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There we go!
I think we can all agree that this is now a settled issue.
If someone wants to pursue this, they are welcome to. I hope they do!
At the end of all this, there should be no "we should have done xxxx".
If someone finds that this is indeed easy and cost effective, I am happy to donate towards whatever the costs may be.
Have a great day everyone!
It is clear from posts here that the legal group has no issue with anyone pursuing this. Them saying it is potentially difficult and costly is not the same as them saying "don't do it". I'm sure they would love to be proved wrong.
That barrier is out of that way.
If anyone thinks this is a good idea, they should do it.... and I hope it works out!
It is clear to me that there are a lot of smart people here who have a lot of knowledge. It's also clear that there are different ideas about which pursuit is best. Lastly, there are different ideas about what our core group was responsible for.
I want to post this to ensure that no one can say, after the fact, that "such and such group should have done this or that". No monday morning quarterbacking! If you have knowledge about a process that you believe will help us, Go for it! If you know something but need a couple of other people to help (someone who lives in DE) then get them onboard! We lose nothing by this, and the core group has made it clear that they have no objection.
The other side wins if we get so caught up in infighting that we neglect to take action.
Not questioning your knowledge or experience. I trust that and it's far greater than what I have, which is none.
I'm simply saying that the larger leanings of these states isn't necessarily relevant here if we are looking at one specific issue.
DE can be friendly in all other areas, but in this case if we would have extensive costs and burdens to take over ( as one lawyer had said)... then DE being nice in all other areas doesn't help us.
Now, that being said... as I recall.. this advice was from one lawyer we weren't even paying...
I have dealt with many professionals over the years who had no idea what they were talking about.. (CPAs mostly... who would talk down to me in trying to apply broad rules on cost basis, 1099 reporting, etc. to retirement accounts. I loved just letting them yell at me in front of their client while I pulled the relevant section from Publication 590 to show them what the facts were. Funny enough though... rarely if ever did I get an apology. Ok I digress)
Point is.... it's entirely possible that this DE info is wrong, and this lawyer who told us it wasn't worth pursuing was wrong. It seems a group of people here believe that. It also seems that there is no objection from our representatives to anyone pursuing this avenue. Further, it also seems that they don't see it is their role. So... if anyone believes this is best route to go... I see no good reason for it not to be pursued.
We are comparing two states on a very broad scale, but this is a very narrow issue.
In the same way that a very liberal state might have elected a conservative to some office or another ( and vice versa)... DE might be restrictive on this particular issue regardless of whether they are broadly friendly or not.
I don't have all the old posts, but I believe there was some cost and proof needed in order to become custodian. It seemed to be a burden. From today's posts, it seems clear that there is no objection to someone pursuing this... which seemed to be the only obstacle.
So.. if it's a good idea, and if someone wants to do it.. then nothing should stop them. If and when we get a legal team together, I'm sure that group would be spending most of their time working with the lawyer, so it seems reasonable not to assume that they'd also have the time to pursue this avenue. As far as I know, everything everyone has done here ( providing in person updates, tracking down pacers, etc. etc.) has all been unpaid, so while different folks have taken on different burdens, I don't see anyone having any particular responsibility to do anything. Obviously all the time and effort that's been put in has been great... but I disagree with the idea that by working for the good of the group anyone has created a situation where they 'owe' anything to the rest of us.
If someone wants to put this effort together, then I'd encourage them to organize it, figure out what's needed ($) and then pursue it. We can agree all we want to in writing, but money is what talks, and so whoever wants to do this can make the case, ask for whatever funds are needed, and then do it.
I guess I'm not clear... You are saying that we should do this, but then you said it would conflict with any legal strategy we may eventually come up with so we shouldn't. It's difficult for me to reconcile these two. If you're saying it's not possible and we've already gone another direction, then what is the point of talking about it? If it is possible, then why not go on and do it? You've got my vote (if such a thing is needed lol)
I know there was some discussion about this a while ago where we had asked a potential attorney for us and I think they said it would be way too expensive or the burden of proof would be too high.... but maybe they were just trying to get us to hire them or something. Who knows?
Either way... I don't see anyone here objecting to you taking action. maybe that's gone on behind the scenes though?
I guess I'm not clear... You are saying that we should do this, but then you said it would conflict with any legal strategy we may eventually come up with so we shouldn't. It's difficult for me to reconcile these two. If you're saying it's not possible and we've already gone another direction, then what is the point of talking about it? If it is possible, then why not go on and do it? You've got my vote (if such a thing is needed lol)
I know there was some discussion about this a while ago where we had asked a potential attorney for us and I think they said it would be way too expensive or the burden of proof would be too high.... but maybe they were just trying to get us to hire them or something. Who knows?
