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LG you feeling a 1 for 1 for escrows. ????
I am a legacy holder of wamu…..I for one do not care about the pity you spread….i for one bought many wamu shares even after the Wamu P’s drop to 10.00 and sold in high 60.00’s….and bought back end with P’s and U’s. Then I sold again after WMIH at 1.50 and doubled my shares at .49. And sold again at 2.50 and bought back in at 1.00…..sold it all at 15.00….then bought back in at 5.00……and held and kept buying as it continues to grow…I for one did not sell when it 50.00 and continue to see coop rising….
You are correct. But I say it for myself too. I had a large amount of WAMU before the FDIC Midnight Raid, but fortunately I was able to buy more cheap shares.
But I have only made money as COOP has increased from $40 to $78. That is where I have done well.
It’s Because LIBOR Hasn’t Settled Yet.
XOME can’t be monetize when the valuation can’t be determined due to the interest rates manipulation by the big banks.
Ron
What are the outcomes…..a great outcome would be a distribution would you not agree….
Great opinion….now there just needs to be a distribution to make it true…do we wait another 15 years.
TO ME, SEEMS VERY LIKELY TO HAPPEN ALMOST ANY DAY - RECENT COOP FILING – THE PUZZLE NOW FIGURED OUT – JUST MAYBE
https://archive.fast-edgar.com/20240318/AS2E422CZ22EI2Z2222P2CEZA7GSZZ62B262/
JUST maybe with the help of BBANBOB plus some others who agreed with us like Cura Asada, Dmdmd1 and others that the COOP merger with NSM was not totally completed and POSSIBLY there is a positive finale. At least until they issue the owners of the former WaMu Estate who signed timely releases by 3/2012 shares.
These same investors just mentioned also agree that COOP does NOT own XOME entirely, as for years they have talked about monetizing XOME worth roughly one to two billion. Strange, after multiple years they cannot monetize XOME and we have said this is because COOP does not own XOME entirely until they finish issuing the shares. More than likely this ownership of XOME is tied up in a DST owned (75/25) by those investors who signed timely releases.
***NOW LET US LOOK AT SOME NUMBERS***
• Post COOP 12-1 RS around Oct/2018, the outstanding COOP shares became roughly 100M
• The recent filing above shows around 64M COOP outstanding shares after a multitude of COOP buy-backs
• The difference is now 36M shares of COOP which MAY BE owned by timely signed investors
• If these 36M shares (36M + 64M) are given back to timely signed investors, then this takes the outstanding COOP shares back to around 100M but lowers the COOP price to roughly $50.00 a share based on current prices of around $72.00
• Now we have heard that XOME should be worth around 2B or so, NOW figure in 2B ($20.00 a share) on those 100M outstanding shares and WOAH back to $70.00 plus a share
• NOW figure the 75/25 ownership on the 36M shares and guess what you have roughly 27M shares for the Preferred and 9M shares for the Common
• The other thought is there are ten million authorized and shelf-ready preferred shares that can be issued on a minutes notice that has been part of the plan since the (ED) Effective Date of 3/19/2012 so ALL 36 M common shares could go the the investors who released common share and the preferred investors receive 1-1 preferred which explains why the UWs want into class 19 so bad – yes, this is their expertise and they have always known the specific class the big money was to be recovered from…CLASS 19
• IF COOP issues 36M common shares at $71.00 per share that is 2.5B so if they give this to common shareowners that is roughly 25% of a POSIT of ten billion and they back preferred with 7.5B funding for a total of ten billion POSIT. NOW if COOP gets 2.5% of the 635B that Congress spoke about around year 2010/11 that means COOP gets 15.87B so with the ten billion funding of preferred and commons 36M shares at $71.00 it leaves roughly 5.6B for their own coffers driving the COOP common much higher
• Hopefully, these shares are coming soon to a timely-signed-released account near YOU
...
This is now a sticky post for easy access. Thanks Wwhatthe.
It is a known logical fallacy to predict the future solely based on the past. Our entire experience is based on the events of new outcomes.
It's a good sign for human beings when we can remember that which makes us great....
Maybe you're right, I don't know, but I've always found Whatthe to sound quite credible. He and one or two others is the reason I have 5% hope of escrow returns vs 0%.
Yes Easter is cool...
Absolutely unbelievable ye all are still peddling the eternally pending "Escrows" fantasy.
Wouldve thought everyone had awoken from that unrealistic dream already but then again..........
