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Johnny: sorry — what is “CIC”?
Dion
After so many years of holding, finally had to sell my remaining position because of financial problems. Still have a nice sized P escrow amount so I will continue to check the board for developments; but I am sad to have to relinquish my part in this long, hard saga. Bittersweet; I remember the day in court when commons got thrown under the bus and I watched with horror as my portfolio bled out, which was the event that made me convert all my holdings to Preferred before the conversion took place. So many high hopes for intelligent choices leading to financial reward have been bludgeoned over the past decade that I now feel I have to throw up my hands and admit that as usual, the lawyers are the only real winners and the common man but a dreamer in search of a brief moment in the sun.
- Dion
Sorry - have been out of the loop for a while. Any projected timeline for such 75/25 distribution?
Dion
Real,
I HAVE to come out of lurking to ask ... WHY?
Why would we lose NOLs unless Chapter 11 is filed?
I've not heard this presented anywhere before, and I don't understand how you make the assertion.
Can you point out evidence or documentation that proves, or even implies this?
Thank you,
Dion
Lurking, and in for several million shares ......
Why not hit the ask, along with Value Investor, if you are both vested, to get the ball rolling?
I'm sure that if the pps suddenly woke up with a surge, it would catalyze others to start to chase!
My own tank is empty because I loaded at .0003; but if either of you started to slap the ask, those who monitor movement in triple O tickers would have their alerts triggered!
DP
Unfortunately, Boris, I think human nature being what it is will cause just the opposite to happen. If there WERE a Boom, and Escrows got paid, most who have held and twisted and questioned their sanity will pull the plug on their investment and cash out at the first opportunity of realizing something. PPS would probably start to crash, as the escrow markers, and the WMIH investment shares, are very different ideological artifacts of the BK.
Dion
Thank you, Sir.
That is a good list, and a solid artifact that needs to be kept in mind -- and saved to disk -- when reflecting on why we're all still here.
Dion
As am I; and I wonder as you do.
2.5% of 0 is 0. Do any arithmetic function you like; the sum is still the same.
Dion
After Hours trading:
After Hours Share Volume
16:12 $ 3.25 High 11
16:09 $ 2.58 Low 11
Silly. 4:09 pm, trade vol. 11 shares, $2.58
4:12 pm, trade vol. 11 shares, $3.25.
So we open tomorrow at $3.25 on an 11 share trade after hours.
Dion
Isn't the simple answer to the .40-.50 drop from the high a simple matter of taking profits, .40 on each share sold, for those with large holdings who knew it would open high and set their sells accordingly?
If I had several hundred thousand shares of WMIH, I would have taken 25% of my holdings and taken some profit off the table, still holding onto 75% of my stake. Wouldn't you?
500,000 shares.
1/4 = 125,000 shares.
125,000 x $3.00 = $375,000
125,000 x $2.50 = $312,500
Subtract, = $62,500 profit for a moment's work, with 375,000 WMIH shares still in my holdings, waiting for the next leg up.
Dion
First indication of movement upward:
Despite the notion that many believe WMIH on the OTC was an uncharitable entity, and that patterns did not apply as indicators of movement, present or future, I would draw your attentions backward about 9-10 days to posts 435210 and 435218 (mine, followed by Don's validation).
With Monday's uplist to the NASDAQ exchange, I would suggest to fellow board members, especially chartists, that there may be value in paying somewhat closer attention to charts and indicators as "first glimpses" into pps movements that are 2-14 days off into the future.
Being on the NAS -- while certainly no assurance that manipulation and mm games are eradicated from a day's activities -- does lift some of the fog that obfuscated charting or seeing patterns in the stock's movement while it lived on the OTC.
I think this is a very good thing, as it allows us to use one more set of tools with which to hack through the underbrush and clear our vision of the paths that lie before us.
Waiting for Monday with a glad heart,
Dion
Still here, still hopeful (always), and still have a leaning toward facts and quantitative proofs that can be indexed or linked to a document(s) -- but I also think there is a time and place for ellipses of logic and leaps of faith, if things start to look like they are lining up in positive ways, even if some of the lining-up is from inferences made from the argument that an absence of certain key points has as much meaning as proof of their existence/inclusion.
