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If that was all true, I wonder why he didn't speak out about that plan before now???
Ah so a little bit of the truth starts coming out. Should go with some of the other stuff that what we are being told is not the 'real' reason or truth. When intrests combined with a lota money are involved, anything makes for an excuse.
US 'planned attack on Taleban' The wider objective was to oust the Taleban
By the BBC's George Arney
A former Pakistani diplomat has told the BBC that the US was planning military action against Osama Bin Laden and the Taleban even before last week's attacks.
Niaz Naik, a former Pakistani Foreign Secretary, was told by senior American officials in mid-July that military action against Afghanistan would go ahead by the middle of October.
Mr Naik said US officials told him of the plan at a UN-sponsored international contact group on Afghanistan which took place in Berlin.
Mr Naik told the BBC that at the meeting the US representatives told him that unless Bin Laden was handed over swiftly America would take military action to kill or capture both Bin Laden and the Taleban leader, Mullah Omar.
The wider objective, according to Mr Naik, would be to topple the Taleban regime and install a transitional government of moderate Afghans in its place - possibly under the leadership of the former Afghan King Zahir Shah.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_1550000/1550366.stm
Looks like privacy and rights wont exist in a short while. ofcourse all this only applies ot those who cant afford the means and methods to it undetected anyway.
This week, Treasury Department officials expect to ask Congress for legislation giving the center broader powers to request tax returns from the Internal Revenue Service and to capture and read e-mail traffic, all tied to ongoing investigations of individuals suspected of terrorist activities.
A government official said the legislation, which would include measures to facilitate intelligence gathering and use of military forces, would almost certainly include provisions to legalize special tracking measures involving the IRS and the Internet.
"Discussions are under way," said the official, who asked not to be identified, "and [while] nothing has been introduced so far today, tomorrow is not too soon" to expect the proposed legislation to reach Capitol Hill.
There are also discussions within White House circles about the possibility of issuing an executive order containing provisions for the same four areas of concern, said the official.
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/wnt/WorldNewsTonight/WTC_binladen_money010920.html
"I need more energy to deal with them. We are growing older and less energy. My daughters have full of energy(G)."
Sounds like you and your wife are doing a great job! It does take alot of energy, but soon enough they'll be doing more and more on their own.
Sara : )
Afghanistan: history's crossroads
The US' war on terrorism is not just that - Afghanistan is also a crucial access
to the Central Asian oil reserves, concludes Varghese K George, considering
the country's strategic position and its consequently violent history
New Delhi, September 22
The echo of soldiers marching through the rough terrain of Afghanistan is a sight and sound familiar to the land. From the beginning of the recorded history, virtually no invader has left Afghanistan untouched. These expeditions were never to capture Afghanistan itself - Afghanistan had nothing that attracted invaders to it. It was the gateway for those wanted to plunder the rich Indian subcontinent: this strategic location made the country the theatre of many wars that changed the course of this region's history.
As a historian of Afghanistan writes, "The list of people and conquerors who have touched or influenced Afghan history reads like a roster of nearly every aggressive force that has been set loose in Asia over the past 4,000 years."
Even today, Western countries have strategic and economic interests in controlling Afghanistan. It is the only access to Central Asia, the calculated oil reserves of which will be largely required in the immediate future, given the fact that the West Asian oil wells are fast drying up. The battle that the US will fight on this terrain will not be aimed solely at eliminating "Islamic fundamentalism" but also to ultimately gain access to the oil fields of Central Asia.
Historically, Afghan was a gateway to India. For those who looked with lustful eyes on India's riches, Afghanistan was the entry point for their exploits. Once the British established their empire in the subcontinent, they also wanted control over Afghanistan to prevent the entry of others to the subcontinent. But no invader could, and in many cases did not want to, hold on to the barren mountains of Afghanistan. Scythians, Persians, Greek, Seljuk, Tartar and the Mongols plundered India through the Afghan door. After each wave of fresh invasion subsided, the Afghan territory remained with the Afghans.
At the beginning of the 16th century BC, the first great migration of Aryans swept across the rough terrains of Afghanistan, from their homeland in Central Asia, to the Indian plains. More than 2,400 years ago, Alexander the Great led his army up the valley of the Helmland, crossing the mighty range of the Hindukush into Central Asia. Two years later, he crossed these mountains again to win over Punjab. Mahamud of Ghazni made something like 17 expeditions into India through Afghanistan. Timur the Tartar also walked this way into India, ransacked Delhi and then turned to Central Asia. Babar, a descendant of Timur, overran India and founded the Mughal dynasty - that was in the 16th century BC. Babur's grave is in Kabul.
From this period, Babar's successors were faced with the necessity of maintaining Afghanistan as a buffer state against attacks from the Shahs of Persia to the West, and from the Uzbek rulers of Bukhara to the North. During Mughal times, Kabul and Kandahar were recognised as the keys to India, which they wanted to hold on to. The British, who followed the Mughals as rulers of India, maintained the same policy - to gain and maintain control over the Khyber Pass, a 53-km passage through the Hindukush mountains.
Even the name Hindukush has an Indian connection. Mediaeval traveller Ibn Battuta wrote in A D 1334, "The mountain is called Hindukush, since slave boys and girls who are brought from India die there in large numbers, as a result of the extreme cold." But there is at least one more theory about the origin of the name Hindukush. Soldiers of Alexander the Great termed these mountain ranges Indian Caucasus, and Hindukush is possibly a later corruption of this.
The British fought three wars with the Afghans between 1938 and 1919, all ending in disasters of varying magnitudes. Between 1838 and January 1842, they held on to Kabul. However, intensifying resistance forced them to leave. Assured of a safe passage, the British commander led about 700 Britons - soldiers, wives and children - 3,800 Indian troops, and more than 12,000 camp followers from the city. A trek through the snow- mountains to Peshawar was one to death for them. Only one man - a doctor - survived that journey to tell the tale! Once the British realised that conquering Afghanistan by force was difficult, they tried to set it up as a buffer state by granting extensive military and economic aid to its tribal rulers. In this, they were, to a large extent, successful.
After the end of the colonial period, Afghanistan was the theatre for a proxy war between the world's superpowers. The Soviets invaded Afghanistan in 1979. The United States, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and others supplied and trained the anti-Soviet mujahideen forces. It is interesting to note that then American president Ronald Reagan was using the same idioms as Bush does today. For the US, the fight against the Soviets was one against the "evil empire". Their allies of those days are those they identify as "evil" today - the Taliban, including Osama bin Laden.
The Soviets left in 1989, and the Americans washed their hands off, but the war did not end. Various mujahideen forces began fighting among themselves for control of the country.
However, once the Central Asian oil reserves began to be seen as the possible substitute for the depleting Middle Eastern wells, Western attention in this region intensified again. American and Saudi oil firms wanted assured access to Central Asian reserves of oil and natural gas through Afghanistan. The Saudis and Americans thought Taliban would be the best bet to achieve this objective. They calculated that the Afghan State could be made economically viable from taxes that could come out of oil pipeline projects passing through the country. The state would be merely required to spread oil largesse among the tribes, and thus buy their loyalties, as is the case with all Gulf countries.
The Taliban, however, overturned these plans with its ingenious methods. In 1995, Unocal, a California based oil company, had signed a protocol with the Turkmenistan government to explore the prospects of constructing an oil pipeline to Pakistan through Afghan territory. The company described the Taliban takeover of Kabul in 1996 as "positive". But the Taliban refused to oblige the company, dashing the hopes of US corporates.
The first war of the 21st century will be as much to gain control of this strategic region, as it is to weed out "evil". But history doesn't favour the Americans - Afghan has remained bloody, but they have hardly lost a war. And they have fought to failure two of the biggest powers of their respective times - the British and the Soviets.
Energy futures tumbled Monday amid worries that a dramatic slowdown in the global economy will lessen demand for crude oil and other products.
NOVEMBER CRUDE PRICES fell $4.02 per barrel to $21.95 on the New York Mercantile Exchange, while natural gas prices fell below $2 for the first time since March 1999.
http://www.msnbc.com/news/633166.asp
I woudnt say hogwash, more like grocelly exagerated. The talibans have been flaunting the US and other powers for a while now, even not counting osama and it was only a metter of time before someone found a reason to replace them. It just so happened that the US got the reason first. Afganistan is a very strategically placed important piece of rock.
but another intresting thing is the fiber optic cable connecting the indian subcontinent to singapore is down, guess the 400 mil to fit some US subs with the capability to tap into the cable is not so fail proof afterall.