To silly to be taken seriously in 2024 and even worse beyond.
Thank you, Spider-man,
Happy Easter to you too
Stay safe… Stay healthy
Good luck to you
And have a great day
Wwhatthe
Large Green
Thank you for that post.
We differ on some points, but we both agree on a large recovery coming...
I'm sure nobody cares about how it gets here, as long as it gets here.
I've always agreed with your thoughts on the Depository Trust Company.
Because It's in the Disclosure statement.
Good luck to you
Wwhatthe
Payment for the bank, Libor, WMI assets, and more.
We are in for quite a year. I wouldnt take out a loan yet, but start conceptualizing what you will do with newfound wealth. Its Easter. So please be sure to help others and animals in your wealth plan. Together we can do great good.
Awesome Post! Thanks for your Effort & Sharing with us! I Hope whatever you have postulated is True/will come True and this is how The WaMu/WMI BK was CLOSED and all the Necessary Closing Activities were transacted By Law without any Corruption and STEALING of Escrow-Holders' assets by the Hedge Funds-Gang of Four &JPM Goon Lawyers for JPM.
This Gives me slight confidence that we may see some "F&R Promised"...Hope Springs Eternal. TIA & GLTU & GLTA!!!
wwhatthe, quite a post! Thanks!
This post says it all on Easter He has Risen Indeed. Jesus is with us.
Thanks to "wwhatthe and Newflow for your work
Re: CAL622003 post# 724944
Saturday, March 30, 2024 5:00:47 PM
Post# of 725243 Go
CAL622003
You asked a good question.
I'm only an investor but, for Sits and giggles...
I would like to try to answer your question...
How on earth would anyone ever be paid?
All IMHO...
But first, Keep in mind,
The company’s liquidating trust pays off the creditors and distributes the new company shares.
The WMI liquidating trust had 200,000,000 new shares to distribute...
And only $7.3 Billion Dollars in cash...
This is because the FDIC seized $307 Billion in assets.
When the WMI liquidating trust closed... this indicated that all the creditors were paid,
and all the new company shares were distributed.
To illustrate my point...
This is a statement from judge MARY F. WALRATH
before the UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES COMMITTEE,
It's after the bankruptcy,
She says…
Quote,
In excess of $7 billion was distributed to
creditors and shareholders. Virtually all creditors received
100% of their claims with post-petition interest and shareholders
received stock and warrants in a subsidiary that was capitalized
with $150 million in new money… End Quote
This excerpt shows us the creditors received about $7 billion Dollars and shareholders received new company stock.
The quote says,
“was distributed to creditors and shareholders”
But we're interested in,
How or in which way was that distributed?
So,
Let's start here,
This is from pdf page# 355/755 of the,
DISCLOSURE STATEMENT
It is about our tracking markers or contra-CUSIP positions.
It’s also about our escrow positions and the Depository Trust Company... (DTC)
Quote…
…The Trustees may conclusively rely upon the distribution instructions received from the debtors or their agents with respect to contra-CUSIP positions and escrow positions set up by the Debtors or their agents with the Depository Trust Company, and the Trustees shall close and terminate the original CUSIPS after making initial distributions of Creditor Cash and shall have no further distribution obligations thereafter…
End quote
Here where it says,
“may conclusively rely upon the Distribution instructions received from the debtors or their agents with respect to contra-CUSIP positions and escrow positions set up by the Debtors or their agents with the Depository Trust Company”
They are talking about our escrow position which according to the above excerpt, was set up by the Debtor (the company).
Every class has an escrow position... Every class has a Trustee.
The company had your information on record,
and because of the bankruptcy... it was used to set up your escrow position with the Depository Trust Company.
If you own your shares by street name... which means your shares are registered in your brokers name on the company's books... Which most do.
So, if you purchased your shares through a brokerage firm, they have your W9 tax information and would know how many shares you had.
Or,
If your shares are registered in your name on the company's books.
They know how many shares you had, but you may have had to provide a W9 tax form.
Either way, the company and TDC would have your name and information... including the use of your W9 tax information from your broker.
Our escrow positions... is because...
When you purchased shares in WMI, you created an equity position in WMI (the company).
When WMI filed for bankruptcy your equity position... also became an escrow position.
It's,
The Debtors (the company) or their agents who set up our escrow positions with the Depository Trust Company.
IMO... Not if, but when,
Anything comes back the Depository Trust Company has all the information they would need to make a distribution.