Either way... I don't see anyone here objecting to you taking action. maybe that's gone on behind the scenes though?
I'd presume that the reason they didn't go that route is because they disagree on merits/ Because of that, I don't see where your action could have any negative impact. I know many people have made individual efforts (Tony writing letters, for example). Even though there is disagreement over the effectiveness, I haven't heard anyone argue that we are worse off because of what he did. (I happen to believe we are better off.)
Unless someone has specifically asked you not to, I'd say go for it. THrow the kitchen sink at this thing. At worst, it alerts Billy that multiple people here are working towards a favorable outcome for owners. What's the harm in that?
I don't see where these resolutions were mutually exclusive. THe folks I know who were looking into this are on the other side of the country, whereas it seems you live closer to DE. I don't see where there's any "in control" in the sense that whatever group was going to take action for us never said (to my knowledge) that no one else should take unrelated action.
If someone lives in or near DE... file this thing and see what happens.
If I lived near there and had the conviction that you did, I would have done this regardless of what anyone else was doing. None of us came into this with any specialized 'professional' knowledge, and I didn't know about this option nor would I expect anyone else to, nor would I hold them responsible for not doing something I wasn't willing to do myself.
As far as I know... no money has changed hands in this settlement.
So.... why haven't you applied to be custodian? You'd have my vote (If there is such a thing?). Can one apply remotely?
What are the steps to doing that. I would assume that if we get legal help, they will consider that and pursue it if it is worthwhile.
Do you have lawyers telling you this? (and if so.. what steps are they suggesting we take?)
Surely there's a process that governs disposition of funds where the outcome isn't contingent on such a tangental action as naming a custodian??
well perhaps we will someday. What makes you so sure it's not possible?
Good afternoon!
Good questions....I am simply going by what was reported when people reached out a few months back. As I recall, any lawyer who initially reviewed the case advised that if allegations in the TRO were true... then what Billy did was illegal.
While there are non-disclosures for settlements....those are still subject to discovery and there is potential for lawyers to file to review those to ensure that nothing illegal happened. Seen it before.
That is why I support taking legal action. Without that, as you've said, we'd never know if we're getting a 'fair' amount or not.
Ouch!
Yeah, it matters if he can't get to the money until everything is resolved.
Obviously I agree that if he gets the funds first, then all the financial stuff I wrote is out the window. Everything in there was predicated upon the idea that he can't touch it, or we get a TRO or something.
If he gets access to the money and doesn't pay us out... It probably bolsters our case... but also means we'll have a long fight on our hands.
We'll see.....
Everyone has been speculating and I've seen a lot of low numbers lately… While I don't know a per share $ because we don't know the settlement amount, I do believe we'll get our fair share of whatever that is. Here is what we know:
1. Deirdre is saying Billy owes her north of $250,000.
2. In the TRO, Deirdre alleged that Billy took loans vie Bentham for personal expenses.
3. We know $5million will be owed for purchase of patents.
4. We know that when many folks consulted lawyers about potentially taking on our case… they were told that, if Deirdre's allegations were true, Billy's actions would have been illegal.
Here are some conclusions I would draw from those and other things we know:
#1, There are quite a few of us who would support seeing this through. Where each of us would have a small share of any financial burden to fight this… Billy would be going it alone.
#2. Billy has enough going on. Dierdre, Bentham, paying different lawyers, etc. whereas we have a narrower focus…. Just Billy.
#3. We have the law on our side.. What lawyer is going to front Billy money to fight a losing battle? They are going to want $$$ up front, and if they're good, they are going to tell him that it's a waste of millions and he'll not only lose but possibly have to pay treble damages. There is no risk of treble damages on our side.
#4. Few if any of us owe someone hundreds of thousands of dollars… While I know we want to get money ASAP, I imagine Billy does to an even greater extent than we do. His "fair and square" amount is still going to be very high.. I'm sure he'd rather have $xxx million now sitting on a beach somewhere.. than being in debt while fighting it out for scraps for years (where after penalty and legal fees he may end up with less anyways.)
#5. Pressure…. Bentham, lawyers, etc. are incentivized to get this thing finished, and can pressure Billy into doing so…. Especially if they see that he is in the wrong. No such pressure would apply to shareholders. We have 'nothing to lose', and none of the other stakeholders has anything to hold over our heads like they may with Billy.
For the reasons above, I think some of the low estimates around here really don't account for the solid position we are in. We have strength in numbers, we have focus, we have the law, we have funds, we have patience. If Dierdre's TRO and other filings we've seen are to be believed, Billy has none of those things. I like our chances and look forward to a fight and/or resolution.
