InvestorsHub Logo

snow

09/29/12 12:46 PM

#198445 RE: Estimated_Prophet #198443

Estimated

As slowly as things are progressing I would not object to a buy-out at 20 dollars right now. I noted the following statement in your post:

"You hear about them picking plastic up from people and places. Apparently, someone isn't just dumping them the best feed stock for free." To me this would seem to imply considerable expenses. I wonder why three processors are to be located in New York when it is so difficult to get the waste plastic needed.

lytnup

09/29/12 1:38 PM

#198447 RE: Estimated_Prophet #198443

An interesting idea.....a few comments:

I think the foundation misses the mark a bit - IMO P2O was not about a buyout in the beginning, but may well be now (how to explain acquisitions of Pak-it and Javaco when the purpose is to highlight P2O?)

As to buyout offers: the numbers mentioned might work If Google were the suitor, but not Waste Management. @ $7, that would place a roughly $630M price tag on JBII, a premium I think Waste Management is unprepared to pay (based on what's been accomplished so far). Likewise, 1/10 success rates are fine for the federal government, but IMO would not be tolerated very long in the private marketplace. The notion of Waste Management taking a stake in JBII is very rational, and in fact I woildn't be surprised to see a JV announced with WM sometime in 2013, in light of recent management changes within JBII.

Higher buyout prices IMO would only follow if P2O establishes a year or two of operational history showing very good margins and near exponential growth in revenues. Assuming there are 100M shares out by next year, a $20 offer puts a $2B market cap on JBII; I could only see that if they had annual fuel sales at or exceeding $150M, something I don't think we'll see for many years (if at all).

For obvious self-serving reasons, I'll be rooting for your version here - by all means continue to epiphanize. It helps to soften the shock of share price weeks like the last one.

Florinda

09/29/12 3:59 PM

#198459 RE: Estimated_Prophet #198443

EP, you may be right that JB has been and is hankering after a buyout. I happen to disagree with this. Although I've never met JB, my sense is that he would like to see his name become a household word like Steve Jobs and Bill Gates. If so, that isn't going to happen with a quick buyout.

But, be that as it may, you made some comments that strike me as completely wrong and which introduce doubts that seem wholly unfounded. Here are the three lines in particular that I'm thinking of:

"I don't think there has been motivation to build several processors, or go to a RKT site."

"...the RKT deal probably was about to fall through."

"JBI is now unwillingly (to) hav(e) to setup for executing the RKT deal."

I did not go the AGM this spring (or ever). But if my recollection serves me well, those who went told us that it would take 12-14 weeks to have a processor delivered to JBI once it was ordered. They were also told it would take another 8 weeks to install them. Likewise, investors were told about the pet coke/fouling problem that needed to be resolved.

The new financing was not available until 5/15. If they immediately placed an order for some processors on that day, then 14 weeks takes us essentially to the end of August. Add another 8 weeks to that and we're at the end of October. And this assumes they placed the order immediately and that there were no logistic problems on the manufacturer's end of things. Further, we were told 12-14 weeks delivery time for "one" processor; if they ordered say four will the manufactures be able to deliver all four in 12-14 weeks? or will they have to stagger production because of limited space and man power? Given the newness of the technology and JBI's inherent inability to dictate the manufacturer's own priorities, these uncertainties seem legitimate. So when we haven't even reached management's own time frame projections, why would anyone expect announcements about these new processors being up and running already? Why speculate that the deal with RKT is over and that JBI no longer has interest in setting up processors on their sites? And why would JBI submit engineering drawings at that, what was it, Jacksonville, Florida RKT site that that journalist uncovered if JBI no longer wants to do a roll out? This Jacksonville site, moreover, at least as I understand it, is not the original site that JBI intended to install processors. At any event, my recollection is that management supposedly stated at this years AGM that they had initiated plans/actions at multiple RKT sites, not just one. The journalist from Jacksonville seems to have unwittingly confirmed this. Yet however one may interpret that tidbit of news, my main point is according to management's own time frames it's too soon to expect announcements about newly installed processors. The machines simply take a long time to make, ship, and install. So dire speculations seem out of place to me.

The fouling problem also bears on this. It doesn't make much sense to me from my armchair vantage point to install processors at distant sites when you know the existing design is flawed. Yet it's of course possible that the device(s) that will eventually do the trick are sufficiently isolatable enough to justify going ahead with the installation of processors as they become available. I would think this option is a real possibility. Yet city planners might very well demand full engineering installation prints prior to allowing an installation to begin. If so, that will necessarily put any installations on hold until the fouling/pet coke problem is resolved.

I happen to think it is fully resolvable. Yet I also think it could take a considerable amount of time. If a device/solution has to be invented and this entails the creation of just one new part, that is, a part that cannot be bought off the shelf but instead has to be made from scratch, then we're talking about a relatively slow process which could add months to the equation. Moreover, once designed and the physical device is in hand to use, it obviously has to be installed and tested. This, presumably, will all have to take place prior to ordering such new devices for the other processors. And of course the design might not work once installed which would necessarily send JB & crew back to fine-tune the idea further. Naturally, I hope it doesn't play out this way and that instead the old system JB invented to deal with the fouling/coking problem can be tweaked with already existing parts/technology. This would save a lot of time. Yet my point is, neither any of us nor the new CEO can speed up such processes. The new CEO gave his best guesstimate as to when the company would be CFP, but there are contingencies beyond his control that could make him miss that target. These, to me, are pragmatic realities. As such, they trump speculation, especially when that speculation flies in the face of the company's long standing and recently reaffirmed goal of setting up working, RKT sites.