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Tuning forks is an old application that was looked at 5-6 years ago when Dennis was still at LQMT. Whilst it is a good application it would be limited revenue....sort of like the knife.
The stock market gains have been fantastic the past 12 months. I hope you all have invested in other things besides Liquidmetal. If not you have missed a really outstanding profitable year...and still going.
So you think the DOD is going to do business with Li because he has Liquidmetal? You think they would turn over secret projects to him because he has Liquidmetal? Get real ! China is not an ally .
That is probably true. The defense contractors are very specific about doing business with US companies not connected to Chinese companies. Visser Precision is one of their good suppliers. Before the Li and China deal Liquidmetal was doing business through Visser with certain defense contractors. Now Visser will have that business. Don't look for any contracts from Lockheed, Northrup/Grumman, US Navy, US Army, Boeing, Aliant Tech or others.
Ni is also a big concern for medical implant applications or dental implants as well.
I don't believe there will be a Liquidmetal alloy contract. Maybe some MIM business which is in Paul's wheelhouse.
Liquidmetal Coatings is a very successful business. They had revenues of over $20M annually several years ago and continue to do well. John Kang is a major player with the company. Coatings is probably the best application for amorphous type alloys. Keep holding your breath if you think a contract is coming soon from Liquidmetal.
You be smoking some kind stuff to believe this. The business at best is $100-200M in 5-10 years. LM will get contracts from MIM not LM. Talk to the Rep organizations who originally thought this was a great new source of sales only to see that it does not work. They will go to the lowest hanging fruit which is what Paul Hauck has done with MIM. I wish all of you the best with your beliefs and investments.
To all who served Thank You for your sacrifices. From one old Army guy.
No I am not. The company should be a start-up not a publicly traded company. With no contracts they will drain the cash over the next couple years. Paul Hauck is a very capable MIM guy that has numerous sales connections. The sales folks are bringing in RFQs that simply are not suited for LM or there would be contracts. During Tom Steipps tenure there were also several prototypes parts that brought in revenue. Tom was a good manager of a bad business. I am sure the sales Rep organizations by now have figured out that LM is a very difficult technology to sell. Hence they probably are not focused on it.
If you look at the Visser website you will see a similar sort of manufacturing offerings including machined parts. They are a very viable business...small but successful. LM is moving in that direction probably because there is not enough/little demand for amorphous metal parts. MIM is a very well established technology that is a me-to sort of parts business. While MIM will eventually bring in some business for LM it is not what the core foundation of LM. So in the long run LM will become just a small manufacturing company. Too many RFQs and no contracts is the telling sign. Forget about Apple...why would they ever buy LM when they have patents of there own.
LQMT dates back over 10 years when manufacturing was done in Korea. They could not make a go of it for many of the same show stoppers the present LQMT has....high cost of raw material stock, too many parts that don't fit because of draft, holes and other geometry constraints and post processing & labor costs. Out of the thousand plus RFQs over the past 3 plus years none of them have worked out into production. This whole story looks very fishy to me.
You must be kidding! This is a terrible result period. Even if they were doing prototype work that would equal maybe one prototype. My guess is that they will end the year at less than $200,000 in total revenue. It demonstrates how difficult this technology is to fit into parts manufacturing. I would also speculate they will drift away from the amorphous alloy business and get moving into MIM and other everyday solutions. Don't look for any miracles here.
The old Apple rumor just never wants to die. For openers Apple would need hundreds of Engel or other modified injection molding machines. Materion would not have the capacity to produce enough raw material for the Apple demand. If the phone were dropped the case may shatter...assuming Apple has drop tested and feels they have solved the problem. Stainless steel is not an amorphous metal alloy.
You are correct. LM needs to schedule a Q3 earnings call. Without any data on revenue and new contracts there is only wild speculation which is not at all helpful.
Watts you are absolutely right. Revenues, revenues, revenues are what LM needs to show and do. All the short term hype will not matter. The yellow caution flag is out. The trend towards MIM and other manufacturing methods is troublesome.
Li is not a miracle worker. The technology is what it is.
Hauck is a MIM guy. The company strategy looks to be changing away from just amorphous metal alloys cast in Engel machines to a solution provider using various manufacturing techniques. This is a bit disturbing since it shows a willingness to not bank on Liquidmetal parts going forward. They look like just another manufacturing solutions company. However the good news is that maybe they can generate more revenue than the $48K in Q1 and the $58K in Q2. Even Professor Li can work any magic here.