I'm not one to throw anything out except the absolutely absurd, or posts with disinformational intent made because of a personal objective, or posts that repeat an incessant whining over a single point or points that cannot be solved on this board or alleviated by some action of any member of this board.
Other than that, I gladly remain, having gained a unique education, reading all viewpoints, and speaking up only when I am moved to do so (like my prior comment observing the charting trend of the Bollinger bands tightening up and readying for a crossover upward about a week ago, which to me was a pattern I have seen that precedes and portends something good on the horizon);
... And I don't think I have ever wavered much over the last 8 + years from my intent as a member of this long standing community of investors who have endured much together, taking the stance to neither pump not disparage the stock. I hold exactly what I held 6 years ago, and am thankful for the opportunity to have learned from investors who were much more seasoned than I, and to have seen enough to also know now how to discern those with more nefarious agendas which aim to spread fear to shake shares loose, or to instill false hopes to either short the stock as it eventually deflated back down from its falsely blown-up state, or to generate a manipulated sense of a run, seducing some into "selling high" to take profits while others waited to scoop up their suddenly freed shares.
I look forward to tomorrow and Monday, but am prepared for whatever goes up to deflate back down, until there is a real merger and clarity of revelation by the BOD on its business plan direction.
And if I have to sell my shares at some high point along the way in the near future because there is financial need to NOT have my assets tied up for such a long time, then so be it. I am already well ahead of my initial investment, post-re-org, in terms of WMIH shares; and since my P Preferred markers aren't going anywhere whether I sell my shares or not, I'd still be in it, with skin in the game, until the tale is all told!
Love to all OG investors from the days before Rosin's snarky shark-attack on equity in court (which cost me over $130k on that sad, but badly played on my part day). And love to all who came aboard after the re-org exchange for New Co shares, hoping to have found a unique BK play that had a different origin and set of forward-looking events than the norm.
I disparage no one's rationale for being in this stock; and it is only the false prophets and Merlin magician types who sadden and drain me.
Best to all in seeing where this goes, together --
Dion
If that's true, I'll be sorely disappointed.
I'd like something to be logical, somewhere!
Dion
Perhaps. And in most cases, with WMIH and charting, I would agree. But I see the pattern. And it will either follow the historical relationship, or else, as you feel and say, it will be meaningless.
I'm just interested to see.
Dion
Not "turned on" by charts; just making an observation.
And the white candlestick has appeared at close.
Crossover seems likely and there IS a slight upswing in both lines.
If there just was one more day to confirm with a green close (even slight) tomorrow I would feel like it's not just my imagination and there IS a crossover occurring on the upswing ...
And then, I'll just hold my breath.
Dion
I am in no way a sophisticated chartist, but at a glance it appears that every time the Bollinger bands tighten to cross over with both moving in an upward direction, there has been a commensurate move upward in the pps.
It does appear to me that the lines look to be set to cross once again as they tighten up, with enough of a head-tic upwards to give me some faith that history might repeat itself.
Dion
http://stockcharts.com/c-sc/sc?s=WMIH&p=W&b=5&g=0&i=p13019533725&r=1394220758592
Thank you, Xoom, for validating my thinking on the question of ... Where ARE those shares going to turn up??
Dion
Gotta tell you man, I'm having a hard time digesting the "test" theory. After so many years, so many assumptions, so many disappointments, I've really been well trained to keep a closed lid on my enthusiasms and fantasies. I can tell I'm excited by just the little bit of motion occurring, in the fact that I'm posting more this evening than I usually do in a month. But the wounded animal in me warns me to conserve my energies, and to take this moment for precisely what it is, AT this moment -- the planned distribution of withheld shares, parsed out to equity according to the formulas that drove the Q, K and P escrow valuations during the reorg -- 25/75.
Would really LOVE to be dead wrong on this one, though, and howl at the moon :-;
Dion
Interesting. Perhaps a one-time escrow marker distribution, and your markers now to be revised as LTIs?
Dion
Yes - but I see nothing reflected in terms of share increase, or cash infusion, in my WMIH holdings/account, per my 1,100 P escrow markers.