Interesting article how Arabs deal with their own problems. I am not sure how true it is.
http://www.siliconinvestor.com/stocktalk/msg.gsp?msgid=16402623
She has a green belt in Taekwon-do. It takes 3 years to get it from Kindergarten. Now she is taking soccer class. It is difficult for me and my wife to make all time for Taekwon-do, soccer, piano, and homework and study. That is a problem. I should have daughters older enough like the ages of Ike's sons but not. If my younger one start Kindergarten next year, I need more energy to deal with them. We are growing older and less energy. My daughters have full of energy(G).
I hope Ike to send me a precious secret how to raise children well.
That article is hogwash.
It is ironical, then, that the richest and the most powerful country in the world will now take on the poorest and militarily the most vulnerable country. And the American-Afghan war in the making has nothing to with terrorism.
If there is proof (as is being promised will be disclosed) that the recent terrorists attacks were orchestrated by Osama bin-Laden and he is being harbored by Afganistan, then the reasons we are targeting that particular country first is obvious and justified.
And as for bombing of Kabul, I think the US has gone to great lengths in recent decades to use it's military technology to target military facilities and to avoid civilian casualties (i.e. the Gulf War and Kosovo)... unlike our enemies who deliberately targeted innocents.
Sara
Ike, as you said before, Collin Powell Sec. of State said the same thing, "President Musharaff (of Pakistan) made a courageous decision and he did it with full awareness of the potential domestic consequences." The president made a wise choice for the country under the difficult situation as you said. He, Powell is my man now. He sounds like to be aware of the complication and complexity of the problems we discussed here before. Also, he is acting with reasons not emotions all around us. He is taking time with patience to make a coalation force militarily and financially. Also Bush seemed to listen to his wise advice. If Clinton still around, he might listen to polls and already bomb Afghanistan. I never know.
http://dailynews.att.net/cgi-bin/news?e=pri&dt=010923&cat=politics&st=politicsattackpowe...
Also, I want everybody to join me to send e-mails to the White House to deal with all internatonial secret bank accounts not just for Bin Ladin but all possible terroirsts, drug dealers, corrupt companies, and tax evaders. To freeze banks accounts of Bin Laden and his associates here and in some close allied European countries is not enough.
"If she joins the soccer league in the next season,I think, I will be a full time soccer dad(G)."
Sports is great for kids : ) Over the years mine have been in Karate, Little League, Soccer and Football. Enjoy those years!
"They live like that for 50 years.
As you say, we should do the same thing. I don't think we will get rid of terrorists all at once. It will take a long time and they revenge us. We have to learn how to live. For one thing, we need a nationwide hot line so people can report suspicious activities including domestic militia activities."
It's been hard to imagine what it must be like to live under conditions like that for so long. Unfortunately, we are finding out but will adjust with time. I like your idea for a national hot line.
Sara : )
From reports..Advance units of two United States army divisions are on the Afghan border preparing for strikes against the Taliban regime. Units of the 82nd Airborne and 101st Air Assault Divisions arrived at bases in Pakistan, near the border towns of Quetta and Peshawar, as a huge build- up of ships, aircraft and troops ordered to the region by President George W Bush continued. A Pentagon official declared that the military was ready to respond "the second the president pushes the button".
Iqbal Latif
That is another crap. If we help them, we need to set up Islamic democracy not another monarchy. That article looks like somebody's political agenda. Did we learn enough lessons from Iran's Shah? We have to consider in the views of the people not just the leaders. If we help Afghanistan to set a monarchy, people overtake the kingdom like what happened in Iran. We will have to deal with the same thing. I assume You don't like that idea.
I hope full attendance.
Today, I had to drive to Sports Mart for buying soccer shoes and balls in San Leandro. The local store near Pleasanton was closed on Sunday. Many small speciality shops are closed in my area on Sunday. My daughter wants to play soccer. You know children. She wants all full gears right away. She will tell me everyday, I guess, until she gets what she wants up to next Friday's soccer class. If she joins the soccer league in the next season,I think, I will be a full time soccer dad(G). She is taking a beginner's class right now run by the city.
One thing I noticed during driving is more cars around and the parking lot over shopping full. I keep hearing many dot.com jobs evaporate in the Bay Area where I live and now aftermath after attack. It is good to see everybody busy and full parking lots in the shopping mall I went.
I think too much security is another crap. When I lived in Korea, the government kept saying North Korea's threat. Sometimes, it was real but sometimes, the government's craps for their political propaganda, especially worse under dictatorship. Sometimes, spies infiltrated and captured with Korean military and civilian casualties. North Korean commando or spies never left material witnesses so they killed many of civilians on the way if they contacted with them. South Koreans still went on their daily lives as usual except for a little tighter security. Koreans get used to report suspicious activities. They have a hot line to report. They live like that for 50 years.
As you say, we should do the same thing. I don't think we will get rid of terrorists all at once. It will take a long time and they revenge us. We have to learn how to live. For one thing, we need a nationwide hot line so people can report suspicious activities including domestic militia activities.
It's America vs Afghanistan - talk about 'war against
terrorism' is hogwash
The Americans are plotting to install a friendly regime in Kabul, and efforts are
being made to restore a monarchy that was overthrown more than 20 years ago,
says Parsa Venkateshwar Rao Jr
New Delhi, September 22
It is slowly turning out that the United States is not planning a war against terrorism as much as a war against Afghanistan. The logical pretext for the attack on Afghanistan is, of course, the presence of Osama Bin Laden in that country, and the terrorist training camps of bin Laden's Al Qadain group.
It is clear that the Taliban regime in Kabul has fallen out of grace with Washington. And it would become clear only much later whether it has anything to do with playing host to bin Laden alone, or whether there are other American reasons of state.
The defiant posturing of the Taliban has also to do with the realisation that the US would not any more support them. It will again become evident only much later as to why the US had acquiesced in the Taliban capturing Kabul and the greater part of Afghanistan - about 90 per cent of it - and why the Americans did not support the Northern Alliance.
Even as news reaches of transport planes landing in Tajikistan, of Americans aircraft carriers moving into the Gulf theatre, and commando troops landing in Pakistan, the more crucial movements are being carried out at the diplomatic level. The United Arab Emirates (UAE), one of the three countries, which recognised the Taliban regime along with Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, has cut off diplomatic relations with the Taliban on Saturday (September 22).
And on Friday (September 21), British Prime Minister Tony Blair has pulled off a diplomatic coup by roping in Iran into the coalition. Blair spoke to moderate Iranian president Mohammed Khatami over phone. Khatami was willing to join the ostensible coalition against terrorism - read Afghanistan. British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw will be going to Tehran soon. The wily Western politicians feel that it would be useful to pit a Shi'ite Iran against a Sunni Taliban regime.
And the Americans are already plotting to bring Zahir Shah, the king of Afghanistan who was overthrown in a coup in 1978, from Rome, where he has been living in exile. It is interesting that the main target of the Americans is not so much pursuing the terrorist responsible for the September carnage in New York and Washington, but that of imposing a regime in Kabul which would be moderate and, hopefully, pro-American.
The Western conservatives, who have been ranting in the columns of The Daily Telegraph and The New Republic against any talk of reorienting American foreign policy and who have been asking for nothing less than the blood of the terrorists, will be shocked to know that the American government is really back to its old games of displacing regimes in Third World countries, and that all that talk about "war against terrorism" is nothing but hogwash.
It is ironical, then, that the richest and the most powerful country in the world will now take on the poorest and militarily the most vulnerable country. And the American-Afghan war in the making has nothing to with terrorism. It is back to realpolitk, back to business as usual.
If the Americans are serious about terrorism, then they will have to attack targets other than those in Afghanistan. And each of the coalition partners also have to tackle partners in their own territories. For example, it is now a known fact, that Britain, the key partner in the global coalition, will have to some of the radical groups operating out of London and other places.
But the American game plan is something different. They are thinking, as usual, of toppling regimes which they do not like. It is interesting that the Americans have tried to topple regimes in two other contiguous countries in the last decades. First, they wanted to get rid of the Khomeini regime which camen into existence after the popular upsurge in 1979. They froze the Iranian accounts in US banks, and hoped that the economic blockade would weaken the regime. But it did not. The Khomeini regime has survived for more than two decades now.
