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Woofer,
You're going off the deep end and just posting trash from sites that have no credibilty. I'm not sure when any one Senator would have seen the pictures. I'll take the Presidents word at this point.
It still doesn't support your claim.
jbog- I distinctly remember a few Senators saying that. I'm about to do a search to find some old news clips. Here's the first one so far....
http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/157903.php
I'll be back as I find more.
Not a Senator yet, but here's another-
The International Committee of the Red Cross says that it has photos that are even worse than the ones that have been shown to date.
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/analysis/2004/0506_apology.htm
First Senator, and more....
Kids sodomized at Abu Ghraib, Pentagon has the videos - Hersh
by Gryn
Share this on Twitter - Kids sodomized at Abu Ghraib, Pentagon has the videos - Hersh Wed Jul 14, 2004 at 08:33:32 PM PDT
(From the diaries -- kos) Seymour Hersh says the US government has videotapes of boys being sodomized at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.
"The worst is the soundtrack of the boys shrieking," the reporter told an ACLU convention last week. Hersh says there was "a massive amount of criminal wrongdoing that was covered up at the highest command out there, and higher."
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/7/14/193750/666
Poorgrad,
These "photo's" have been used in court in 2004 when Bush prosecuted a handful of military people. Obama's only reason to release these photo's was because of a lawsuit filed by ACLU.
While the military lost the ACLU freedom of info suit (hence it had to release the photos), the military today convinced
Obama released the following reasons:
The about-face came after the administration announced last month it had agreed to release hundreds of photos from US-run prisons in Iraq and elsewhere in response to a long-running lawsuit brought by the American Civil Liberties Union.
Obama reconsidered the decision after US military commanders warned the that the photos could be used as a recruiting tool for extremists and jeopardize the safety of US troops, the Pentagon said.
The photos were used as evidence in criminal investigations of US soldiers accused of abusing detainees during president George W. Bush's administration.
Federal courts have ruled against the government in a series of decisions but Obama had instructed administration lawyers to try a new argument that the photos could put troops in Iraq and Afghanistan at risk, the White House said.
Obama said issuing the photos would "inflame anti-American opinion and put our troops in greater danger" without shedding any new light on past abuses under the previous administration.
He told reporters "that the publication of these photos would not add any additional benefits to our understanding of what was carried out in the past by a small number of individuals."
"I want to emphasize that these photos that were requested in this case are not particularly sensational, especially when compared to the painful images that we remember from Abu Ghraib," he said.
Photos showing abuse of inmates at the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq caused global outrage and were exploited by Al-Qaeda and associated groups to recruit and rally anti-US sentiment.
Obama also said he was concerned that the images could have a "chilling effect" on future investigations into abuse.
He added that "any abuse of detainees is unacceptable" and would not be tolerated under his administration.
The decision meant the government would renew its legal fight against the release of the images, possibly appealing to the Supreme Court.
The president "doesn't believe that the government made the strongest case possible to the court and asked the legal team to go make that case," White House spokesman Robert Gibbs said.
The Bush administration had argued against the release of the photos in part by saying it violated the privacy rights of the detainees under the Geneva Conventions.
Woofer
Do you realize that the worst photos have never been shown?
Where did you come up with that? As far as I know these pictures haven't been released. Do you have inside info?
Here's what Obama said today. He must be lying:
Obama said issuing the photos would "inflame anti-American opinion and put our troops in greater danger" without shedding any new light on past abuses under the previous administration.
He told reporters "that the publication of these photos would not add any additional benefits to our understanding of what was carried out in the past by a small number of individuals."
"I want to emphasize that these photos that were requested in this case are not particularly sensational, especially when compared to the painful images that we remember from Abu Ghraib," he said.
he changed his position because the top U.S. commander in Iraq Gen. Ray Odierno asked him to, fearing that it would endanger troops
>If Obama has changed his position to support our military<
What does that mean?
Poorgrad,
If Obama has changed his position to support our military, I take my hat off to him. If he changed his tune because of political reasons it's just more of the same old.
We're told tonite that the pictures are not as bad as those from Abu Grahib, and if that's so I see no reason to withold them.
Number 2).........
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=37796857
No Photo's??? I wonder why?
FBI Interrogator Ali Soufan, who questioned Zubaydah, testifies that torture didn't work!
