Replies to post #116962 on Mr Cooper Group Inc (COOP)

[diamondguru-one]

oooooh...the LOVE in the AIR....!!!!!..."2 TIMES VALUE" !!!! "POPCORN" !!!! and a "BOX of DEPENDS" !!! what do you GET ????????....Gooooo WAMUS GREAT LEGAL TEAM !!!!

the question should be "WHY SO MANY LAWYERS" ???lol

[Desperado90]

Dude, I'm going to check all the old filings tonight.

I think you are on to something major here. Give me a few hours to get all the 10Qs and 10Ks side by side to see what the F was going on.

Great job.

[InfamousMP]

fsshon - that imo is one of the best post of the year!

Im gonna do some more dd....

[up and up]

that is huge, you rock

[DPincus]

GREAT job, Fish! IMO, that is the most sound rationale and likely scenario in all the time I've been watching this board. I think you hit GOLD, my friend!
DP

[Sculelos]

Wow! Very solid theory and it just made my mind wonder. I look forward to whatever you come up with but that's some great thinking! Great Job!

[PutYourWatchOn]

Go Fish! That actually makes perfect sense.

[John Gyver]

Oh, if we could just go back to the days when WAMUQ was trading for $.021.... I think we would have all sold off the second car just to add BIG!

Good job Fish! Your DD is always at the top!

John Gyver

[thetruth63]

great post. this is the best, most informed board that I have had the pleasure of reading. That post, as a Jim Rome listener, gets a tongue on the mouse. Well done.

[Royal Dude]

You are unbelievable Fish I'am glad your on our team and Diamond was always right Go Wamu!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mutz]

Very interesting Fish. I've been holding this stock since Sept.08 for a valid reason. I've always believed the outcome for wamu will be positive. Your take on things just reinforced that belief. Well thought out!

[jhdf51]

Thanks for that great post fish!

[VivaLasVegas]

Now that is REASON ENOUGH TO BUY wouldn't you say?

GREAT POST !!!!!!!



HUGE CHEERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Billiam_2]

Good job fish! That's the best piece of DD I've seen in months. Sticky for sure.

[oilstrike]

Heck yea fish, great surmising post ya made there, thanks for the effort!

[p_chen]

fsshon, your thought is really through and logical.

TPG, in April, 2008, injected $7.04 billion dollars in 176 million WMI common shares and $5.5 billion dollars worth of convertible preferred shares. [http://dealbook.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/04/09/tpg-leads-7-billion-washington-mutual-investment/]

Also, as per Doreen Logan's affidavit, page 17, WMI intended to and filed the application to OTS to decapitalize WMB fsb by $20 billion dollars months prior to September, 2008. That's why JPM's arguement of that $3.674 billion dollars is WMI's C.C. to WMB fsb is purely broken. If WMB fsb needs that $3.674 billion dollars, why WMI moved it away? Well, at least it tried to.

Now my view is a bit different from yours with all due respect. If WMI/TPG thought WMB fsb is so safe from the regulators' reach, they wouldn't try to move that $20 billion dollars excessive capital to Pike Street Holding[a direct subsidiary of WMI], according to Doreen Logan's affidavit.

My take is that WMI/TPG knew the eveil nature of the government and the possibly "irregular" actions taken by regulartors. WMI/TPG don't want K.I.A.[kill-in-action]. That's why they tried to move that valuable $20 billion dollars capital from WMB and WMB fsb, far away from the government's reach in terms of supervisory controls.

With the $7 billion dollars injection from TPG, in alliance to the fact provided by OTS and FDIC, WMB remained "well-capitalized" till the seizure. In addition, WMB has $50 billion dollars credit line from the Fed fund window as suggested by Rober, the exec of WMI in court file. Moreover, WMI has $3.674 billion dollars cash to cushion sudden happennings. Those should be enough for WMB and WMB fsb to get away from unsound financial structure and capitalization. If the regulators said,"Not enough", WMI has a huge fresh fund capacity of $20 billion dollars to support its banks[i.e., if it was able to move that $20 billion dollars out of WMB fsb].

