Sorry, school is keeping me busy.

Back when I was active here, these were my metrics

Conservative 0.65-0.85 pps
realistic 0.95-1.25 pps
Optimistic 1.55-2.15 pps

After watching all this spiral out, these my new metrics

conservative 0.075-0.085 pps
realistic 0.11-0.15 pps
optimistic 0.18-0.36 pps

Very possible
- stuck in litigation indefinitely or pissed away before the shareholders see a penny
$0 pps.

I'm in a situation where a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. I'd sell all my shares for $0.035 pps or best offer above.

Hey all. So I've been gone for a long time - honestly forgot this was happneing. After an obscene amount of catching up, it looks to me like this whole thing is going to be trapped in legal hell for the foreseeable future.

Honest question, if I was wanting to sell my shares (416,490) to someone who still believed that this can end well for the shareholders, would I have any takers?

~417k shares

JFC

College and work have been eating me alive for the last several months, and look to continue doing so for the next 3 years. I haven't been able to keep up with this board.

Is there a post that breaks down the current state of affairs? I'm seeing lots of concern, but have no idea what's going on. I've got about 420k shares riding on this, and am hoping that I haven't lit that cash on fire.

Lol, you hopped on the way back machine to find that post :)

When I posted that, we were looking at one big court date for all 13. It's possible after all the smoke has cleared that we might see numbers that big (cumulatively) as the first trial will set a precedent to be used as settlement talk ammunition, and each case will be handled independently.

I still hold to my original belief that this will be settled though.
Conservatively, $0.95 per share before lawyer fees,
Realistically, about $2.10 per share before lawyer fees,
Optimistically, about $3.08 per share before lawyer fees

This would be over the entire course of trial/settlement for all 13 companies.

As to the old link, it looks like it's gone for me too. Sorry mates :)

The reality is that we need to keep focused on just the 13. Chanbond filed back in 2012 (2011 maybe? my memory sucks) when the options for high speed internet were limited to the infringing tech or expensive, largely unavailable fiber.

As we move into 2021 and beyond, any future filings are going to have to contend with the rapid growth of country-wide 5G. We will probably hit some of the other big offenders, and we might get small settlements, but the applicability of the patents is going to move to obsolescence before 2030, which will damage our ability to sway juries.

In the event of a major win, there might be a little trickle left in the pipes, but this set of trials *IS* the bulk of the potential financial gain for shareholders.

That may be so, but if what I think will happen ends up happening, then carter would be looking at 13 different court and appeals court processes, all bouncing around over the next 3-4 years. that sounds nightmarish for both him and his lawyers.

One thing to consider is the Jury's/Judge's willingness to establish a precedent. Those of us on this board who have done valuations of the companies' revenue streams and used the 1% gross as the basis for valuation know that damages should be between $8b and $12b, with treble damages ranging from $24b to $36b (my estimates were around 8.7 and 26.1 respectively).

That being said, people have a hard time grasping the concept of money at these levels, and they likely will not be able to avoid doing some mental calculations at how much money the comparatively few UOIP owners would be getting when calculating damages.

To add to that, the current record for awarded damages is slightly over $2.5b (Idenix v Gilead) and the average payouts are much, much lower than that.

I believe that this case has the potential to exceed the $2.5b, but if it does it will not be by much. As much as you and I would want this case to see proper damages meted out against these giants - I just don't see it happening.

https://www.iam-media.com/patent-damages-us-courts-overview-current-state-playe

I may have gotten lost on the schedule. I seem to recall reading somewhere that the Daubert hearing for the trial is in November. I could be out to left field on this though.

Do we have a schedule summary for what the next steps look like?

Here's the catch 22 of the "Larger Fight"

right now this is a David and Goliath situation. everyone here has some solid confidence that the spunky sling wielder is gonna bring down the hill giant, but it's not a guarantee.

With the US court systems, precedence is the most pivotal thing you can have on your side.

If we win against the 13, we establish that precedence and whoever ends up with the patents trades out a sling for grenade launcher. The patents and the lawsuits have value, but the opposition has a massive war chest. Anyone who wants to take this fight international needs that precedence to make it worth Billy's price tag.

Just a thought as to why we are where we are.

I've done that. Those additions brought the PPS to 3.75/11.24 for 1%/7years and 3%/7years respectively. Like I said, it's an underestimate from a lack of data.

By all means, go for it.

