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Is the housing boom about to bust? Sellers are slashing prices at levels not seen since before the pandemic amid rapidly cooling market as hedge fund manager of The Big Short fame warns 'It's like watching a plane crash'
More than 20% of homes for sale in Philadelphia, Boise, New Orleans and Sacramento had their prices reduced in April
Michael Burry, of 'The Big Short' fame, compared the slowing housing market to 2008 saying it's like 'watching a plane crash'
This week mortgage rates reached a 13-year high of more than 5%
One economist said that house prices could drop as much as 40% during the summer of 2022 https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10862005/Sellers-slashing-prices-levels-not-seen-pandemic-market-rapidly-cools.html
POINT ROBERTS Great Real Estate Watch; Chinese from Hong Kong and China etc. buying up Point Roberts, WA
an investment of $475K+ may give them a greencard and immigration
rights needed to move in full time to stay and work in US -
(vs. Canada require about $2mil. + for immigration)
They bought the golf course, the Marina and developed farms -
Ex.....
Bald Eagle Golf Club
Unlisted
555 views Jul 12, 2019
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNYgIhD_RdU
5 Quick & Easy Ways to Get Started Investing In Real Estate....
https://dailyinvestingadvice.com/5-super-easy-ways-to-get-started-investing-in-real-estate/
REAL ESTATE EBOOK FREE THROUGH 11/02!
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By the end of the book, you will be in an excellent position to take further action toward earning passive income from real estate. It's currently free for a limited amount of time!If you enjoyed the book and received value and benefit from it, I would like to ask you to leave a review. Feel free to share it with anyone who you think might be interested. Thank you very much and I wish you all best with your investments.
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Home owner in Las Vegas looking for investor to purchase home for current owner to rent- Purchased home for $ 225,000.00 now selling at short sale for only $125,000. Can afford Rental npayment of $1100.00 a month. Bank of America Loan mod is wanting me to sign a new loan for $ 250,000.00 with payments of $1760.00 a month, that I just cant afford. I am looking for an Investor who can buy the house and lease or rent it back to me, at a modest but secure rate with no down time. We put a lot into this property, and I cant believe That were losing it. Please call 702 672 4741
or email us at felipejmartinez3563@yahoo.com for more info.
Thank You
CREA approves new MLS rules
Move aims to block Competition Bureau challenge; consumer will now be able to pay an agent a flat fee to list on the MLS
Steve Ladurantaye
Globe and Mail Update
Published on Monday, Mar. 22, 2010 2:36PM EDT
Last updated on Monday, Mar. 22, 2010 6:13PM EDT
.The Canadian Real Estate Association approved changes Monday that will give those who buy or sell their homes on its listing service more power to handle portions of the transaction on their own, but it was not enough to satisfy the Competition Commissioner.
In a move to cut off a challenge by the Competition Bureau, which feels the current system is too restrictive because anyone listing on the Multiple Listing Service must employ an agent through the entire process, the association's members voted at its annual general meeting in Ottawa to loosen its own rules.
Now, a consumer will be able to pay an agent a flat fee – zero is not an option – to list on the MLS, where about 90 per cent of all home sales are done. Agents must now pass along a seller's home phone number, if the seller chooses, directly to an interested buyer if asked.
“Through the proactive clarifications of the existing rules, CREA believes the concerns raised by the Competition Bureau are fully addressed,” the organization said in a news release. “At the same time, these amendments ensure the continued integrity of MLS systems and the accuracy of information on board MLS systems that Canadians have come to trust.”
The bureau disagreed, saying the change didn't go far enough because CREA could still change the rules at any point and place more restrictions on anyone who tried to offer innovative services.
CREA wouldn't provide further comment, with its legal counsel stating it would rather wait for the case to go before the Competition Tribunal. The association's president, Dale Ripplinger, said the changes “wouldn't make sense to anyone who wasn't a real estate agent,” before abruptly calling off a news conference.
The vote was seen as a way for Canada's real estate sales industry to satisfy concerns raised by the Competition Bureau, which has filed charges with the Competition Tribunal alleging the real estate association makes it impossible for any of its members to offer consumers fee-based services for particular portions of a transaction, such as listing on the MLS or negotiating a sale price.
This leads to higher prices for consumers, the Bureau says.
The proposed changes were a key pillar in the real estate organization's defence before the Tribunal. The association must submit its response to the charges by March 25 and the organization hoped a strong vote from its members on the key issues troubling the Competition Bureau would be enough to have the charges set aside.
The MLS has operated for more than 50 years and only registered agents are allowed to list homes on the service. The MLS trademark is owned by CREA, and each real estate board operates the service in its region. While anyone can sell their home on their own, having a listing on the service is seen as an integral part of achieving the best sales price.
A CREA spokesperson said the changes would be implemented “as soon as it is reasonable at each local board.”
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/crea-approves-new-mls-rules/article1508276/
fwd: What really took place at the bank…?
I'm going to delve into something here that has never, ever crossed the mind of Joe Six Pack from the time of his birth to his untimely death….other than the fact Joe was constantly in debt.
Joe goes to the bank one day as planned, to meet with the loans officer.
