eligible for $1,500 for relocation expenses.
The administration also announced details of a $10 billion feature of the program that would shield lenders from losses associated with falling home prices. If a lender modifies a loan and the homeowner falls into foreclosure later, the lender could face more losses in the eventual sale of the property if home prices have fallen in the interim. The incentives in this part of the program will encourage loan modification in areas where home values have fallen dramatically, according to a summary of the program.
In the two months since it launched, the Obama administration's foreclosure prevention plan has outperformed the government's previous attempts, offering more than 50,000 homeowners lower-cost mortgages.
"It represents the type of aggressive response we needed from the beginning" of the foreclosure crisis, said John Taylor, head of the National Community Reinvestment Coalition.
Yet the $75 billion program, known as Making Home Affordable, has been implemented unevenly by lenders, leaving some homeowners frustrated and bewildered.
The demand from distressed borrowers has overwhelmed many lenders and nonprofit organizations, which have hired more staff to cope. Donovan said today that HUD would request $100 million for its housing counseling program in fiscal 2010, up $35 million from the 2009 budget allocation. But there is also a growing concern about whether the plan can reach its goal of helping up to 4 million homeowners without tackling the issue of borrowers who owe more than their home is worth.
LOL! I should have read your posts first, so I wouldn't have had to do mine today.
I asked you before and you didn't answer, or you gave me a wrong one. How do you know this to be true?
I have no clue where you're going with this but there were no ag pictures that were supposed to be released at this time.
It's true that the ACLU is concerned mostly with torture photos that were taken outside of Abu Ghraib, and that's the part that the mainstream media focused on when they did their reporting, but hundreds of other photos were going to be released too.
Another news report.......
Whitman said the Pentagon would release 44 photos already identified in the court battle with the ACLU, along with a substantial number of others. A U.S. defense official said the number of pictures released would be in the hundreds.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUKN24417721
Too funny........
Wake up sweetheart. The conversation started with my post #2272 regarding Obama's decision not to release THE PHOTO'S.
Post #2272:
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=37794041
I think you're talking about this post, Post #2276
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=37796695
Where in that post of yours does it mention only 44 photos? Highlight it, and post it for me because I don't see it in that particular post and that's the one I first responded to.
And by the way, since your heading was No Photo's??? I wonder why?, tell me why, or are you still wondering?
I'll refer you back to this statement, where more than the 44 photos had been planned for release.....
As it stands, the Pentagon plans to release hundreds of photos related to the case and is choosing not to include the substantial number of additional photos submitted as evidence, many of which did not lead to disciplinary action.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/04/25/source-petraeus-wants-release-photos-showing-detainee-treatment/
Soxfan,,,,
By any chance would you be woofer's father, mother, sister, husband or child?
The aclu press release is in response to the judges response just like the DOD.
I have no clue where you're going with this but there were no ag pictures that were supposed to be released at this time.
enough said.
I know you can't connect two dots on a page so I will help you overcome your inadequacy:
The DOD doesn't determine what they will or will not release - nor will the POTUS. It will be the courts. Understand!
Soxfan:
This is your post, so what can't you understand?? Now, I made it bold and I also underlined it. Let me know if you need more help.
You know I hate to give you a clue but I see you need help:
In a letter addressed to a federal court today, the Department of Defense announced that it will make public by May 28 a "substantial number" of photos depicting the abuse of prisoners by U.S. personnel. The photos, which are being released in response to a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) lawsuit filed by the American Civil Liberties Union in 2004, include images from prisons in Iraq and Afghanistan at locations other than Abu Ghraib.
So in order to assist you in understanding that is WHAT the DOD will release NOT what the ACLU wants as they have sued for much more. So please get a freaking clue will you.
You know I hate to give you a clue but I see you need help:
In a letter addressed to a federal court today, the Department of Defense announced that it will make public by May 28 a "substantial number" of photos depicting the abuse of prisoners by U.S. personnel. The photos, which are being released in response to a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) lawsuit filed by the American Civil Liberties Union in 2004, include images from prisons in Iraq and Afghanistan at locations other than Abu Ghraib.
So in order to assist you in understanding that is WHAT the DOD will release NOT what the ACLU wants as they have sued for much more. So please get a freaking clue will you.
Soxfan,
I see you conviently stopped the ACLU Press Release chain on March 2nd, 2009.
Well I'm sure you'll be surprised to learn there was another ACLU press release on April 23rd 2009. All I can say is that the ACLU clearly stated that there were NO ABU GHRAIB photo's.
Now if you read it differently take it up with the ACLU.
Defense Department To Release Prisoner Abuse Photos By May 28 In Response To ACLU Lawsuit (4/23/2009)
Photos Depict Abuse Of Prisoners By U.S. Personnel In Iraq And Afghanistan
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
CONTACT: (212) 549-2666; media@aclu.org
NEW YORK – In a letter addressed to a federal court today, the Department of Defense announced that it will make public by May 28 a "substantial number" of photos depicting the abuse of prisoners by U.S. personnel. The photos, which are being released in response to a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) lawsuit filed by the American Civil Liberties Union in 2004, include images from prisons in Iraq and Afghanistan at locations other than Abu Ghraib.
