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economics of robotics...and croe
Question:----Are robotics, in your opinion a near-term emerging market , that most were led to believe several years ago? If so why don't we hear much about the Irobots & Abb's of the world & their "robotic endeavours" ? ----
Answer: you're kinda mixing apples and lemons there. The market driver (singular) of several years ago was quite simply defense spending and the GWOT. At that time those who already had stable and proven products in the market place where the only ones really in a position to "produce" in real time.
Those folks were followed closely by what I would call "skunk-works" programs that existed in the established hierarchy of the corporate military industry.
The combination of those two players then created a lucrative hotbed for academic and think-tank candidates for applied far-reaching and "creative" applications. Its this last player that really presented the greatest risk of investment for defense dollars because they were the only ones who lacked the required "fundamentals" to present themselves as proven developers; tested in that other hostile environment known as the "free market" system. But defense dollars were hedged by spreading the money around in those 3 areas in such a way as to finance and weather any R&D that went bust.
Keep in the mind, we knew we were fighting a new and asymmetrical war. Creativity and openness to ingenuity were certainly the greatest assets of the new age admirals and generals. And thus we ushered in the drones and many other suites of improvised robotic deployments.
Our money was sent chasing that same road, via our then highly touted military connections, through mostly W.Wiesel. Make no mistake, the contacts were fact and not fiction. Presentations and meetings were taken. The snag was our required lead-time. We needed years to produce, and that simply was not realistic.
Our technology 'was' fascinating, but its luster has been overshadow by other market leader successes.
The Irobots of the world and the ABB's and their ilk are of the first order I described...they were already positioned. Irobot represents and interesting company 'by cache' and they are well established enough to finance proper R&D that creates bankable results...but they need to keep developing and growing past the Roomba IMO.
ABB represents industrial production automation...that my friend is a whole different head of cattle. We never went near that stuff after RWT tanked the 3rd time (which does not include this last/past time).
The aerospace endeavors were nothing more than wishful thinking.
Coroware is not a robotics company...yeah read that again...they are not a robotics company... they are an automation company. They are a service oriented company. They manage, automate and refine Databases and processes. They hook the production floor to the inventory, and inventory to distribution, and then hook it all back into the front office and accounting. This requires people and software...not Corobots. Corobots are nothing more than a toy and not a serious contribution to the field or market place of robotics.
So believe it or not...we have been realistically divested from the real robotics industry and market place for a very long time. Coroware needs service contracts, not robotics fan-fare. Its not their area of expertise....at all.
Oh...p.s....please (please) please lose the Wiesel image on the box...at this point its just creepy and as a personal associate of the man its very, very unpleasant to return here and be slapped with that image....I think the point has been well made and perhaps we should pick on another area of operations for scrutiny...there surely is enough of those here. Thank You.
End of Naked Short Selling....
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080918/ap_on_bi_ge/sec_short_selling
About Walt's sudden passing,
Walt has had a few lingering health issues which have dogged him for a few years now. Without getting into specifics, I would still say that his passing was taken as quite 'sudden' and unexpected.
Walt was a true workaholic, which many of us can relate to the health issues that accompany a lifestyle based on a type-A personality. He never stopped (no matter what), and was mentally tenacious in his problem solving approach. His eyes where constantly fixed over the horizon. Any health issues he had, failed to slow him down for very long...he always fought back. So I would say any conceptions about his health and job performance are inconsequential.
I'd like to share more regarding the circumstances of his passing, but I will respecfully reserve the family it's privacy in their moment of grief.
No link, it just happened....
I was woken up with a phone call passing this info on to me.
I was actually in talks to begin working with him and the Paro folks.
It's still sinking in. He was a personal associate of mine.
Uh, no.
u r funny tho. ha
wweisel498@aol.com...
As I have heard the folk-lore on this thing, some one has apparently "hacked" WW a0l account, and has been impersonating him on this board. That's the line from corporate.
Wouldn't you think a corporate executive would have a problem with some one impersonating him on their own investor related board? Especially since this is the more trafficked site for anything relating to INRA.
Wouldn't you think some type of investigation and prosecution would be forth coming? Especially in light of some rather recent developments regarding another executive being caught pulling a stunt of similar pedigree?
A0L and IHub would gladly assist in rounding up 'said' hacker.
Wouldn't you think?
'Her' is Melissa Flemming,
That's Al's daughter who deftly runs the show down in Port Charlotte. Al & Mel are good eggs in my book.
They parted ways with INRA ('she' bought it back) because of a difference of opinion with the direction & directives coming from 'corporate'. And that's stating things diplomatically.
If there was a paper trail...?