Then came the turn of Iraq's Saddam Hussein. When Saddam Hussein in a foolhardy fashion invaded Kuwait, it provided a perfect pretext to overthrow the dictator in Baghdad, whom the Americans had supported through the Iran-Iraq war of the 1980s. But Operation Desert Storm had achieved only one of the two goals - the liberation of Kuwait. The other, the overthrow of Saddam Hussein remains unfulfilled despite brutal and illegal bombing of Baghdad in the last three years.
If the Americans did not succeed in changing regimes in Tehran and in Baghdad, will they succeed in Kabul? The optimistic American view is that the Taliban do not really enjoy popular support in the country, and that it is far easier to replace them. This could turn out to be a miscalculation. Saddam Hussein is not exactly a popular leader in Iraq, but indiscriminate American bombing of Baghdad has only ended up in creating an ironical bonding between a dictator and a people who hated the dictator.
Similarly, the Afghans must be hating the puritanical and fanatical Taliban, but that hatred would vanish the moment American bombs rain on Kabul, and American soldiers march through Afghan territories.
The games that the Americans are playing to revive the old political structures of Afghanistan including the great tribal council of Loya Jigra and the monarchy seem to be feeble and ignorant attempts on the part of Americans to lend credibility to their political machinations.
Ordinary Americans are again being deceived by their government, their political leaders.
"people may not want to watch the game."
I'll bet it will be pretty close to full attendence. 49s games usually are. If someone doesn't want their season seats any longer... I'll buy em : )
One of my friends has had A's vs Mariners tickets for a while... none of this stopped her from going. That's the way we should all respond, otherwise we are playing into the terrorists hands.
Sara
Twin Towers: The Real Story
http://www.siliconinvestor.com/stocktalk/msg.gsp?msgid=16399736
Trainer for Aghanistan guerrilla
http://www.siliconinvestor.com/stocktalk/msg.gsp?msgid=16400142
If the market slump goes on for years, we will encounter another problems in pension funds of states and counties per this article. It is not a joke to disregard.
http://www.siliconinvestor.com/stocktalk/msg.gsp?msgid=16399729
Search for bags contraband items such as knives, etc in 49's game in 3COM's park, San Francisco. Also, no airbanner allowed in air, etc. It is recommended to arrive one hour earlier. I am no sport fan but margin people may not want to watch the game. It is already a longer line.
Also, my neigbour, who works for the local police, left a copy of the note from Police to all of the my neigbours:
** High Priority **
"...This is an alert about a virus...not your hard drive. Ther have been 23 confirmed cases of people attacked by the Klingerman Virus a virus that arrives in your real mailbox, not in your e-mail inbox. Someone has been mailing large blue envelopes, seemingly at random, to people in the US and Canada.... printed 'A Gift For You From The Klingerman Foundation' the envelops are opened, there is asmall sponge sealed in plastic. This sponges carries... a strain of virus they(public health official) have not previously encountered... Those in contact...been hospitalized and with severe dysentery...So far twenty-three victims have died...Place it in a...plastic bag or container... call the police... Please pass this on to everyone..."
He is not joking. anybody hear this kinds of news.
Ike, this kind of drop in the Dow Jones is very rare except for the period of depression. Now Bush just found out we are in recession and the attack caused the economic shock. What is your game plan in the short term and long term? Is it right time to invest or hold for a while? I hope everybody cashed before this event and not invested after another black Monday.
I thought if history repeats itself, Tuesday it should be good. But not in this case. That is a reason I cannot make money in investment(G). Once there was about 20% of drop in the market around 1920 after a bomb explosion near the stock market by foreigners and some killed and hundreds wounded. That is the only comparison.
In addition to my previous post, the big guys (major airline industry) can be bailed out but not small guys. Smaller aviation has been hit hard but no help is not seen. It means more unreported unemployeds.
http://dailynews.att.net/cgi-bin/news?e=pri&dt=010923&cat=business&st=businessattackgene....
I guess Ike likes this news. Bush lifts economic sanctions on both Pakistan and India after nuclear tests. Their cooperation with America for war on terrorism helped this lifting. Where is the principle of non-proliferation of atomic bombs? Now, how can America say to North Korea(G)? Me, I hope my home county, Korea have nuclear bombs so Koreans cannot be bullied by Japan and China. Foreign policies can be changed but how much change is it justifiable?
http://dailynews.att.net/cgi-bin/news?e=pri&dt=010923&cat=politics&st=politicsattackbush....
Taliban cannot find Bin Laden and has no knowledge about his whereabout. Taliban is smart enough to play a game with us so that Taliban can declare a Holy War if we invade them to punish terrorists.
http://dailynews.att.net/cgi-bin/news?e=pri&dt=010923&cat=news&st=newsattackdc.html
Do we live in a socialist country? We just bailed out airline industry due to mismanagement and results of terrorist attacks.
Now according to this guy, we have to subsidize Amtrak because the demand increases. Amtrak is always in red and get money from government all the time.
Can anybody give me an advice how I can squeeze my own government like this big guys? Always the big guys get money from government such as the case of Savings and Loans fiasco and many more but not average Joes. Sad.
http://www.siliconinvestor.com/stocktalk/msg.gsp?msgid=16399347
There is a good way to take out Taliban leaders and command centers per the post attached below. It showed how Soviet won and started losing the war.
The question what I have is how many our guys' lives have to lose before all Stinger missiles gone. Or we have a better plan to find Taliban's weapon depot with Stinger missiles. Then it would be very successful.
Here is another thought. If they have Stinger, they may smuggle them and can use against our military or civilian aircraft. Also, in other countries. That will be serious problmes. In that case, I do not and won't blame Bush Jr's cautious behaviors for the first 8 hours after the attack; hopping a military base to another. At that time, it looked coward to me.
http://www.siliconinvestor.com/stocktalk/msg.gsp?msgid=16399318
Well thought about the current event by a professional: It is long but worth reading. Got it from G&K.
http://www.siliconinvestor.com/stocktalk/msg.gsp?msgid=16398732
Before our security system too loose, now it looks like we have overdone it. Everywhere suddenly anybody and anything related to Muslims or Arabs is suspicious. So, boarding airlines takes too long time due to security checks. Also your article tells me it already affect international trades.
Suddenly after the terrorist attack, we act like a paranoid person all over the places.
The most precious thing in my mind in America is the way of life based on freedom, democracy, and tolerance. If we lose them to overprotect us from terrorists, we are losing the war on terrorists. They want us to change our ways of life, don't they?
The numbers of airline passengers drop like stones in the air. Stock markets are dumped like garbage. I believe the most average people still hold their ever-dropped stocks and may buy stocks as many as they can as patriotic move or showing solidarity. But the institutions are the one kept selling. I don't understand why we did what the terrorists want us to do exactly.
The US is slowely loosing support of the Indian public, the saying white man speaks with forked tongue comes to mind. The last 2 times the US came in as a friend they ended up arming Pakistan and secretly supporting the militants to destablise the country. The way things are going it looks like this will be the third time and India would probebally fall into the chinese wing. Latest poll as of friday shows 68% of indian public thinks the US will do things contrary to Indian intrests and damage India and it was less than 25% last week. But if history is a guide then its better to be prepared for the evantuality. Guess some things will never change, just the actors.
If the shiet hadent hit the fan already, this will push it a lot closer. Forget global recession, look out for depression. And I am already depressed alright.
US bans ships from 24 nations, trade hit
Nidhi Nath Srinivas
NEW DELHI
GLOBAL trade and international shipping have hit a rock. The US has a directive ready not to allow entry of ships with crew or flying the flag of 24 identified nations. This means a ship cannot enter US harbours if it belongs to any of these nations, nor will it be allowed to berth if it carries crew from these countries.
They will also not be able to touch these countries as the last port of call before sailing for America.
The directive, proposed by the US Coast Guard, has turning into a virtual nightmare for the shipping industry. It is desperately seeking to make vessels US-directive compliant, causing an upheaval in the industry — routes are being altered, crews changed and vessel contracts are being reworked.
The order will also introduce mind-numbing complications in the movement of cargo which, in turn, means global trade has just become a lot more tedious, if not very difficult.
The 24 countries being named by the US Coast Guard in its proscribed list are: UAE, Jordan, Kuwait, Turkey, Syria, Yemen, Iran, Iraq, Libya in the Middle East; Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, Algeria, Somalia and Sudan in Africa; Maldives, Malaysia and North Korea in Asia; Yugoslavia in eastern Europe; and the CIS states of Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, and Uzbekistan.
The remaining three are Cuba, Afghanistan and Cameroon.