I did this a few months back so I wouldn't be able to share the links where i found the information but they all came from publicly available reports that I found on google.

If we win, that'll be the next part. Hopefully the burden of proof will shift to the defense to prove that money they made DID NOT originate from use of the defending technology. Such proof would be an enormous PITA.

Reason number #117 why they should just settle and be bloody done with it.

I did some calculations based on information I could find. Below is the google sheets view for it. These numbers are lower than reality because I did average the 0's in when I couldn't find any more information.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12rB-Y7nBsMGd5DLRg_a8fs75n9Xvev_161J-OCKv1cY/edit?usp=sharing

(assumed: 33% lawyer fees)
What it came down to, is if the 13 are charged 1% for 7 years, they'll be looking at a bill of about 8.236 Billion. After lawyer fees, we should see a PPS of about 3.58

Triple damage bill is, of course, 3x that and the PPS would be 10.74.

If we assume (incorrectly, I'm sure) that the jury sides with us and the 13 just grumble and write the necessary checks to pay the bill, then an agreement would be made between chanbond, the 13, and the defense lawyers regarding a third party escrow institution. Once the money went to said institution, the defense lawyers would work with the accountants at said institution to get the money to the shareholders while filing the appropriate IRS forms.

The funny thing about all this is that we had all these conversations back in late april / early may when the thread of revocation first showed up.

Nothing is new about the concept of the delisting. Your shares are not worthless. Your shares are worth what someone is willing to pay for them, just as they always have been. They are worth 6.25*10^-8% of UOIP each.

Because there are no preferred shares, the value increase of the company at the conclusion of the court date affects each share equally. A settlement, court win, or buyout is completely unrelated to the tradeability of the stock.

There was no value to carter or the remaining officers of Unified to keep the company listed as they don't need to care about shareholder opinion. They made us no promises and didn't need us for the court case.

In short, nothing has changed, the real value of your shares (hopefully $2+) has not changed one iota. It's simply not visible anymore.

Cheers, and long $(Stocks formerly known as UOIP)

Ditto. I Can spare a few buckaroos to get the reports direct.

Know? I don't "know" anything more than anybody else here. I'm making a hypothesis based on some assumptions I've made about the value the patents have. I could be totally out to lunch, but that's just what I think right now.

Carter is confident of a win. Carter knows he can get somewhere on the order of 6-12 billion in court, without treble damages. I see nothing to imply that COMM Hasn't been slinging 1.5-2 billion dollar offers his way, but he's been turning them down because he knows he can do better.

I'm actually starting to think that a court case may not only be inevitable, but actually a necessity.

We (or at least I) have been operating on the premise that a buyout would imply that one or more entities would purchase the patents for a large sum of money, then they would turn around and start demanding royalties of the other infringers in order to recoup their losses and turn a profit in 2-3 years time.

But then I ask myself, if that's as easy as it is, why hasn't chanbond charged royalties to the infringing companies in the interim while the court case is lining up? Well, it seems to me they don't respect the authority that those patents grant UOIP. It may be that a court win is necessary to establish the validity of that authority, and any potential buyer of the patents would need it as well.

At this point, all a purchase will do is make the current lawsuit go away, and make any potential buyer have to start their own litigation process against the infringers in order to get their money's worth out of the patents, and I don't think anyone wants that.

Just shower thoughts

One thing to keep an eye on is, in the event of a buyout, the stock price of the buying entity.

We all are looking at these patents in the short term - what the infringement means. But these patents have royalty value as well. The company that does buy them will be able to charge 3%-5% royalty on the services that use these patents, especially if they're proven in a court case to hold litigious merit. That'll get them their money back on the purchase of the patents within 3 years, and rake in the profits after that. The buyer's stocks may sink as they dump capital investment, but that's the time to buy - the drop will be temporary.

The patents are an incredibly lucrative tool, on top of being a thorn in the side of the 13.

I was curious about the VHC vs Apple case, as it's been frequently referenced here, and i found this article.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-loses-appeal-in-facetime-lawsuit-must-pay-virnetx-440-million/

It sounds like either apple delayed several times, or is still in the process of doing so. Do we have any kinds of protection from these types of delay strategies on behalf of the defendants?

Thank you for sharing that. I had not seen it prior to today.

So, going by headline alone, a minimum of 2 billion (multi-billion) dollar settlement was either presented or requested, without coming to agreeable terms.

