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That's why i said *minimum*. Yes it is worthless to investors, has created only negative value.
How you make a lawsuit against a snake that is many snakes with multiple heads and tails? This probably explains the corporate structure, it's difficult to sue. Trw also is hiding now the aquafarms. I doubt anyone can get any money from there but they could get somebody to go jail.
Yes buyback is much better than dividend. I think that can be done on paper only?
Joe has been right for years giving advice that could have saved you tons of money. And HE is the dog that is having A day?
Well, they could sell their pile of cow dung and the whole cattle business. What's it worth in their books? Except that.. ..they won't. I assume there's no equity they can sell.
They had aquafarms "worth a lot of money". They "sold" them and shareholders got nothing. How's that equity from shareholders point of view?
They have businesses running according to their stories. Why they won't get loan, why there's no money?
They are frozen, only way to go "forward" (=keep the appearances up) seems to be to get new investors or new loans. Nothing they have created has value or creates profits for shareholders.
To a shareholder, that's same as having no equity.
Zero has painted vivid images how things might be in real life. Their (lack of) actions support very well those.
Their own view of their equity and profits from the business don't match at all with what happens in reality regarding money, share price, capability to get loan, development...
They don't have equity. Snap out of it.
This is exactly how siaf stock has been sold here for years. "Triggers" and mega promises. 90% down but always something coming up.. ..but not really. Now the big thing is that you would get a LOAN to ANOTHER company which is actually the same company but you don't own it directly anymore. Pathetic.
And they won't get the loan, it's the same siaf that has been snaked into something on paper that it isn't
Next party is $0,50 party.
Wise words. When things don't go your way, there's no use insisting that things must change or that "shorters" are behind this or something like that. Only thing you can do is to buy or sell. Just pull the plug and feel the relief.
I have sold 2 times at more than -50%. Seadrill and Carillion. Seadrill went down 90% more, Carillion is still more than 30% cheaper than what I sold them. I could use the money in growing stocks and enjoy again.
"you haven't lost anything before you sell" is the stupidest advice ever. Act when you see warning signs and don't fight the trend.
This was planned for blue eyed Scandinavians. Originally Solly wanted it listed in Stockholm as well. It has always been about these things, corporate structure, listings and mega visions for investors. Make it all sound very pompous and mega. Inside it's totally empty. That's why the stock has gone down 90% and will go down 90% more.
That was NOK 17 and July yes.
I send messages here at lower rate than 1 per day average, the positive views are 20-1 on the board really.
If I want definition for "sheer nonsense" i just scroll the page and look at the Siaf company structure pic.
We all know the official explanation, official hopes and dreams. You believed. I didn't. History has shown that believing the best and most honest from them will result to disappointment.
No Siaf for me. I just try save a buck for somebody here and there and follow this for entertainment mostly. I was about to buy at 17 NOK, lured in by the low p/e of course. Then i started investigating a bit and i couldn't see how everything i'm been told could be true. CEO started feeling really weird and so on. Since then everything has just gotten more and more weird. So it is interesting to see what will unravel. At 17 NOK i was told i'm a basher and i have no facts. At 9 NOK it's still the same.
How severe the warning signs were? The DD did not work, because us "guessers" were right. If the DD and numbers don't work, you are potentially looking at something mighty ugly. You can put many names on it but it is what it is. Losing money.
Now the latest HUGE warning sign is that aquafarms got robbed into trw. He didn't pay, no dividend or buy-backs, there is no loan, so there will be no progress. Once again the true character shows. I take, you give. As your stock value is used as a currency and diluted away. You pay.
On the other hand, the most precious parts are now safe for S. in another company. This implies that future of Siaf is most uncertain.
Call it what you want but reality is that owning siaf equals giving money away. You can't win.
As long as you don't sell, your losses will become bigger. It serves no purpose to tell yourself that a loss is not a loss. By selling when things don't go your way one can cut losses. Freezing and falling into denial buying more is how one can get serious losses.
What on earth people need as evidence? It's clear that money is gone, parts are taken away into different companies, shares amount increases. No dividend, no buy-backs, no megafarm.