"These photographs provide visual proof that prisoner abuse by U.S. personnel was not aberrational but widespread, reaching far beyond the walls of Abu Ghraib," said Amrit Singh, staff attorney with the ACLU. "Their disclosure is critical for helping the public understand the scope and scale of prisoner abuse as well as for holding senior officials accountable for authorizing or permitting such abuse."
The letter follows a September 2008 ruling by the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit requiring disclosure of the photos and the court's subsequent refusal in March 2009 to rehear the case. The Defense Department has indicated that it will not ask the Supreme Court to review the Second Circuit's ruling.
Since the ACLU's FOIA request in 2003, the Bush administration had refused to disclose these images by attempting to radically expand the exemptions allowed under the FOIA for withholding records. The administration claimed that the public disclosure of such evidence would generate outrage and would violate U.S. obligations towards detainees under the Geneva Conventions.
However, a three judge panel of the appeals court in September 2008 rejected the Bush administration's attempt to use exemptions to the FOIA as "an all-purpose damper on global controversy" and recognized the "significant public interest in the disclosure of these photographs" in light of government misconduct. The court also recognized that releasing the photographs is likely to prevent "further abuse of prisoners." The Bush administration subsequently requested that the full Court of Appeals rehear the case. That request was denied on March 11, 2009.
"The disclosure of these photographs serves as a further reminder that abuse of prisoners in U.S.-administered detention centers was systemic," said Jameel Jaffer, Director of the ACLU National Security Project. "Some of the abuse occurred because senior civilian and military officials created a culture of impunity in which abuse was tolerated, and some of the abuse was expressly authorized. It's imperative that senior officials who condoned or authorized abuse now be held accountable for their actions."
The Department of Defense letter is available online at: www.aclu.org/safefree/torture/39453lgl20090423.html
To date, more than 100,000 pages of government documents have been released in response to the ACLU's FOIA lawsuit. They are available online at: www.aclu.org/torturefoia
Many of these documents are also compiled and analyzed in "Administration of Torture," a book by Jaffer and Singh. More information is available online at: www.aclu.org/administrationoftorture
In addition to Jaffer and Singh, attorneys on the case are Judy Rabinovitz of the national ACLU; Arthur Eisenberg and Beth Haroules of the New York Civil Liberties Union; Lawrence S. Lustberg and Jenny Brooke Condon of the New Jersey-based law firm Gibbons P.C.; and Shayana Kadidal and Michael Ratner of the Center for Constitutional Rights.
Alex G.
I didn't defend torture, What I did was seperate your theory so that you could just put the blame on torture.
you'll go to any lengths to defend torture won't you
pitiful
Alex G
What if Al-Shay wasn't tortured in Egypt yet made the exact same comments over an Starbucks Latay? Would everything have been ok then?
The root of the problem is we went forward on the basis of one persons statements, not how those statements were derived.
Here is the long agonizing details:
http://www.aclu.org/images/torture/asset_upload_file501_33165.pdf
For more than five years, the ACLU has been fighting to unearth government documents that would show the origins and scope of the Bush administration’s torture program.
In October 2003, the ACLU and other organizations—the Center for Constitutional Rights, Physicians for Human rights, Veterans for Common Sense, and Veterans for Peace—filed a request under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) for documents concerning the treatment of prisoners held by the United States overseas. The FOIA request was meant to determine whether the government’s interrogation policies were consistent with domestic and international
law.
The Bush administration initially stonewalled. In April 2004, however, CBS’s “60 Minutes” broadcast photographs of prisoners being abused by U.S. military personnel at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq, sparking outrage around the world. The ACLU filed a lawsuit to enforce its request for documents.
The court, clearly influenced by the Abu Ghraib photographs,
issued a strongly worded ruling, ordering the government to respond to the ACLU’s request. The court wrote: “If the documents are more of an embarrassment
than a secret, the public should know of our government’s treatment of individuals captured and held abroad.”
Since that ruling, the FOIA litigation has yielded more than 100,000 pages of government documents, some of them critical to the public’s understanding of the government’s interrogation and detention policies.
Collectively, the documents show that the administration’s
lawyers invented a new legal framework—what President Bush once called a ‘new paradigm’—meant to permit barbaric interrogation practices and to insulate
interrogators and officials from prosecution for war crimes. Relying on this new legal framework, interrogators
subjected prisoners to abuse and even torture.
The documents show that the abuse of prisoners was systemic, not limited to Abu Ghraib, and indeed that hundreds of prisoners have died in the custody of the U.S. military and that many others have disappeared
into the CIA’s secret detention system.
THE TRUTH ABOUT TORTURE ACCOUNTABILITY
Despite the voluminous evidence that senior Bush administration officials authorized torture, the only people who have been held accountable for the maltreatment of prisoners are low-ranking soldiers. This is unacceptable. If we want to turn the page on the Bush administration’s torture policies, we need to begin with meaningful accountability.
• Transparency. The Obama administration should disclose the torture files that are still secret.
• Criminal investigation. No one—not even senior government officials—should be above the law. The Justice Department should appoint an independent prosecutor to examine criminal responsibility for the Bush administration’s torture program.
• Congressional oversight. Congress should form a select committee with subpoena power to review past and present national security laws and activities and recommend legislative changes to prevent gross human rights abuses by future administrations.
