Replies to post #30814 on Kraig Biocraft Laboratories Inc (KBLB)

[igotthemojo]

lets suppose kblb does get to the point where they can mass produce spider silk profitably and someone wants to buy that silk because they can sell it profitably....

will kblb sell to everyone who wants it?..will they have the capability of producing it and selling it to everyone who wants it?..in all the amounts they will want it?...presumably that would be an enormous quantity...

or will kblb parcell it out?...or will they only sell it to certain significant partners...

supposedly spider silk can be used in the manufacture of automobiles...will they sell to all the auto makers worldwide or will they enter into deals with certain ones who are will willing to pay a high price for exclusivity?..

and for those left out...those auto makers...those clothing manufacturers, those medical suppliers, etc etc etc...what do you suppose they will do?..look for their own method of obtaining what they need?..

my guess is yes....and it doesnt matter if they are left out or not getting the amount they want or think they can get it cheaper on their own or whatever....at some point they will go looking for someone who can supply them with what they need...and if sipder silk turns out to be all that, they will fund researchers who can get them what they need....

why will anyone continue reasearch on other methods of getting spider silk?...because someone will pay them to do it..why?.. because they want to make money...

money money money...its all about money..

[The Investing Dude]

By the time any other company comes up with something kblb will already be at advanced stages considering we could be at gen 3 by the begining of next year.

Also we already have the backing of a multi-billion dollar company
so we'll have considerable force with which to fight these other companies.

Most likely kblb will claw tooth and nail to keep others out of the technical fibers market but the spider silk protein market will be one less worth fighting for and will eventually be taken over by our competitors.

So the whole SSP debate isn't even that big of a deal.

what kblb needs to focus on is making advances as fast as possible.
They have a huge head start already and they have the best tools for getting the job done around.

Once we have confirmation of the platform worm everything is over.
we wont ever have to worry again.

[rayovac812]

<<The bacteria will be uncontrollable. They will be stuck all over the silk and be getting shipped with the product.Unfortunately for the non evolution people the bacteria would mutate.>>

I am going to ask for an example, as I know of none. These things are done in controlled environments precisely because the end game is predictable. If there are things induced to make changes, once you see what the result is, then it goes from a random/unknown result to a predictable result. That is the reality of any science. No one wants a result that is random. It must be reproducible. I can guarantee that a mutation that is random will not be good...based on what we know about random mutations. They are ALL bad. The result is ALWAYS de-evolution. Any random change in DNA code is considered a loss of information or defect. The ONLY time you see positive results, is with intelligent mutation. But maybe you could be the first one to ever give the world, an example that blows that out of the water. If you ever produce proof of (a protein for instance) simple matter getting more complex randomly, and reproduce it, well then that would turn my world upside down. Even the universe is not that chaotic. We do not see chaos, we see order. If you looked at the world today, then you would expect to see much evidence of randomized changes in information. We do not see this, we observe the opposite. So why would you expect the bacteria to mutate? KBLB, in particular Dr. Frazier, intelligently manipulated the information. If the result was going to be random, then it would not be reproducible....and it would certainly be meaningless to KBLB.

[ZincFinger]

Actually no:

RE: "IF they ever do figure out how to make SS in vats we will be out of business and the new guy would lose the profit. The bacteria will be uncontrollable. They will be stuck all over the silk and be getting shipped with the product.Unfortunately for the non evolution people the bacteria would mutate. There would be mutated versions all over china with no IP violations since it is no longer the same bacteria once it evolves a mutation."

With bacterial production, the SSP will be completely separated from the bacteria, etc. That's not the problem. The problem is the expense required to do that, PLUS the expense require to mechanically spin it IF a method can be developed to do that. (So far AmSilk has it down to a mere 100,000 Euros/kilo! A bit pricey.)

RE:"the bacteria would mutate. There would be mutated versions all over china with no IP violations since it is no longer the same bacteria once it evolves a mutation."

There are well developed methods for preventing mutation from becoming a problem in commercial biofermentation (you keep a few frozen samples of the original culture stored in widely separated locations (for safety). Periodically you start a new batch with a new starter culture derived from about a fourth generation batch derived periodically from a 3rd generation batch periodically derived from a 2nd generation batch periodcially derived from the orignial started culture. That means that the original starter culture itself only has to be used very very rarely and so does not go thru enough generations for mutation to be a problem. Same thing but a little bit less so for the 2nd generation and so on. The end result is that the production bacteria only goes thru a limited number of generations before being discarded.

RE Mutations and patents: a patent does not specify the entire genome of the bacteria; It covers only those genes that are unique and necessary to the process. Thus mutations in any other genes are irrelevant and still covered. In addition "consensus" sequence is used so that only the sequence that is necessary for the process to work is specified. So mutations in all other sequence are still covered. And if it mutates in the necessary sequence it won't work.

Bacterial fermentation works and is used for many things. The point was that it is expensive for getting SSP compared to production in silkworms.

Gene patents work and give very effective coverage (this has been done for many decades now!).

The lack of effective patent coverage is not a problem for competition producing SSP in bacteria. The expense is a problem, the lack of any way to mechanically spin it is a BIG problem and the inevitable high cost of doing it IF a way is found is also a big problem.

No "mud" please! Just the facts!