The product strategy has changed. LQMT has become a manufacturing company that offers alternative processes such as MIM. One process does not fit all applications. Liquidmetal is an amorphous metal and as such has some characteristics which limit its applications. The impact strength is a major weakness since it will shatter like glass. Hence they are going towards a strategy of alternative processes like MIM. MIM is a well known process that has many applications for inexpensive parts. It can provide a source of badly needed revenue. The bottom line is they need revenue to finance the long term development of amorphous metal alloy applications. Don't blame Tom Steipp or the other people who have worked on developing this tough to process alloy. It has been a very long road and it will still take several years to perfect certain applications especially in medical or aerospace.
LQMT needs to announce when the Earnings call will take place soon. With no new contracts or press releases it does not look very promising for increased revenue. Probably only prototypes and noise level revenue.
Look at companies like Visser Precision Cast which are small but probably profitable manufacturing companies. They probably have multiple molding machines and are still a small business. So where does that leave LQMT. They need a homerun to move forward. I hope they do that but it may require a combo of MIM and LQMT.
He is a fine person....however... This is a tough struggling start-up business that should have "young lions" who are paid $110K with a promise of stock options. He was the only guy they had to run the business according to Li.
So here I some math for all of you who measure things. One current Engel machine can for example make a mold with say 4 parts at an average of $6-8/part. Lets say an average cycle time of 2 minutes per shot which is 120 parts/hr....assuming no stoppage which I generous. That is $1680 per day per machine....not counting any scrap or halts. So that is $369K/year per machine. So multiply the number of machines you need to make this a business. The result tells you how many machines you need or how many high cost parts per mold you need, Guess why Paul would like to go to the MIM business for additional revenue.
He has a Doctor PHD in Psychology. No experience in amorphous metals. Not bad for a guy who was lucky enough to be brought in by Tom Steipp.
At the end of Q2 the total revenue was $58K. Expenses & R&D ran around $1.84M. It is hard to imagine that the revenue will jump from $58K to $1.8-2.0M. If there is a small revenue increase it may come from MIM parts and more prototypes.. Keep in mind that Paul H has great expertise in MIM and the company has moved into that segment.
Don't get me wrong. I wish you good luck and hope the company does well over the next 5 years. Please just research as much as you can about the technology and marketplace.
Just do some basic research on amorphous metal alloys, injection molding, die casting , amorphous metal crystallization conditions and understand the technology. This is not an easy to understand technology. Look at the history in Korea. Look at the cost of Ti, Zr and Br raw materials. Then see why the raw material costs are a non-starter for many applications other than aerospace and defense...which may not be available to Liquidmetal since they are aligned with a Chinese company.
To really understand amorphous metal alloys and processing you need to have been in the business and understand the limitations. You also need to research MIM, die casting and post processing techniques. This is a parts business with limitations on size, thickness, draft and cost. MIM is has been the standard in parts for years . Liquidmetal needs to reduce material costs and manufacture in a low labor cost environment. If Li can do that in China under a new company it may have a chance.
Dream on ! You are reaching way beyond the capabilities of Liquidmetal. This is a tough to manufacture alloy that was best suited for electronics applications but those are sold to Apple. Get real here ! It can only be a small manufacturing specialty shop much like Visser is. In fact if you look back in time during Tom's era there was real revenue when working with Visser. It remain a small manufacturing company. Wish all you can but it will not change.
At the end of the day it has always been about orders and shipments of which they have virtually none. This has been going on ever since they left South Korea almost 8-10 years ago. This technology is tough to harness. It has many limitations on part sizes, draft and thickness. Post processing costs can be another factor.
100 RFQs mean nothing unless you can competitively bid on them. Many small manufacturers receive 4-5 RFQs each day and they can only bid on a few and if you are lucky win one. Be very cautious about reading to much into the machines LQMT has. If they are idle that is bad. This is a dog-eat-dog price competitive business.
The notes were very good and the LQMT people are great...the issue is and always has been harnessing the technology so it is profitable and can make high quality low cost parts.
MIM is an old cut throat pricing business. How many Engel machines are owned now? How many did you see?
A good mold can cost$60-90K. Check it out with a reputable mold maker.
Now hold on a minute. This technology has been in development for over 12 years. LQMT was originally in South Korea on die casting machines with raw materials made in Korea at a significant price less than in the USA. They struggled to make money with cheaper labor and less expensive materials. The new contracts assuming they exist may lean towards MIM which is Paul's expertise. This amorphous metal technology is tough to harness so be careful.
The Open House will not tell you much of anything. It is about signing contracts and getting orders in house.
Not a lot will be learned at the Open House. You must do the math to see that this is a small business based on the factory size and equipment. It is like a custom machine shop that will do MIM and a few Liquidmetal alloy parts.
It will be a real challenge to generate revenue from the existing Engel technology. The material cost is very high based on the pricing of Ti and Zr . What LQMT can really do in the future is based on hope. At this stage MIM and die casting will bring in business because they are price competitive. The revenue potential is probably like a small to mid sized machine shop.