What's in my mind is as follow. FDIC saw WMI was trying to move $3.674 billion deposits from WMB to WMB fsband $20 billion capitals from WMB fsb[to WMI's wholly owned sub]. It knew once there was a bank-run on WMB, FDIC went bankrupt immediately. So FDIC must stop the fund movements even though they are subject to WMI's authority. In addition, JPM was standing at the edge of facing liquidity problem. Credit market, with the collapse of Lehman, frozed. TARP was stuck. In order to get rid of the potential WMB "tumor" and to provide JP "liquidity" for its derivatives contracts, FDIC did what it has done to WMB, WMB fsb, WMI, TPG, company's shareholders and bondholders. Trial is needed Sir.

[MightyWM]

Fish,

I dont know too much about the whole story. But here is what I read from HROLLER who fights for WAMU in JPM's board.

The following was quoted from the email sent to Board of Director of WmBfsb from Peter Frellinger.

"We propose to decapitalize WMBfsb by returning $20 billion of capital to its parent. The $20 billion will include the master note of approximately $7 billion, proceeds from $3.5 billion of Discount Notes and cash
generated through additional wholesale deposits and advances from FHLB Seattle. We propose the payment of at least $10 billion by September 30, 2008 and the remaining $10 billion through December 2009."

HROLLER's post - http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=43104188.

Someone else was asking if WMBfsb is a subs of WMI or WMB. Please read the "10-K For 12/31/99" in page 3 the first two paragraphs of Overview - http://www.secinfo.com/dr643.5f2.htm#87rj. It was very clear that WMBfsb is the subs of WMI.

Thanks for all your inputs in the past. GLTY

[michael laurino]

Fish,Thanks for this great post.My question is:Are these items addressed in any of the court documents,be it the Delaware case or the D.C. case,and......if so,who would we be going after for the money??
JPMC or the FDIC or both???Thks........

[Nightdaytrader]

Fsshon, if this is true, then why doesn't the WAMU Holding Company go forward to the public and tell all what really happened? Or at least leak some of this information to the press? Why fight this in court and let JPM/FDIC drag this out for months and months?

ND9

[diamondguru-one]

fsshon why YOU think 2010 ??? you dont like Nov 28th ??? IMHO the "HAMMER" is in FLIGHT !!!! on who's HEAD it lands is anyones guess..... :>).....Goooo WAMUq

[ETO-Castle]

WOW...Awesome POST !

GREAT job !

[linda1]

"WMI sent a letter in Aug. to the OTS that stated they were going to dwonstream 20 Bil in cash to WMBfsb. The letter stated that it would decrease their capital liquidity ratio, but keep it way above the min 8% required.

Money was being moved from WMB to WMBfsb, because the Board was told by their legal representatives that WMBfsb would be safe from FDIC and would not be part of a sale."



Your statements appear to contradict Doreen Logan's affidavit which says that WMB fsb was overcapitalized and that an application was filed with the OTS to transfer 20 billion of excess capital out of WMB fsb to Pike Street Holdings Inc.

Am I in error?