Indian exports to the US is worth $12 billion, or one-thirds roughly of all exports. The new American law is expected to make life awfully tough for Indian exporters.
For one thing, they will no longer be able to export goods to the US in vessels that touch Dubai — which at present, is a usual stopover. For another, transhipment of Indian goods through Dubai will no longer be possible.
Said a representative of an international trading house here: “We don’t know what has hit us. We are now desperately seeking alternative routes.
Apart from affecting the availability of ships to move cargo to the US, the directive effectively bars exports from these countries to the US unless the goods are sent through another country’s vessel and on a carefully plotted route map which avoids all barred ports. In current circumstances, this is virtually impossible to achieve.’’
The international trading companies fear that other US allies, like its European allies, Japan and Australia may also follow suit in a knee-jerk reaction.
“Even if these allies bar a few of these countries for a short while, the impact on trade and prices would be substantial. In fact, goods from these barred countries will be impossible to move,’’ they said.
For India, the US Coast Guard fatwa could be a mixed blessing. Indian ships and crew can continue entering US ports and it may become the preferred carrier for neighbouring countries, like Malaysia and the Middle East, which are now barred from doing business themselves.
However, Indian exports that reach USA via Dubai could be badly affected by this decision. Basmati rice, engineering goods, machinery, garments, and steel follow this route.
“If the ban is not lifted in the next few months, the resultant impact on Indian trade could become very grim,’’ sources said. Already, Indian importers have begun to feel the pinch as foreign ships are increasingly reluctant to dock at ports on the west coast like Kandla and JNPT.
Havent you studied history? The aryans invaded the indian sub continent. And converted those who were there to their own versions. I think most muslims in india were not converted from hinduism. Just like not many westerners know that the christians in india were christians long before their ancestors were. Dont worry, the aryans now want to drive out the rest of the the original indians. So you have race and relegion on top of everything else. And the bangladeshi's who were so.. liberated from the opressive pakistani regime of the time now dont like the indians either, even though there is like 5 mil refugees form there in india. Now I can never understand why pakistan1 would not like pakistan2.. Oh well..
I also saw some nut posting that he would just nuke everything and be done with it. I was saying the same thing, india has much better nuclear capability, so you loose 25% of your population.. Still 750 mil left.. Maybe use the ones left to take care of another 25% by friendly fire.
Another thing that puzzles me is why the US would support insurgents in india, which is supposedly a democratic country and mostly peaceful. Although not openly and not lately. But they had done it.
And why they dropped afganistan like a bomb after they were done with it. Hey you create a madman and then say ops out of funds, see ya.. And hope they dont know how to swim the vast oceans, leaving the scrounge to feed on other helpless people closer.
Hey I am really a pacifist.. I think we can do much greater things together that benefit ALL off mankind than alone. Just think, let alone in a 1000 years, in the grand scheme of things, we are not even dust. And the second order is going to shove this miserable planet into the sun to create an overpass in the area for their trasglatic freeway and put us all out of our misery.
Nosrta has said the future is not defined, we can change the timeline! But if we dont then his predictions will come true. I DO know the little things can be changed, but not sure how effective the big ones can be changed, eg neapoline and hitler etc.. I am hoping we dont have WW3. Using nukes or unresonable tactics would definetely push us on nostra's path to destruction. What we need is understanding, of other human suffering and to take on some of that suffering ourselves and act as one people. or TRY. Having multiple humans one higher and other lower will bring on the same conditions as slavery. I wont have to worry long about being scared and all this stuff, but I would hope mankind would be around in the end.
Woudnt that be god's purpose?
> Attack on America would go down in the history as one of the worst attack
> on Humanity. Everybody is blaming Osama Bin Laden for that. The
> Mastermind. What perfect example of management can better be than this.
> Osama had actually planned this for India and asked his "Managers" to
> study the same. The "Managers" carried out a real time exercise to get
to
> the basics of it. But, as fate would have it, the results were
frustrating
> for Osama. Days before 11/Sept, Osama had frustratingly thrown a report
> back on his desk after he went thru, what can be said the outcome of the
> exercises carried out by their "managers". Our spl. correspondent had
> somehow got the chance to steal the following extract of the report:
>
> " Sir Osama Assalam Aliekum
> We had carried out the exercise you asked us to do so. We had targetted
> Qutub Minar in Delhi and we had very easily got into 5 Indian Airlines
> Planes flying from Mumbai to Guwahati, with our guns and grenades.
> But the operations could not be carried out because of the following
> reasons:
>
> 1) Plane 1: Did not take off. It developed Technical Diffculties.
>
> 2) Plane 2: It took Off but had a forced landing due to fuel shortage in
> Jaipur. When investigated, we learnt that both the Pilots were Sardarjis
> who came late on Duty. As such they had started the plane on the runway,
> stepped out of the cockpit and stood in front of the engine Fans to dry
> their Hair. It consumed half of the fuel.
>
> 3) Plane 3: It took off and was successfully approaching Delhi. We were
> about to take over the aircraft when suddenly it started descending
> steeply. On investigating we learnt that both the pilots were Punjabis and
> were closely related. During some friendly chat they developed some
> arguments over their parental property and when the matter got
> intense, they started physical fighting leaving aircraft to Allah.
>
> 4) Plane 4: We had taken over the controls of the plane without any
> bloodshed. We paid Rs.5,000/- each to the Pilots who agreed to jump out
> leaving the planes to us and we went ahead to destroy Qutub Minar. As we
> increased the speed for the bang, the plane could not withstand the
> desired speed and wobbled towards one side. It crashed 20 miles east of
> Qutub Minar.
>
> 5) Plane 5: We tried again. But this time by mistake we had a passanger
> named Laloo Yadav on Board. We don't know how he came to know about our
> plans and came straight in to the cabin. Accusing us that we were
> opposition's pawns, we were simply outnumbered by his co passengers who
> were supposed to be his supporters. We were thrown out of the plane and
> right now writing this report from Safdurjung Hospital.
>
> The situation is worse here and nobody cares about us. For Allah, please
> take us from here .......please""
Always English teach us a lesson: read this article. Whoever starts first, we get into the mess and became the victim of the mess. We have to clean up now.
http://www.siliconinvestor.com/stocktalk/msg.gsp?msgid=16385594
Aso, correspondent to the post.
http://www.siliconinvestor.com/stocktalk/msg_multireplies.gsp?msgid=16385594
Ike, you defended Pakistan's position very well. you are right to be proud of the fact that free speech is still allowed in your country. It is hard for people growing up here to understand your points of view fully. I can say many Koreans still believe CIA coordinated assasination of President Park, dictator, who tried to build his own nuclear arsonal against US warning. He headed on with Jimmy Carter that time. Without any follow-up game plan of CIA after assasination, Korean fell into another worsest dictatorship, President Chun. He pledged secretly not to develop the neuclear bombs. In return he would get US's full support of Mr. Chun's regime and business as usual. Do you know how many people were killed by him? Thousands. We never know rhe acutual numbers. The nuclear project was secretly desmantled and the chief of the project was killed by accident. Many Americans don't understand anti-American attitude in Korea you know.
Also, US government forcefully pushed Korean government not to develop medium and long-range missiles as well as supplied equipment not strong enough to invade the North Korea(G)-no Koreans want to do anyway. US never sold the most advanced airplanes and other military equipment even though Korean government want to buy. Only Israel and European allies (mostly British)can get them. I read Saudi too sometimes. Korea is one of the strong allies of US and will be. However Koreans have some animosity about US government involvement and policies during the dark era of dictatorship.
Every country who deals with US has problems with them especially when CIA is involved. Ususally US foreign policy is not followed through and shortsighted. US cannot use only force to achieve our goals by intimidating allies such as Pakistan. It is very easy for outsiders to see the different aspects.
My home country, Korea is just one of the countries who rise and fall in Korean peninsula for thousands' years. Koreans struggle to survive and arise from ashes. Pakistan is one of the countires in the sub-continent. Pakistans will do the same thing.
This atrocity is never allowed in any place in the world. It has to be stopped. The problem is how to stop. Without rooting out the cause of mass hatred, there will be another one. There will be terrorists all the time throughout history. Some of reasons are not started by US. It is long before US established. However, US is symbol of western civilization as a youngest member but the strongest and wealthiest one. That is why US is constant targets of terrorists.