Through litigation under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA), the ACLU and its partners have obtained more than 100,000 pages of government documents relating to the abuse of prisoners in U.S. military and CIA detention centers around the world. But the documents were released only after the ACLU filed a lawsuit to enforce the public’s right of access to information about government conduct.
Since October 2003, the ACLU has filed dozens of legal briefs to enforce this right, and courts in New York have issued dozens of orders requiring the government to comply with the law. More than five years after the ACLU’s initial FOIA request, some crucial documents are still being withheld.
2003
10/07/03 ACLU files first FOIA request for documents concerning interrogation and abuse
2004
04/28/04 CBS “60 Minutes” broadcasts photographs of abuse at Abu Ghraib
05/25/04 ACLU files second FOIA request for documents concerning interrogation and abuse
06/02/04 ACLU files lawsuit to enforce pending FOIA requests
09/15/04 district court orders government to
respond to ACLU FOIA requests
12/07/04 ACLU obtains documents showing that special forces threatened military personnel who reported abuse
12/20/04 ACLU obtains documents showing that military interrogators impersonated FBI agents during abusive interrogations at Guantánamo
2005
01/05/05 ACLU obtains emails in which FBI agents describe military interrogators’ use of “torture techniques” at Guantánamo
03/29/05 ACLU obtains directives that allowed interrogators in Iraq to use abusive methods including sensory deprivation
04/19/05 ACLU obtains autopsy reports indicating that numerous prisoners were killed in custody
05/25/05 ACLU obtains documents showing that prisoners complained in 2002 that interrogators at Guantánamo desecrated
the Qur’an
08/16/05 district court orders Defense Department to unseal legal briefs arguing that torture photos should be kept secret
09/29/05 district court orders Defense Department to disclose torture photos
2006
04/11/06 Defense Department authenticates photographs of prisoner abuse at Abu Ghraib
09/06/06 President Bush acknowledges that CIA set up secret overseas prisons and subjected prisoners to “alternative” interrogation methods
11/14/06 CIA admits existence of memos authorizing secret prisons and “enhanced interrogation methods”
2007
12/06/07 New York Times reports that CIA destroyed 2 videotapes showing prisoners being waterboarded
12/12/07 ACLU moves to hold CIA in contempt for destruction of interrogation videotapes
2008
04/01/08 ACLU obtains March 2003 legal memo, written by John Yoo, which argued that torture was lawful
05/27/08 ACLU obtains heavily redacted CIA Inspector General report that discusses use of waterboarding
07/24/08 ACLU obtains heavily redacted legal memo, written by Jay Bybee, that authorized the CIA’s use of torture methods
09/22/08 appeals court affirms lower court ruling requiring Defense Department to release torture photos
2009
03/02/09 CIA acknowledges that it destroyed 92 interrogation videotapes, including 12 that showed use of “enhanced interrogation methods”
What torture IS good for...
The best refutation of Dick Cheney's insistence that torture was necessary and useful in dealing with threats from al-Qaeda just died in a Libyan prison. See also Andy Worthington.
Al-Qaeda operative Ibn al-Shaykh al-Libi was captured trying to escape from Afghanistan in late 2001. He was sent to Egypt to be tortured, and under duress alleged that Saddam Hussein was training al-Qaeda agents in chemical weapons techniques. It was a total crock, and alleged solely to escape further pain. Al-Libi disavowed the allegation when he was returned to CIA custody. But Cheney and Condi Rice ran with the single-source, torture-induced assertion and it was inserted by Scooter Libby in Colin Powell's infamous speech to the United Nations.
If torture can mislead you into launching a war that results in hundreds of thousands of deaths, then it should be avoided, quite apart from the fact that it is illegal and that the United States is signatory to binding treaties specifying its illegality. (It is coming out that Bush-Cheney's own CIA Inspector-General expressed the view that the Bush-era torture was medically unsound, did not produce the desired results, and contravened the UN Convention against torture.
Here is what Condi Rice told the Lehrer News Hour in 2002, based on the torture-induced statements of the late al-Libi:
' "We clearly know that there were in the past and have been contacts between senior Iraqi officials and members of Al Qaeda going back for actually quite a long time," Rice said. "We know too that several of the [Al Qaeda] detainees, in particular some high-ranking detainees, have said that Iraq provided some training to Al Qaeda in chemical weapons development." '
In my book, Napoleon's Egypt: Invading the Middle East, I note that Gen. Bonaparte forbade the use of torture by French military interrogators in Cairo, on the grounds that it produced too much misinformation. Napoleon was not exactly squeamish. And even he would have been ashamed of the crew we had in Washington before last January.
http://www.juancole.com/2009/05/al-libi-case-eloquent-testimony-against.html
The lawyer for the ACLU was on Chris Matthews yesterday and said the photo's were from all over including Abu Ghraib - do you really think there are only those few photo's. Do you think the law suit was amended since the Abu Ghraib trails are over? Do you think?
Unrestrained greed....Unions vs. Taxpayers
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124227027965718333.html
Soxfan,
From what I gather the photo's are the result of the ACLU court case.
The ACLU court case did not deal in Abu Ghraib because those photo's were being used in the military criminal case.
Check your facts.
For Kripes sake I posted the ACLU letter twice last night and you clowns still don't agree with it. Read the friggin thing, and if you can't understand it maybe you could find a 1st grader that could explain it to you.