Washington Mutual Sought Regulatory Approval To Reduce WMB fsb'sCapital Base By $20 Billion - Which Is Inconsistent With Any Notion That There WasAny Intent During The Same Time Period To Increase WMB fsb 's Capital By $3.674Billion. For months prior to the September 2008 transfer of the $3.674 billion deposit,the Treasury group of Washington Mutual had proposed and planned to decapitalizeWMB fsb by transferring $20 billion in excess capital from WMB fsb to Pike StreetHoldings, Inc., its direct parent entity. The plan to move the $20 billion is reflected in (a)the August 14, 2008 memorandum from WMB's Senior Vice President - Funding &Capital, Treasury, Peter Freilinger, to the Board of Directors of Washington Mutual Bankfsb, and (b) the August 15, 2008 Application for Capital Distribution that was submittedto the Office of Thrift and Supervision (copies of which are attached hereto as Exhibit N.)As explained in Mr. Freilinger's memorandum, the purpose of the planneddecapitalization was to free up low-earning and non-earning assets and make it easer forWMB fsb to stay in compliance with the federal "Qualified Thrift Lender" test, whichprovides that the institution must hold qualified thrift assets (i.e., housing-relatedinvestments) equal to at least 65% of its portfolio assets. By shrinking WMB fsb'scapital base, its mortgage-related assets would increase as a total percentage of its 15 A-15
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portfolio assets, thereby ensuring compliance with the "Qualified Thrift Lender" test, and the $20 billion could be put to use by Pike Street Holdings, Inc. As stated in Mr. Freilinger's memo, the decapitalization would decrease WMB fsb's leverage ratio from 62% to 25%, which was still more than sufficient since a "well capitalized institution requires an 8% or higher leverage ratio." Since I was told by Regulatory Reporting that the capital distribution notice required 60 days for approval, and the application was filed with the OTS on about August 15, 2008, at the time of the transfer of the $3.674 billion in September of 2008 it was my expectation that the OTS would approve the application by October 15, 2008. Of course, this never happened after the FDIC seized the assets of WMB (including the stock of WMB fsb) on September 25, 2008.

[Big Paper Pancakes]

lets all pray that you are correct

[The Godfather]

I guess the new Mantra is " If Bonderman gets paid, TPG gets paid, abighammer gets paid then we all get paid"

I wonder what the FDIC response will be when asked why they took over the bank on a thursday when they could have as well waited for Friday. I am no lawyer but I can imagine with the cards that Weil and Quinn have to play, they have only aces and they are not even up their sleeve, its all out there on the table.

[Rumble]

Fish,

Great post. I've always had a lot of confidence as investor because TPG owns a huge block of stock, and with that a lot of power in this play. That hasn't changed through out all of this.

I've never been quite able to put my finger on exactly why TPG made this move out of preferreds into commons. I certainly understand the basic premise to facilitate a sale of WMB, but that only makes minimal sense on the surface. I've thought it might have had something to do with the Texas case, and I think it is a factor, but TPG could have still been involved even if they owned preferreds in my opinion.

Looking at the big picture of what happens after they removed the big liability of WMB and the potential losses from mortages and all they could have had a huge pile of cash to invest via WMBfsb and WMI. TPG afterall is in the investment business.

This is also why I believe at the end, WMI common stock will still be around and is looking to get back as much cash and other assets, including WMBfsb as possible. There will be a huge return and future gains possible once they are back in the money.

I believe the next couple of weeks could be very interest! Keep up the good work Fish!

I also liked the comments about why all the accounting and law firms. This is a pretty impressive team, and they are working well past getting the $4B back. There are many other assets and legal moves yet to be made, or in the process of being made and coming to fruition very soon. I hope!

Go WAMU and Team!

[rramirez82]

Excellent post, Fish. I think you may have put the majority of this puzzle together..

[porkman385]

Can someone please explain this in a little more detail? I'm not quite certain as to how converting preferred shares into common shares in WMI would reduce the debt in WMB. I believe it, I just would like to understand why.

"Bonderman decides on Sept 7th (MOU w/OTS)to convert his preferred shares in WMI to Common shares. This would alleviate the debt that was actually owed by WMB."

[The Godfather]

What iff? What iff Bonderman is sided with Jamie and Bair and Paulson and the rest of their croonies? What iff? Just to kickstart my totally innovative imaginary theory about how this might ultimately play out.

Bonderman converted his shares to commons to reduce liabilities taken by JPM. The FDIC pays ultimately for their "wrong-doing" from the taxpayers money to WMI commons..

This set-up would be a win-win for everyone. JPIG gets what they want.. TPG gets what they want.. Bair got manipulated and probably there is some incentive to her from both these guys and probably be on the TPG board after she quits.

I know this sounds fantastic and untrue but I am asking myself, Who not? Its a win-win for all the big guys and no one is losing except the taxpayer in this process.. JPM wins/ TPG wins/ the lawyers get paid/ FDIC gets into trouble but they don't care about it anyway... Everyones happy. Hmmmm...

[Slick989]

Volume picking up!!!!