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I guess the plan has been to create a portfolio of assets and get people believing in those imaginary numbers and make them buy the "amazingly cheap" shares while printing and selling the shares with other hand.
Looks like a simple scam.
The real life actions suggest it's just "a web page" like zero says.
They did fool well, they did quite a remarkable job lifting the empty shell to $17.
The 790 million assets/business empire is believed only to the extent of 1,5% anymore by the market.
Claimed profits have vanished, dilution has stayed, they still keep laughing all the way to the bank.
Simple but effective.
They just keep up the appearances fiddling the corporate structure with meaningless and endless spin-offs, filings and ownership arrangements.
That's just nonsense but it keeps many shareholders busy and hopeful like the endless speculation of those matters here on the forum proves.
Keeping up the appearances and laughing all the way to the bank after every dilution round. That's the business.
Mega dilution and mega death spiral for share price. Those they were able to deliver.
Yes it is very different.
This is a low level chinese agricultural tax free segment scam.
You lose 97% in 3 years, 70% in this calendar year.
They dilute and break every promise they make. No evidence of harvests, customers or profits. Only dilution.
It's a really low level scam for really low level people.
It's a scam marketed here. Real market has been up many years, investing to most other things have brought nice yields. Siaf dilutes and goes down. They sell their shares at 1.5% of the book value which should tell all normal investors that it's an obvious scam.
It's down 97% in three years, 70% down this year. Siaf has NOTHING to do with "value investing" they print and sell their own shares at 1.5% of their book value, they know their value best. With discounts they probably sell it less than 1% book value.
It's a scam.
It is very hard to believe that a man who could create 790M aquafarming empire would on the other hand do something weird and completely irrational and harmful to everybody like this.
If they reported heavy losses, even then selling assets should come first and at least sold shares should be way more expensive.
But they do this and claim profits both Siaf and trw it's just beyond any reasoning.
It just doesn't make enough sense what they do. It would require serious sudden mental illness or such. And I'm not kidding, I mean really.
But I think the simplest most logical explanation is usually true, not the sudden mental illness.
Just saying that when you see it the way I see it, there's no more irrational things, nothing absurd, it's just the guys making their living on something that isn't there and that will require all this crazy stuff.
It explains dilution, it explains all delays, it explains the PPS trend, it explains why we don't see the harvests, trucks and customers.
Everything lines up like I said before.
Diluting to get 5 million while losing 260 million.
Even the slowest of the slowest should understand something is terribly wrong with their reports by now. And it's not 5-10% wrong, it's complete lies wrong.
"They have printed some 14 million stocks from the beginning of this year. They have been selling them with discounts to loan sharks etc. let's assume average maybe 30 cents/share.
That's 4,4 million dollars income.
AT the same time their book value is 790 million.
29 million shares to 43 million shares means the 29 million share's 1.1.2018 owners have lost value from the 790M book value they owned down to 29/43 of that.
That means 1/3 value loss.
1/3 of 790 million is 260 million dollars.
This years dilution has cost 260 million dollars to the shareholders 1.1.2018!!!!
For what? Getting only 4,2 million cash??
That doesn't make any sense for anybody if the books are even half real.
Now you understand the books are not true. The assets are not true and since they are diluting it's fair to assume the EPS is negative.
So the businesses and profits are more or less fake too.
We have pointed out many problems, i sensed this is a scam long ago just by looking how they present their company no customers seen, no harvests seen etc.
EVERYTHING lines up perfectly with this being just a scam. "
You can't look at the reports with this company, they are cooked.
They have printed some 14 million stocks from the beginning of this year. They have been selling them with discounts to loan sharks etc. let's assume average maybe 30 cents/share.
That's 4,4 million dollars income.
AT the same time their book value is 790 million.
29 million shares to 43 million shares means the 29 million share's 1.1.2018 owners have lost value from the 790M book value they owned down to 29/43 of that.
That means 1/3 value loss.
1/3 of 790 million is 260 million dollars.
This years dilution has cost 260 million dollars to the shareholders 1.1.2018!!!!
For what? Getting only 4,2 million cash??
That doesn't make any sense for anybody if the books are even half real.