Ali Soufan, the former FBI interrogator who wrote a riveting op-ed against the use of torture -- and he should know, since he was interrogating Abu Zubaydah himself -- testified under oath today that he got information out of Zubaydah quickly using basic FBI methods; and that information was then used successfully to capture "the bad guys." Then, when the CIA forced torture on Zubaydah, they got nothing.
It knocks down Liz and Dick Cheney's talking points all to hell. They have been saying that waterboarding uncovered crucial information, but Soufan refutes that as well.
David Shuster goes over his testimony and it's incredible. Soufan also got more information by using his own techniques later on and was thrown off the interrogation detail for his success. The high wizards of BushCo. wanted to torture these people, and we know why: See "Abusive tactics used to seek Iraq-al Qaida link" for more.
Soufan said torture is too slow and unreliable, as evidenced by the 83 times Zubaydah was waterboarded.
Soufan: It's merely an exercise in trying to force compliance rather than elicit cooperation. A major problem is that it is ineffective. Waterboarding itself had to be used 83 times, an indication that Abu-Zubayda had already called his interrogators' bluff.
The Atlantic made my job a little easier:
The Senate Judiciary Committee hears testimony from former lead FBI counterterrorism agent Ali Soufan. Soufan calls "enhanced interrogation techniques" "ineffective, slow, unreliable" and therefore harmful, "aside from the important considerations that they are un-American and harmful to our case and reputation." Soufan describes the successful non-coercive interrogation of Al Qaeda terrorist Abu Jandal, who "identified many terrorists who we later successfully apprehended." Soufan describes an interrogation method he calls the "Informed Interrogation Approach," which seeks to capitalize on the natural fear that a detainee feels as a result of his custody by adopting a posture of openness and respect.
Soufan presents an interesting challenge to the Ticking Time Bomb Scenario. Noting that it took 83 waterboardings to force Khalid Shake Mohammed to cough up information, he describes that technique as "slow" and therefore unreliable when information needs to be obtained quickly. Soufan also provides an unclassified chronology of the joint FBI-CIA efforts to question Abu Zubaydah. He says that his early efforts to coax information out of the Al Qaeda operate were successful, and CIA director George Tenet prepared a congratulatory telegram. As soon as Tenet learned that FBI agents -- not his CIA team -- had taken the lead role in the interrogation, he withdrew the congratulations and sent a team from the CIA's counterterrorism center to the interrogation site. That team was assisted by a contractor who "instructed" the new CIA operatives in tougher interrogation techniques. According to Soufan, the new team began to use the EITs. Zubaydah stopped cooperating. Soon, the FBI was brought back in. Zubaydah opened up like a book.
The attacks will start to flow in against Soufan, as you'll see in the above video. Joe Watkins says that while he had success, he's also a "disgruntled employee."
Shuster:...flatly contradicts the allegations that many conservatives and Vice President Cheney have made, that waterboarding produced significant information. Your reaction?
Watkins: Ali Soufan is certainly somebody who had experience and had some success with using his own interrogation methods, but you have to realize that he's a disgruntled former employee of the FBI. He did not agree with waterboarding and other means of...
Shuster: But that does not change the accuracy of his statements. He's testifying under oath that the information that we got from Abu-Zubayda came from him and not from waterboarding. Isn't that significant?
Watkins: It's significant for him...
Our pal James Boyce comes on and refutes Watkins' hollow rationalizations.
http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/fbi-interrogater-ali-soufan-testified-t
What a weakling.
I guess when Presidents can't set the precedent for moral, adult behaviour, the population at large need not follow either.
No Photo's??? I wonder why?
Obama seeks to block release of abuse photos
By JENNIFER LOVEN – 34 minutes ago
WASHINGTON (AP) — President Barack Obama declared Monday he would try to block the court-ordered release of photos showing U.S. troops abusing prisoners, abruptly reversing his position out of concern the pictures would "further inflame anti-American opinion" and endanger U.S. forces in Iraq and Afghanistan. The White House had said last month it would not oppose an appeals court ruling that set a May 28 deadline for releasing dozens of photos from military investigations of alleged misconduct.
But American commanders in the war zones have expressed deep concern about fresh damage the photos might do, especially as the U.S. tries to wind down the Iraq war and step up operations against the Taliban and al-Qaida in Afghanistan.