Before taking major military action, US needs to have a comprehensive plan how to deal with roots throughout middle east, Indian sub-continent and Indonesia and Philippines. We have to deal with this crisis with cool mind not with anger and vengence. The consequence of mistake is too grave and painful for long run. The religious fanatics are one of the worst enemies. Those are the ones we have to deal with for years not months. We have to unite together to fight this war on terroism. We need full supports of other countries.
Ike, the problem I have here is propaganda. Left wing rhetoric will inflame those that support is war, conquest, campaign whatever to eradicate terrorism that Islamic nations have let fester and even supported over their own people and not want to whine "Poor Me" America needs to educate us and teach how not to be slaves to evil ... Makes me sick.
:=) Gary Swancey
I totally agree with your statements. I hope that we will have a new beginning in the sub-continent where we can respect the life of a human being and not destroy life on the basis of ideology. I am confident of the ability of the US to conclude in a manner that will be helpful for mankind.
I pray that Pakistan becomes a more open society and hopefully begin a new chapter in our relationships in the subcontinent. My instincts lead me to believe that this will happen albeit with hurdles we must cross. Ike
Iqbal Latif
US supported taliban during Russian war and it backfired.
US supported Iraq and backfired.
Indira Gandhi created the terrorist and later they killed her.
Pakistan supported all those terrorists and I sincerely hope nothing will happen to Gen. Musharraf at this time. Worst come worse, hope US and Musharraf have a backup plan.
<when is Islam going to have its Reformation?>
It is a race to the bottom in Islamic world Peter.... all extremists are alike, all those who don't forgive and tolerate are alike, fortitude, forebearnce, tolerance and continous study to learn are keys to reformation, we have none of this in ample supplies in our societies, with kind
of Osamas we have, how can we think otherwise. I have learned this in my little useful or useless life.
Until they think freely and out of the control of clergy that dominates them.
Intellectual inquiry is frowned, theory conspiracies abound and struggle against win of Allah untiring, that unfortunately leads them the dash to the bottom of the world table in terms of human development index. On education the lowest is Afghanistan, Somalia, Chad and Sudan and what is common in them they are all Muslim nation's, on children illiteracy the highest in the world is again the galaxy of the nations that are Afghanistan, Pakistan, Sudan .
In infant mortality again same nations with some varied difference head the table, unless we go for education the right kind, allow the enquiry of mind and allow them to grow open this bigotry and this renaissance would never materialize, I hate to write all that, I am one of the inhabitants of that region, I come from a background that was great because my grand father sided with British philosophy to train his kids in normal schools instead of religious schools which only teach religion and dogma.
Our reformists or people who challenge this all are called as infidels and declared apostates handed swift justice, the race to the bottom never ends it accelerates with events like that of 11th, Sept the blackest day for mankind, in this day and age if we still have to convince nations that it was wrong and it was reprehensible it means that renaissance has not even started, how many Muslims who read my thread has come out and said Ike we listen to you, we share or we oppose your views, that silence disturbs me, about markets I get a lot of enquiries from my brethren who consider me one of them, about humanity none, that makes me very very sad.
Iqbal Latif
I hope we can find some common ground and have peace. Thanks for a very good response. I am grateful.
Iqbal Latif
My response is simply a well and concise non war and peace composition unlike the propaganda for the Islams.
Crime or War? The Proper Response to the Terrorist Attacks in New York and Washington
http://www.aynrand.org/medialink/crimeorwar.shtml
September 17, 2001
By Dianne Durante
I am haunted by words from an Ayn Rand novel: "They don't want to live; they want you to die." Watching the smoke from thousands of lives and billions of dollars of property billow past my child's playground in New York on September 11th, I finally grasped what those words meant. The attacks on New York and Washington that day were obviously not just an attempt to strike at America's economy, defense, prestige or national symbols. These attacks, carried out at the beginning of a busy weekday in two of the most populous cities of the East Coast, were cold-bloodedly calculated to wreak maximum death and devastation.
The question—the immediate, essential, urgent question—is how to prevent more attacks by fanatics so zealous to kill Americans that they are willing to die doing it. Our proper response depends on whether this is a crime by individuals or an act of war by a foreign government. If it was a crime by an individual, like the Oklahoma City bombing, then we would gather the evidence and bring the perpetrator to trial. If it was a crime by individuals sponsored and abetted by a foreign government, then it was an act of war, and is a matter for military action: immediate and decisive. If the attack was in fact government-sponsored, then capturing and punishing individual killers is less crucial than preventing further attacks by the foreign government.
Mere hours after the bombings, there was already evidence that terrorist Osama bin Laden was involved. Bin Laden boasted weeks ago that "something big" would be happening soon. Convincing evidence indicates his involvement in earlier bombings, including the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center (6 dead, over 1,000 wounded), the 1998 bombings of U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania (224 dead, over 5,000 wounded), and the 2000 bombing of the USS Cole in the harbor of Aden (17 dead, 39 wounded). Bin Laden publicly proclaimed in 1998, "To kill Americans and their allies, both civil and military, is an individual duty of every Muslim who is able, in any country where this is possible." With such a record and such explicit statements, it is easy to believe that bin Laden masterminded the slaughter of September 11.
That, however, does not mean that he is solely responsible, or that eliminating him would eliminate terrorist activity against the United States. Why?
Bin Laden and his like could not operate without the knowledge, cooperation and approval of the governments in whose territory they encamped. Sometimes the cooperation is merely turning a blind official eye to the presence of sizeable enclaves where dozens or hundreds of armed men are being drilled in infiltration, communications, counter-intelligence, weapons, sabotage, murder. Sometimes the government is more active, providing weapons, men, supplies and money.
We have known for a long time which governments are active supporters of terrorists: Iran, Iraq, Syria, the Sudan, Libya, Afghanistan. They have constantly and explicitly abetted bin Laden and other terrorists, and have repeatedly refused to close down the training camps within their boundaries, or to extradite known terrorists. Given the hatred of these governments for the United States—its wealth, its pride, its technology, its emphasis on life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness—if bin Laden were killed tomorrow, they would eagerly fund others to take his place. The only way to stop further terrorist attacks is therefore to deal with the source—the countries who harbor terrorists.
We are at war, and we must respond accordingly, causing maximum damage as quickly as possible with minimum risk to and loss of American lives. We must deliver an ultimatum to Iran, Iraq, Syria, the Sudan, Libya and Afghanistan: within seven days, disarm your military, destroy all terrorist camps within your borders, and allow constant inspections henceforth to guarantee that you do not again become a threat to American citizens. If these countries fail to comply—which is extremely likely, given America's record of vacillation and weakness in the face of decades of terrorist attacks—we must unhesitatingly bomb the terrorist camps to rubble, AND raze the capitals of the countries in question, starting with Afghanistan. Blow them out of the 21st century and back to the period that had no respect for life, liberty and property: the Dark Ages.
What about the "innocent citizens" in those countries? Many danced in the streets with delight at the news that thousands of American civilians had been burned and crushed to death. If there are any true innocents among them, let them take those seven days to flee the capital and the country, or to rebel.
To retaliate against a country whose government aids and abets terrorists is not vengeance. It is not bloodlust. It is not murder. It is self-defense. They do not want to live: we do. Let's remove their threat so promptly and so decisively that no one will think of making it again—and then get on with our lives.
Every liberal and terrorist sympathizer or Islam "Poor Me" proagandaist should read this before they start ... lets help the "Poor Me" crock.
:=) Gary Swancey
<The terror continues unabated today. Dozens of Hindu and other pro-Indian civilians, and security personnel, are butchered every week by Pakistan/Afghanistan-based Islamic terrorist groups such as Harkat-ul-Mujahideen, Lashkar-e-Toiba, Al-Badr Mujahideen, Tehrik-ul-Mujahideen and Hizbul Mujahideen, in the Indian state of Jammu and Kashmir.>
It is condemnable and has to be stopped immediately. These kinds of activities have no place in a balanced human society. I hope that US may not forget it in heat of moment as planes are landing in Pakistan to strike, Pakistan is a front line US ally right now that makes this map kind of tinted with lot of propaganda and hatred. In case of Afghanistan it may be correct because officially they are supporting this terrorism, in case of Pakistan we have these strange bedfellows out of default not design and we have to make do with them. I hope once again expediency may not lead US to forget about everything on the fringe once Osama issue is resolved. We ended up in bed with them out of policies that I have explained in later part that were faulty.
