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Hi Ron. Forgive this request, I assume you have probably already provided what I’m about to ask for.
Per your comments that I have pasted below, can you provide the link or links or something that confirms a WMI suit of $307.2 Billion against the FDIC and the resulting judgement requiring JPM to pay Full Book Value for WMB = $299 Billion?
Thank you.
—————-
“Yes indeed; WMI sued the FDIC for $307.2 Billion. The DC Dual Track.
Ruled; JPM is to pay Full Book Value for WMB and it’s assets.
The FDIC;
$299 Billion for WMB and it’s Assets.
Their numbers, not mine!!!”
I’ll take it if it happens the way Ron suggests, or the way AZ suggests, or the way Large Green suggests or the way Boris suggests😀✅💪❗️ I appreciate you all👍. Let’s do this….
Thank you Boris, I was hoping you would weigh in on your latest LIBOR thoughts. And one thing I’ve learned in liife😀…2 or 3 months from now will come quickly…I know this is all in your opinion, but thanks for the update✅
Thank you Newflow👍, this is the exact ballot that I completed AND I completed it exactly how AZ described it should be completed.
In light of this ballot being signed by me in a timely manner, this ballot being a CUSIP 939322 103 ballot, I am thinking AZ might agree I am in good position.
Based on this and rereading AZ’s two responses to my questions on 7/16 (one response at 10:49am and the other at 10:18am), I think” I better understand AZ’s comments….quoted below
“many, many, many years ago ... only the documents submitted with ALL of the necessary cusip digits, ... Would Be Important ...”
“The Release Documents that were submitted to "Participate" within the Court Approved, WMI Holding Company's 2012 Reorganization' are Cusip specific to ones Ownership of the Holding Company ... these Documents show the Relevant and Continuing Value Related Cusip Number ... “
Bobby comments: the two above quotes from AZ make me think I and others like me are good✅ by AZ standards since the documents submitted are with the correct CUSIP number.
However, this next quote by AZ on 7/16, emphasizes “ REGISTERED” and unless this was automatically registered, then I fall short. See quote immediately below.
“A properly Plan Released & "REGISTERED" wamuq common share ... cusip # 939322 10 3”
Bobby comment: Finally, this additional 7/16 reply comment from AZ (immediately below) is concerning to me… but I’m hopeful it doesn’t apply to my situation because my ballot was not an “esc” cusip, but instead was CUSIP 939322 103.
“Bobby, the "esc" cusips issued by the wmi-lt, ... WERE NOT "EVER" ALIGHNED ... With the Value of the WMI Holding Company and All of its Values, ... the WMI Assets That Were "NOT" Court Allowed to be considered within "ONLY" the "WMI Holding Company's" Filing for Chapter 11 in 2008', and then in its "Reorganization" in 2012' ~”
Remaining hopeful - but still unknowing in all this… Bobby
Thanks Newflow…but there is only one CUSIP on my ballot = 939322 103.
However, my brokerage account recorded my escrow as 939ESC968.
OK AZ and anyone else who wants to chime in…just a little more…
First, I understand if you are tired of this topic, but here goes.
Second, of major note: in the middle of page 1 on the ballot that I completed and signed it says in bold (CUSIP NO. 939322 103). On each subsequent page in the bottom right corner, it says it again.
I tried to post a picture of my release document, with no success, but on the page of interest for item 1, I listed my number of common equity interest shares. For item 2 I checked “Accept the Plan” and left “Reject the plan” unchecked. For item 3, I left the box unchecked for “Elect to opt out…”
I also completed the W9 that was provided and which also has the CUSIP 999322 103 printed on the bottom right corner.
However, long before my escrow number disappeared from my brokerage account, I printed copies and that number is 939ESC968.
I never saw a second ballot, so this is what I have. Am I out of any soon to come or later to come distributions even though the documents I completed were for CUSIP 999322 103 documents? It seems to me these documents I completed registered me. What about any possible LIBOR distributions.
Much thanks
That’s helpful CKaufman, so the key to receiving the common escrow number with a 3 isn’t to being an institutional investor - thank you. Again, forgive my lack of knowledge, but your comment is that you received a “second ballot.” So, upon release, did you receive an escrow number with an ESC in the middle and upon receipt of a “second ballot,” did you complete the ballot and then receive a new escrow number with a 3? Is this what you are saying?
Or might Newflows response be the key?
“Institutional investors are usually registered where as individuals who buy stock thru brokerages, they are not.”
So only institutional investors received “registered” escrow numbers?
Thank you for your 2nd reply AZ and please forgive my ignorance. I read your reply to state that you came to realize you needed the cusp number with the 3, but it’s not clear to me - concerning the commons - if you also originally had the number with the ESC? Then, if so, upon your realization what action did you take to register and receive the number with the 3?