The photos, which are being released in response to a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) lawsuit filed by the American Civil Liberties Union in 2004, include images from prisons in Iraq and Afghanistan at locations other than Abu Ghraib.
It's way passed time to make selections for any perceived race or sex reason. The best person should get the job and that's it.
Nope....I can still faintly discern the image of a horse.
You are wrong - some of those photo's are from Abu Ghraib
I believe there are over 2,000 unreleased photo's from all over.
It's not Obama's decision not to release those photo's but the courts. So far the courts have said - Release them.
I'd be in favor as well as the ACLU would be in favor of not releasing them if Obama decides to have a special prosecutor look at the evidence and take it where it leads them for prosecution if necessary.
Fortunately Obama seems to have a little common sense on this.
I guess the witch hunt crowd won't be happy over this. "He said the abrupt reversal of his position came out of concern that the pictures would "further inflame anti-American opinion" and endanger U.S. forces in Iraq and Afghanistan."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30725189/
Of course for some of the more rabid "witch hunt" crowd they would cut off their nose to spite their face. I doubt the real bipartisanship dies any time soon.
Woofer,
Wake up sweetheart. The conversation started with my post #2272 regarding Obama's decision not to release THE PHOTO'S.
Where, why and how you ever expanded it from there is your own ramblings.
I talked only about the Obama situation.
Tincture of Lawlessness
Obama's Overreaching Economic Policies
By George F. Will
Thursday, May 14, 2009
Anyone, said T.S. Eliot, could carve a goose, were it not for the bones. And anyone could govern as boldly as his whims decreed, were it not for the skeletal structure that keeps civil society civil -- the rule of law. The Obama administration is bold. It also is careless regarding constitutional values and is acquiring a tincture of lawlessness.
In February, California's Democratic-controlled Legislature, faced with a $42 billion budget deficit, trimmed $74 million (1.4 percent) from one of the state's fastest-growing programs, which provides care for low-income and incapacitated elderly people and which cost the state $5.42 billion last year. The Los Angeles Times reports that "loose oversight and bureaucratic inertia have allowed fraud to fester."
But the Service Employees International Union collects nearly $5 million a month from 223,000 caregivers who are members. And the Obama administration has told California that unless the $74 million in cuts are rescinded, it will deny the state $6.8 billion in stimulus money.
Such a federal ukase (the word derives from czarist Russia; how appropriate) to a state legislature is a sign of the administration's dependency agenda -- maximizing the number of people and institutions dependent on the federal government. For the first time, neither sales nor property nor income taxes are the largest source of money for state and local governments. The federal government is.
The SEIU says the cuts violate contracts negotiated with counties. California officials say the state required the contracts to contain clauses allowing pay to be reduced if state funding is.
Anyway, the Obama administration, judging by its cavalier disregard of contracts between Chrysler and some of the lenders it sought money from, thinks contracts are written on water. The administration proposes that Chrysler's secured creditors get 28 cents per dollar on the $7 billion owed to them but that the United Auto Workers union get 43 cents per dollar on its $11 billion in claims -- and 55 percent of the company. This, even though the secured creditors' contracts supposedly guaranteed them better standing than the union.
Among Chrysler's lenders, some servile banks that are now dependent on the administration for capital infusions tugged their forelocks and agreed. Some hedge funds among Chrysler's lenders that are not dependent were vilified by the president because they dared to resist his demand that they violate their fiduciary duties to their investors, who include individuals and institutional pension funds.
The Economist says the administration has "ridden roughshod over [creditors'] legitimate claims over the [automobile companies'] assets. . . . Bankruptcies involve dividing a shrunken pie. But not all claims are equal: some lenders provide cheaper funds to firms in return for a more secure claim over the assets should things go wrong. They rank above other stakeholders, including shareholders and employees. This principle is now being trashed." Tom Lauria, a lawyer representing hedge fund people trashed by the president as the cause of Chrysler's bankruptcy, asked that his clients' names not be published for fear of violence threatened in e-mails to them.
The Troubled Assets Relief Program, which has not yet been used for its supposed purpose (to purchase such assets from banks), has been the instrument of the administration's adventure in the automobile industry. TARP's $700 billion, like much of the supposed "stimulus" money, is a slush fund the executive branch can use as it pleases. This is as lawless as it would be for Congress to say to the IRS: We need $3.5 trillion to run the government next year, so raise it however you wish -- from whomever, at whatever rates you think suitable. Don't bother us with details.
This is not gross, unambiguous lawlessness of the Nixonian sort -- burglaries, abuse of the IRS and FBI, etc. -- but it is uncomfortably close to an abuse of power that perhaps gave Nixon ideas: When in 1962 the steel industry raised prices, President John F. Kennedy had a tantrum and his administration leaked rumors that the IRS would conduct audits of steel executives, and sent FBI agents on predawn visits to the homes of journalists who covered the steel industry, ostensibly to further a legitimate investigation.
The Obama administration's agenda of maximizing dependency involves political favoritism cloaked in the raiment of "economic planning" and "social justice" that somehow produce results superior to what markets produce when freedom allows merit to manifest itself, and incompetence to fail. The administration's central activity -- the political allocation of wealth and opportunity -- is not merely susceptible to corruption, it is corruption.
georgewill@washpost.com
Do you think gender matters when it comes to selecting a Supreme Court Justice? Leaving out consideration for "fairness" completely, which one of these set ups would you think represented "the people" most?