My great grand parents were Hindus probably, and I love Hindus and have no alliance with the Arab grid or descendancy that most of the Pakistanis would like to call them in or relate to. We were all converted to what we are today as matter of fact as a part of destiny probably. Some who were weakest converted to Islam first, the strongest and the Jats resisted that Islamic invasion well and were left as they were, as such we are cousins of Hindus, when a drop of Hindu blood is spilled it is our blood and for me it has to stop and this is the reason I was the host of the famous Vajpayee mission to Lahore and we still tell our nation go get friendship with India is our prerogative, this will one day happen and will happen soon.
For me a Hindu live is as important as a Muslim live or any Jewish life. I have hated this hatred and hopefully expect that eternal friendship with India and Israel will come true one day. Indian and Pakistan has fought many wars but they have a relationship that goes beyond hatred or love, it is in between love and little dislike, our culture is common our goals to eradicate poverty common and now we have been engaging in soul searching to find the right bearing to go ahead and stop this blood shed. All of these terrorists even in that plane came from Egypt, Saudi Arabia, UAE and Lebanon, and one thing is common they are all close US allies. And the worst no one wants to see from where they are being produced, the two plane that hit North and South Tower were piloted by mad Egyptian fundos from Cairo, now we need to see what is causing these fundos to prepare, where is the hornets nest, it is not in my country it is all around Islamic world that has gone crazy in search of that greatest day. Run to the moral depravity depths and rewards on ‘
Day of judgement’ where these crooks will be rewarded has blinded them. It is the ideological belief that as made them mad not the country they belong too.
Pakistan was considered as the terror bed but look at where the US might have landed. It is in Pakistan and none of the perpetrators or think tanks is fortunately Pakistani. It was propaganda, the Arab international network of terrorists does not trust the Pakistanis too close to Americans they are termed as and they think that they can be moles, they just use them, as FL’s to use the land calling Pakistan ‘a fortress of Islam’ and then ditch them in poverty to rot. We have learned our lesson as that Pakistani strong man said ‘I am not going to protect the interest for anything else but Pakistan’. With that one address, he shell shocked the ideological basis of the country that ‘calls the interests of Islam above the countries’ but that was rejected. In my opinion it is a turning point and a significant one for the Islamic world. Undoubtedly, this will have long-term implications on future relationships.
To hide behind Islam, these terrorists destroy the nation by engaging in this kind of activities. As I mentioned in my first post, Pakistan is the pivot to address these issues; In addition, they are dependable US allies also. Instead of being the target, Pakistan are now a front line state allied with the US. Much as our enemies detest it, the US has realised that this is where her interests lies, it has also promised us to help eradicate terrorism, all these organisations would be wiped cleaned with US help, it was US that created them, the mother of all ‘Taliban’ to destroy communism, we need them to be destroyed now by the US. What one sow is what one can see reap? Before the Afghan war that Pakistan fought as a proxy for the US to bring U.S.S.R down, every gun was licensed. I was born in a small town, which had 2 missionary schools, St Mary’s and St Xavier and over 15 missionaries teaching at these schools. My small town had two full-size churches and until 1969, I remember visiting these churches and it was obligatory on all students, Father Boneventure and Father Todd would see to it that we would make to for early prayers. This was my country.
In the Afghan War, Islamic fundamentalism was supported to destroy the Russians. The dirty proxy war was left for the Pakistanis and Afghanis to fight. The fundamentalist and extremist General Zia was supported to the hilt and Americans looked the other way when the General closed down the missionary’s schools all over Pakistan. He then began merciless censorship and open imports of arms and 100,000 one can seeing Arab Islamic one can see they were invited to engage the Russians. Who trained Laden? Who trained all these would be soldiers of Islam? It was the CIA. Who trained the ISI to become such a draconian organisation? Who gave us billions of dollars in aid to build up our military might that could challenge India that was a far bigger power and should have been the logical custodian in the region? It was the US, which made us the force that we are today, and one can see who have the audacity to point Pakistan as a center of terrorism. Yes it probably is, but do not forget who made Pakistan what it is today.
Everyone can be nuked for the 5,000 innocent lives in which 200 of my fellow country men are buried but since 1979, Pakistan has lost 280,000 people in terrorist attacks as a result of intervention in the Afghan war against the Russians. People didn’t even know about it. It has dawned upon everyone and they are surprised why Powell and Cheney are supporting Pakistan and why Pakistan has been elevated to ally to the chagrin of many. It is because the past and present American leaders realise what Pakistan has done for the US and has risen to the occasion every time.
Everyone has his own agenda and the ideal thing for my nations enemies would have been total eradication and destruction of Pakistan. This diplomatic coup by my president has been a nightmare to Pakistan’s foe. No Pakistani leader has ever put her own country ahead of Islam and has suffered for it like our Afghan adventure was based on saving Islam from communism and in hindsight we should have not. We should have not helped the US with the proxy war to destroy Russia. Afghanistan would have been a more stable country like China is today and Pakistan would have not become the hostage of terrorist networks. The deranged terrorist Arabs like Laden would have not been brought by CIA to my country to train there. The infrastructure of my country laid beautifully by the British over 200 years of colonial rule was destroyed as a result of the Afghan war.
The Islamic demi-gods that we have today are a direct consequence of sleeping with US policies and one can see who wanted us to be nuked, the innocent people of Pakistan? I am feeble but even a feeble person like me hopefully break those hands and gouge those eyes that cast an unwarranted action against my country without any cause, if Pakistan would have sided with the Taliban I would have had nothing to do with that decision. But to day after all this as a nation no one would like to be ridiculed or threatened to be nuked.
We are reasonable people but no one can bulldoze us. If anyone has any doubts on our strategic capabilities, ask the Russians.
The terrorism sponsored by the organisations based in Pakistan is centred on Kashmir. It is something that Pakistani's would have to deliver now, the annihilation of these terrorist organisations. Justice would require that after killing all of them or nuking them as the case may require, UN resolutions may be referred to get the settlement. Now that raises temperatures I don’t know why.
Give the Kashmir’s right to vote on self-determination that is what they want, like I have every four years and to their terrorist give them hell. I hope this will be acceptable to everyone reasonable. These UN resolutions giving the right of self-determination to Kashmir’s date back to 1949, and they are all in cold storage. But look who is the biggest loser, when I wrote that article ‘Darkest days’ I pointed out that pressure will be on states that continue to overlook UN resolutions.
Hamas will be liquidated but so has Israel withdrawn from Territories yesterday. That was predicted, and pressure is now own to start the peace process. Same with these organisations don’t overlook that fact that causes of problems will be addressed, as the obvious would be attacked.
Pakistan has to stop this criminal activity of abetting terrorism on its soil but so would India have to relent on UN resolutions. The later is more worrisome part for many a states who wished to neglect these very rights of human being like freedom and right to vote under pretext of fighting terrorism, one can see that the former act of abetting terrorism was only a goal to achieve the later. This will now be probably achieved and that concern some as ‘paradigm of relationships and dynamics of UN resolutions will change completely. This was not the result expected out of this 'darkest day' in mankinds history expectations were that ‘nuke’ everyone in sight strategy would be adopted, as time has passed it is the closest of the allies whose nationslsd are involved and that is quite tricky to handle.
These entire terrorist organisations based in Cairo, Syrian, Palestinian, Kashmiris would have to go but so would be the result that the long cold stored neglected solutions will be provided. The terrorist organisations have hijacked just causes and given a bad name. Now the world will ask about the underlying causes. They would have to be addressed even after 50 nukes. After Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Japan was rebuilt by McArthur, so were Germans who mercilessly killed 10 million Jews for no fault, but they were given a Marshall plan, same thing will happen with many of these very unfortunate countries, the people of the world may be ‘Nuked’ that I doubt, but may be some represent that strong US will and strong passion, but the ultimate result of all this will be more than one can imagine. The very causes these bastards organisations hijack and so far were unresolved will be resolved, that is may be the real worry of many a people.
Too many Nukes will destroy also the ecological balance of the world, so US also have to be careful about selectivity of that. Most of these bastards as far as Pakistan is concerned very much have their organisational structures near city centres so Lahore and Sialkot can be nuked to take out 4,000 of these crooks, the innocents 5 million can go to hell, after all what is 5 million Pakistanis nuke them. No, it is not logical; we cannot become terrorists like these crooks and bandits out their, what these guys want us to become exactly that, we will maintain that decency as humans and find them and destroy them.