Have a great day everyone!
Your positivity is appreciated... Hope you beat this thing and get many years to enjoy the fruits of your efforts.
For the record, I too am optimistic that we deserve, and will get, more than 10 cents per share.
These are interesting questions.. Why would lease revenue decline? Are we losing hospitals?
If anything, discounts should be on the front end so even if things were stagnant, we'd expect to see an increase just because of back-loaded revenues.
Great to hear!
And that's an awesome pic by the way... you look right at home. Glad to see that your beard is masked up! :) :) :)
Happy Sunday to you as well!
I know of at least one instance where this did happen with a friend. Then again, we KNOW they were giving product to healthcare workers for free.
I believe the goal there was to get our name out there.. and we did... we were on the news.
I am fine with the shakeup, but deals with distributors falls on Gary. Let's not pretend that the change is going to have any retroactive effect on those deals.
DE Is a distributor and is still holding his stock, so to me that tells me that he thinks it's a 'win-win' and believes in the JV. etc.
I haven't seen anything about uplisting. Why wouldn't we uplist by now?
Within a couple of months, all companies that are not current cannot be invested in. This means that funds will flow to companies (like us) that are legit.
Lets make sure we're positioned for that... It seems Uplisting would help with that. I would love to see that happen right when we get some good news.
THe company said we were going to have a shareholder meeting in Q2. We have had no updates on that. I am patient/hopeful/excited and so I can wait, but I don't love the look that we're not doing what we said. I'd rather nothing be said at all than timeframes given and then not followed. If Nick wants to establish us as reliable, industry leader, etc.. then lets follow through!
Also... no one cares about this place, so you posting in here is fine, but I seriously think that a short edit to tweets from the official company handle are sorely needed.
"use all their resources at there disposal" for example, is fine to say here on the hub... but why in the world wouldn't you edit before Tweeting stuff like that? I see a typo in almost everythink you Tweet. The message is the same, but it's not a great look. It's Ike if you show up to a restaurant and the chef has a dirty apron and is all sweaty or something. THe food may taste good, but the image is what sticks with you. The future is exciting... I'm super-long. but PLEASE... have someone edit the Twitter posts before posting. It takes 5 minutes and could make all the difference. I am happy to do it for you for free...
Have a great weekend sir!
It was stipulated up front.
Out on vacation for a week starts today. Ya'll need to have some good news waiting when I get back. Let's do this!
A while ago, I wrote to HR to ask... if there is so much value in these old wells.... value that we see but others don't.... why stop at just selling fluids?
Instead... why not vertically integrate and set up a business to buy up these old "worthless" wells and capture the real value there?
Now... I'm not claiming credit if they're really able to get that done... I'm sure they'd planned this all along... but it's just exciting to see them making moves to capture value. REassures me we're in good hands. These are exciting times and while I'd love to see success ASAP, I am also excited to buy shares until it does.
I wonder if Brett Rosen will get in on the REg D JV offering. Would not surprise me.
+1
wohoooo!
LOve it! As always, thank you for posting.
Glad to hear that results might come pretty quickly.
Holding my shares and hoping to add more. Please keep updating us every now and again.
can you summarize what DE posted? Hate that I missed one that was later removed.
Congrats on owning over 1% of this company. My goal is to get there soon if some other things work out.
I have to believe there are quite a few of us holding pretty tightly. Coiled spring for when something good happens. We shall see
Roll PCTL and Roll Tide :)
I am buying too, but I'm a little concerned about your post... Lines 3/4 are longer than the ones before.
I think you're slacking :)
Glad I added a few today, and not too worried about when the PR comes out. As you said... they said this week, and it's still this week. Everyone needs to chill!
I added 100k shares today at $0.0169
Noteworthy that WTI is up $1.00 a barrel on the day. We are investing in potential, and I believe the potential gets exponentially better as oil prices increase.
Good luck everyone!
How soon are you thinking, and why are you thinking this? Thanks!
Also... Would like to hear your perspective on what Sun Pacific's role in the Australia project would be.
Thanks!
I've been following for a while and am confused. The excitement I see around this stock and the price just don't seem to match.
All the great posts and DD on here... Yet no one seems to actually be buying. I know there are a lot of positive people here, I am one.. But are we all poor and tapped out?
What is it going to take to actually move the price?
First.... Happy Birthday sir!
Second.... I'd agree, but... it wasn't a suggestion I made so no value judgment is needed. It was a 'what if'. I was just asking if it was possible that he'd try to do that. Pay a bit to appease us. I don't mean that to be seen as me advocating for that.