Now you understand the books are not true. The assets are not true and since they are diluting it's fair to assume the EPS is negative.
So the businesses and profits are more or less fake too.
We have pointed out many problems, i sensed this is a scam long ago just by looking how they present their company no customers seen, no harvests seen etc.
EVERYTHING lines up perfectly with this being just a scam.
Printing 12M shares is 216M value loss for shareholders counted from the book value. Indeed that is a fact. If shareholders are happy to get 4 million losing 216 million it speaks volumes how absurd this is. =D
They probably have earned on fake papers thousand times the current share value and still some believe the papers are real and this is the hidden gem with awesome treasure at the end of the dilution rainbow.
Only 30 cents and it's really worth 20 dollars, just like the gold colored ring a gypsy sells for 5 dollars is probably real gold and worth 1000 dollars.
It's going to reverse split, not $1.
And then they get new newbies who believe the fake assets and businesses and business continues.
I can't believe people are this simple that they don't get a simple scam.
There's skillful promoters here but still... Unbelievable.
But they still send money to Nigeria as well, so I guess there always will be those easily fooled.
I have counted 17 final batches. 27 times trw dividend next week. 15 times megaloan next month. Bottom and big turn upwards for the share next week 129 times. =D
All wrong and just hopes and dreams or deliberate manipulation of the mind.
This time it will be different?
There's no money, there's no declaration date.
There is only dividend policy a penniless diluting company has announced.
Dividend policy is the % amount of their profits company intends to pay as dividend. It has nothing to do with promising any actual payments.
Siaf has published actual amounts for the coming years in their policy. It doesn't make any sense, especially for a broke diluting company.
It is fair to assume that they are purposely misleading shareholders as always before. I'd say it is 98,5% sure they will pay no dividend this year or even the coming years.
A proper dividend policy would have been such that gives % they aim to pay from their profits. Since they are diluting it's obvious they have negative EPS and no payments will be made.
Dilution, no bank relations, no megaloan, no harvests, no clients, no money, trading at 1,5% of the book value meaning consensus belief is that it's 98,5% BS what they report.
There's the proof.
So can we see the screenshot now?
Or is the pic building capex for another pic and therefore busy so it can't be shown and must be diluted away from the public? =D
But the claimed transactions of one person is not important I'd rather see the proof of the talks with the auditor.
Or we add this as well as the latest item on the 98,5% not-believable crap pile with Siaf assets and stories?
We didn't expect the screenshot, we didn't expect proof from the other guy talking to the auditor. The latter is the one with some significance, first isn't.
Anyways we didn't see any of the proof as expected.
We always predict right.
It's always the same.
Then Siaf fans get together and decide they were the winners once again.
We already know how this works.
So you created almost half of the turnover here? Ok.
I have also suspected these various friendly talks with company management, auditors and Garret and whatever for being mostly BS and just another crooked way to market the share here.
I want to see the evidence of this as well.
All the predictions have gone wrong on the 90% way down. It is experience without wisdom or learning capability.
What is left is just endless manipulation of the mind.
It is a scam, there is no value in "trw" and the market knows, they know it by diluting at 1,5% of the book value. TRW is just an extension to the busted Siaf scam, trying to reload the old value and do another round of scamming and diluting.
It is not the market who has been 99% stupid.
"How do I get to $1.50? Because I have gained some experience in these matters in recent years. If they are distributing $1 of value then the market makers will beat it down by $1 on the ex-date. But what if we are not trading higher than $1? You see, that is not possible. When they are distributing $1 of value then the implied value of TRW alone is close to $3 per SIAF share. The market is not entirely stupid. Only 99%. lol. "
EPS is negative, there is no E except from selling shares. They have never made any profits from farming.
Earnings per share 7 dollars is just ridiculous, same with the assets. The current earning per share are just as ridiculous.
You can spot that being a lie just by the conduct and excuses of the slimy CEO. You can spot it from them being broke with no bank relations. You can spot it from the massive dilution.
It is a scam, the books are completely imaginary and have nothing to do with reality.
It has gone from 17 down to 0,28. Heavy dilution on and it's getting worse. Nothing has materialized.
