Replies to post #41321 on Zeons Corporation (ZEON)

[PaperProphet]

RE:<<<Two problems with your theory:
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One, with theability to make more biofuel per bushel using a catalyst than anyone else and the green credits, green certs etc offsetting costs as well as selling the biogas and fertilizer to also offset costs, USSE has a better chance to make a profit with their plan.
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Second, even if their electricity costs more than some other sources, many are willing to pay a premium if its for a good cause, helping the environment etc. I know currently I have choices in electricity as well as many other choices I make in homes, cars, food etc., I don't always choose the cheapest. If there is some added benefit, others will pay more for "green energy".>>>

For "One," do the calculation yourself with ALL of the energy from the soybeans and add in REC's. Unless you're suggesting the fertilizer or biogas component is worth significantly more than the portion used for "biofuel", the numbers don't make sense. Also, USSE can't produce more oil than anyone else using pyrolysis. Mr. Rivera just talks up the oil he gets. Look at http://www.btgworld.com/technologies/pyrolysis.html for a fairly typical yield/etc....

For "Second," the premium people are willing to pay is in the form of green tags. I already added in the high side of typical REC's into my numbers. They still can't pay for the soybeans. Do the numbers yourself and see.

[JJMM]

" If there is some added benefit, others will pay more for "green energy"."

The odds are good that as alternate energy becomes more viable the powers that be, in general, will strive to make it less so. The cost of oil will rise and fall, the tax credits will emerge and disappear. Remember the solar tax credits that disappeared curtailing a growing industry. Now we have those who wish to tax those with electric solar panels because the sun is free, a pesky little problem. These people have already paid a premium for non pollutive energy and now this? This is always worth keeping in mind when investing in these things.

[wechoose]

Two problems with your theory. Every low temp fast pyrolysis I've found makes at least as much fuel as USSE's and most more. The range (from DEA) is 70-90% oil by weight. JR's makes around 66% I believe. All systems use a catalyst -- most that I know use silica. Fast pyrolysis oil can also run both gasoline and diesel engines (but can't be mixed with them).

Second, all fast pyrolysis systems processing biomass to oil qualifies for the same green credits USSE/SSTP does. The trick for all is to sell the byproducts.

JR made a huge deal out of his secret catalyst until it was pointed out that any lab could identify it from a sample of the oil. He then said that the real secret is enzymes and they were distroyed by the process. He has now added nanoparticles which produce calcium over a period of twenty years or so except in zero gravity.

If you want to know what's special and truly remarkable about JR's fuel, it's that it contains essentially no water while "regular" pyrolysis contain beau coup. This is staggering and worth the price of admission.

[Matt R]

for instance. i bought cfl bulbs for my house. more expensive - yes! but they lower ur electric consumption, lower emissions and last longer. People dont necessarily want the cheapest they want the most cost effective