Actually, I wanted to go on and bring it up now because I want us all to be prepared. If he tries to pay us off with a lowball amount...I hope no one gets too excited. In fact, I'd hope a lot of us would turn around and use some or all of it to add what we could to a legal fund to get our fair share.
I know I would!
was that ever verified?
Hope none of them are disgruntled ex-shareholders lol.
Any ideas how long it takes to go from term sheet to the next step? (funding?).
We've been waiting a long time for a lot of stuff.... (UL/uplist/med/durango). would still love to see it all happen at once.. hopefully this year. We shall see.
If I'm a criminal, I'd probably send a little something just to placate folks. It would not cost him much to send a penny or two a share, with the intention of knocking the wind out of the sails of people who'd pursue justice.
Not saying he will, I really don't know.. Just curious if anyone sees something like that happening.
Good afternoon!
Curious to hear people's thoughts about when we'd first see $$ from this.
Question is mostly around... Does Billy pay us what he thinks we should get and then we go after the rest.... or is he going to be stopped ( by Dierdre or us) from sending anything at all until it is all worked out?
I'm sure this has been discussed, but just kind of blanking right now.
Thanks!
Fair points I don't disagree with.
I believe Nick has the ability to see some of these things through. I like that he dreams big, I like that he's bold enough to ask billionaires to be involved in projects with him, and I like that he's stuck with it... He's been doing this with SNPW for a long time.
Am I 100% everything will work out? No... but for a penny stock to have a guy who is confident enough in himself that he puts his house on the line... I feel confident enough to hold on and see how it all goes.
Again, not a certainty.. but I like my chances. We shall see.
Could be.
You'd think most folks would have decided where they think it's headed by now though. Whether one thinks it's headed up or down, surely we can agree that it's not great to unload such a large position on that low volume. Drove price down by more than 10% on that one trade. Seems better to break it into smaller trades.
Anyway, best to all here!
It's really not... any more than SHMP pullback was somehow that CEO's fault.
Your numbers are arbitrary.
THis is a penny stuck and it was driven up by people ( like me) who thought RI would get approved. Reality set in that it wasn't a sure thing... and sure enough... it didn't get approved. I lost a lot from January to now. A heartbreaking amount.
Nevertheless.. none of that is Nick's fault. If we go BK, yes that's his fault. If these projects don't work out or if he has to dilute... yeah, that's on him... the 95% drop isn't his fault. Sorry, it just isn't.
He's not supposed to be out there being a chearleader, he's supposed to be doing business. He's doing it. Penny stocks rise and tank on a whim. THat's the nature of these things.
Speaking of penny stocks... I do wish we'd see news of an uplist soon. We've been over a penny for a while now....
Thank you for posting this!
She loaned Billy $300k.
THoughts:
-THat's dangerous for him. Who loans someone else that much? What did he promise in order to get that much?
-Sounds like Billy needs this whole thing to be resolved pretty quickly. I don't have a lot, but I also don't live in a $1.5M house, and I don't owe $300k plus whatever he got from Bentham.
-Is this just a step in the process? Once Dierdre proves that Billy owes her that much... Is it easy to then prove the nature of their business relationship?
-She loaned him money as late as April of last year. Interesting that the TRO was only 6 months later.
Lot of scrutiny on Billy... even though this one is not particularly related to us, I believe it's a good thing... He needs to dot his I's and cross his T's, and maybe that will make the effort to get our fair share a little easier.
If it had never gone up to 35 cents, no one would be complaining. 2 cents is still higher than where it was a year ago. A big rise and then drop over a few days is not his fault.
He's not the one who ran it up to 35 cents. It was hyped and pumped. That's not his fault. Denise is an expert at her job. THat's not his fault. RI broke the law and while maybe it should have been foreseen.... still not his fault. Price in the marketplace is up to us, not him. Not saying NIck is perfect... but share price moves... that's not on him.
Dierdre's claims are not our claims... just for the record.. While we are similar in that she owns shares as well... I believe she is alleging some extra level of ownership and say in the company.. from the perspective that she is a part owner.
We as shareholders would say that Billy as the majority shareholder has a fiduciary duty to act in our best interest. There is a clear path here, so if Chanbond, which UOIP owns, creates self-dealing transactions that would hurt us... those could be unwound just as easily as transactions Billy did in a UOIP capacity.
I'd remind people that while it may be discouraging that this could go on for a while.. There were multiple legal folks who reviewed the situation and all agreed that if Dierdre's allegations were true, Billy's actions were illegal. If Dierdre loses, that does not mean we would lose.
We're coming at this from very different angles.. I believe ours is much better than hers. ( Though I'd love to have as many shares as she does!).