When photos emerged in 2004 from the infamous U.S.-run Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq, showing grinning American soldiers posing with detainees — some of the prisoners naked, some being held on leashes — the pictures caused a huge anti-American backlash around the globe, particularly in the Muslim world.
Obama, explaining his change of heart on releasing the other photos, said they had already served their purpose in investigations of "a small number of individuals." Those cases were all concluded by 2004, and the president said "the individuals who were involved have been identified, and appropriate actions have been taken."
Your linked post reminded me of Roger Waters' "Perfect Sense"
____________________________________________________________________
Can't you see
It all makes perfect sense
Expressed in dollars and cents
Pounds shillings and pence
Can't you see
It all makes perfect sense
Little black soul departs in perfect focus
Prime time fodder for the News at Nine
Darling is the child warm in the bed tonight
Hi everybody I'm Marv Albert
And welcome to our telecast
Coming to you live from Memorial Stadium
It's a beautiful day
And today we except a sensational matchup
Bur first our global anthem
Can't you see
It all makes perfect sense
Expressed in dollars and cents
Pounds shillings and pence
Can't you see
It all makes perfect sense
And here come the players
As I speak to you now the captain
Has he cross hairs zeroed on the oil rig
It looks to me like he's going to attack
By the way did you know that a submarine
Captain earns 200,000 dollars a year
Oh that's less tax Marv less tax
Uh thank you Emery you're welcome
Now back to the game he fires one yes
There goes two both fish are running
The rig is going into a prevent defense
Will they make it I don't think so
Can't you see
It all makes perfect sense
Expressed in dollars and cents
Pounds shillings and pence
Can't you see
It all makes perfect sense
Wall, to get back on track here (and avoid getting banned again) I'm going to concentrate on the "fun" part of your post.
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=37795923
LOL......I'll be the last one to say you shouldn't have fun.
We'll dance later. LOL!
LOL......I'll be the last one to say you shouldn't have fun.
COME ON EVERYBODY
Hey, I don't all-the-time mind........
We are the experts at public relations.
"Keep you doped with religion, sex and tv".......John Lennon
Some of us aren't elitists, and I love American Idol.
My favorite better make it to the final tonight.
Tracks of My Tears with Adam Lambert.....
http://www.rickey.org/?p=13314
Mad World......
http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XODMyNDk3MDQ=.html
Exactly...........
"A comparison of two video reports, on the other hand, is cumbersome. Forced to choose between conflicting stories on television, the viewer falls back on hunches, or on what he believed before he started watching."
Susan Jacoby, February 17, 2008
......and unfortunately.
OK, I'll use the word "whining" instead; I never saw your tears if there were any.
That is a battle that I would root for both sides to lose!
Yes with those rumblings coming out of Washington about monopolies, I would suspect they may go after Walmart for the Unions.
"to be crying about people attacking Bush "
Nobody was crying about anything, just the facts.
The truth finally comes out.
It became painfully obvious during the development of the upcoming Barbara Wawa's prime-time in-depth interview with Past President Bush, that the President had no idea that the controversial interrogation technique of "waterboarding", which he has been strongly advocating, was in reality a bad thing.
During questioning by Ms Wawa, President Bush declared that it was his impression that waterboarding was just an wet version of skateboarding.
"I was told, by Dick Cheney of course he tells me everything, that waterboarding was were you sit on this board see, n get toweded round the lake behind this big ol' speed boat! I was really looking forward to doing that with Laura this summer at the lake with Daddy and Mommy!" The President stated, his small lips quivering in disappointment.
Ms. Wawa will air these revelations during her May 30th special later this month. "I am weally wooking foeward to pwesenting this in-depth discussion with Pwesident Bush as we will not have him to push us awound much longer, and I think that the Amewican People should get a chance to see the weal him befowa he weaves office." Ms Wawa stated from her home in Dogpatch AR this weekend.
This will be one of the last specials this year for Ms. Wawa who will be going in for major reconstructive surgery at The Joan Rivers Memorial Hospital in May to remove her head from her backside.
LOL.......maybe it's the Flouride in the water.
The Dumbing Of America
Call Me a Snob, but Really, We're a Nation of Dunces
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/15/AR2008021502901.html
I grew up in the 60's. We protested everything. We've become satisfied with nothing more than beer, pretzels and pageants.......and we think that the Indians got snookered for selling Manhattan for beads, lol.