If you want honest opinion and the best market advice, the one that will not change, which has stood the test of time and will hit the closest PPS guess at the end of year: ask me. Sell.
Most people are here to talk up the PPS or to back up whatever bets they have on the table. It is about that personal financial interest, not the truth.
P/e 1? There's no earnings. The p/e was and is a joke. It's the main selling point for the only thing they really produce, their stock. This will go down 90% easily.
In real life the "e" is negative. There's no earnings. There's horribly low p/e if you can invent the "e" yourself.. That's the original lie. People bought Siaf in greed because of that and didn't care about the warning signs.
Show is over.
Nobody wants to publish siaf jibberish anymore. From a hidden gem to a well known scam.
9,23 NOK at Merkur now.
6,99 NOK 31.12.2017 was my guess. What was yours?
I think i have a chance winning this challenge, if i remember correctly most folks here lived in the middle of triggers, buy-backs and dividends at the time of our original guesses and guesses were between 2 and 30 dollars. I was wrong because i didn't rely on (siaf-)facts and so on. Of course i was right and people fluent in Siaf jibberish were wrong. Seems inevitable that it's going under 9 NOK very soon, and then it's really short distance to 6,99. Not much time left but i think i will be pretty close!
Who will guess how Siaf will come to end?
My new guess and next poll: 7.12.2018 Siaf will be at NOK/$ 0,00.
Megafarm, megaloan, megadeal. Yes, honest. Dividend and buy-backs. Yes, honest. At this current situation no guilt or sense of urgency, yes, very honest to shareholders. That's 0 points for honesty.
Trw is just the original front aquafarms that Solly has been milking all these years. They didn't produce anything for shareholders, how on earth they would produce something now that you lost 2/3 of them?
The only purpose of "trw" is to collect money for Solly. He is using it already to get bank loan as you have seen, so this is not my theory, it's what actually happens. He will not get it of course, then he will use them to get money from shareholders.
There will never be any dividend from trw to Siaf owners, trw has been planned for exact opposite purpose.
Trw is the new "healthy" front company. Just like siaf was before you got to know what it really is. Or should i say already say what it was.
Be street smart -> there's no cow business.
Second priority, scattered barn and dung business? It's unprofitable, impossible, inconvenient, illogical and absurd. There's no cows, come on wake up.
Maybe he will start a charity foundation for financially abused siaf shareholders.
The point is: whatever they claim to have never reaches the pocket of the shareholder. I can't believe why you do not go real hard on Mr.S. You can't let him have "the next story" why there is nothing for you. There will always be a reason why now is bad time to pay you. Demand dividend for yourself as united front. Now. Even if the megafarm gets delayed (rolling eyes here). He took the farms, so he must pay. You can't go on believing these excuses.
"Book smart" = they have 25 million, i believe it because it's in the books. I believe i'm going to get s share of it, because they said so.
"Street smart" = 25 million huh? I know you ***rs. Prove it. Start building the megafarm right now, you can get a lot of work done with 25M, that's a ****load of money for construction in china. If you don't build, pay what you owe to us in Siaf!
And siaf never has any money, that we know. Lots of sales and profits yes, but conveniently they invested in one or two low tech concrete ponds that ate all the money and balance sheet was 0. Or maybe a flood ate it or a dog like with my homework. How convenient. Trw can have money on paper, because shareholders can't demand it. How convenient. We have created an illusion that we have money for you but you can't claim it for yourself because we need to keep it to ourselves for other more important purposes!
Well, i said that there will be no loan this year and no dividend. I was right i guess, only 2 weeks left. Many people were saying they get paid for the robbed aquafarms with cash dividend, hope seems to have died. Once again shareholders believe cute Mr. S that there is a perfectly good explanation why shareholders got nothing.
There were so many triggers for the stock to sky rocket a few months ago reading the forum. I don't see this loan happening based on earlier behavior of this company.