1) All male Justices
2) All female Justices
3) Half male, half female
Court Opening Prompts Question About Whether Gender Matters
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124224875423016657.html
›MAY 14, 2009
By JENNIFER S. FORSYTH
Following Supreme Court Justice David Souter's retirement announcement earlier this month, court watchers were immediately unified on one point: his successor would likely be female.
Why the emphasis on gender? After all, there are no Asians, Hispanics or Muslims, male or female, on the court. But the lack of women is widely perceived as the gap that most needs to be addressed.
It stems partly from the idea that a nearly all-male court raises questions of fairness. Women are underrepresented not only on the Supreme Court but in all legal leadership roles, including Fortune 500 general counsels and law-school deans. Although women have made up about half of law-school graduates in the past two decades, they serve as about 19% of federal judges, according to the Federal Judicial Center.
So far, President Barack Obama hasn't said anything about the gender of the next justice. And according to a new Gallup poll, 64% of Americans say it doesn't matter to them whether the next justice is a woman. But most of the names frequently mentioned as potential nominees are women. Among them: federal appellate judges Diane Pamela Wood and Sonia Sotomayor; Elena Kagan, U.S. solicitor general; and Pamela Karlan and Kathleen Sullivan, both Stanford University law professors.
In fact, advocates for a female nominee are so sure this is their time that it could make waves if Mr. Obama chooses one of the few men whose names have been floated, such as California Supreme Court Justice Carlos Moreno.
On the Supreme Court, the first female justice, Sandra Day O'Connor, was the lone woman for 12 years before President Bill Clinton nominated Ruth Bader Ginsburg in 1993. And when Justice O'Connor retired from the court in 2006, the court again became a one-woman institution, as Samuel Alito took Justice O'Connor's seat.
But those pushing for a female nominee say the need on the court isn't only a matter of perception.
"It goes far beyond my own selfish interest to have my daughter grow up and be able to look at this highest court and see people who look like her," says Hannah Brenner, executive director of the University of Texas Center for Women in Law. Rather, Ms. Brenner contends that the court, and the country, benefits from people with varying experiences and viewpoints.
Justice Ginsburg has made that point herself. In an interview with USA Today last week, she discussed the attitude of her colleagues during recent arguments in Safford Unified School District No. 1 v. Redding, in which school officials looking for pain medicine strip-searched a 13-year-old girl. She said the male justices didn't understand what a sensitive age that is for young females. "They have never been a 13-year-old girl." Justice Ginsburg declined to comment for this article.
Some experts, particularly conservatives, say such statements demonstrate the danger in making gender, or race, the main criteria for picking a nominee. It risks that justices will come to see themselves as needing to represent the views of a particular group, rather than acting as an umpire who remains neutral about who wins and loses, as Chief Justice John Roberts has described the role.
"When you make appointments based on particular ascriptive criteria, the justice sooner or later could say, 'Oh, OK, I better reflect the desires of the constituency to which I belong," says Stephen Presser, a legal historian at Northwestern University. "You have to be very careful of having the court be a representative body and thinking about it in political terms, because that weakens the rule of law."
An analysis published in the Yale Law Journal in 2005 suggests that the presence of a female justice can play a role in the courtroom. In a review of 556 federal appellate cases, the study found judges' gender increased the likelihood that the court would find for the plaintiff in sexual-harassment and sexual-discrimination cases. In addition, male judges were more likely to find for these plaintiffs when at least one female judge was on the panel.
Jay T. Jorgensen, a partner at Sidley Austin LLP who previously clerked for Justice Alito and former Chief Justice William Rehnquist, says he saw first-hand how life experience can inform the justices' discussion. In 2000, the court heard a case called Public Land Council v. Babbitt, which centered on grazing rights. Justice O'Connor, who had been raised on a ranch, was able to elevate the discourse due to her knowledge of the industry. Yet, Mr. Jorgensen makes the point that her life experience didn't predetermine her vote. The court ruled 9-0 against the ranchers.
Deborah Rhode, director of the Center on the Legal Profession at Stanford University, says studies show that legal ideology is a stronger predictor than gender of judges' decisions.
That is why women's groups didn't agitate as strongly for a woman nominee when President George W. Bush filled two vacancies. President Bush nominated his chief of staff, Harriet Miers, but she withdrew her name after a withering assault that questioned her qualifications and lack of conservative credentials.
"People who care about women's issues realize that not just any woman will do," Ms. Rhode says.
But with a big pool of accomplished female jurists to choose from, advocates for a female appointee say, is there any reason the next pick should be a man?
Given the list of potential nominees, says Ms. Brenner of the Texas law center, "there is no one who can argue there is not [an] overwhelming number of qualified women who could be nominated to the court."‹
Hasn’t this topic pretty much played itself out as far as this board is concerned?
I'm curious how Soufan will be shouted down. And Zelikow.
It's interesting to see how those in the trenches have completely different experiences than those watching from their offices.