It would be the same as when it was done for the creditor’s cash, and our new company shares.
The contra-CUSIP number is assigned by DTC for use in reorganization activities, such as distributing company shares or cash.
For example, from the plan,
Some elected to receive shares...
So, some common and preferred shareholders received new company shares and were owed shares from the Disputed Equity Escrow Account.
So,
The Depository Trust Company knows if you are allowed to have shares or not...
That's because of the distribution instructions it received from the debtors (the company).
A contra-CUSIP number was used to distribute the 200,000,000 new shares.
Likewise,
The creditors were owed $7.3 Billion Dollars in cash.
A contra-CUSIP number was used to distribute the cash.
All from the Depository Trust Company with instructions from the debtors (The company).
The contra-CUSIP position is temporary... once the shares and the cash are distributed the numbers are no longer needed and they are removed.
Again,
The company’s liquidating trust pays off the creditors and distributes the new company shares.
There were 200,000,000 shares...
And only $7.3 Billion Dollars in cash...
When the WMI liquidating trust closed... this indicated that all the creditors were paid,
and all the new company shares were distributed.
Now,
Our focus should be on the FDIC’s $307 Billion in assets...
Because if the creditors are paid, then everything the FDIC has is equity and it belongs to the shareholders.
To illustrate this point.
This is from one of the SETTLEMENT AND RELEASE AGREEMENT’s
keep in mind,
WaMu is the Bank... and the Bank is owned by the WMI shareholders.
Quote,
FDIC-R succeeded to all rights, titles, powers and privileges of WaMu, including those with respect to its assets. Among the assets to which FDIC-R succeeded were all of WaMu's claims, demands and causes of action against mortgage brokers that originated mortgage loans for WaMu.
End quote.
The FDIC is a Conservatorship and Receivership...
As Conservatorship the FDIC protects the individuals and their estate.
As Receivership the FDIC preserves the value of the property.
The Estate and property are owned by the WMI shareholders.
One more about the FDIC...
This is from one of the court documents...
Quote,
“In its role as receiver for a failed depository institution, the [FDIC-R] has a statutory obligation generally to maximize the return on the sale or disposition of the receivership estate’s assets. The receiver distributes any funds realized from its liquidation efforts to the failed institution’s creditors and shareholders in accordance with the FDIC’s priority scheme.”
end quote.
So, the FDIC-R, sells the WMB’s assets and distributes the funds in accordance with the FDIC’s priority scheme…
Which is also, the distribution procedure and priority in the Plan on page 141 of the D/S…
And would also use the Depository Trust Company.
Keep in mind the creditors have already been paid by the WMI liquidating trust.
Also,
The FDIC is not a for-profit organization It's independent.
Their primary mission is to maintain stability and public confidence in the banking system,
The FDIC doesn't have shareholders or owners who receive profits... So, they do not generate profits. The FDIC is funded by premiums paid by insured banks, not by selling goods or services.
I know this post is getting long...
But,
Let's add this statement from JPMorgan Chase.
Because they purchased these assets from the FDIC-R...
Here in a statement Dated, Jan 13, 2010
JPMorgan Chase, Testimony before the Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission.
JPMC states…
With the acquisition, we purchased approximately $240 billion of mortgage and mortgage related assets… with $160 billion in deposits…. and $38 billion in equity… We immediately wrote down most of the bad or impaired assets (approximately $31 billion) …. and established proper reserves for the remaining assets, ….as well as for severance and close-down costs.
So,
To answer your question...
How on earth would anyone ever be paid?
Our escrow positions were set up by the Debtors or their agents with the Depository Trust Company,
The Depository Trust Company received Distribution instructions from the company... including your W9 tax information it had from your broker... we don't have to do anything but stay updated with our brokerage firm.
And,
We don't get paid for our escrow shares/markers...
We get paid for our Escrow position.
Sorry for the long post...
All IMHO...
Good luck to you.
You may also be interested in my post #720961
"We don't get paid for our escrow shares/markers... We get paid for our Escrow position"
Thank you for reading my post.
Stay safe… Stay healthy
And of course,
Just my opinion, research, and curiosity…
Wwhatthe
IF IF IFIN any are seriously in that great of need for $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
"""""TO GET YOU ROPED AND TIED IN WITH THEM AND BE YOUR LMAO""" BE YOUR BEST BUDDY"""
One might CONSIDER looking at several """OTHER""" sources from which to obtain a loan, if if IFIN we end up getting anywhere near what has been proposed, there should be ample places to go rather than YOUR BROKER and the broker would be the last place I would go
RAY
"Why they will give us loan? """TO GET YOU ROPED AND TIED IN WITH THEM AND BE YOUR LMAO""" BE YOUR BEST BUDDY["""
Resurrection is cool.