Then why hasn't there been a call to organize a class action?
And I'm just asking. Call it naive or plain ignorance; I'm not too proud to admit what I do not know.
It should be noted,
in my original post I referred to this rumor as what 'may' be coming down the line; not to be confused with it "having already happened."
SPIN cut straight through to the source of that.
Which brings to mind this whole "dumpster-diving" affair. I never did get the whole scoop on that.
What turned up in the trash anyway?
There is clearly something going on,
Whether a bailout can 'buy' us some time, and leverage us out of this mess, is a dim hope for sure. It's certainly unlikely to 'buy' any creditability.
Some one please show us what an alternative reality would look like; because that's where we're going. There's got to be a (legal and ethical) strategy for turning this into a credible investment (and actual business).
It's easy for me to sit back and commiserate, so I'm just attempting to be more than just blindly pessimistic (or actually a realist), and search for a silver lining. Because what is going on is not 'cleaning house', but rather akin to throwing out the baby with the bath water.
Good Question Golfer,
Inquiring minds want to know.
It would be good to know the condition of our stables.
It would also be very telling if CW employees were treated differently than other INRA ex-employees who are still waiting for the money that they are owed.
You're good man,
And funny,'not that there's anything wrong with that'
And let's be honest too,
That whole 'scheme' of 'growth through acquisition' was another spectacular failure of leadership (among many), and was indeed a major contributor to the hole we are in.
If I hear of this again (as a reinvestment scheme), I will know that we are being taken for another ride.
But really, what next?
I understand the significance of getting the Cornell monkey off our collective backs; it would be a big deal on paper, but what tangible difference will it make in the market place?
I'm honestly curious.
Does this mean they are obligated to make things right with their outstanding creditors, et al.?
Does that mean we start banking the revenue from CW?
If they propose to "re-invest" the money in the company, wouldn't that be just be another circuitous route to their own wallets and not the share holders?
Besides shoring up CW, what could they possibly think they have to reinvest in when those very same things were what drained the company in the first place?
I'm really wanting to understand or foresee what may be next for us, as shareholders.
BTW, when do we get to vote again?
Or,
It could be like a cancer, that spreads.
With all the debt and outstanding vendors/contractor invoices going unpaid...that along with longterm employees bailing...I'm still waiting for the 'positive' side of this wave.
When the same people are calling the shots, when does it become apparent that the failure to perform is coming from the top, not the rank and file employees who's only mistake has been to place the same amount of trust in our management team that we as share holders have.
I'm all for pruning the tree of life, but it's our brain trust that is walking away, not the deadwood we've been carrying for far too long.
There is a rumor (repeat rumor) circulating that the Cornell debt may be paid off by a single individual...how would that change the picture?
I would have to add,
I did find the response to angry_as_hell 'more' than a bit nuanced.
There were issues and direct statements that went completely un-refuted.
I'm glad some of the folks are still getting paychecks; I would only advise them to stay 'very' busy indeed, and save your money (your severance will go unpaid, like others before you).
But what of the vendors and contractors?
What company walks around screwing people like that, and still holds their heads high, as if to justify their lack of basic business etiquette (I'm sure they are threading a legal needle as to what is criminal about stiffing the folks you engage to do business with, and what is not).
As for their stock options, all I would say is, "welcome to the party pal".
Interesting Article to fill the void,
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071004/ap_on_sc/japan_robot_helpers_5
I bet you longs thought you were investing in this kind of technology didn't you?
Be sure to check out the photos, which (among other things)describes a recent event in NY.
Enjoy.
Cooking on Coroware's back,
I agree mostly, but they would be well advised to leave well enough alone, though If they insist on stirring a hornet's nest, they'll get their just desserts...
They should give CW everything they ask for, and let them alone to do their thing.
Meanwhile they should do some serious house cleaning in Fort Myers. Sell off everything that isn't nailed down and consolidate down to their skivvies. Loose all the layers of corporate "officers", and lighten the useless bloat on the board; get it down to essential operations people and accounting; and that's it.
Let them try to sell patent licenses as they may, but spend next to zero on it...they saw fit to de-fund RWT, so the logic follows not to throw good money after bad.
Innova Robotics (not INRA) will also not survive without an injection of serious, serious funding; and then you're back into a period of R&D and development that will also cost money. and again it is a URC scenario; pumping cash into something that has not been proven in the market place because it is an incomplete product.
And loose all the silly layers of administration!
They should form a team of 2-3 people that share the role of President, CEO and COO...not 3 independent egos and wasted paychecks; and let those people share the responsibilities of running the ship and raising investment capital...as a team. I know that may seem impossible but no 'one' person has yet proven themselves capable of doing any of these jobs by themselves.