Will it catch up tomorrow perhaps in eTrade, and show the current reorganization distribution in the form of a formula-driven share increase to my WMIH holdings?
Dion
I show the following under eTrade (scroll below). Whatever does THIS mean?
.095562/sh for my amt. of P escrow shares? Allocated in shares or in cash? Nothing else shows up in my account, as shares OR cash, that I can see.
Or is it .095562/sh for my WHIM holdings shares?
(I like the second option better...)
Dion
=
Type: Reorganization
Questions about this transaction?
Contact Customer Service
Account: Brokerage
Date posted: 08/03/2015
Amount: $0.00
Description: WMIH CORP COM STOCK DISTRIBUTION FROM 939ESC992 AT 0.095562/SHARE
Thank you, Uncle!
Dion
It does not mean that M&A announcement MUST be pushed out to Jan 5, 2018, but that the 2018 is the outside deadline, and that an announcement of M&A can occur anytime between July 6, 2015 and Jan 5, 2018.
So come this Monday, between then and the Jan 2018 date, there is nothing encumbering the company from acting on / announcing an M&A.
I think that's correct.
DION
Does anyone really think it is possible that Hedge Fund interests would purposely delay a potential M&A event for 3 more years for the sake of assing-out retail shareholders? Does retail have the kind of impact on the overall schema for how the shell is/will ultimately be used to rationalize such a diversion tactic and keep everyone who owns WMIH shares -- hedges and institutional holders included -- from realizing profit/gain?
I ask in earnest; not rhetorically.
Dion
thony / I believe what I said, and you can go back to my post to check if I said "everyone", as you purport, was:
"When we signed the releases, indemnifying just about everyone, we tacitly agreed to the terms of POR 7 ..."
and then went on to say:
"What could change that would legitimize any complaint NOW that POR 7, with our signed indemnifications, was NOT F&R?
"Only a finding of fraud having been perpetrated. And to date, I see no such action generated from the DOJ or the BOD of WMIH."
I've been here since the very beginning, reading every fact, opinion, document, and court transcript. Believe me, I don't need to be schooled about close reading.
Dion
EXDIMER / And you as well. I guess it got read, after all.
I just wanted to set the matter and record straight. A man's (or woman's) word, or his signature, is his bond. It's a matter of personal honor (even if living among thieves).
You simply cannot have it both ways. You signed, you agreed. No one twisted your arm. You signed, you accepted POR7 and F&R and survived to list on this board. Period.
Dion
Lex / And thank you, too.
Dion
bkshadow / Thank you. Didn't think anyone saw, or else went right past it, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Dion
When we signed the releases, indemnifying just about everyone, we tacitly agreed to the terms of POR 7, and to the assessment of F&R regarding the settlement.
So there is really no point whatsoever in questioning the F&R of F and R.
Releases = silence; silence = consent. We who signed the releases are as culpable of establishing POR 7 as F&R as those who drafted PORs 1-7 (hoping to ass equity out, were it not for one lone bondholder raising the spectre of a colorable claim of IT, and a judge who allowed him his say and "colored" it. Thus, POR 7 -- with F&R established by conversion of equity shares for WMIH, and Escrow markers as placeholders for anything left beyond the last tranche in the waterfall per POR 6, + the LTI.
If you signed, you took the deal as implicitly F&R and survived with a monetized WMIH cusip, and (thus far) non-monetized escrow markers.
What could change that would legitimize any complaint NOW that POR 7, with our signed indemnifications, was NOT F&R?
Only a finding of fraud having been perpetrated. And to date, I see no such action generated from the DOJ or the BOD of WMIH.
So how can one claim that what one signed as F&R is now not F&R??
You can complain, sure.
But you signed.
Dion
Lol --/if I had 'em (and I don't remember either) it was a short hold and I dumped 'em. Probably bought into a run.
Dion
Master / your understanding and forgiveness for my errant focus is greatly appreciated. I would never use this forum as a means to deceive anyone; I have learned and benefitted from much that has been posted here over the years, and in all my considerable time here I have made it a point to neither pump nor scare. I'm in this to the end, for better or worse -- and I've always felt it was for the better -- but I admit to a lay-trader's naivete about many issues that more seasoned players understand as a matter of rote knowledge.