Thank you silly investor, my moniker should have been ignorant investor😀, but here I am…I have all my paperwork and documentation and yes, I received WMIH stock in proportion to how many common shares of WAMU I had owned and I have never sold any of it as it went through the reverse split and then symbol change to COOP. I still own all of that, I never added to the investment or reduced the investment. However, I never received any kind of registered escrow number without the ESC in the middle. I still just don’t understand what I missed and maybe I never will…but no complaints☝️
Thanks AZ, At this point it doesn’t matter… but I would think that anyone like me, who owned common shares and signed a timely 2012 release, wouldn’t they have received the escrow number like me, with ESC in the middle? Are you saying that after I received my ESC number, I then needed to register it to receive the cusip # 939322 10 3? Or did I miss a registration step when I sent in my release document?
My WAMU/WMIH/COOP story
In late 2010, a friend told me about the WAMU bankruptcy. Shortly after that, I had a little money available - that I could afford to lose- so I took a chance and bought some WAMU commons, not knowing anything about bankruptcy investment etc. Yes, I hear you AZ😀, I broke a basic investment rule to “know what you own,” - and I knew nothing except my friend had high hopes, so I took a shot.
Then, I followed the advice of this friend and others on the Yahoo message board and signed timely releases and not long after that, the two accounts with my common shares showed my escrow markets, with an ESC in the middle of the number. Assuming the ESC stood for escrow, I felt I was in position to wait this out. I had determined to hold my WAMU common shares that became WMIH and ultimately COOP and though my investment from 2010 has more than doubled, I know that over 14 years, it is not an exciting gain. And I continue to hold the COOP shares that evolved from back in 2010.
My real hope for gain has always been my Escrow markers, which yes, are no longer visible in my two accounts. I still don’t understand all the complexities and am too busy to even try…and I have no intention of ever getting involved in bankruptcy investments again…so I wait.
My hope in escrows has been deflated recently as I hear my escrows should have been registered. This was news to me, but if true - iI take responsibility - I should “know what I own.”
That’s my story and I’m sticking to itt👍. No matter what happens, I am blessed. Best wishes to all and may God bless America.
Ron and Boris, concernjng LIBOR, I see the 6/24 voluntary dismissal on docketbird. With my zero experience, it seems to read LIBOR is over and their is no consequence for the guilty banks.
Would you mind giving your take on this…and if you have, and I missed it, would you mind linking to your explanation?
Sincere thanks
Ron and Boris, I we you are projecting LIBOR is about to complete, which is very good news. However, when I do a Google search for a LIBOR update, I can’t seem to find any news like that. Where can I (and others) look to see actual LIBOR updates? Much thanks for all your research etc.
Hey AZ, it’s been a while but I still read all your messages✅. Concerning the 13 page SEC doc to Kerry Killinger that you linked to that tells us of “the DE-REGISTERING of millions of common shares in October of 2008' ...” - I’m not able to find that in the document. Please forgive my inexperience, but could you identify the page and paragraph?
Much thanks,
Bobby
Monica Law
Ms. Law - do you have anything that can add to the discussion on whether those who released might 1) still receive some money and 2) on a LIBOR payout? If yes, thoughts on amount and timing of each? Much thanks.
Well saiid Exo… calm and direct . Good job and very encouraging✅
Ron, concerning Libor and money coming to us…?
Who would the money go to concerning injured WAMU stockholders? I signed to release, but it seems that wouldn’t matter? Would it be to shareholders of record when the bankruptcy took place or shareholders of record on the day that WAMU stock quit trading?
Thanks for any insight you can provide in this regard.
Bobby
Monica Law…are you still out there? ,If so…any new thoughts on some $ coming back to those who released? Thank you.
Hi Ron, concerningWMI suing the FDIC for $307.2B… what is the status of this lawsuit? Thank you.
AZ, I think Lodas just identified you as “the most intellectual”😀… great job✅ ❗️❗️❗️
Speaking of Large Green… hey Large, I’ve always appreciated your posts…but you haven’t told us lately how much you love your timely releases escrows… ❗️❗️ What say you?
Royal, your post contains such specificity and seeming confidence and without any qualifiers such as “one possible scenario…” or at least “IMHO”. How confident are you? Much thanks. Bobby
Ray, are you saying that your escrow account from Lehman Brothers disappeared and then came back? Thank you.
That could work for me😀✅
Royal and Diamond, I’m pleased that you are so excited about this and hope that you are correct. However, I have two questions that quickly come to mind.
1) I don’t see what the merger of Coop and Home have to do with this. Can you explain?
2) As I read this document, it seems that payments to escrows should have began after all the 2009 tax liabilities (and refunds) had been worked out. Granted, this could have taken many years, but not this long. I can Imagine that non-believers would read this and say since no money has been released, there is none. Can you help explain this?
Forgive me if I am missing the key points here. Thanks
Hi Boris, can you help me understand why the LIBOR change matters. Any changes (such as moving to SOFR) will affect current and future rates of interest, but I don’t see them changing the interest charges or interest gained from the past. If that’s true, why would LIBOR hold up the payments to Escrows?