The kids have been running the daycare for too long.
I would only trust one person in a leadership position, and that person is Loyd.
Oh, it would be bloody,
I know the "notion" of buying themselves out of the INRA mess is no small fish to fry.
BUT, I firmly believe that Coroware could get the backing all on their own. They have a strong and prosperous future ahead of them. They have proven themselves to be a team of people who not only understand the market they are in, but also know how to innovate and compete. Again, I'm a sucker for the raw fundamentals.
This is entirely the opposite picture of the INRA group. And we all know how stark the contrast really is without me pointing it out all over again.
If I were to present it, it would have to be structured as a long term deal in order to weather the buy-back, BUT they can make good on such a large amount of investment. The tale of the tape tells no lies; they have the legs.
They are the real deal; not a bunch of pie in the eye BS like INRA.
They may be perceived as being in Microsoft's hip pocket, but that's not entirely fair. In large part, they've made their bones all on their own.
I would be really happy (and proud) of them if they could mount such a cu'.
Problem is, we would still be left with nothing, as shareholders...you know; literally.
The bar is closed,
I see where you are coming from, but if they could indeed scrape enough together to get that greasy, sticky monkey off "our" back, why not just bite the bullet (swallow that bitter pill) and buy themselves out of the INRA debt pool and go back to a private company and reap their own rewards?
They could justify it as an investment in securing their own future; which if you examine their fundamentals you can see that they have their shit together, and have had it together for quite some time. As an investor in just Coroware, their charts look just fine and the forecasts and projections look quite solidly positive.
If I could, I would look for outside investors as partners in a privately held company. Buy back the company, recoup, start collecting some return on investment & then re-access & decide if they would like to go public again.
Altronics bought themselves out of the kill zone, why shouldn't Coroware be thinking the same thing?
Coroware must certainly want to rid themselves of the INRA virus, it's just going to be a very (very) messy and expensive flu shot...INRA is one nasty bug that will not want to let go.
But Coroware has the fundamentals to ride it out.
It would be a gutsy move, but I think it would insure their future and growth. At some point they are going to decide they are through being INRA's punk.
Agreed on the need,
the thing is there are too many egos in the way, and a lot of deadwood on the board.
in the words of the 'joker' from the 1st batman movie, "this town (company) needs and enema!"
clear out the old school crap, and put the right/bright people in charge, and we could get some more funding (as needed).
all the juveniles in the command post are standing squarely in our way. get them out, and the training wheels will spin right off!
You've shared what little u know,
the licensing is red (dead) herring....and the only thing worth buying is Coroware, NOT the entire holding company (it's a bloody mess); Oh, but whoops, that IS the entire holding company!
So a mutinous takeover from that (CoroWare)direction seems more likely, but they will have a lot of bodies to 'reaver' through to get there...but damn that would be sweeet.
The day-traders will have their fun with this one, but the longs still have a bitter road to hoe, even for those who get in now.
As has been said, this is not a stock that should be bought and held. This is one for the day traders...plenty of ups and downs.
All of us who where here pre-split have a whole different perspective, and will pass on the crap and bologna sandwiches.
LOYD 4 PRESIDENT!
You want to see some share price movement, make him President, CEO, or COO.
VP status under the current structure is a piddle. I mean it's a very symbolic gesture and a very token position (as history has shown).
He should only have to answer to the Board and NO ONE ELSE! Let him loose damn it!
Sorry for the all-caps. That news got me excited, I must say.
Thanks Aries,
the headline says "has achieved...milestone", when in fact the first paragraph states clearly that they "hope to achieve"; by doing such and such.
Nice start, huh.
hopefully they do the smart thing and just leave Coroware the hell alone. So, far they have done their thing in a positive direction WITHOUT intervention from the Florida Masterminds.
Altronics was bought-back, not sold (actually it's not the same thing).
And trading "restricted" common stock for debt tells you that in fact they were not (will not) and could not pay their bills. And what "knob" would take restricted common stock, in lieu of cash, if they can't trade it today and get the money they are owed, today?
Good news? or did we know all this already?
Thanks for the drive by snail,
next time, stop in and ask some questions; or at least give them a hand with their packing boxes. You can get one those old robots they have for a steal, I heard, it's all for sale. They make great planters, or supports for a backyard hammock.
I heard that bubble wrap is fun too.
understood,
But even before this 'PR' you refer to, the whole licensing offer has been floating around (and aggressively been pursued) for a number of years; publicized or not.
This PR was meant as a shot across the bow to other control makers who may be thinking they have gone unnoticed by INRA patent attorneys.