And why is anyone interviewing Dick Cheney's daughter anyways? Was Chelsea Clinton not available? Megan McCain too easy a "get"? The mainstream media needs some serious help... and balls.
jbog- I had to go back and reread the entire thread, and then saw where you changed the argument to only focus on the 44 photos....
This one:
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=37798988
Remember when I recently accused you of pulling straw man's arguments? You did it again.
To refresh your memory:
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=37427942
Now, back to our debate-
Less than a month ago.........
Gen. David Petraeus, along with a number of other high ranking military officials, believe all the pictures related to allegations of detainee abuse should be released -- a number that would total in the thousands -- a senior defense official close to the U.S. military commander told FOX News.
The White House, Pentagon, and Department of Justice agreed this week they could no longer effectively argue their case to keep sealed the photos showing U.S. troops potentially abusing prisoners in Iraq and Afghanistan.
As it stands, the Pentagon plans to release hundreds of photos related to the case and is choosing not to include the substantial number of additional photos submitted as evidence, many of which did not lead to disciplinary action.
Petraeus on his own is not in a position to change that decision, although it's possible his influence, along with other high ranking officials, could sway the Defense Department toward releasing thousands of photos between now and May 28, the deadline agreed to by the government in resolving a 2004 lawsuit filed by the American Civil Liberties Union.
Petraeus and others believe an advantage in getting all of them out would be to avoid going through this process again.
But the Defense Department would rather release the hundreds of photos and match them with the disciplinary action taken in order to potentially soften the blow, sources have told FOX News.
Releasing thousands of photos would go beyond what the ACLU has asked for because not all the photos were deemed to illustrate illegal activity.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/04/25/source-petraeus-wants-release-photos-showing-detainee-treatment/
Our Morals
This california tape is about an hour old. Where does this fit into our "nations morals".
You guys know, the morals that waterboarding has ruined.
Woofer,
The ONLY photo's that were to be released were ordered released by an federal judge because of an ACLU freedom of information lawsuit. That's why you keep on reading about the judge.
Here is ACLU letter:
NEW YORK – In a letter addressed to a federal court today, the Department of Defense announced that it will make public by May 28 a "substantial number" of photos depicting the abuse of prisoners by U.S. personnel. The photos, which are being released in response to a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) lawsuit filed by the American Civil Liberties Union in 2004, include images from prisons in Iraq and Afghanistan at locations other than Abu Ghraib.
"These photographs provide visual proof that prisoner abuse by U.S. personnel was not aberrational but widespread, reaching far beyond the walls of Abu Ghraib," said Amrit Singh, staff attorney with the ACLU. "Their disclosure is critical for helping the public understand the scope and scale of prisoner abuse as well as for holding senior officials accountable for authorizing or permitting such abuse."
The letter follows a September 2008 ruling by the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit requiring disclosure of the photos and the court's subsequent refusal in March 2009 to rehear the case. The Defense Department has indicated that it will not ask the Supreme Court to review the Second Circuit's ruling.
Since the ACLU's FOIA request in 2003, the Bush administration had refused to disclose these images by attempting to radically expand the exemptions allowed under the FOIA for withholding records. The administration claimed that the public disclosure of such evidence would generate outrage and would violate U.S. obligations towards detainees under the Geneva Conventions.
However, a three judge panel of the appeals court in September 2008 rejected the Bush administration's attempt to use exemptions to the FOIA as "an all-purpose damper on global controversy" and recognized the "significant public interest in the disclosure of these photographs" in light of government misconduct. The court also recognized that releasing the photographs is likely to prevent "further abuse of prisoners." The Bush administration subsequently requested that the full Court of Appeals rehear the case. That request was denied on March 11, 2009.
"The disclosure of these photographs serves as a further reminder that abuse of prisoners in U.S.-administered detention centers was systemic," said Jameel Jaffer, Director of the ACLU National Security Project. "Some of the abuse occurred because senior civilian and military officials created a culture of impunity in which abuse was tolerated, and some of the abuse was expressly authorized. It's imperative that senior officials who condoned or authorized abuse now be held accountable for their actions."
The Department of Defense letter is available online at: www.aclu.org/safefree/torture/39453lgl20090423.html
To date, more than 100,000 pages of government documents have been released in response to the ACLU's FOIA lawsuit. They are available online at: www.aclu.org/torturefoia
Many of these documents are also compiled and analyzed in "Administration of Torture," a book by Jaffer and Singh. More information is available online at: www.aclu.org/administrationoftorture
In addition to Jaffer and Singh, attorneys on the case are Judy Rabinovitz of the national ACLU; Arthur Eisenberg and Beth Haroules of the New York Civil Liberties Union; Lawrence S. Lustberg and Jenny Brooke Condon of the New Jersey-based law firm Gibbons P.C.; and Shayana Kadidal and Michael Ratner of the Center for Constitutional Rights.
http://www.aclu.org/safefree/torture/39455prs20090423.html
jbog- How would you know this?
Now here's the point: THE PHOTO'S THAT OBAMA WAS GOING TO RELEASE WERE NOT TAKEN AT ABU GHRAIB.
Here's another article on the subject. I'm sure that you like FOX News, soooooooo........