Isn't the term WOT kinda "Batmanish" - "Battle between Good and Evil!!!" You give Americans an enemy and they'll hate right there with you, but give them an ideology argument - and they'll give you a glazed over stare and go bowling!
We don't even have to leave our shores. Have you watched any of the PBS, "We shall remain" series?
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/weshallremain/
Kings of "slide of hand" as well. Keep us occupied with gorgeous beauty pageant bims and their opinion of gay marriage, all the while rewriting our finance and bankruptcy laws to suit their chosen cash cow! Bush's case - big business and the war machine, Obama's case - Unions. Both can and will ultimately bankrupt America!
We are the experts at public relations.
"Keep you doped with religion, sex and tv".......John Lennon
"Needless" depends on your point of view. The WOT is our version of "Oceana".....from Orwell's "1984". It's the propaganda side of "the plan" that the US has been following for decades......as outlined in the "Grand Chessboard".
________________________________________________________________________
The Grand Chessboard
American Primacy And It's Geostrategic Imperatives
Key Quotes From Zbigniew Brzezinksi's Seminal 1998 Book
"Ever since the continents started interacting politically, some five hundred years ago, Eurasia has been the center of world power."- (p. xiii)
"It is imperative that no Eurasian challenger emerges capable of dominating Eurasia and thus of also challenging America. The formulation of a comprehensive and integrated Eurasian geostrategy is therefore the purpose of this book.” (p. xiv)
"How America 'manages' Eurasia is critical. A power that dominates Eurasia would control two of the world's three most advanced and economically productive regions. A mere glance at the map also suggests that control over Eurasia would almost automatically entail Africa's subordination, rendering the Western Hemisphere and Oceania geopolitically peripheral to the world's central continent. About 75 per cent of the world's people live in Eurasia, and most of the world's physical wealth is there as well, both in its enterprises and underneath its soil. Eurasia accounts for about three-fourths of the world's known energy resources." (p.31)
“Never before has a populist democracy attained international supremacy. But the pursuit of power is not a goal that commands popular passion, except in conditions of a sudden threat or challenge to the public's sense of domestic well-being. The economic self-denial (that is, defense spending) and the human sacrifice (casualties, even among professional soldiers) required in the effort are uncongenial to democratic instincts. Democracy is inimical to imperial mobilization." (p.35)
“The momentum of Asia's economic development is already generating massive pressures for the exploration and exploitation of new sources of energy and the Central Asian region and the Caspian Sea basin are known to contain reserves of natural gas and oil that dwarf those of Kuwait, the Gulf of Mexico, or the North Sea." (p.125)
"In the long run, global politics are bound to become increasingly uncongenial to the concentration of hegemonic power in the hands of a single state. Hence, America is not only the first, as well as the only, truly global superpower, but it is also likely to be the very last." (p.209)
"Moreover, as America becomes an increasingly multi-cultural society, it may find it more difficult to fashion a consensus on foreign policy issues, except in the circumstance of a truly massive and widely perceived direct external threat." (p. 211)
Good Morning, Wall. Just taking a guess here, but I think that the number of people who are clueless about this- in the US- probably hovers around 85%. On another note, penny_foolish is right on spot, except that the number "thousands" is an underestimate.
Morning Woof...........the current situation not withstanding, for those who don't know, this query provides an education.
http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en-us&q=dictators+us+supported&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
================
penny_foolish's post that I referred to...
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=37774528
Morning Woof...........the current situation not withstanding, for those who don't know, this query provides an education.
http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en-us&q=dictators+us+supported&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
I'm glad that you brought it up. half wink. I thought the exact same thing when I read poorgradstudent's post.
You can't seriously believe that.
I think you are right, we are much more like them than people realize. We unlawfully invaded a sovereign nation and killed THOUSANDS needlessly, we tortured prisoners after CREATING the documents to ban such activities, we lied and used propaganda to cover up the facts in the deaths of our own troops - all in a war against an ideology that cannot be defeated.
You can't seriously believe that.
extelecom, I was only pointing out that it seems somewhat hypocritical to be crying about people attacking Bush when he first entered office when you did the exact same thing to Obama....and still are.
Jeepers, Dew. You know me. Sure, I wanted a prize but I still prepared for the quiz. I have a few additions to yours.
Anheuser-Busch Bought by InBev NV
Cinergy Corp Bought by Duke Energy Corp.