But I learn a little more with each mistake; and now I know something more about making a determination on the status of a process based on whether a ticker does or does not appear on a select website.
Peace, brothers -- and thank you for understanding.
Dion
Go / No intent to deceive anyone. Was just looking for myself at what others had suggested re NASDQ uplist, and reported what I'd found. Did not know that any ticker symbol would show on the NASDAQ site.
If my post misled, I apologize to anyone reading the board who felt misled. I simply erred, and acknowledged my naivete in my following post.
Apologies,
Dion
Sorry to hear that.
Duped again.
Dion
Looks pretty good to me!
http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/wmih/stock-chart
Dion
Gotta say, to sunbird & mad: NASDQ listings have WMIH up on the exchange:
http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/wmih/stock-report
Has the closing quote for pps, and links to options chain, etc.
Hard to argue its presence.
Fingers crossed for a weekend PR,
Dion
Dr. // Now that IS an interesting ruling!
I am not expert on the relevance it does or does not bear upon escrow prospects, but I am hoping that some of the better legal minds and especially those who are most prudent and cautious about escrow returns will weigh in: -- Dion
=
“The court has found that none of these Schedules includes the Anchor claim. Therefore, the court can only conclude that the FDIC assented to the transfer
Plaintiff is entitled to additional mitigation costs of $63,191,000. In sum, the total Anchor is entitled to recover, before the addition of the gross-up figure, is $419,645,910.91. The court - 39 -
also finds that $227.1 million of these damages are subject to a tax gross-up. The parties are hereby directed to meet to determine the appropriate calculation for the final gross-up rate, and submit a status report to the court by Friday, June 19, 2015.
IT IS SO ORDERED.
s/Lawrence J. Block
Lawrence J. Block
Judge “
tcr: So according to your attorney, Nurse can contract to convey his escrow markers to someone in exchange for a price, make money on his escrows, be satisfied, and be done with it?
Dion
Gary / all due respect, at this point "scaring" retail seems unlikely. All who are IN know that whatever retail is still in is holding to at least the first pps move on M&A; many, if not most, are holding to see what the last chapter on the escrow/LTI markers holds in store, good or not; and rest of retail are in for the 2nd pps move on the 2nd M&A or, like Don, are "investors" in NEWCO for the longer haul.
No one is scaring anyone out of anything any more. More likely scenario is Fund hit a mark on a short hold and took profit and reinvested somewhere else.
All IMO.
Dion
Roach // I feel ya, man. Nothing I said earlier was meant to cast aspersions upon you or anyone else for decisions made, or to play any kind of silly one-upsmanship game regarding who had how much initial investment, or who did or didn't make coin and take some off the table. I've no quarrel with flippers; in fact, I wish I could do it as intelligently and well as many who moonlight as day-traders!
All I was saying was that over the last 8 years, despite the mind-numbingly bizarre and endlessly circular speculations; and having learned along the way a few dozen new "positions" into which a person can contort him/herself, or a concept, or even a seemingly ordinary word ...
... And despite having had to scramble, sometimes daily, to re-think everything I though was "obvious", or mundane, or mathematically symmetrical, or just a simple exercise in basic housecleaning, I just had to accept, as part of my learning process, certain limitations to what I can and do know, and learn from my past mistakes, and thus: "Begin Again" ...
... Just like I've had to do every time in my life when my ego confounded my intelligence, or I was afraid to fail, or I misjudged or took something for granted when I knew that it was foolish but was compelled to repeat old patterns -- whether broken relationships, marriages that failed, Family Court litigations over which I had to twist in the wind for years, blind career moves ...
... and an unwillingness to risk big when opportunity and timing intersected, but fear drove me backwards so as to avoid possible failure and abdicating my role as the responsible breadwinner, holding together the shakey infrastructure of a multi generational household that depended on me -- someone with a history of missing the moment and mucking things up.