We have seen how productive and lucrative doing business through litigation has gotten us, so the sentiment that robotified has rings a little clearer when you consider the broader history of that whole strategy.
most any company out there could out last them in court at this point (balanced against the other rumor of Chap.13). I think that's what he meant by 'toothless'.
more than 10 weeks old,
the licensing deal has been a strategy for years now, not weeks...still no takers...consider that rumor at least to be less than just rumor.
Maybe some of our local board members could make a drive by the half warehouse and see what's up. That would take 2 bits of info off the rumor list.
And perhaps a phone call to "AL" would straighten that one out as well.
'looking less and less like rumors to me. Maybe a phone call to some former employees would shed some light too.
And you know what?
you say we don't know what's coming; guess what? neither do you...stick to the links (the oscar myer type).
If you feel OK about pumping this pig with more hot air, go ahead and waste your keystrokes.
Just don't waste OUR time unless you have the bones to back up what is filling your leaking balloon.
I might as well call you WW...you have just as much credibility around here with your long coat full of innuendo(s).
I mock you outright. People like you deserve the company you keep...been to church lately? You guys all share the same "pew"...as in, you reek.
I'd love to test the boundaries of the TOU to tell you what you really are.
You ever heard the union expression,
"you don't want to see a pink slip tacked to your locker"
go with that.
You're right, I should quantify that,
I've heard more pink slips are in circulation.
That's all I can, or should say at this point.
Strange and disgruntled times my friend.
I sure wasn't contradicting you either,
I bow to your investment prowess, 'cause we all know that there is only one direction up from the bottom.
Just saying. Keep your ears and eyes open; and I hope you don't get bit on the bottom feeders either.
WEO,
to quote:
"It will be another 6 months to a year before another reverse split so safe on that side."
Babe this thing will not be here in a year...take that for what it's worth. There will be more dismal (factual) updates coming soon.
Rumors = Zero,
What a crock.
"Rumors of news coming"
I have seen this BS so many times it's lost it's humor.
Longs need more than that line of crap.
Shorts shouldn't preach to Longs,
Y'all operate under a different construct than longs...spare us the, "it's your own fault, lecture".
BUT, to your credit, the only people who have ever gained on this have been the Shorts, and that has been what I have said all along.
Lack of Fundamentals, propped up by paper thin integrity and performance from management makes for horrible forecasts.
To think that we here on this board have ANY effect on the stock price gives us too much credit. BUT, if you actually think about it; this is the ONLY source of consistent and accurate information regarding this company to date. Although, having us all turn our backs on facts and play mum is really not worth too much here. The only thing that will move this puppy is tangible "long-term" performance.
Yeah, we drank the Kool-Aide once upon time, we're just still hacking it back up.
PennyJester,
"your" sentiment plays like someone who knows little to nothing about this company, or the market they espouse to be playing in...
And if calling a 'long' a 'Basher' is the best you can do; you really should try looking up the word 'realist'.
And your use of the word 'discounted' is so humorous regarding INRA. Give the market some credit, and read the tale of the tape.
The Big Guys are not in the run with this bull and haven't been for a very long time (they were a complete drive-by). They've long moved on. The only ones who are gonna walk away with anything from this are those who 'parachute' out before the slaughter.
Eat'em if you got 'em,
Folks this thing is bust, and you just won't let it go.
That's understandable, but I think after all the deep diggin' DD our fair SPIN is popular for, the picture should be pretty clear by now; even without more hokey PR's...
And you silly little pumpers don't know squat...and just like the rest who come and go, y'all say the same lame crap over and over. Surprise us and be original.
-----------------------------------
Military: non
Aerospace: non
CNC retrofit: check
Coroware: check
That's it. Nothing more to see here...let's all move along. Our collective time spent on this has turned out to be worth more than the stock.
It's been a long hard, ugly nightmare.
Maybe Lunesta makes something for that.
Who wants to split a pack?
Completely OT, but interesting...
Automation comes in many forms...we see.
Wal-Mart Opens Up Data Bank
May 18, 2007
By Constantine von Hoffman
WEST HOLLYWOOD, FLA.—Wal-Mart, which stopped providing sales data to third-party firms in 2001, said this week it would offer such data for a new initiative with Procter & Gamble to measure the effectiveness of in-store marketing.
“This is an initiative we think will forever change retail marketing,” said Stephen Quinn Wal-Mart CMO, during a session at the Consumer 360 conference, held May 15-17 in West Hollywood, Fla. The effort, called Prism, uses infrared sensors placed throughout stores to measure traffic and consumer exposure to product displays and other marketing materials like banners and in-store TV networks. The effort is being organized by Nielsen In-Store, a division of The Nielsen Co., New York (which also is the parent company of Brandweek). Nielsen Co. also presented the Consumer 360 event.