Dana Corp. Filed for bankruptcy
Delphi Corp pink sheet
Engelhard Corp Bought by BASF
Georgia Pacific Bought by Koch Industries
Kerr-McGee Corp. Bought by Anadarko Petroleum Corp
Lyondell Chemical Co. Merged with Basell
Phelps Dodge Corp Bought by Freeport-McMoRan
Premcor Inc Bought by Valero Energy
Reliant Energy Inc. Bought by NRG Energy
Smurfit-Stone Container Corp. pink sheet
Visteon Corp. pink sheet
-------------
Now this is real cute. The Shaw Group Inc. is one of the big polluters in the top 100. Cinergy Corp, another polluter in the top 100 was bought by Duke Energy Corp.
News Item:
http://ir.shawgrp.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=61066&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1282717&highlight=
Obama and my views on the admin. having nothing to do with the subject at hand.
About time.
House No. 2: Explore Pelosi interrogation briefing
By LARRY MARGASAK – 13 hours ago
WASHINGTON (AP) — The House majority leader reluctantly agreed Tuesday that congressional hearings should investigate Speaker Nancy Pelosi's assertion that she wasn't informed, more than six years ago, that harsh interrogation methods were used on an al-Qaida leader.
Rep. Steny Hoyer, D-Md., called Republican challenges to Pelosi's assertion a diversion from the real question of whether the Bush administration tortured terrorist suspects. Nonetheless, he acknowledged the controversy should be resolved.
Democrats will hold a series of hearings on Justice Department memos released last month that justified rough tactics against detainees, including waterboarding — simulated drowning — and sleep deprivation.
While Democrats want the hearings to focus on what they call torture, Republicans have tried to turn the issue to their advantage by complaining that Pelosi and other Democrats knew of the tactics but didn't protest. Pelosi was briefed in 2002 while on the House Intelligence Committee.
Hoyer, asked at a news conference whether Democrats were inviting political problems for themselves by holding hearings, said, "I think the facts need to get out.
"I think the Republicans are simply trying to distract the American public with who knew what when. My response to that is, look, the issue is not what was said or what was known; the question and focus ought to be on what was done."
But he added that the controversy over "what was said and when it was said, who said it ... is probably what ought to be on the record as well."
Hoyer also was asked whether he believes Pelosi's support has been undermined among Democrats.
"No, I don't," he said.
A Senate Judiciary subcommittee holds the first hearing on the interrogation policy on Wednesday, but has scheduled testimony unrelated to the Pelosi matter.
A CIA document made public last week shows that Pelosi received a briefing in September 2002 on the tactics used on Abu Zubaydah, an al-Qaida leader and one of three prisoners subjected to waterboarding. Pelosi said she was told the agency was discussing its legal right to use the tactic in the future.
"We were not — I repeat — were not told that waterboarding or any of these other enhanced interrogation methods were used," said Pelosi, D-Calif.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jH6pV2iQrgquerGyDffV8LVmaJKwD984UT0O0
I wouldn't expect too much from this.
That's all well and good, but we need to take each crime on it's own individually.
May 13 (Bloomberg) -- Chrysler LLC’s bankruptcy might take as long as two years, not the two months President Barack Obama suggested as a target, an administration official said.
The 60 days projected by the President at an April 30 press conference announcing the automaker’s bankruptcy only applies to a sale of Chrysler’s best assets to a new entity, said the official, who can’t be identified because the matter is confidential. Afterward, creditors would fight over unwanted factories and other assets to recover money, lawyers said.
As a streamlined Chrysler is launched, the remaining entity will be saddled with debt and other liabilities, such as product-defect and asbestos-damage claims. Some claimants may be disappointed as creditors compete to squeeze payments out of the sale of discarded factories, such as the Detroit plant that makes the low-volume Dodge Viper sports car.
“The unsold assets and liabilities may take years to sort out due to the complexities of resolving thousands of commercial, tort, future asbestos, dealership and employee claims,” said Dewey & LeBoeuf LLP partner Martin Bienenstock, who has advised General Motors Corp. and Chrysler Financial on restructuring.