But WMI, the BK, the UQ and KQ and PQ, the PORs, the conversion, was a risk I felt like I HAD to take, because I might not see another in my lifetime ...
... And because of the one I KNEW, BUT MISSED, years ago; the one I missed because I ignored the wisdom of Warren Buffet when the real estate bubble burst and the banks became exposed for the dirty dealings that had become general operating practices.
And because I was fearful of being ostracized by my family for being wrong -- but I felt I COULDN'T be wrong THAT time -- YET I did NOT take the risk and rape what was left of my savings that needed to go for diapers and food and rent -- and I DIDN'T put it into the one place I KNEW -- from everything I'd read about and learned and felt in my bones that it SHOULD go ...
... and that place was into the failing AIG, when it was pennies per share.
Buffet was all about using timing, in burst bubbles, to exploit the publically perceived "weakness" of the best of the failed, esp if the stock was a Blue Chip or a foundational pillar, and speculating on risk about these stocks' intrinsic strength and their public or private protectionism -- to withstand the moment of weakness and to rise up once again, because they HAD to -- and all one had to do was to buy and hold just ONE like that through the times when people would think you a fool to do so.
And there, but for my ignoring the lesson of Buffet, AND because of MY fear in parting with $5,000, and having to face getting reamed for pissing away my daughter's diapers IF I lost my "Bet" -- went my Buffet moment: a perfectly timed speculative opportunity that met the Buffet formula that I felt could NOT lose. And for lack of playing my chip ... Well, just look up AIG'S return in PPS % from its lowest point in 2007 or 2008, to about 2013-14, and current, and calculate what a $5,000 investment right then would look like in 2013, or today.
BUT I am still here -- because I still believe the Buffet formula works. WAMU, however, was nowhere near as clear a case as AIG was; in fact, it has been a COMPLETELY speculative play, with rules that follow no rules, and twists that NO ONE could possibly have foreseen, and that still remain to be seen.
But my point in all this is that: I am still here. I am still with skin in the game. I am at a profit -- as of today -- from my initial investment. And I believe there is more to come. I don't Dare dream that WMIH will be another AIG -- THAT was a once in a lifetime perfect alignment of stars -- of events, opportunity, risk and reward -- a miss that I don't believe I will ever be able to "fix" with a repeat.
But the lessons I learned since 2007 have kept me here, in a buy and hold position, trying to make the right decisions along the way as the path continues to twist and turn, hopefully out from the rubble of the great banking edifice that fell during a hastily thought out, panic seizure, to a new beginning (and perhaps even a sense of redeption for me, in my human condition as a fallible, and frail, human creature).
Dion
Roach // See, I disagree -- respectfully -- and I have been here since the start, though lurking since the conversion event.
I took in everything I could over these last 7, 8 years -- all the voices of disparate posters, all the documents from the BK, and the info from the EC and mailings from my broker. And I made the decisions through these years as best I could from what I knew.
When the conversion event was going to take place, I sold all Q's and bought all P's, when the price dipped low enough and as a result, have all P escrow markers and what I felt was the better conversion rate for my new WMIH shares.
At present, at the current PPS, I have already more than made my initial investment back (on paper, at least), without ever having sold a share, except for the Q's for P's exchange.
I never flipped; and the only regret I have -- and I don't even really hold it against myself as a mistake -- was not selling off at least half of my rather substantial holdings in the run-up of 2 to 3 days before Rosen made his fateful declaration in court that he did not represent equity, and that there would not be anything expected to remain for equity after the POR waterfall ended. My holdings, on paper, during those few days were valued at a sum I sometimes shake my head over for not having seized the moment to sell, right then and there, and take the risk that I might be able to buy back in at a future point, or just have been happy with the profit I might have walked away from the table with and never looked back. But I didn't, and I got creamed, like so many others did that day and in the days following.
But here I still am -- over 7 years later, still holding, post-conversion, still reading and following everything with great interest, and trying to distill hints of possible truths from the surrounding static. And (on paper, true ...), I hold WMIH shares at a value at least double that of my original investment, with the hope of amplifying that value either through accretion of PPS value via the business plan, and/or whatever the story ends up being for my P escrow markers.
Dion