By the way Pakistan and Indians have Nuke too, they can use it quite easily on their own respective populace if ‘Nuking them’ become a fashion like changing underwear’s. I know this will break my truce, but I have the same rights to defend my nation as some have the rights to attack it despite being today an ally of US. Those who are not prepared to forgive us for what these alliances represent. That is not broad US thinking today and I am proud of that. Indians and Pakistanis are sensible breed, we visit each other, we have long-standing relationships and we will come out of it intact. At the moment we are allies with US and providing all possible help and 40 scuds are facing my town and my house, which for me is big enough a sacrifice to kill terrorism and deal it the final coup de grace.
If one can’t respect my nation who is standing by I would not like that these funny remarks about nuking the innocent lives of Pakistani and Afghan peoples are gone unnoticed. Yes 5,000 lives were lost but do not forget the sacrifice of 280,000 Pakistanis who have become a cannon fodder of the Afghan war in act of terrorism and in war. Today I am only requesting that at least consider that 60 Pakistani lives are equal to 1 American life. Don’t forget that the 40 scuds the Taliban have will fall on Pakistanis and not Americans.
One again we have proven our dedication to spill blood for an American cause. We, as an nation are proud of standing with America in her hour of need like we did in WW2, Korean War, Cuban Missile Crisis by giving airbases in Pakistan to fly U-2 planes, post-Vietnam War by opening up the bridges for a relationship between China and the US. It was the disappearance of Henry Kissinger in Islamabad for 2 days when he went to Peking in a Pakistani plane to meet Chairmen Mao. On this, Richard Nixon said and I quote “ We will never forget the help of Pakistan in opening China”. In 1978-88, we fought Russia as a proxy for one can see. We have our honour and dignity and it is Pakistan who has stood by the US when they needed us. Please understand and don’t belittle our contribution. I assure you that nuclear and missile technology is no fun, too hot to handle, we are on the verge of producing thermo-nuclear weapons and so we now what this dirty game is all about. Every nation has its ‘doomsday’ scenario we have one too. We cannot do much but like French De-Gaulle use to say we will tear the arm that tries to nuke us just for fun and without a cause, for a cause we will accept it.
Iqbal Latif
Iqbal Latif
As far as being worst enemy Clinton forgives terrorist of the FALN and then allows Key encryption devices to go to terrorist states.
Already the liberals and conservatist are starting their crock, which is exactly what the terrorist expect also. The bleeding hearts of the USA (enemy within) to apply public sentiment.
I am almost 49 years old but if the military would have me I would be there in a heartbeat.
:=) Gary Swancey
<It was the US that built up the Taliban against the USSR.
Too often it would appear that we have been our own worst enemy.>
That is the problem, short termism that leads to these volatile siuations..
Iqbal Latif
Iqbal Latif
It should stop immediately even by force, in accordance with UN resolutions adopted.
Iqbal Latif
They all ahould be annihilated, I agree, they deserve it.
Iqbal Latif
This may answer your concerns.
I accept this confrontation for sake of justice, so does every one else supporting this cause, at midnight when my President was sleeping he was asked one liner friends or foes, typical western style like dead or alive! He said friends no money-changed hand, nor it should normally. It will be a price that we have to pay; in first few days some were trying their level best to get us declared as the target, luckily we escaped from this all with our integrity intact.
We have offered US all the support since 1960's rather our independence, Gary Powel use to fly out of Peshawar from Budbier in U-2’s that is the reason USSR never liked us nor does it now in bed with us, we supported your decision to overturn Russian invasion of Afghanistan, we were partly responsible for that bringing down the USSR empire with your help that expedited the fall of Iron Curtain in Europe and what happened, let me tell US ditched us immediately soon after that, these poor people have been treated like poor vassal state. We have given you Amil Kansi and Ramzi Yousef , they were arrested by FBI in 1995-97 within hinterland of Pakistan deported out within an hour, no extradition nothing, no courts these are the criminals who attacked the WTC and CIA officials, in return we have been treated on par with states like Sudan and other states and that is one reason we have people who tell us why you want to support US now when we will be forgotten soon after that. In Gulf war we had 20,000 people in SA. Pakistan unfortunately talks about Islam a lot but is one of the most moderate of the states within our part of the world, I can write like this even when I am in Pakistan I will not be picked up by state security even when I was opposing Nuclear detonations no one asked me why you are doing that, in Arab world show dissidence and you are history but most unfortunately we are treated as same bunch as Sudan or Iraq if nothing better. However anytime you need us we are there by your side. That makes me feel proud of my nation, to side with justice.
This money thing is just propaganda, our stocks market is closed now for 5th day in running it has tanked by 15% and will not open until Monday, we had no other choice, either we would have been the target of war and our Nuclear deterrence would have been destroyed by people who wanted us to be the US enemy number 1 which my people saw it coming and intelligently sided with the state that we decided in 1947 to side with. On our independence we had two invitations one from USSR other from USA, we went on the side of US from 1947 our neighbour the other way, we joined USA in SEATO, CENTO, we brought the balance in Asia in face of rising threat to communism.
Pakistan military and US military has closest of ties, until yesterday when I wrote on this thread that preparation are far advanced since 14th Us SSG’s are n Pakistan preparing for landings, no one thought that but today 100 planes are heading towards bases in Pakistan, we have taken on the wrath of the Khan and Pushtuns we have our own Pushtuns over 15 million, the worst of enemies USSR and British can tell you, you take a fight with them that runs 15 generation, we have taken that on. These people will hate us more than US because we betrayed them in their opinion we think we had to do that, the Generals I talk to tell me it was in first few minutes that Musharraf decided where he is going on basis of ‘justice’ he told them we cannot overlook this. Think hard about if your target was Pakistan, you could have decimated us in no time but that would have resulted in a major problem with many of the states who protect us, China AND Saudis would HAVE never allow this, if oil embargo would have to come it could have ONLY come if Pakistan would have been declared a target without cause, that what our enemies wanted us to be declared.
Saudis since nuclear detonation by Pakistan are paying for the entire oil imports on a interest free credit, China needs us as a proxy against India, and takes care of our needs and would not have allowed open aggression on us for reasons that we never understood, and had no connection with this act for which we were initially being targeted by global media harping reports that Pakistan is involved whereas not a single Pakistani has been involved so far luckily would have hated that.
Pakistan could have waited and sold herself as prostitute to the highest bidder that would certainly be USA, we don’t do that and please don’t read this propaganda, the people in Pakistan need to be told that we have material benefits from it, we are just doing what we have always done being unknown friends of US in need and in times, no discussion have taken place so far, I will quote US ambassador to Pakistan that US is studying to help Pakistan.
Just thank God that we had a liberal heading Pakistan if otherwise, fragmentation of a nation with a huge nuclear arsenal would be nightmarish. It could be done but at a cost that would be horrendous. Someone with 50 nuclear bombs and 200 missiles and fourth largest standing Army in the world who has spent his entire GDP foolishly of over 50% on defence would have taken some time to be conquered that would have required a coalition that would bring in India and may be Israel, that would have been a true confrontation with China and Islamic word on one side and USA, USSR, India and Israel on the other and Pakistan as a target with Afghanistan. This is what Clash of Civilisation could have been, that policy luckily US ARMY torpedoed, Powel and Cheney knew our longstanding involvement and relationships with US and as luck would have it our intelligence chief of ISI was in Washington on 11th of Sept and taken to briefing straight away.
In Nato or outside I will like to inform you that Pakistan has been the closest US allies, unfortunately for reasons not to alienate domestic homegrown extremist this has been a well-kept secret. Whenever US wanted anything they get it on priority basis, we understand that we need US on our side we are a young nation and need US more than US needs us. I think our loans will stay and we will just be given a good conduct certificate for our work like before, we are no Arabs like Egypt and Saudi who manufacture these deranged –astards who can fly these things right into the buildings, but we are a very sensible nation and we are prod to be part of this collation to set things right and I hope US makes sure that next time they have sensible people running Afghanistan and help eradicate this extreme poverty to win the cold war on belly of Afghanistan and to leaver it to rot my have been the biggest error of the liberals within US. Like Germany we could have had a small very small Marshal Plan to rebuild them after USSR break up, Afghanistan expedited it, Brezhnev had lost his face in Politburo, the huge toll of life of Russians FAR TO GREAT, the dream of Peter the great to reach the warm waters of Persian Gulf was thwarted by the US-Pakistani Afghan coalition, once that goal was not possible the USSR crumpled as a result of 9 year bloody quagmire they could not extricate themselves form it. US on other had has an ally that knows the region and knows the country inside out, they would not get bogged down. Read ‘Bear trap’ and you will see.