Dina Howell, general manager-global marketing operations at P&G, said U.S. stores could start to be equipped with the sensors within two weeks. In addition to Wal-Mart, the devices will be put into 150 different retail outlets, including convenience and grocery stores, by the time of the project's full launch in early 2008. Although the effort is currently only being rolled out in the U.S., Quinn and Howell said it would be in place internationally within a couple of years. The consortium funding Prism also includes Albertsons, Kroger, Walgreens, 3M, Walt Disney, Coca-Cola, Kellogg and Miller Brewing.
Howell said a pilot effort that ran for two weeks last year achieved an initial 76% accuracy rate in its predictions of consumer behavior, and that further refinement has increased that to 85%. Wal-Mart contributed sales information from 1,000 of its stores to the study—a tenfold increase over the amount of data the company had ever previously released, according to Quinn.
I'm holding because they suck TOO much to get rid of at this point.When they don't suck as much, you'll see plenty of peeps climbing out of this clown car...beep, beep.
Battle Bot dreams...
I thought this was interesting. It'd be nice if we were ever a part of this picture...
----------------------------------------------------
Battle Bots: Iraq, Afghanistan Unprecedented In Widespread Use of Warbots
—Ace
And more are coming, including centipede-like crawlers that weave their way through minefields detonating one mine per leg.
The wars in Afghanistan and Iraq have become an unprecedented field study in human relationships with intelligent machines. These conflicts are the first in history to see widespread deployment of thousands of battle bots. Flying bots range in size from Learjets to eagles. Some ground bots are like small tanks. Others are the size of two-pound dumbbells, designed to be thrown through a window to scope out the inside of a room. Bots search caves for bad guys, clear roads of improvised explosive devices, scoot under cars to look for bombs, spy on the enemy and, sometimes, kill humans.
Even more startling than these machines' capabilities, however, are the effects they have on their friendly keepers who, for example, award their bots "battlefield promotions" and "purple hearts." "Ours was called Sgt. Talon," says Sgt. Michael Maxson of the 737th Ordnance Company (EOD). "We always wanted him as our main robot. Every time he was working, nothing bad ever happened. He always got the job done. He took a couple of detonations in front of his face and didn't stop working. One time, he actually did break down in a mission, and we sent another robot in and it got blown to pieces. It's like he shut down because he knew something bad would happen." The troops promoted the robot to staff sergeant -- a high honor, since that usually means a squad leader. They also awarded it three "purple hearts."
...
Ted Bogosh recalls one day in Camp Victory, near Baghdad, when he was a Marine master sergeant running the robot repair shop.
That day, an explosive ordnance disposal technician walked through his door. The EODs, as they are known, are the people who -- with their robots -- are charged with disabling Iraq's most virulent scourge, the roadside improvised explosive device. In this fellow's hands was a small box. It contained the remains of his robot. He had named it Scooby-Doo.
Staff Sgt. James Craven (background) and Sgt. Domonic Amaral run tests on two Talon 3Bs at a base in Tikrit, Iraq. The Talon 3B is one of several robots used by explosive ordnance disposal units in search of improvised explosive devices.
"There wasn't a whole lot left of Scooby," Bogosh says. The biggest piece was its 3-by-3-by-4-inch head, containing its video camera. On the side had been painted "its battle list, its track record. This had been a really great robot."
The veteran explosives technician looming over Bogosh was visibly upset. He insisted he did not want a new robot. He wanted Scooby-Doo back.
"Sometimes they get a little emotional over it," Bogosh says. "Like having a pet dog. It attacks the IEDs, comes back, and attacks again. It becomes part of the team, gets a name. They get upset when anything happens to one of the team. They identify with the little robot quickly. They count on it a lot in a mission."
The bots even show elements of "personality," Bogosh says. "Every robot has its own little quirks. You sort of get used to them. Sometimes you get a robot that comes in and it does a little dance, or a karate chop, instead of doing what it's supposed to do." The operators "talk about them a lot, about the robot doing its mission and getting everything accomplished." He remembers the time "one of the robots happened to get its tracks destroyed while doing a mission." The operators "duct-taped them back on, finished the mission and then brought the robot back" to a hero's welcome.
Near the Tigris River, operators even have been known to take their bot fishing. They put a fishing rod in its claw and retire back to the shade, leaving the robot in the sun.
Of the fish, Bogosh says, "Not sure if we ever caught one or not."
Lift-Off means...
There's no place but up, when your sitting on the bottom...any little blip means cash when you're at zero :0