They are playing you guys as fools......lololol
U.S. Eyes Bank Pay Overhaul
Administration in Early Talks on Ways to Curb Compensation Across Finance
By DEBORAH SOLOMON and DAMIAN PALETTA
WASHINGTON -- The Obama administration has begun serious talks about how it can change compensation practices across the financial-services industry, including at companies that did not receive federal bailout money, according to people familiar with the matter.
The initiative, which is in its early stages, is part of an ambitious and likely controversial effort to broadly address the way financial companies pay employees and executives, including an attempt to more closely align pay with long-term performance.
Administration and regulatory officials are looking at various options, including using the Federal Reserve's supervisory powers, the power of the Securities and Exchange Commission and moral suasion. Officials are also looking at what could be done legislatively.
Among ideas being discussed are Fed rules that would curb banks' ability to pay employees in a way that would threaten the "safety and soundness" of the bank -- such as paying loan officers for the volume of business they do, not the quality. The administration is also discussing issuing "best practices" to guide firms in structuring pay.
At the same time, House Financial Services Committee Chairman Barney Frank (D., Mass.) is working on legislation that could strengthen the government's ability both to monitor compensation and to curb incentives that threaten a company's viability or pose a systemic risk to the economy.
It is unclear how such a bill would fit with what the Fed and others are already considering. But any legislation passed would make it harder for policy makers to dial back limits once the financial crisis subsides.
Any new compensation rules would likely be rolled out alongside a broader revamp of financial-markets regulation that the Treasury is pushing. The compensation effort is the latest example of the government's increasing focus on aspects of the financial sector that once were untouched.
Regulators have long had the power to sanction a bank for excessive pay structures, but have rarely used it. The Office of the Comptroller of the Currency last year quietly pressed an unidentified large bank to make changes "pertaining to compensation incentives for bank personnel responsible for assigning risk ratings," a spokesman said. Since 2007, it has privately directed 15 banks to change their executive compensation practices.
Government officials said their effort, which is just beginning, isn't aimed at setting pay or establishing detailed rules. "This is not going to be about capping compensation or micro-management," said an administration official. "It will be about understanding what is the best way to align compensation with sound risk management and long-term value creation."
Despite the banking industry's weakened state, it would likely try to push back against curbs on how financial firms can compensate people. Bank executives have complained to federal officials that strict rules could prompt some of their best employees to move to parts of the financial industry that aren't regulated, such as hedge funds, private-equity firms and foreign banks. They've also argued that paying substantial bonuses is integral to how the industry works.
"Our companies have already enhanced, strengthened and expanded the number of compensation programs that are tied to long-term incentives," said Scott Talbott, a senior vice president at the Financial Services Roundtable, a trade group.
Edward Yingling, chief executive of the American Bankers Association, said banks might be able to accept new rules "as long as they are general in nature and could be enforced on a case-by-case basis. What would never work is detailed regulation of compensation."
President Barack Obama and Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner have both blamed the way banks structured compensation plans for contributing to the financial mess. In February, Mr. Obama said executive pay helped lead to a "reckless culture and a quarter-by-quarter mentality that in turn helped to wreak havoc in our financial system."
Mr. Geithner recently instructed his staff to begin discussions with the Fed, the SEC and others about ways to address compensation practices.
During a recent congressional hearing, Chairman Ben Bernanke said the Fed was working on rules that will "ask or tell banks to structure their compensation, not just at the very top level but down much further, in a way that is consistent with safety and soundness -- which means that payments, bonuses and so on should be tied to performance and should not induce excessive risk."
In an indication of how broad the effort may become, Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. Chairman Sheila Bair said regulators need to examine compensation practices in the mortgage industry, suggesting new limits could stretch beyond banks.
"We need to make sure that incentives are aligned among all parties by making compensation contingent on the long-run performance of the underlying loans," Ms. Bair said on Tuesday.
The discussions follow a narrower effort by the administration to clip pay at firms that get federal aid. Earlier this year, it issued guidelines limiting salaries for top executives at firms that received funds under the Troubled Asset Relief Program.
Congress chimed in with even tougher rules curbing bonuses for top earners at the same firms, among other things. One rule bars firms receiving federal funds from paying top earners bonuses that equal more than a third of their total compensation.
The administration is still wrestling with how to marry those two efforts, which in combination are more punitive than officials intended. The Treasury is expected to issue new rules sometime in the next few weeks.
Thanks, jbog. I was asking about #1-50 only. There are probably a few more among the names ranked #51-100, including the one you mentioned. Regards, Dew
Dew......