Upon entering Mary Stein’s office she knows what Joe is looking for.
Joe seats him self and Mary proceeds to tell Joe his income to debt service ratio allows him to qualify for a $240,000.00 mortgage loan.
Joe beams as he looks around her office at the ads portraying the possibilities of getting a bank loan.
Joe thanks her for the info confirming his application and leaves to go to his real estate broker.
Four days later Joe makes an offer to purchase and after some negotiations settles on a firm price.
Joe heads back to the bank to see Mary Stein where she pulls out some forms for Joe to sign and then slide them back across Mary’s desk.
Joe is not aware that he has just given the bank an asset item, a loan as it were, in order the bank may have a deposit on hand, in order to fund the check they will send to the people Joe purchased the house from.
Joe is completely oblivious to bank rules and policy that forbids the bank from loaning any of its depositor’s funds (liabilities) to him.
Joe is completely oblivious to bank rules and policy that forbids the bank from loaning any of its own money (profits) or credit to him. (no bank has credit, only liabilities to shareholders).
Joe is completely oblivious to bank rules, policy and Generally Accepted Accounting Procedures that show Joe is the only party to come to the bank with any funds in order to issue a check to the seller.
Joe is completely oblivious to bank rules, policy and Generally Accepted Accounting Procedures that show the only thing that took place was an exchange of asset items, neither of which were legal tender at the time of negotiation.
Yet, Joe pays…and pays, for maybe forty years with compound interest, setting Joe up for life with a ball and chain on his ankle attached to the bank.
At the close of the term and the bank receiving final instalment, Joe is eager to have his mortgage burning party.
Joe finds in his mail box a letter from the bank along with a "copy" of his mortgage stating the bank has discharged his obligation to the bank.
Joe is completely oblivious to bank rules and policy as to the meaning of the words; “discharge”, “copy” and “obligation”.
Joe is completely oblivious to the fact that according to law, a copy is a “forgery” and therefore, the bank retains the original instrument of indebtedness (title), but, not in its original form.
Joe is completely oblivious to the fact that by doing so, the bank retains “legal title” (registered owner) to his home and as the abstract from land titles office indicates that Joe has retained “equity title” as beneficial owner, a tenant.
That evening Joe gets drunk as he and his wife along with some friends burn the worthless piece of paper Joe received from the bank.
Joe is completely oblivious to the fact that according to the generally accepted rules of psychiatry and contract law, he is an utter fool and idiot….through no fault of his own.
Joe was taught something to the contrary in school, at home and in business.
Now….
what would happen, if Joe woke up…..by the millions and called the banker out on this one?
And sent these to his banker as an offer to settle the above referenced matter?
Effectively Dealing With Creditors
Letter Number 1:
For use with just about any type of financial
obligation issued by a licensed financial institution
mortgage, credit card, bank loan etc. (Does not work
if the loan is from a “private” source.)
From: ____________________
Date: ____________________
To: ____________________
Re: ___(Credit Card, bank loan, mortgage,
etc.) Account Number:___________
To Whom it may concern:
I would like to make arrangements to settle
the above referenced matter. Please provide me with
your statement of the amount owing as of ___(pick
date 2 weeks out for example)___, together with your
assurance that you will accept payment in direct and
immediate exchange for the original instrument of
indebtedness in its original form.
Thank you very much.
___________________________
by: authorized party
Letter Number 2A:
For use with adjustments in most cases when
you receive the initial response from Letter 1 above,
where they confirm an amount owing and provide
some comment that the “statements” or some other
lame documentation they provide are evidence of the
obligation.
From: ____________________
Date: ____________________
To: ____________________
Re: ___(Credit Card, bank loan, mortgage,
etc.) Account Number:___________
To Whom it may concern:
Thank you for your letter of ________,
wherein you confirm my outstanding balance as
requested.
Also, you have confirmed that the
“statements that _____(name of institution here)____
sends are your evidence of your indebtedness to the
Bank”. (This is a quote from actual bank letter and
wording may vary slightly, but should where possible
be quoted from their letter.)
Accordingly, would you please confirm that
the Agreement that exists between us which ratifies
this specific application of these “statements” and
confirms me as the party obligated to the Bank will
be delivered to me as the original instrument of
indebtedness in its original form, in exchange for
payment in full of my obligation as may be
referenced by these “statements”.
Sincerely,
___________________________
by: authorized party
Letter Number 2B:
For use with adjustments in other cases when
you receive the initial response from Letter 1 above,
where they confirm an amount owing and simply
ignore the second part of the request.
From: ____________________
Date: ____________________
To: ____________________
Re: ___(Credit Card, bank loan, mortgage,
etc.) Account Number:__________
To Whom it may concern:
Thank you for your letter of ________,
wherein you confirm my outstanding balance as
requested.
It is apparent that you have overlooked or
ignored my request to confirm that you would accept
full payment of the alleged obligation from me in
consideration of your delivery to me of the original
instrument of indebtedness in its original form.