I sort of assumed that there would be frequent communications back and forth between the lawyer teams regarding potential settlements unless they're both determined to go to trial. Are they required to document attempts at reconciliation?

Lol, something is funky with the yahoo finance chart for UOIP. Did my regular google search for UOIP to link me back to this page, and the yahoo chart has a note of 61.60 USD at 10:30 PM.

For half a second, I thought a buyout had happened at 6x my wildest dreams.

[tag]https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&channel=tus&tbm=fin&q=OTCMKTS:+UOIP&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAONgecRowS3w8sc9YSn9SWtOXmPU5OIKzsgvd80rySypFJLmYoOyBKX4uXj10_UNDZMqU0zLUyyMeBax8vqHOPt6hwRbKYT6ewYAAEE9whdNAAAA&biw=1296&bih=626#scso=_dHcCXaO2DKyzgge1i6iwAg2:0[/tag]

Correct. How much of the value I calculated will be covered by Commscope now remains to be seen. But the lawsuit targeted the cable MSOs, and their revenue streams are the guide for damages

Do try to be more specific. I'm afraid you'll convince nobody by simply saying "wrong"

Arris was not listed as one of the 13 cable companies in the original suit

Hunting down the revenue streams of the 13 being sued is harder than I thought. But, on the plus side, intensely more lucrative than I had imagined.

For the averaging calculations, I assumed 0 for any company I couldn't easily find, either because they are owned by one of the other companies being sued,or their revenue is likely too low to drastically alter it. If I only had a limited data set, I extrapolated as little as possible and assumed no growth.

Atlantic Broadband Group - no data, assumed 0 revenue

Bright House Networks - no data, assumed 0 revenue

Cable One - average over 8 year (2011-2018) 629 million. no data before 2013, assumed 0 2011 and 2012

Cablevision - average/year over 8 year (2011-2018) 6.353 billion.
Cequel Communications - average/year over 8 year (2011-2018) 2.313 billion.
Charter Communications - average/year over 8 year (2011-2018) 19.492 billion.
Comcast Communications - average/year over 8 year (2011-2018) 73.453 billion.
Cox Communications - average/year over 8 year (2011-2018) 12.460 billion.
Mediacom Communications - average/year over 8 year (2011-2018) 1.532 billion.
RCN Telecom Services - no data, assumed 0 revenue
Time Warner Cable - no data, assumed 0 revenue
WaveDivision Holdings - hidden behind paywalls. Conservative estimate 325 million/year averaged over 8 years
Wideopen West Finance - average/year over 8 year (2011-2018) 1.102 billion.

Total average per company per year
$9,050,960,949.63 / year

1% total per year value
1,176,624,923.45

Total damages over 7 years for the 13 sued companies
8,236,374,464.17

Price per share after the lawyers take their 30%
$3.58

Treble damages over 7 years for the 13 sued companies
$24,709,123,392.50

Price per share after the lawyers take their 30%
$10.74

These estimates balance having no information for 4 of the 13 against the probability that not every bit of revenue from each company will be liable for patent infringement. I still personally find them a little high, but they are reasonable.

[Edit]
I'd been looking for who the 13 were, specifically. I've found that info
Atlantic Broadband Group
Bright House Networks
Cable One
Cablevision
Cequel Communications
Charter Communications
Comcast Communications
Cox Communications
Mediacom Communications
RCN Telecom Services
Time Warner Cable
WaveDivision Holdings
Wideopen West Finance

Pardon the stupid question, but I understand that Daubert Briefs are validation of expert testimony prior to a trial, but in the schedule they are listed as Answering SJ/Daubert and Rely SJ/Daubert.

Would anybody be able to shed a bit more light on what the answering/reply/SJ bits of these events are?

Ok, which of you needed a McDonalds coffee?

My account picked up an order of 125 shares of UOIP at 0.013.

Don't spend that $1.65 all in one place now, hear?

double annoyance

who is dumping down to 0.012 right now? less than 4 months (hypothetical, there's always a chance for something unexpected) from these pennies to turn into dollars and people are selling lower and lower. Here I am wishing I had more money to buy in, lol.

Also, I got my last batch cheaper than I expected, so put another order in at 0.014, and it hasn't filled, despite multiple other sales at less money than my order. C'mon E*trade, hook me up.

Mark me down for $2.15 good sir. ($5.16 billion buyout)

Why would he bother? he has controlling interest in the company, and does not need anyone else's approval for what happens with UOIP. The company has no profit model, limited reserves, and limited officers. His goal at this point in time is to minimize expenses (including those necessary to get out of the gray) until the trial is over or he has sold the company.