Promoters usually have other means to benefit from the things they sell, it's their victims who get the life they don't deserve.
Just talking about principles of investing, controlling losses, not "falling in love" with any stock, evaluating truthfully high risk stock's high risks.
Somebody says something negative here and it's been "basher", "shorter", "bad agenda against Siaf", etc.
Just like now.
Covering ears and closing eyes, I don't get it.
I doesn't work that when things get worse you start believing even more.
In investing when things go wrong way sell that stock and buy a stock that goes the right way.
What is this it's us and them against us, this kind of religious attitude, makes no sense.
You want to believe so that you can show me a counter punch when your belief is rewarded at the gates of Siaf heaven?
Weird thinking man. It's just investing. it works or it doesn't.
The thing I never understood is why make this a religion? Why ignore critique totally, why believe everything and just blame everything on the "shorters" and "bashers"? Clearly there has been huge gap between reality and their stories and numbers..
It's common sense negative EPS and having no money/sellable assets drives them to dilute, but people just blindly want to believe in their hundreds of millions and flourishing business stories..
The general atmosphere here has been so weird, we have been really just trying to be voice of reason.
Yes market is efficient. There's only handful of people here believing their assets and businesses. Market has been efficient, market has been right, share price been coming down and at the same Siaf has revealed it's true colors. No megafarm, no megaloan, no trw cash dividend, no trw stock dividend, dilution getting heavier...
Just delays and excuses.
Market has REACTED and PREDICTED what is happening in the real world.
1 Dilution means deeply negative EPS.
1 Dilution at 98,5% discount to the assets value means assets are not real.
1 + 1 = 2 and two is the share market price.
It is going further down because they still fail and still dilute. There is absolutely no basis to assume "the fundamentals" are what they claim.
Comparing to yahoo or full heated market situations is just absurd.
Siaf fails and dilutes and is not believable at all. To the trained eye it looks completely worthless.
50% dilution this year. 71% down. 97% in three years.
These are the real life facts.
The market sees audited reports and results 1,5% true and 98,5% crap. And their dilution is eating away that 1,5% smaller and smaller. That doesn't match with the reports either.
Dilution proves negative EPS. Dilution at 1,5% of the book value proves assets fake.
That's all the market needs to know, you can "ask RD" how things are here in the dream world but truth is above.
No long term targets have materialized either. No short term targets. There is no mega farm, no mega deals, no mega loan, no trw cash dividend, no trw share dividend, no Siaf cash dividend, no share buy backs.
NOTHING has materialized.
Things that have materialized are ALL negative scam indicators:
50% dilution this year, Share price 97% down in 3 years 71% this year, and of course all good things not materializing speaks volumes as well.
50% dilution in less than 8 months. Money vanishes and never comes back.
Scams don't give money back, only thing they give is excuses.
Many seem to be happy with the excuses, no lawsuits, maybe deep down they know that there won't be any funds or assets.
Maybe from personal funds of the scamsters shareholders might get something? Company is dry, dilution tells that story loud and clear.
Stories and excuses they have a plenty.
Megafarm, megadeal, megaloan, trw dividend, cash dividend....
Then it's tax problem, flood, money problem and nothing materializes.
Always next mega thing around the corner in the future which will make share price sky rocket and owners become rich. But when future is here it's next problem, next delay.. "Sorry no have" and again the next big thing is planned already and shareholders should wait that... And next problem and delay... Over and over again.
That's how scams work.
Being street smart:
Siaf is profitable and has lots of assets.
TRW is profitable and has even more assets.
If this was true Siaf share holders don't need megaloan, company don't need to dilute, don't need TRW listing, can live on the profits, don't need ANYTHING for the Siaf share to sky rocket first thing on monday.
The problem is that if you are street smart like the market is, you understand that these profits and assets can't be real.
Therefore the TRW shares distribution, their speculated listing and other speculations are totally meaningless. Nothing will change no matter where this scenario will go. And they know it so they stall it, they will prolong it and keep those shareholders on false hope.
The TRW shares are a joke, it's obviously just something to make shareholders wait and not to sell Siaf shares and novices to buy some, so that their printing and selling shares operation works better.