Accordingly, unless I receive your written
confirmation that you will accept payment from me
in consideration of your delivery to me of the original
instrument of indebtedness in its original form on or
before ____(pick a date like 15 days from sending the
letter)____, I will conclude that you are either unable
or unwilling to comply, and I will thereafter consider
the matter between us to have been legally and
financially settled.
Sincerely,
___________________________
by: authorized party
Letter Number 3:
For use with adjustments in other cases when
you receive NO response from Letter 1 above.
From: ____________________
Date: ____________________
To: ____________________
Re: ___(Credit Card, bank loan, mortgage,
etc.) Account Number:__________
To Whom it may concern:
I have sent you my request as of
___(date)___ for you to confirm the balance owing
on the above referenced matter and for you to
confirm that you would accept full payment of the
alleged obligation from me in consideration of your
delivery to me of the original instrument of
indebtedness in its original form.
It is apparent that you have overlooked or
ignored my request. Accordingly, unless I receive
your written confirmation that you will accept
payment from me in consideration of your delivery to
me of the original instrument of indebtedness in its
original form on or before ____(pick a date like 15
days from sending the letter)____, I will conclude
that you are either unable or unwilling to comply, and
I will thereafter consider the matter between us to
have been legally and financially settled.
Sincerely,
___________________________
by: authorized party
NOTES:
1. The concepts outlined in these documents
will also work for most Court Orders to pay. Simply
change the wording such that you are requesting
confirmation that the court will accept payment in
consideration of their delivery to you of the Original
Order, as duly executed by ___(Judge name)___ and
in its original form (which is the original instrument
of indebtedness).
2. This process will not work with private
lenders because in most cases they can and will
produce the original instrument of indebtedness.
3. If you receive any communication from a
collection agency or lawyer representing the financial
institution, you should follow the concepts outlined
in the above letters but ONLY in direct
correspondence with the financial institution.
NEVER respond to a lawyer or collection agency
with anything other than the concept outlined in
Letter 4 that follows.
Letter Number 4:
For use with when terminating
communication from financial institution’s lawyer or
collection agent.
From: ____________________
Date: ____________________
To: ____________________
Re: ___(Credit Card, bank loan, mortgage,
etc.) Account Number:___________
To Whom it may concern:
I confirm that I have received a written
communication from you dated ___(date)___
wherein you make reference to the above captioned
matter.
It is apparent that you are acting on the
presumption that some relationship that you may
have with ___(name of bank)___ , is in some way
related to me. I am not a party to this implied
relationship you have with ___(name of bank)___,
either directly, indirectly or by means of any tacit
consent.
Accordingly, I do not understand how to
respond to you inasmuch as I am unaware of any
contractual relationship between us.
As a courtesy and because you may find it
helpful, I have attached recent correspondence
between myself and ___(name of bank)___, wherein
I have repeatedly offered to settle the mater between
myself and ___(name of bank)___.
Sincerely,
___________________________
by: authorized party
c.c file
Letter Number 5:
Alternate for use with when terminating
communication from financial institution’s lawyer or
collection agent.
From: ____________________
Date: ____________________
To: ____________________
Re: ___(Credit Card, bank loan, mortgage,
etc.) Account Number: __________
To Whom it may concern:
I confirm that I have received a written
communication from you addressed to
_____________ and dated ____________ wherein
you make reference to the above captioned matter.
It is apparent that either:
i) you are acting on the presumption
that some relationship that you may have with
__(name of bank)__, is in some way related to me,
which if such presumption is the case, I confirm that I
am not a party to this implied relationship you have
with __(name of bank)__, either directly, indirectly or
by means of any tacit consent, and accordingly, I do
not understand how to respond to you inasmuch as I
am unaware of any contractual relationship between
us; or
ii) you have entered into a contractual
relationship inclusive of evidence of consideration
paid to or agreed to be paid to __(name of bank)__,
which contractual relationship has caused you to
become the legal holder in due course of an alleged
obligation between ____________ and __(name of
bank)__.
If indeed you have entered into such a
contractual relationship with __(name of bank)__, as
set forth in clause ii) above, then I hereby confirm
that I accept your offer to reduce the amount of the
alleged obligation from $______ to $______; and I
confirm that I would like to make arrangements for
settlement of the above referenced matter
immediately upon you providing me with your
written and legally binding assurance that you will
accept payment in full settlement of this alleged
obligation in direct and immediate exchange for the
original instrument of indebtedness in its original
form that you must now be holding pursuant to the
aforesaid contractual arrangement between you and
__(name of bank)__.
Sincerely,
___________________________
by: authorized party
NOTE: underlined portion in last paragraph
may be omitted if not applicable.
What is right and wrong DOES matter in life:
All the money in existence in our monetary systems
has been borrowed at interest from a bank. When all
currency in the system is borrowed at interest, there
is NO MATHEMATICAL WAY to pay one penny of
interest without pushing some people off the table via
cancellation of their obligations to pay principal
through bankruptcy, or through the kind of
cancellation programs offered.
Reform must come from the side of
dissatisfied customers, because the lenders have NO
motivation to move away from their current position
of power and influence. If people who favour the
customer over the lender are able to use the law to
stimulate change, any imbalance created by giving
people their real estate for free will best correct itself
through a change in banking laws and practice, NOT
through perpetuation of the present system of
GRAND THEFT of the entire wealth of society by
the banking cartels.