Thanks in advance…
LG and others, I agree with this comment by nightdaytrader…please keep posting and letting us know when you see some things happening that might lead to escrow payments. Don’t be discouraged by some of the comments. We should all know that as you anticipate future developments and you apply due diligence - it is a projection - not a promise and that’s what this forum is for✅.
LG, is the Home Point acquisition what you thought might trigger some money being released to the escrow holders or was it something else? Much thanks
Hi LG, thank you for your always positive posts. I know you can’t speak specifics about the possibilities on or before 7/21… but this question….
What do you think about Boris the Spiders post last week concerning the statute of limitations? I am pasting it below… Thank you.
From Boris
So, on the statute of limitations in Sept...
The reason that they previously said no settlement could occur while there was potential for litigation, could explain why no distributions could happen.
Now stay with me here...it could be why the hedgies haven't pursued legal action and have remained quiet. They knew that they had to wait for this 15 year period to pass. Those who did not release, plus the employees who lost their jobs, could have sued if disbursements were made before the 15 yrs was up. Now, once the 15 years passes, disbursements could happen to the hedgies and escrow holders without the encumbrance of a multitude of lawsuits from the employees and non releasers.
This could explain why nothing's happened. Once the statute passes, any funds can be distributed without legal action from those other parties.
Think about it. Makes sense. Even if you don't believe in the hundreds of billions in assets, it's indisputable that there is ~$30B sitting on the sidelines for escrows. Let's see how this all plays out. But the silence of the hedgies has been deafening. This may be why.
Also, remember, escrows were not issued till 2012. So this 15 year period does not apply to escrows in 2023. If funds are not disbursed after the Sept date then law suits could commence from the hedgies.
It's a hot mess, but this could make sense.
Now, this is a post that makes good sense… though it makes LG’s 7/21 date seem too soon…
Royal Dude, I also appreciate your research and knowledge and hopeful comments. Of course, we will soon see???. Could you comment on one lingering doubt that remains in my effort to be careful and logical? If true, why were our escrow markers removed from our investment accounts?
Sincere thanks. Bobby
AZ, my take from your posts of years ago was plain and simple that those of us who signed timely releases would be rewarded in a big way. When you talked about the stock price being “the tell”, I understood it to mean it would be “the tell” as to when those of us who signed timely releases would be rewarded in the big way. Your comments as of late are rejoicing at your success in buying at the $5 level (or so) and riding it to$45 (or so). Congrats on that, but those of us who signed timely releases are still waiting and if you are addressing this anymore, you are not being clear. AZ, did I misunderstand you all of those years about significant napkin math dollars coming to those with timely releases or were you just saying those who purchase WMIH at $5 would be rewarded? Thank you in advance.
Exo’s comments and Boris’ reply make sense to me and keep my hope alive??. In particular, this comment “But the hedgies and UWs are waiting patiently without lawsuits. They know. Simple.”
To all who say there is no money left for escrows….how do you explain the November 2015 document that Large Green just linked us to? How do you explain that at the bottom of page 7, it clearly states that WAMU had $299B and didn’t owe any money?
Much thanks. Bobby
Praying for you and Kay????????
Thank you as always AZ??. I take from your comment “…I'm NOT Sure of what remains…” that though you believe money is still coming to the escrow accounts, it may not be the significant amount you estimated in your “napkin math.” That is fine, it is what it is and I remain grateful of all your efforts in due diligence.
However, though I can’t pinpoint the exact time, it seems to my limited understanding that the context of your position has changed. I will try to explain. In previous years, I felt as though the context of “COOP is the tell” was that when we see COOP rise, it is telling us that our escrow accounts would soon benefit in a significant way. However, it seems now your context is we should have bought COOP all the years you were telling us COOP is the tell and COOP is still a great investment. You don’t seem to bring up escrows anymore unless we ask etc. it’s ok if the napkin math estimate was incorrect, it was just an estimate, everyone is trying to unravel the truth here, but are you now revising the napkin math estimate to be a much smaller event, hardly worth the discussion?
Thanks again. Bobby
Hi again AZ, you have certainly been correct about the COOP stock price. I may be missing it, but where a good bit of focus used to be on the escrows, you don’t seem to be discussing them. In January, you thought they might be imminent and a little earlier, you gave us some napkin math. Do you still think this is imminent even though the escrows have been deleted from our accounts? If yes, how might that happen? If no, that’s ok, but can you address escrows specifically?
Much thanks, Bobby
Hi again AZ, you have certainly been correct about the COOP stock price. I may be missing it, but where a good bit of focus used to be on the escrows, you don’t seem to be discussing them. In January, you thought they might be imminent and a little earlier, you gave us some napkin math. Do you still think this is imminent even though the escrows have been deleted from our accounts? If yes, how might that happen? If no, that’s ok, but can you address escrows specifically?
Much thanks, Bobby
MonicaLaw, have you moved on? What are your escrow thoughts and conclusions? Thank you. Bobby