Releases with account numbers and tax forms
Is there something happening now. I only hold P K Us
Yes have a BLESSED DAY
Everyone have a wonderful Easter...
Why…? Is that a new theory…give us loans so they can make money on short term loan interest…..really….
Why they will give us loan? Strange conclusion.
did you read the article I posted about the demise of WAMU?.....do you agree with what the article says?... I am not the subject of discussion, goodie brought up the assertion that the US government was corrupt in taking WAMU.... why do you always corrupt me and my posts as being against your expectations of monetary returns?... the article states factual events that brought WAMU down, not me... I had nothing to do with the demise of WAMU, or Project West... I just read the facts and present them to the board for reference and factual discussion....you seem to disagree with all SEC documentation, stories about the 2008 financial crisis, and want to spin some event that will not happen ....did you read about WMI dissolving WMIIC to get assets to place in the WMIL-T to fund the closure of the chapter 11?....WMIIC would have been where all the assets of WMI were held, yet it was dissolved to zero... so where is your recovery coming from?..... did you also read how equity got their shares from the 147 million dollars infused by the hedgies to include equity and preferred in the chapter 11?..... quit ragging on me , and read and absorb the contents of the documents related to the chapter 11 closing, and not how you want your personal outcome to be.......simply put, Wamu, and WMI ran out of money to pay full, class 18 claims, and equity and preferred classes were impaired from future recovery... discuss these facts, and not ME!!!!!!!.... Lodas
poo...lucky buyer and lucky seller too.just missed accounting 101.
Lo....you work for JPM?.What was PROJECT WEST?.
https://www.pidm.gov.my/pidm2022/media/assets/RSP/4-Purchase-and-Assumption-Washington-Mutual-Bank.pdf
goodie......a must read timeline and circumstances by which WAMU fell into receivership......WAMU was Kerry and the BOD to lose, and they did... JPM just had the opportunity to be the lucky buyer when no one else could.... good reading, and share with your buddies... Lodas
In FAQ they expressed that they may not monetize assets sufficient to distribute to Class 19 and Class 22, but in the closing motion they mentioned they just waited for class 18 distributions to reconcile other claims(probably class 19 and class 22 disputed claims) and monetize assets.
KCC/COURT SHOULD HOLD W-9 INFORMATION IMO.
Ballots were submitted to Nominees (brokerages like TD) and nominees send a master ballot to DTC. DTC process those details and issue stock or other instruments back to nominee in our case WMIH shares and Escrow CUSIPs.
But to receive LTIs from WMILT, LT needed W-9 information and number of shares associated, for that WMILT requested nominees to send those ballot information to KCC as per the FAQ.
Debtors and WMILT knew that it would take a long time, so they collected those details in the name of LTIs. KCC is cancelled as WMI LT agent except few services.The players know what they wanted for the ultimate distribution.IMO.
I dont know what you filed 16 years ago.
Do you recall the weight of the shiny metal blowing out the rear tire of the pickup….2010-2011ish on the G board. lol. Many thank N
Is that the information we filled out 16 years ago?
No problem. "(a) KCC may have not yet received correct W-8 or W-9 tax information on behalf of
the beneficial holder. Brokerage firms have been asked to provide this information on behalf of
their clients. If you believe you have not received an LTI due to insufficient tax information
being provided to KCC, please call or email your brokerage firm and ensure that they have
received confirmation from KCC that your tax information is certified and on file."
KCC must be maintaining those records, brokerage firms such as Schwab maintain such information only for 10 years.
Thank you very much!
Thanks newflow. I've moved twice since then so just a lil concern should we be so fortunate.
There are many theories as of lately…..BTS predicts Libor will pay out….Cactus has his theories of insider information……now we have another…..it all comes down to April of something happening….by May 1, 2024 there should be either something or nothing and new theories as to why maybe 6 more months waiting or EOY 10k will reveal everything…one thing that we do know is coop is the tell and anything below 80 is a steal….