Under the present system, someone HAS to
get something for NOTHING. There is no other way.
Either the bankers continue to get interest payments
for NOTHING at risk, or customers get free real
estate after "borrowing" money that was created out
of NOTHING and having the "loan" either cancelled
for fraud, or discharged in bankruptcy, or the lender
gets the real estate from the customer for NOTHING,
following a foreclosure on the loan that was created
out of NOTHING. The answer is to stop basing bank
lending on NOTHING but, a fraudulent exchange.
[from an email forwarded to moi -- the writer/author is Jack Harper - kissin' cousin of Canada's Prime Minister Stephen Harper]
CAVEAT EMPTOR
West Coast realtors [British Columbia, Canada] -- they got a habit of creating MULTI-offers on a piece of real estate.
how do they do it ?
a) they place on MLS that the owner/s will only look at offers on a certain date which pits realtors against realtors [and their clients]
and/or...
b) if there are, let's say -- 3 pieces of properties on sale in the same block for let's say...$430K -- the new listing would be placed UNDER $400 [$399K] and of course this wets the unsuspecting buyers to go ABOVE the asking price.
...and now you guys know how you get conned.
fw: Original Instrument
“The original instrument of indebtedness in its original unadulterated form.”
Does anyone think they know what that is?
I have found that not 1 in 100 know for certain.
One thing is certain.
Every single Court of Queens Bench justice knows exactly what it is, for absolute certain.
So does every high level banker.
The Registrar (the notary) knows it.
The lawyers know it, too.
They all know that in a court of Law & Equity only the instrument described above has full and complete standing in the court.
It is the only document worthy of bringing a legitimate action in an International, federal, provincial or municipal court.
It is the paper with your DNA on it and no additional ink on its front or back.
The only exception to this rule is that, both parties are in agreement to waive their right to demand production of “the original instrument of indebtedness in its original unadulterated form” thereby, accepting a copy (forgery).
Another rule applies insomuch as that; the Plaintiff is obligated to prove they were in possession of “the original instrument of indebtedness in its original unadulterated form” at the time of filing the foreclosure.
If one exerts his/her right to demand the production of documents for authentication from the Plaintiff or Plaintiffs counsel then, they had better produce or head for the door.
It only stands to reason and the rule of law that, without the said instrument being returned, no man may ever pay his debts.
And Jesus Christ had something to say about that.
Regards,
JackieG
[JackieG is Jack Harper -- kissin' cousin of Canada's Prime Minister Stephen Harper]
Hey, Ned...
So what are you currently buying?
I just found this board. I am a full time investor and like disscusions on forums like this. Sadly this doesn't look like it gets much traffic. I hope hope to see moer traffic here.
Ned Carey
http://baltimorerealestateinvestingblog.com/
When you get ready to buy, follow the REO (bank owned props) market. That's where you will find your deals...IMO.
Well, the best info I can find (as I am approved for loan) is that a loan for investment property will cost 1 percent more than the fixed rate for an owner occupied loan. The only way I have been able to get this info is by actually getting approved for a loan. These loan companies keep this info way too close to the chest. I don't trust them one bit. I am not actively searching for investment property right now. The prices keep on falling, and I'm doing too good in the stock market right now.
Loki, it's a fact: Some banks WILL take less than asking price for REOs. As every bank is different in how it handles them, I can't say for sure about that 90 day rule.
I haven't been too interested in REOs in the past because you have to get a new loan to buy them. And I would rather just take over an existing loan.
But prices for the REOs are really coming down. They are usually the cheapest properties out there...at least from what I've seen in my area. Especially if these places need work. So I will probably be putting some offers in soon.
Loki, if you can get pre-approved (not just pre-qualified) for a loan, you can start putting in low offers on REO's. Something will stick and you could end up with a great deal.
bry
Bry - do you know if banks are taking offers less than asking price for REO properties? I read some where that they usally don't cut the price much until they have had it for sale for at least 90 days. do you buy reo's?
TIA LOKI
Hi Bry - no, I don't know what that is. Every once in a while I'm seeing a deal pop up, I'm thinking that I would like to pre qualify for a loan and just be ready for anything. I'm certainly in no hurry, and I want to find the best rate possible. I spent some time chatting with a loan agent on line today from Ditech and I'll be damned if I could get him to give me a ballpark rate for an investment property. I just don't trust mortgage brokers. I had excellent luck with the loan on my house 7 years ago, that was an online company, but I can't remember the name of that place!
loki, are you familiar with the "Subject To" method for aquiring properties? No need to get a new loan as long as the seller is motivated. Simply take over the existing loan...assumable or not.
bry
Loki, and don't forget the REOs. Sometimes the banks are too stuborn to deal before the foreclosure (short sale), but will dump a property once they have possesion for a few months.
yes Bry, it will be a rental. I'll take a look at lendingtree. I feel the same, I think prices will soften a bit more. I also don't expect to catch the bottom. I proved that with my stock picks as of late LOL.... I do know there are some killer deals out there to be had. A co-worker picked up a house to live in Brentwood, CA. Very exclusive gated area. They topped out at 780K, he got one that was forclosed, the bank was in it for 550k, sold short to him for 450k. I'm looking to find something easy to rent that will break even or better. Wanting to start small <200k for sure.