The Obama administration had assured a federal judge that it would turn over the material by May 28, including one batch of 21 photos and another of 23 images. The government also told the judge it was "processing for release a substantial number of other images," for a total expected to be in the hundreds.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/05/13/obama-employ-legislative-tactics-block-release-detainee-photos/
Are you privy to something that I'm not? Did you find an actual accounting of what photos came from what country? And how many from each country?
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The search for a Supreme Court nominee has been trimmed to about half a dozen candidates by top White House officials, and an announcement may come by month's end, two sources close to the selection process tell CNN.
Presidnet Obama says he wants his nominee to be in place before the Supreme Court's next session.
Among the finalists are federal appeals court judges Sonia Sotomayor and Diane Wood, and Solicitor General Elena Kagan, Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano and Michigan Gov. Jennifer Granholm, said the sources, who asked not to be identified because they were not authorized to speak by the White House.
Women make up all but one of the top candidates currently being given serious scrutiny, the sources said.
Also on the list, a source said, was California Supreme Court Justice Carlos Moreno. The 60-year-old Los Angeles, California, native was not among the early favorites mentioned by legal analysts and the media. White House press secretary Robert Gibbs previously hinted some of the names under consideration were under the political radar.
Has anyone been impressed by Napolitano yet?
Woofer:
Your recent posts talking about photo's are in reference to photo's taken at Abu Ghraib.
The senators, congressmen are only talking about photo's taken at Abu Ghraib.
You even told me were Abu Ghraib is located.
Now here's the point: THE PHOTO'S THAT OBAMA WAS GOING TO RELEASE WERE NOT TAKEN AT ABU GHRAIB.
Maybe your problem is that you can't read very well.
The majority of the torture videos and photos are from Abu Ghraib, however I did say this.......
And of course I'm talking about the Abu Ghraib photos as well as those from other countries where we were doing our torturing.
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=37799070
You just got done telling me that cnn, congressmen, senators and everyone else says that the photo's that Obama was going to release were from Abu Ghraib.
I just got done telling you that they are from other countries as well, the majority from Abu Ghraib. I repeated that fact twice here, and once before in a previous post.
Get a clue sweatheart.
Do you remember me telling you that you'd look so much better if you could admit defeat (that you're wrong) now and then? Well, I'm repeating myself again.
I never met anyone like you before. That's a good thing.
Woofer,
You just got done telling me that cnn, congressmen, senators and everyone else says that the photo's that Obama was going to release were from Abu Ghraib.
The pictures that were going to be released were not photo's from Abu Ghraib.
You posted some silly BS from wiki that deals with the Abu pictures.
Get a clue sweatheart.
Over and out.
Unfreakin' Unbelievable!...........
Now admit your mistake honey.
You're wrong for about the 20th time we've ever had an argument. I don't remember me being wrong in any one of them. Feel free to post one where I was wrong and you were right though....mr bog.
Woofer,
Sweetheart, read the ACLU letter and you'll see you are on the wrong path with the wrong photo's. The tip off for me was ""other than Abu Ghraib.""". Now admit your mistake honey.
NEW YORK – In a letter addressed to a federal court today, the Department of Defense announced that it will make public by May 28 a "substantial number" of photos depicting the abuse of prisoners by U.S. personnel. The photos, which are being released in response to a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) lawsuit filed by the American Civil Liberties Union in 2004, include images from prisons in Iraq and Afghanistan at locations other than Abu Ghraib.
"These photographs provide visual proof that prisoner abuse by U.S. personnel was not aberrational but widespread, reaching far beyond the walls of Abu Ghraib," said Amrit Singh, staff attorney with the ACLU. "Their disclosure is critical for helping the public understand the scope and scale of prisoner abuse as well as for holding senior officials accountable for authorizing or permitting such abuse."
The letter follows a September 2008 ruling by the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit requiring disclosure of the photos and the court's subsequent refusal in March 2009 to rehear the case. The Defense Department has indicated that it will not ask the Supreme Court to review the Second Circuit's ruling.
Since the ACLU's FOIA request in 2003, the Bush administration had refused to disclose these images by attempting to radically expand the exemptions allowed under the FOIA for withholding records. The administration claimed that the public disclosure of such evidence would generate outrage and would violate U.S. obligations towards detainees under the Geneva Conventions.
http://www.aclu.org/safefree/torture/39455prs20090423.html
jbog- I guess you don't realize that Abu Ghraib is in Iraq. And of course I'm talking about the Abu Ghraib photos as well as those from other countries where we were doing our torturing.
Maybe I'm wrong but these 44 unreleased photo's pertain to our treatment of prisioners in Iraq and Afganistan. When you mentioned Senator Ron Wyden and Congresswoman Ellen Tauscher I'm guessing that you are referring to the Abu Ghraib pictures.
Now, can I tell you that you're going off the deep end and that CNN backs up my "trash" as you put it? Or isn't CNN going to be good enough for you either? When they speak of "Lawmakers" below, they are mostly referring to members of Congress.....
Lawmakers have viewed hundreds of other images and video clips that have not been released publicly, and many have said the images are even worse than those broadcast.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/05/13/abuse.interrogation/
Woofer,,,,,
Maybe I'm wrong but these 44 unreleased photo's pertain to our treatment of prisioners in Iraq and Afganistan. When you mentioned Senator Ron Wyden and Congresswoman Ellen Tauscher I'm guessing that you are referring to the Abu Ghraib pictures.