CAL... THIS WAY THE FIND FAQ BY WMILT c. Information to be provided before an LTI is issued
If you were entitled to vote on the Plan and submitted a properly completed Ballot
to Kurtzman Carson Consultants, LLC (“KCC”) in connection therewith, you will not
have to take any further action before your LTI(s) can be issued because a properly
completed Ballot included all requisite information. Otherwise, before an LTI can be
issued to an eligible claimant pursuant to the Plan, such claimant must provide certain
information to the Debtors’ claims agent, KCC, who will then validate the
information and provide it to the Trustee. Such information includes the name and
contact details of the claimant who shall be the beneficial holder of the LTI when
issued and tax certifications such as a W-8, W-9, etc. Additional information
regarding the information that must be provided before an LTI can be issued is
available on KCC’s website at http://www.kccllc.net/. If such information is not
provided, the applicable LTI cannot be issued by the Liquidating Trust.
https://www.kccllc.net/documents/8817600/8817600210115000000000001.pdf
Hoping when they the brokers announce, they will give us loans until payment
JHD It is part of the weekend process to begin the the medium term Bonds non interest notes. 1sr payment June1
Wwhatthe, thank you as always.
You are a voice of reason, fact, and sensibility in this sea of chaos.
Whilst your post may seem complex to some, it is an excellent summary and really quite logical and simple. I have also tried to reassure people that our escrow positions are safe and sound. They just need to keep their accounts up to date, ensure profile accuracy update beneficiaries etc.
If they received that small share allocation way back when that validates their account and is proof that they are on the list.
I believe we are close to seeing money, likely initially from Libor.
Thanks sir, and dont be a stranger.
I feel very optimistic about our chances.
Happy Easter to you and all believers.
Boris
wwhatthe, while you have written several posts before, I can say from everything I know about the WaMu travesty of justice that this SPECIFIC post of yours is EXACTLY SPOT-ON CORRECT. Thank you for sharing,
...
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Mr. Cooper Group Inc. (NASDAQ: COOP) provides quality servicing, origination and transaction-based services related principally to single-family residences throughout the United States with operations under its primary brands: Mr. Cooper® and Xome®. Mr. Cooper is one of the largest home loan servicers in the country focused on delivering a variety of servicing and lending products, services and technologies. Xome provides technology and data enhanced solutions to homebuyers, home sellers, real estate agents and mortgage companies.
Upon completion of the merger between WMIH Corp. and Nationstar Mortgage Holdings Inc. on July 31, 2018, WMIH became the parent company of the Nationstar Mortgage Holdings Inc. family including Mr. Cooper (Nationstar Mortgage LLC, d/b/a Mr. Cooper), Xome and Champion Mortgage (Nationstar Mortgage LLC d/b/a Champion).
As of October 10, 2018, Mr. Cooper Group Inc. is the new name of WMIH Corp. On July 31, 2018, WMIH, now Mr. Cooper Group, became the parent company of the Nationstar Mortgage Holdings Inc. family including Mr. Cooper (Nationstar Mortgage LLC, d/b/a Mr. Cooper) and Xome.
As early as late 2006, WaMu would begin to become a victim of what would eventually become the worst recession in US history since the Great Depression of 1929. WaMu's aggressive business strategy would begin to unfold throughout the end of 2006 and become increasingly disastrous through 2007. As housing rates were at all time highs before the recession began, WaMu would use its considerable leverage and assets to make large amounts of loans in both subprime mortgages and subprime credit cards. The banking division of WaMu at one point before the end of 2007 had nearly 336 stand-alone branch buildings where various types of home loans were processed and approved. WaMu would eventually over leverage themselves due to the high number of Adjustable Rate Mortgages (ARMs). As the US economy slowed down, the number of home loan defaults began to rise in quick succession. This coupled with the falling home prices throughout most of the US meant that even with foreclosures and the properties back in the hands of the company, they were unable to sell them back into the market, or were not able to derive enough revenue from the sale to cover the loan that was made on them. In the mean time, the credit card division was also seeing a surge in the number of late and non payments being made.
By September of 2008, WaMu's stock price had fallen to $2 from its previous highs of around $50 just two years earlier. Amid strong voices from the shareholders, then company CEO Kerry Killinger was dismissed by the company board. In the meantime, the company went looking for a buyer for part of its banking division. WaMu had been unsuccessful in finding an appropriate buy until its seizure by the FDIC. Overnight the companies banking division was bought by JP Morgan Chase in a secret deal brokered by the FDIC for 1.9 billion dollars. Washington Mutual Inc. has reorganized to Washington Mutual Holding Inc. WITH SHAREHOLDERS INTACT
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