Loki, so you're wanting to get a rental, is that correct? If so, you might want to wait just a bit more. I still see prices coming down a bit.
Of course, I don't know your area that well. I'm in Monterey County.
Regarding a loan, you MUST shop around. I recently used Lendingtree for a loan and ultimately got a good deal. You gotta be cautious though, as they all seem to overpromise and underdeliver.
Let us know how it turns out.
bry
Real Estate Help Wanted
I am thinking of getting my first rental as prices here have fallen to the point where I think I may be able to pick up a place and actually break even or maybe a little better each month. I am in the North Bay area in California, I see a 3/2 condo that according to propertyshark went for 240k at one time, now it's less than 150k. It's less than the couple of 2/2 baths for sale in the same complex. 3 bedroom apt's are renting for 1000 -1200 per month.
Taxes are killing me, I need some relief. A couple of questions? where can I get the best loan rate? Is DITEK any good? How can I find a RE agent that is really up on digging in this market? My Father In law is an agent in Las Vegas, he will send referal & give us referal $ back, I just don't know who to send referal to. any advice for me? thanks for your .2
LOKI
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Hanover Companies
Flippers Fuel Foreclosures
Thursday August 30, 4:29 pm ET
By Les Christie, CNNMoney.com staff writer
Flippers and other speculators investing in single-family homes helped drive up prices in many hot housing markets during the boom. Now they're contributing heavily to mortgage delinquencies in several of those markets.
ADVERTISEMENT
Defaults in non-owner occupied houses are driving defaults in four of the states with the fastest rising default rates in the nation, according to a report released Thursday by the Mortgage Bankers Association.
Consumers shun adjustable-rate mortgages.
"Defaults are on the rise in most parts of the country, but...it is not always the case of a homeowner losing his or her home," Doug Duncan, the MBA's chief economist, said in a statement, "but [it's] often the case of an investor gambling on a continued increase in home values and losing that gamble."
Several sun-belt states were magnets for real estate speculators during the home-price boom. Coastal California led the early charge, but as prices there raced ahead of affordability, many investors abandoned those markets for Central Valley cities as well as Las Vegas, Phoenix and other Arizona towns.
Florida drew droves of investors from the Northeast, who spurred a rash of condo development in Miami, Ft. Lauderdale and other coastal towns. Single family home prices were also driven up in towns all over the Sunshine State.
Mortgage applications slip
As of June 30, in Nevada, 32 percent of all prime mortgages in default and 24 percent of subprime defaults were on non-owner occupied properties, according to the MBA. The numbers for Arizona were 26 percent prime and 18 percent subprime. In California, they were 21 percent and 15 percent respectively.
The default rates in Florida for non-owner occupied homes were 25 percent for prime loans and 14 percent for subprime ones.
In the rest of the nation, non-owners accounted for just 13 percent of prime loan defaults and 11 percent of subprime.
Foreclosure rescue scams
"California, Nevada, Arizona and Florida were among the states with the fastest home price appreciation over the last five years. This...attracted both speculators and home builders, a volatile combination that led to an over-supply of homes that was beyond the capacity of the local populations to support," Duncan said.
"When this over-supply became apparent and prices began to fall, many of these investors simply walked away from their mortgages."
In Nevada and Arizona, 29 percent of all the prime mortgage loans written in 2005 were for non-owner occupied home purchases. In California, it was 14 percent and in Florida, a whopping 32 percent, according to the MBA.
The subprime figures for non-owner occupied home purchases were 14 percent in Nevada and Arizona, 15 percent in Florida and 7 percent in California.
http://biz.yahoo.com/cnnm/070830/083007_flippers_fuel_foreclosures.html?.v=2&.pf=loans
That's what I'm thinking,I would be fine with closing 270k/275k, but nothing over 280k by any means (95% of 295k is 281k - with the market hurtin' a little, I refuse to pay more than the average condo in the building).
sounds good - we'll talk later
thanks btw!!
recolect, my "outside" perspective is still the same: buyers have all the leverage. Since you're the buyer, you can call the shots...assuming your market is like most of the others: lousy.
How long has this condo been on the market? The longer the better for you. If you are not comfortable with the $250k range, then offer lower. Don't worry about offending anyone, just do it. But make sure your offer is stong, i.e, have your loan already in place.
Shoot me your email in a private message. I'll send you my number in case you want to do some major brain-picking. I don't mind.
Private messages are free during happy hour Friday after market close.
Keep us posted.
congrats-good to hear......
do you buy 2-flats or 3-flats and rent them out? Do you buy houses and rent them out or just flip them?
wanted to get in the renting business in the next few year
tia
ty btw-never replied to your post:)
Let me ask this again.......