Many of us still think a buyout is the logical next step, where one or more of these companies being sued will purchase UOIP in its entirety, then start demanding royalties for use of the Chanbond Patents from the other infringers. If this happens, then the purchasing company has to buy all the shares for an agreed upon amount. Carter, with over 900 million shares, is looking to be extremely wealthy.

Additionally, because our case for infringement is so strong, Carter knows that he doesn't have to settle for chump change. A treble damage infringement penalty on the 13 could easily push into the seven billion dollar or above range. If this happens, because UOIP has no preferred shares, the damages would be distributed evenly based on respective share counts. This is also a path to lots of money that also leaves the patents in UOIP's hands.

Point being, this stock being pink, grey, or de-listed (dunno why this hasn't happened yet. I suspect the threat of de-listing may have been timed) makes zero difference to carter. If anything, he would probably prefer de-listed for the simple reason of it'll minimize the number of people that need to get tracked down for distribution at the end. He has no motivation to get back into the pinks, and he doesn't care what we think about the situation because we have nothing to offer the situation.

We all aim to get rich, or richer from this case but here on iHub, we are the peanut gallery.

Honestly, the PPS right now is pretty pointless. With you're average company, the PPS is a metric for the health of the company. With this, it's a measure of gamblers' confidence.

UOIP has either phenomenal value, or no value at all, depending on the outcome of the suit, and the people buying and selling the stocks are on opposite sides of that fence.

In a case like this, minor fluctuations in the stock price can have no meaning. Big fluctuations, like the surge up to 0.06 after the Arris win or back down to 0.018 after we went from pink to grey have meaning, but fluctuations of 0.0005 are just white noise in the Reflected-sound-of-underground-spirits

Kind of you to say :)

Maybe half of what I've posted has been analytical. The other half is just pestering for an overall schedule because the one at the top of the board page is pretty out of date.

Where I get a chance, I try to add shares here and there, and I'm thoroughly convinced that this will be an eventual win. The cable companies have adopted a too fail to big strategy, and it's going to cost them. I truly wonder if they don't see the danger, or if hubris is simply preventing them from believing that patent law could legitimately apply to them.

Can this still fail? 'Course it can. when it comes to what will likely amount to the largest and highest billing patent infraction case in US history, there's immense pressure on the defendants to not lose it, and the respective war chest available to their legal team is balanced against what they expect to lose, should the trial go against them. I'd not be surprised if some very... let's say "creative" defense mechanism still can be employed and have to be shot down before this reaches a conclusion. maybe something will come of one of them. I don't think it will, but that's the risk with penny stocks.

There's another advantage to this whole SCOTUS fiasco. I'd actually say that where we are at currently is an ideal situation. I cannot in reasonable conscience believe that the SCOTUS will rule that congress' law regarding IPR past a reasonable deadline could mean uninjured but dissatisfied parties can indefinitely appeal IPR decisions. That's a rabbit hole of defendants hiring "interested parties" dissatisfied with the results of the loss.

This is going to get tossed out. Especially bearing in mind the SG recommendation, which is a very reliable metric for whether the SCOTUS will take the case.

The flip side of this, the SCOTUS docket is a very visible forum. Visibility is our friend in this case. Was I in Arris' shoes, I would have tried to buy off ChanBond early in the process and hide all this under the rug. It's way too late for that, and like a snowball, the longer and more snowy the hill the more impressive the collision will be at the bottom.

Has there been a recent post regarding timelines (I.E. the appeal with the patent review board and trial dates)?

I think the amount of money some people have been sharing is, while conservative, unlikely to be so low. My conservative estimate is a $1.5b settlement/buyout. At that settlement, after the lawyers take their 33% off the top, that leaves $983m, split between 1.6b shares, to a total share price of $0.61 a share. Optimistically, I also think we could see as high as $2.5b settlement, with a final share price of $1.05 a share. I find it likely that the final result will be somewhere in between the two. Either way, super excited to be a part of this group and this win.

Thank you Allin, can always count on you to be up to speed :)

looking forward to the next two months.

Well, it looks like it's been an interesting few weeks. Not having any more money to put in, I elected to hold and see what happens next after the potential de-listing message came through. No worries, I've got faith and I'm long.

Out of curiosity, is there an update on the general court schedule moving forward?