I don't believe the 44 unreleased pictures are from Abu.
By the way, if Senator Wyden says they are bad and Congresswoman Tauscher says they are not you make the proclaimation that they are bad?
If only I could say what I'd love to say to you....if only....
You're going off the deep end and just posting trash from sites that have no credibilty. I'm not sure when any one Senator would have seen the pictures. I'll take the Presidents word at this point.
It still doesn't support your claim.
I have a question for you though. What if I find a Senator besides Senator Wyden from a credible source (in your eyes) who says that what hasn't been released yet, is worse than what we've already seen? What will you say? Will it mean that it's you instead of me who has gone off the deep end? Will I be able to say that you've gone off the deep end without being banned? What do you think there, mr. bog?
Clinton Wants Healthy Banks Encouraged to Repay TARP (Update1)
By Hans Nichols
May 13 (Bloomberg) -- Former President Bill Clinton urged the Obama administration to make a “genuine effort” to encourage healthy banks to repay the Troubled Asset Relief Program so financial institutions can set executive compensation without fearing a public backlash.
“Give them a chance to pay it back and maybe just give it back without the interest or anything else,” Clinton said in an interview with Bloomberg News. The government could say, “You’re back on your own; pay whatever you want” to executives, he said.
The administration should “go back to all these TARP recipients who in effect were told by” former Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson to accept funds and let them repay loans, Clinton said. “The people who were told by the previous government that they had to take the TARP money, once these restrictions came down, they should have had the opportunity to give the money back to avoid” government interference on pay for executives and other matters.
The former president also said in the interview, after appearing on a panel at Brookings Institution in Washington, that Larry Summers, Clinton’s last Treasury secretary, would make a good chairman of the Federal Reserve. He said he also likes Summers in his current role as head of President Barack Obama’s National Economic Council.
“I like knowing that he’s where he is,” Clinton said, “for the simple reason that he lived eight years through this system we set up.” Asked if Fed Chairman Ben S. Bernanke should be reappointed, Clinton said, “That’s beyond my pay grade. Whoever the president appoints is fine with me.”
Views on Greenspan
Clinton defended former Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan and said that as president, he made “absolutely” the right decision to reappoint him. Still, he faulted Greenspan for arguing against regulation by the Securities and Exchange Commission of derivatives trading and said that he regretted not challenging the Republican-controlled Congress to insist on regulation.
“He was wrong about one thing,” said Clinton, citing Greenspan’s position on derivatives regulation and how he persuaded Clinton’s economic advisers to adopt a hands-off approach. “I regret that and even though I could not have succeeded, the Republicans would have blocked me, I wish I really would have raised a lot of Cain about that.”
To continue (I had to go outside and never got to finish my last post)........and thinking about it, this should be enough.
Lawmakers disagreed over whether the additional photos were worse than those already released, with Senator Ron Wyden saying the new pictures were "significantly worse than anything that I had anticipated [...] Take the worst case and multiply it several times over." while Congresswoman Ellen Tauscher said the pictures were "not dramatically different". It was speculated that they depict dogs snarling at cowering prisoners, women forced to expose their breasts at gunpoint, hooded prisoners being forced to masturbate, and of forced homosexual acts.[12]
The New York Times, in a report on January 12, 2005,[14] reported testimony suggesting that the following events had taken place at Abu Ghraib:
Urinating on detainees
Jumping on detainee's leg (a limb already wounded by gunfire) with such force that it could not thereafter heal properly
Continuing by pounding detainee's wounded leg with collapsible metal baton
Pouring phosphoric acid on detainees
Sodomization of detainees with a baton
Tying ropes to the detainees' legs or penises and dragging them across the floor.
Sergeant Samuel Provance from Alpha Company 302nd Military Intelligence Battalion, in interviews with several news agencies, reported the sexual abuse of a 16-year-old girl by two interrogators [15], as well as a 16-year-old son of an Iraqi general, who was driven through the cold night air on the open back of a truck after he had been showered and besmeared with mud in order to get his father to talk.[16] He also pointed out several techniques used by interrogators that have been identified as being in violation of the Geneva Convention. He spoke to the media, even against direct orders, about what he knew about at the prison (largely from conversations and interactions with the interrogators). He explained that he did so because there was "definitely a cover-up" underway by the Army. He was administratively flagged and had his top secret clearance suspended in retaliation by the Army. A detailed statement by Sgt. Provance concerning these and numerous other abuses at Abu Ghraib and his treatment by the army is available.[17]
In her video diary, a prison guard said that prisoners were shot for minor misbehavior, and claimed to have had venomous snakes bite prisoners, sometimes resulting in their deaths. By her own admission, that guard was "in trouble" for having thrown rocks at the detainees.[18] Hashem Muhsen, one of the naked men in the human pyramid photo, said they were also made to crawl around the floor naked and that U.S. soldiers rode them like donkeys. After being released in January 2004, Muhsen became an Iraqi police officer.[19]
It was discovered that one prisoner, Manadel al-Jamadi, died as a result of abuse, a death that was ruled a homicide by the military.[20]
One detainee claimed he was sodomized. The Taguba Report found the claim ("Sodomizing a detainee with a chemical light and perhaps a broom stick") to be credible.[21]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_torture_and_prisoner_abuse
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