I first asked some questions and there were some people on this board that provided some good info - thanks!! I wanted to "re-ask" this question since we are a month or two down the road and ready to pull the trigger within a month. Below is a post a posted on another board at iHub and was promptly deleted, sorry for the re-hash but again trying to get peoples thoughts on this board - once again any ideas or thoughts are greatly appreciated - tia
I will be buying a house in about a month and need some guidance. This is my first home purchase and am a bit nervous pulling the trigger with the housing market is in the mud. I am buying a condo in Chicago (where throughout the US, Chicago typically has a stable market). The asking price is 295k - there has been 1 owner, bought in '99 for 195k (newer building). The area is nice with money still going into the village to "vamp" it up (commercial, etc) - It is a nice place but i feel 295k is too much - granted for two years other condos in that building have sold for 95% of their asking price which puts us at about 281k (which i still think is too much). I could see 240k-260k but I don't see that happeneing (not even sure why). I just dont want the home depreciate in value over the next few years.Dont get me wrong, the place is really nice (underground garage parking, gas/heat/water included in assesment, high ceilings, 2bed/2bth).... but just think its too much. Other buildings around there typically sell for 97% their value fwiw. After seeing about 20 places in the same area, this one gave me "that feeling" once i walked into it... nice layout (does need about 15k put into it to updated kitchen/hardwood floors, paint), but real nice.
Sooooo, what I'm trying to say is I need some help/guidance/thoughts/suggestions... anything to help out. I do realize no one here know the area at all (in part to me saying "Chicago" and not the actaul 'burb'), but I'm trying to get an "outside" perspective of the total housing market and thoughts on my example stated above.
Any help or guidance is greatly apprecaited
thanks to all in advance for replies
Dave
Hi - no worries...
thanks for the bullet points - I'm actually looking in an entirely diff area than before lol
The origional place was about a 30 year old building, older everything inside and out... looking into an "up and coming" area now with newer buildings. The closing price would be about the same and I would have all SS appliances, and jsut newer things inside and out - about 1/2 block away from the Metra that goes straight downtown and grocery stores, restaurants, etc... the 1,3 and 10 year appreciation is slightly higher than the origional place...
thanks again
hi... sorry Ive been away for a while. welcome to the board.
my personal advice to a first time buyer:
1) take you time, look around alot
2) dont buy new
3) neighborhood, neighborhood, neighborhood
4) get educated on mortgage loans, avoid interest only and negative amortization and find out about prepayment penalties
good luck.
Northern side here, looking at condos. Yea, noticing a lot of "price changes" on the MLS site i loggin to
You wanna sell yours for a 50% discount? lol ;)
recolect, where at in Chicago? SW burbs are holding up very nicely.. haven't lost much if any value... NW burbs taking a minor hit with a lot for sale
i'm in nw burbs trying to sell now
Day 133: FINALLY SOLD!!!
Finally sold my 4/2 investment property. Started off listing it at $685K. Ended up taking $640K. I made it into one of the best deals in the area and it still took a long time to sell.
One lesson learned: don't be greedy! There was a buyer (pre approved!) that came in just a month after listing. They offered $650K and a close within 2 weeks. I was stubborn and told my agent to try to get them up to $655K. Foolish move as they went with another house instead. Three months later I end up taking $10k less. I'll be smarter next time.
Next up: Advertising blitz, and hitting the courthouse to find all the NODs. I would like to get two more properties before the end of the summer. I now have a great hard money lender lined up to fund all my projects.
We'll see what happens.
bry
For sure I would use an experienced agent who knows the area I'm interested in.
It might be awkward to tell your friend's sister that you might be using someone else, but this is a very big purchase. You can't afford to make a mistake.
BTW, I rarely use an agent when buying. It's just easier to get a better deal if you negotiate directly with the seller....especially if they are motivated to sell.
thanks for the response-on a fixer uppper, is it a good idea to incorporate the renovation costs into the mortgage?
Also i'm leaning towards a new realtor, this one doesnt seem like she knows too much in general and about the area i want to move into... kinda a friends sister, so feel a little obligated to go through her... although i dont want to
Have everything financially inline - preapproval, etc. but just needing to do research. Ideas in how much to "start a bid at" when offering a price? I've heard about 8% below the offer is a good start.
any help/suggestions much appreciated.
thanks
Recolect, I love your idea of buying a fixer-upper. That would be a great way to start. But from a real estate investor perspective, finding a motivated seller is the most important aspect to finding a great deal.
Also important is your ability to close fast. Of course you want to take your time with inspections, etc., especially since your a first time buyer. But you still can get your financing in place ahead of time. That makes you a stronger buyer, enabling you to negotiate a lower price.
Don't know what the Chicago market is like, but over here in Monterey County, California, the market is brutal. But that is great news if you're a buyer. Buyers call all the shots here.
Keep us posted on your search efforts.
bry
hey,great board
First time homebuyer in Chicago and trying to sift through all the general stuff online for research.
Do you have any sugestions firs a first time buyer? where to start, buying a less expensive place adn fixing it up better than gettinga good place off the bat? all that stuff...
tia
Bry, not CT. Prices have been steadily dropping so the chance will come to pick up some decent deals. Right now sellers continue to reduce their prices because there is simply nobody buying. Even I'm reducing my price. It's crazy!