Smurfit-Stone Container should be added to the bankruptcy list.
This is the quiz answer, FWIW. The following Top-50 Polluters from your 2002 list have been acquired or filed for bankruptcy:
Acquired
Anheuser-Busch (AmBev)
Cinergy (Duke Energy)
Engelhard (BASF)
Georgia Pacific (Koch Industries)
Kerr-McGee (Anadarko)
Phelps-Dodge (Freeport-McMoRan)
Premcor (Valero Energy)
Bankruptcy
Delphi
>Why would the Bush administration go through the whole exercise of defining and then using enhanced interogation in the first place.<
Because they had a pre-defined notion of what they "felt" they needed to do. This played out in Iraq, and it's playing out again in their torture program.
Consider these parallels:
For Iraq:
- they sent a bureaucrat (Powell) out in front of the UN to show "evidence" that was clearly shoddy at the time (a picture of a broken down trailer in the desert / tips from Curveball). This evidence was being refuted and/or questioned by the actual agency officials.
- ignored precedent and available info (how many times did Blix et al enter Iraq to find nothing?)
- but wanted to cover their butts by claiming that everyone at the UN / Congress saw the available info (regardless of its reliability).
For torture:
- they're sending out a bureaucrat (Cheney) to present "evidence" that it works. He's not yet presented anything other than "trust me" and nobody who actually works in the trenches has concurred with him.
- ignored precedent and available info. Countries like Israel with sophisticated intel ops don't use it because they state confidence methods are the way to go. Those responsible for interrogation programs administered by the US present the same opinion. Also note the claims of people who *were* tortured like McCain who say that it doesn't work, unless you're confused about who plays on the Green Bay offensive line. They also ignored multiple legal and moral precedents that speak against torture (see prosecutions by US in the past, Reagan's passionate anti-torture position, etc...)
- wanted to cover their butts by squeezing out legal rationales from apparatchiks. Bybee and Yoo's legal work is being criticized and disavowed by legal agencies because it not only looks like it was written in bad faith (the legal pros that I read concede that can't really be proven), but the legal opinions themselves ignore precedents in law that demonstrates the work to be poorly done. Ask yourself this: if torture was legal, why did they need a de novo opinion from two lawyers???
This is just symptomatic of a group of individuals with little regard or respect for opinions outside their own. Cheney and company (I put Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz into this group but am unconvinced about Bush) wanted to go into Iraq, and they made it happen. As a group, they generally showed contempt for history, and mocked the process and preparation required for large undertakings (see Rumsfeld's comments regarding army preparedness / Iraq and President Bush's comments regarding Katrina operations).
>They also must have known that they were on the fringe yet they felt they needed to use the enhanced methods. <
That's the key word. They "felt" but did not think. They failed to show respect for the history that brought this nation to its position of prominence.
I don't know what the frig you're rambling about, but there were only 3 men who we used enhanced interogation on and they all lived.
Waterboarding is not the only form of abuse that's considered torture.
p.s. a doctor was present at all times.
Whooop-deee-dooo. How 'bout you let someone burn cigarette holes into your body while a doctor watches? I'm sure the burns will be painless. Right?
Because they got caught.
Woofer
In fact, one of the men who was tortured, managed to stay alive
I don't know what the frig you're rambling about, but there were only 3 men who we used enhanced interogation on and they all lived.
p.s. a doctor was present at all times.
poorgrad,
Let me ask you one question, then we can drop the whole subject
Why would the Bush administration go through the whole exercise of defining and then using enhanced interogation in the first place. Kripe, from what I hear they could have just made a pot of coffee and asked a couple of questions. What was the purpose of going through the whole exercise of talking to congress, lawyers etc.
They also must have known that they were on the fringe yet they felt they needed to use the enhanced methods.
Why?
Dew, I thought the exact same thing, although it might only be due to bad karma. I don't believe in 'karma' but since I'm not sure why they folded, I didn't want to say.
I think it's notable that 16% of these companies are gone seven years later (your list was published in 2002). Perhaps it's evidence that polluting doesn't pay :- )
Are you going to offer a prize? Yes or No? If you are, it better be a good one....and not Bedida.
I think it's notable that 16% of these companies are gone seven years later (your list was published in 2002). Perhaps it's evidence that polluting doesn't pay :- )
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