The experience tells already that this will be prolonged like everything else, we already have the experience of not getting any cash what was promised from TRW and listing is the same thing. Worthless unsellable shares might come one day and Siaf share price will raise 5% for a day and that's it. And dilution will continue.
It is just a part of the same scam.
If ifs and buts were candy and nuts!
Dilution is sure, everything else is prolonged, doubtful, at the mercy of one madman and at the end of long streak of dilution.
Looks like some more dilution today and -8%. I think we are going to the direction of NOK 1 instead of NOK 10.
I have taken a look on some of the others as well.
The relevant information regarding this company is not reports first stuff in my opinion.
The report says they have 790 million dollars assets and the cow dung organic fertilizer inventory alone was 12,6 million dollars, about same as the whole company market value.
Do you believe in these? I can't. Now if you can't the next logical thing is that another info might be untrue as well.
So let's forget reports and look at what happens in real life.
Money escapes shareholders, dilution. With the profits and assets it makes no sense.
So is there business really?
I picked from this from a forum member question to Tony. His answer as what is he doing was something like "experimenting stuff, really just waiting for the loan". Go look up that message don't believe my words might not be 100% accurate but it was something like that. Furthermore admitting on some previous presentation that prawns didn't grow and fishes dying. Huge red flags.
Like i have said before i wanted to see pics of harvests and happy known clients.. ..haven't seen.
That doesn't add up at all with the claimed megatons of production.
You combine all this information what you have? There's more but this message would become too long.
It is my speculation but the market feels pretty much the same. P/B calculated from last report is 0,0158, that's not much belief in their assets or business by the market.
Don't believe me make your own analysis but I saw this going down while those believing the reports have been on the verge of turn upwards ever since I first came here at NOK 17.
I told people to be street smart and saying that i don't read the reports i wanted to underline that it may be a bad idea to find all relevant info there instead looking at their real life actions.
In essence this TRW seems to be an attempt to reset Siaf back to high valuation and start new scamming round diluting down like with Siaf.
I don't think they can fool twice, otcbb seems logical or it just might be an forever around the corner thing for shareholders as many others have been.
Siaf P/E seems to be 0,08, according to finance yahoo. Expect similar for TRW. They can play assets and profits on papers but if at the end of the line is always the same chinese elderly guy saying "no have money need to dilute", then all the claimed assets and profits fly out the window as they have with Siaf.
Same aquafarm pics have been milked for a long time already, part ownership promises have not raised Siaf price.
Likely there won't be any magical value coming since such has not been recognized so far.
Solly is creating hot air value with paperwork but he can't bring that value to HK and list whatever fantasy companies and values he has made up.
This looks like keeping up the appearances, Siaf has always kept the shareholders waiting for some big thing that never comes.
Nothing's changed it's all old.
Siaf is valued at 1/70 of the book value, i would estimate TRW will be valued less than that maybe to 1/100. Even more suspicious entity than Siaf. What will change after they have played with the stocks? Nothing. Corporate structure changes with big promises of future. This has been seen already.
I wouldn't expect much of a jump in share price based on corporate structure changes. A photo of Solly shaking hands with well known big player customer in front of huge pile of shrimp boxes would be more valuable than 10 million TRW shares IMO.
I see it happen all the time. Branches that are not key functions are sold and they should be sold especially if in need of cash. In this case the reward would be tremendous.
That's hardly a mistake by any means.
Having dilution you are always behind the curve.
Prove the assets by selling some and give money to shareholders and end dilution. Win-win-win.
of course they'd do it if they could.
Customers don't need shares, customers give you cash. But no customers seen, no trucks, no harvests. So maybe you need to print and sell shares..?
If it is something dishonest who knows where the money ends up.
The assets they question themselves. You just don't print at 1/70 of book value when you could just sell 1% of the assets and pay all bad loans and stock would skyrocket 200%. Especially with that corporate structure that should be cleaned anyway.
But they don't sell because..? They can't?
That's China and tax free agricultural segment. Zero probably knows more how they can make it work on paper.
You have blind faith in P/B 0,0158 chinese agricultural company.
There's no P/B 0,0158 companies in real life.
Logic.