Tampa Florida is the hottest area right now still appreciating in value.
Please post this on your global warming board. Thanks.
Southern Ocean Loaded With Carbon Dioxide
http://news.aol.com/topnews/articles/_a/southern-ocean-loaded-with-carbon/20070518204409990001?ncid=...
Southern Ocean Loaded With Carbon Dioxide
WASHINGTON (May 19) - The Southern Ocean around Antarctica is so loaded with carbon dioxide that it can barely absorb any more, so more of the gas will stay in the atmosphere to warm up the planet, scientists reported on Thursday.
Human activity is the main culprit, said researcher Corinne Le Quere, who called the finding very alarming.
The phenomenon wasn't expected to be apparent for decades, Le Quere said in a telephone interview from the University of East Anglia in Britain.
"We thought we would be able to detect these only the second half of this century, say 2050 or so," she said. But data from 1981 through 2004 show the sink is already full of carbon dioxide. "So I find this really quite alarming."
The Southern Ocean is one of the world's biggest reservoirs of carbon, known as a carbon sink. When carbon is in a sink -- whether it's an ocean or a forest, both of which can lock up carbon dioxide -- it stays out of the atmosphere and does not contribute to global warming .
The new research, published in the latest edition of the journal Science, indicates that the Southern Ocean has been saturated with carbon dioxide at least since the 1980s.
This is significant because the Southern Ocean accounts for 15 percent of the global carbon sink, Le Quere said.
Global Warming Spurs Winds
Increased winds over the last half-century are to blame for the change, Le Quere said. These winds blend the carbon dioxide throughout the Southern Ocean, mixing the naturally occurring carbon that usually stays deep down with the human-caused carbon.
When natural carbon is brought up to the surface by the winds, it is harder for the Southern Ocean to accommodate more human-generated carbon, which comes from factories, coal-fired power plants and petroleum-powered motor vehicle exhaust.
The winds themselves are caused by two separate human factors.
First, the human-spawned ozone depletion in the upper atmosphere over the Southern Ocean has created large changes in temperature throughout the atmosphere, Le Quere said.
Second, the uneven nature of global warming has produced higher temperatures in the northern parts of the world than in the south, which has also made the winds accelerate in the Southern Ocean.
"Since the beginning of the industrial revolution the world's oceans have absorbed about a quarter of the 500 gigatons (500 billion tons) of carbon emitted into the atmosphere by humans," Chris Rapley of the British Antarctic Survey said in a statement.
"The possibility that in a warmer world the Southern Ocean -- the strongest ocean sink -- is weakening is a cause for concern," Rapley said.
Another sign of warming in the Antarctic was reported on Tuesday by NASA , which found vast areas of snow melted on the southern continent in 2005 in a process that may accelerate invisible melting deep beneath the surface.
2007: The world population surpasses 6.6 billion as the majority of people now live in cities than in rural areas,
changing patterns of land use.
I have a friend who has been in real estate for ages and he recommended the area outside of St. George Utah. But I think that many areas in California area still a good buy in the next few years as things soften up as long as you can wait til the market turns up again.
Sara, which areas of the country do you feel would be good investment areas? I mostly do flips in California, but have recently been thinking about doing some buy-and-hold stuff in other areas.
An agent from McAllen, Texas just sent me a sales package playing up that area as ideal for long term RE investments. Of course, much DD is needed.
bry
true. real estate takes patience and long term outlook. I'm guessing those who are investing largely in penny stocks are looking more for get rich quick schemes.
I'd love to see more on this board and I wish I had the resources to be purchasing investment properties right now... the next year or two is the perfect time.
Perhaps due to the overall sickly market. Even lousy investors made money in the hot market. Now it's just death. Market where I live is brutal now. However, for an investor, that means more motivated sellers...a LOT more. You just have to choose very carefully.
As soon as I'm out of my current project (next few weeks), I'll be looking for at least two more by end of year. Normally have done one at a time, but I finally have a great hard money lender that will supply funds for each of my projects with few questions asked. And he'll defer interest payments until the house is sold.
I guess ihub members aren't big on real estate. I wish there were more real estate boards and conversations. Oh well. Thats why I go to richdad.com.
Just today got my house in escrow again...hope it sticks this time. Such a lousy market we're in over here. Had to discount the property again and again to get it sold.
Overall it will be a good deal as I was able to get the place pretty cheap and only had to put about $15k into the rehab.
Also getting ready to begin my next advertising campaign to hunt down my next property.
A Word of Advice During a Housing Slump: Rent
I still believe we’re going back to 2003 levels! Maybe in 08-09’?
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/11/realestate/11leonhardt.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
A promotional spot for the National Association of Realtors came on the radio the other day. The spot, introduced as something called “Newsmakers,” was supposed to sound like a news report, with the association’s president offering real estate advice.
“This is the best time to buy,” Pat Vredevoogd Combs, the president, said cheerfully. “There’s a lot of inventory in the marketplace. Interest rates are low. It’s a wonderful tax deduction.”