I suggest a bet on what you said about the loan. Punishment of being wrong will be the same for both of us: have to buy siaf stock. :D
Why would somebody lend 100 million to them? That's a suicide mission. They couldn't/wouldn't even pay 0,01 dividend back to shareholders when they were "doing great", they are not paying anything to shareholders from stealing aquafarms from siaf under triway. How on earth they would pay back a 100 million loan? It is totally impossible to see how they could make that money to work so it wouldn't be "spent" without return. Even if they did get some business going (100% hypothetical) they wouldn't pay back because it's in their DNA not to pay anything back! Yes there would be new concrete pools in construction (forever), excuses and delays but 99,9% of that 100 million would be so lost money. That's the last company that someone would ever in a million years lend 100 million to. The thought is just crazy and absurd.
No, people will never learn, instead they buy more, go into denial and we get some soda and popcorn and enjoy watching the show.
There's 2 things that baffle me the most: 1. How can Mr.S. with his illogical, inconsistent and absurd ramblings convince and even put a spell on some relatively sane appearing people? 2 You get loss after loss and don't enjoy owning anymore, why keep doing it?
I think at the end we will find out that this whole story was very similar to some ancient famous Greek or Roman tragicomedy.
I have not believed the conspiracy theories about shorters etc. it has never looked like that. Transactions when i have looked at the Merkur have been Nordea to nordnet etc. completely normal. That is until now. Today ALL the trades, i mean each and everyone have been anonymous dealer to anonymous dealer. I believe now there is a chance of some kind manipulation, but who knows how the robots think..
Of course the loan givers will "change their mind", that is what will be told to shareholders. "Syndicate of 5 banks" and bla bla, it will sound very pompous like there was a close battle that they almost got the loan. And at the end it was bank's fault, siaf did everything they could. Share holders were sooo close of this big success, damn the banks!
https://www.undercurrentnews.com/2017/11/17/two-years-late-no-shrimp-harvested-yet-at-sino-agros-megafarm/
So this is what you are talking about. I see it being positive because it doesn't address the truly worrying aspects of siaf. Like where has the money gone etc. where's the Q3 report etc.
97% discount and people who know it best don't buy. That's basically all the evidence we need to know what kind of company we are dealing with. Interesting to see what happens next and how the end will come.
No auditors needed, it is obvious whatever pile they have or don't have is basically worth nothing. Same goes for the cattle, flowers or whatever they come up with next. Is there something going on in the aquafarms, are they getting some rent money from their joint venture partners is another matter. I think there is no real income either.
It'll be great fun to see how the Q3 interim story will lay out all this, maybe also something MEGA coming. Maybe they will sell the fertilizers in one deal and share holders get MEGA dividend! :D
This should be a sticky at the top of the page.
As an idea this is all very good. Actually i'm a bit of a tree hugger myself and when i first saw siaf principles of production, especially the main idea taking off pressure from wild animals producing protein effectively I was feeling like i could invest in this even if it didn't produce much wins, because the idea is very respectable.
Then I started looking more carefully and everything went pancake. They are riding on a very good idea but there is no execution of the idea. Endless corporate structure BS, explanations and excuses. No money, no produce.
I think effectively they are doing harm on these good causes at the moment.
It's big business with big players. Siaf is not even a small player, siaf is tiny and it's side business of their side business, scattered, low-end and small. if siaf would be successful in it, everybody would succeed. They have 0 sales for sure, this is just pat of the fantasy land stock idea, not real.
Claiming cow poo is worth tens of millions is a siaf invention. Part of the fantasy for investors. One day they realize that there's lots of empty beer cans around and they will set up Chongzhen recycle and aluminium company ltd around te activity of taking the empty bottles back to the store.
This company is not believable in so many ways, management, corporate structure, books, business itself. It's all so weird that i remain watching what happens next. Great entertainment coming soon, when we hear the excuses why no dividend. This company is much more joyful to follow without having any shares.
It is impossible to make millions of sales and wins from cow poo from few separate barns. It's pretty safe to say that the real sales of the "fertilizing company" are 0.
That's a FACT. We KNOW.
Seriously, capital and bold letters and repetition go from emphasis to desperation real fast.
This forum is the main advertising/marketing/selling channel for siaf stock. Some of these guys might be in on it.