Iqbal Latif
Your right but there is an easy solution ...
:=) Gary Swancey
It is good for the world and also Pakistan that Gen. Musharraf is supporting USA even though it is against the will of 2/3 of people of Pakistan. If they take Musharraf out of the game, then Taliban cannot be defeated unless another General supports USA.
Here is exactly what needs to stop:
http://www.kashmir-information.com/Terrorism/bulletin.html
:=) Gary Swancey
One more thing ... you want to come off as a conservative or liberal or "Poor Me" type ... that red spot in the map in the previous post would be a glassy plain. Just be glad I am not the president because I would NOT send our young men into harms way. Nuke em and be done with it.
If someone wants a fight or do another terroristic act to America. Nuke em and be done with it.
Instead of sitting around on our dead duffs and letting the Mafia take over the USA we went after them. That is What the Islamic leaders should have done a long time a go ... called a Holy War or Islamic terrorism.
:=) Gary Swancey
Ike, Thank you very much for writing all the war possibilites.
Now once the war starts and if it takes a long time say 6 months, can Pakistan President under pressure from his own people withdraw the support to USA and then what may be the consequence. This report from a newspaper says Pakistan has its military, still in Afganistan.
http://www.thenewspapertoday.com/world/inside.phtml?NEWS_ID=28003
If the war is prolonged more than 6 months, it may lead to world war 3.
When you research the truely out of control terrorism a lot of the roads lead to guess where? If you are going to take out a problem then you go to the heart of the problem.
Osama Bin Laden's network, which supports numerous terrorist groups in Afghanistan, collaborates extensively and shares training facilities with over a dozen Islamic terrorist groups based in Pakistan. The terror continues unabated today. Dozens of Hindu and other pro-Indian civilians, and security personnel, are butchered every week by Pakistan/Afghanistan-based Islamic terrorist groups such as Harkat-ul-Mujahideen, Lashkar-e-Toiba, Al-Badr Mujahideen, Tehrik-ul-Mujahideen and Hizbul Mujahideen, in the Indian state of Jammu and Kashmir.
Bottom line to the U.S. Counterterrorism Policy:
First, make no concessions to terrorists and strike no deals;
Second, bring terrorists to justice for their crimes;
Third, isolate and apply pressure on states that sponsor terrorism to force them to change their behavior; and
Fourth, bolster the counterterrorism capabilities of those countries that work with the U.S. and require assistance.
:=) Gary Swancey
Ghandi was a great man ... but that post is a crock of nothing more than nonsense. We have tried negotiating and being the talkative type. We got our economy nailed and over 5000 innocent dead.
Personally I say nail the Islam Extremeist with quick in and out. Any Islam government that does not like it start making glassy plains. As far as Islam religion or political issues that is not USA affairs. Just taking out all the terrorist groups and nail the governments that have hide them.
The enemy:
Abu Nidal Organization (ANO)
Abu Sayyaf Group (ASG)
Alex Boncayao Brigade (ABB)
Anti-Imperialist International Brigade (AIIB)
see Japanese Red Army
Arab Revolutionary Brigades
see Abu Nidal Organization (ANO)
Armed Islamic Group
Army for the Liberation of Rwanda (ALIR)
Aum Shinrikyo
see Aum Supreme Truth (Aum)
Aum Supreme Truth (Aum)
Basque Fatherland and Liberty (ETA)
Black September
see Abu Nidal Organization (ANO)
Continuity Army Council
see Continuity Irish Republican Army (CIRA)
Continuity Irish Republican Army (CIRA)
Dev Sol
see Revolutionary People's Liberation Party/Front (DHKP/C)
Devrimci Sol (Revolutionary Left)
see Revolutionary People's Liberation Party/Front (DHKP/C)
Egyptian Islamic Jihad
see Al-Jihad
Ellalan Force
see The Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE)
Euzkadi Ta Askatasuna
see Basque Fatherland and Liberty (ETA)
Fatah Revolutionary Council
see Abu Nidal Organization (ANO)
Federation of Associations of Canadian Tamils (FACT)
see The Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE)
First of October Antifascist Resistance Group (GRAPO)
Former Armed Forces (ex-FAR)
see Army for the Liberation of Rwanda (ALIR)
Al-Gama'a al-Islamiyya
HAMAS (Islamic Resistance Movement)
Harakat ul-Mujahidin (HUM)
Hizballah (Party of God)
Interahamwe
see Army for the Liberation of Rwanda (ALIR)
Irish Republican Army (IRA)
see Provisional Irish Republican Army (PIRA)
The Islamic Group (IG)
see Al-Gama'at al-Islamiyya
Jaish-e-Mohammed (JEM) (Army of Mohammed)
Islamic Jihad
see Al-Jihad
Islamic Jihad for the Liberation of Palestine
see Hizballah (Party of God)
Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU)
Japanese Red Army (JRA)
Al-Jihad
Jihad Group
see Al-Jihad
Kach and Kahane Chai
Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK)
Lashkar-e-Tayyiba (LT) (Army of the Righteous)
The Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE)
Loyalist Volunteer Force (LVF)
The Mujahedin-e Khalq Organization (MEK or MKO)
Muslim Iranian Students Society
see The Mujahedin-e Khalq Organization (MEK or MKO)
National Council of Resistance
see The Mujahedin-e Khalq Organization (MEK or MKO)
National Liberation Army (ELN)--Colombia
The National Liberation Army of Iran
see The Mujahedin-e Khalq Organization (MEK or MKO)
New People's Army (NPA)
Orange Volunteers (OV)
Organization of the Oppressed on Earth
see Hizballah (Party of God)
Palestine Islamic Jihad (PIJ)
Palestine Liberation Front (PLF)
People Against Gangsterism and Drugs (PAGAD)
The People's Mujahedin of Iran (PMOI)
see The Mujahedin-e Khalq Organization (MEK or MKO)
Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP)
Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command (PFLP-GC)
Al-Qaida
Real IRA (RIRA)
Red Hand Defenders (RHD)
Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC)
Revolutionary Justice Organization
see Hizballah (Party of God)
Revolutionary Organization 17 November (17 November)
Revolutionary Organization of Socialist Muslims
see Abu Nidal Organization (ANO)
Revolutionary People's Liberation Party/Front (DHKP/C)
Revolutionary People's Struggle (ELA)
Revolutionary United Front (RUF)
Sangillan Force
see The Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE)
Sendero Luminoso (Shining Path, SL)
Talaa'al-Fateh
see Al-Jihad
True IRA
see Real IRA (RIRA)
Tupac Amaru Revolutionary Movement (MRTA)
United Self-Defense Forces/Group of Colombia (AUC)
World Tamil Association (WTA)
see The Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE)
World Tamil Movement (WTM)
see The Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE)
Groups Listed in Prior Editions of Patterns of Global Terrorism.
3rd October Organization
see Armenian Secret Army for the Liberation of Armenia (ASALA)
15 May Organization
Algerian Terrorism
Armenian Secret Army for the Liberation of Armenia (ASALA)
Al-'Asifa
see Al-Fatah
Chukaku-Ha (Nucleus or Middle Core Faction)
Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine (DFLP)
Al-Fatah
Force 17
Irish Republican Army (IRA)
Jamaat ul-Fuqra
Khmer Rouge
Lautaro Popular Rebel Forces (FRPL)
see Lautaro Youth Movement (MJL)
Lautaro Youth Movement (MJL)
Manuel Rodriguez Patriotic Front (FPMR)
Morazanist Patriotic Front (FPM)
National Liberation Army (ELN) - Bolivia / Nestor Paz Zamora Commission (CNPZ)
The Orly Group
see Armenian Secret Army for the Liberation of Armenia (ASALA)
Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO)
Party of Democratic Kampuchea
see Khmer Rouge
Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-Special Command (PFLP-SC)
Popular Struggle Front (PSF)
Provisional Irish Republican Army (PIRA)
see Irish Republican Army (IRA)
Provos
see Irish Republican Army (IRA)
Puka Inti (Sol Rojo, Red Sun)
Red Army Faction (RAF)
Red Brigades (BR)
Sikh Terrorism
Sol Rojo
see Puka Inti (Sol Rojo, Red Sun)
Tupac Katari Guerrilla Army (EGTK)
Al Ummah
United Popular Action Movement (MAPU/L)
see Lautaro Youth Movement (MJL)
Zviadists
:=) Gary Swancey
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