By the Realtors’ way of thinking, it’s always a good time to buy. Homeownership, they argue, is a way to achieve the American dream, save on taxes and earn a solid investment return all at the same time.
That’s how it has worked out for much of the last 15 years. But in a stark reversal, it’s now clear that people who chose renting over buying in the last two years made the right move. In much of the country, including large parts of the Northeast, California, Florida and the Southwest, recent home buyers have faced higher monthly costs than renters and have lost money on their investment in the meantime. It’s almost as if they have thrown money away, an insult once reserved for renters.
Most striking, perhaps, is the fact that prices may not yet have fallen far enough for buying to look better than renting today, except for people who plan to stay in a home for many years.
With the spring moving season under way, The New York Times has done an analysis of buying vs. renting in every major metropolitan area. The analysis includes data on housing costs and looks at different possibilities for the path of home prices in coming years.
It found that even though rents have recently jumped, the costs that come with buying a home — mortgage payments, property taxes, fees to real estate agents — remain a lot higher than the costs of renting. So buyers in many places are basically betting that home prices will rise smartly in the near future.
Over the next five years, which is about the average amount of time recent buyers have remained in their homes, prices in the Los Angeles area would have to rise more than 5 percent a year for a typical buyer there to do better than a renter. The same is true in Phoenix, Las Vegas, the New York region, Northern California and South Florida. In the Boston and Washington areas, the break-even point is about 4 percent.
“House prices have to fall more before housing becomes a clear buy again,” says Mark Zandi, chief economist of Moody’s Economy.com, a research company that helped conduct the analysis. “These markets aren’t as overvalued as they were a year ago or two years ago, but they’re still unfriendly. And that’s one of the reasons the market is still soft — people realize it’s not a bargain.”
There is obviously no way to know what home prices will do in the next few years. But there are two big reasons to doubt the real estate boosters who insist that it’s once again a great time to buy.
The first is history. After the last big run-up in house prices, in the 1980s, a long slump followed. In the New York area, prices peaked in early 1989 and then fell 9 percent over the next three years, according to government data. (Adjusted for inflation, the drop was much bigger.) Not until 1998 did prices pass their earlier peak.
Keep in mind that the 2000-5 boom was even bigger than the ’80s boom and that house prices on the coasts, according to the official numbers at least, have fallen only slightly so far. So it is hard to imagine that prices will rise 5 percent a year, or another 28 percent in all, over the next five years.
The second reason for skepticism is that buying has never been quite as beneficial as Realtors — and mortgage brokers, home builders and everybody else who makes money off home purchases — have made it out to be. Buyers have to pay property taxes on top of their mortgage, while renters have the taxes included in their monthly rent bill. Buyers also face thousands of dollars in closing costs (and, in Manhattan, co-op charges). Renters, meanwhile, can invest what they would have spent on closing costs and a down payment in the stock market, which hasn’t exactly delivered a bad return over the last 20 years.
And that famous mortgage-interest tax deduction? Yes, it reduces the borrowing costs that come with a mortgage, but it doesn’t eliminate them. Renters don’t face any such borrowing costs.
Almost two years ago, I interviewed a thoughtful 37-year-old man named Tchaka Owen, who happens to be a real estate agent. (Whatever the sins of the Realtors’ association, there are a lot of smart, helpful agents out there. Just remember that they have a financial interest in getting you to buy a house.)
Mr. Owen and his girlfriend, Polly Thompson, had recently moved from the Washington suburbs to the Miami area and decided to rent a two-bedroom apartment with spectacular bay views. “You can get so much more for your money, renting instead of buying,” he said at the time.
Sure enough, house prices soon began to fall in South Florida, and Mr. Owen and Ms. Thompson started to think about buying a place. A three-bedroom Mediterranean-style house that they liked was originally listed for $620,000 last year, but the price was later cut to $543,000. They bought it in June for $516,000. Since then, the market has fallen further, but Mr. Owen said he didn’t mind, because they plan to stay in the house at least a decade. “We love it,” he told me.
Clearly, there are benefits to owning a house beyond the financial, like the comfort of knowing you can stay as long as you want or can fix the roof without permission. But real estate has been sold as more than a good way to spend money. It has been sold as a can’t-miss investment. Back in 2005, near the peak of the market, the chief economist of the Realtors’ association, David Lereah, published a book called “Are You Missing the Real Estate Boom?” The can’t-miss argument was wrong then, and it may still be wrong today.
After hearing that radio spot, I called Ms. Combs and asked her whether she thought there was any chance that she and her fellow Realtors had gone a bit too far in promoting the boom. “I absolutely disagree,” she said, still cheerful. “We help people look at the marketplace.”
So I asked what advice she gave her own clients in Grand Rapids, Mich., where she is an agent. “We often tell people that they need to stay in a house five to six years for it to make sense,” she said.
That’s a nuance that didn’t make it into her “Newsmakers” interview. In Grand Rapids, where the median home costs $130,000, it is probably good advice. In a lot of other places, it may still be too optimistic.
E-mail: Leonhardt@nytimes.com
S5, I think that would be just fine. Seems we can't try to market our properties here.
Let's hear what you got.
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