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The ESC issued CUSIPS were cancelled. Is that specific CUSIP worthless? Issued, cancelled with no payments made in that/those specific CUSIPS means there was no related payout (to those specific ISIN's issued by the Litigation Trust). The L/T was given an amount of assets and they paid off creditors down to the bottom above classes 19-22. Not at 100%, but paid and received releases from previous classes.
Did you sign a release? If so, you may be entitled to a future payout if one is made. The FDIC does not currently see enough assets to make a payout, their boiler plate language for every institution, but if there are funds remaining after paying those claims, law suits, then you would be entitled to your portion of those remaining funds (if any).
Are you screwed?
Look in your pantry, bank accounts, look at your family, and your life... My guess, you are doing pretty damn good
Easy....the Volcano seems ready to blow
Its designed that way so the thieves can eschew and obfuscate.
What was it that President said? " It depends of what your definition of is, is..."
You forgot the end part "and they all stink".
When I see such outlandish suppositions on the MB I feel they need corrected. I like Royal and find his theories entertaining for the most part.
Often outlandish, but he is a genuine "Dude". I never try and correct his assertions.
However, when I see messages from users that could clearly do a bit of research to determine the face value of a hypothesis with a bit of DD and don't seem to have tried. I'll post.
Maybe this is all too easy for me and I expect more than I should from other investors. So if it was offensive, my bad.
I agree with you. It shouldn't belong to them but here we are and it very much is in their pocket with little chance we will ever see the fruits of those commercial loans. What you choose to believe of course is your prerogative.
Why wonder?
CGS identifiers ensure that essential front- and back-office functions run smoothly, enabling custodians and sub-custodians to easily communicate, manage and examine the details of a transaction for accurate and efficient clearance and settlement. Derived from the Committee on Uniform Security Identification Procedures, CUSIPs are 9-character identifiers that capture an issue’s important differentiating characteristics for issuers and their financial instruments in the U.S. and Canada.
Lets "Key" in on important differentiating characteristics for a moment.
The original WAMU shares were required to have a unique CUSIP. An easy search in history shows the CUSIP: 939322103
This was before the bankruptcy existed, and for some time.
Move forward and the stock is no longer trading, Litigation Trusts is created to pay off creditors. However, in court the subject is brought up about what if there is enough money in the waterfall to reach the lower classes holding shares? 19-22 How can we differentiate previous owners that signed releases and MAY (not will), but may, have assets left over to distribute.
Easy, there is a method for that. A CUSIP can be generated to reflect a unique identifier. In this case, the LT had a new CUSIP issued and replaced digits 4-6 (322) with ESC (Escrow).
The LT said they didn't think they were needed and that the waterfall would not likely reach these classes but agreed to issue them anyway. Which also gave them the power to remove them. Which they did.
https://www.cusip.com/identifiers.html
Why contact the DTC? When you could contact CGS https://www.cusip.com/contact.html
In fact, the upper right hand corner of the CGS splash page allows you to apply and register a unique CUSIP.
That was funny.
It can be found but... Reiko did it for you this time. You do so little DD or even the effort to chase it down.
Wake up and try a little common sense instead of living off the efforts of others.
Did you actually believe JPM found $30B in 2008 and was using it for a stock buyback in 2024?
Really Bill?
Who needs to grow up...
JPM trading at $202 with a PE of 12 gives the $168 number a view of its backside. Analyst...and JD talking out of both sides of their necks.
"Lending fast is critical for the niche that JPMorgan focuses on"...
Maybe those creampuffs will buy Mr. Cooper and accelerate their loans even faster.
Maybe Robby Halford will quit JP and start up Fight again... doubt both.
The article was posted many times from Business Insider. They do not keep it up forever.
So ask yourself. JPM buys WMB. Makes an initial payment of $1.89B
Oh my goodness! here is $30B in cash we found under the cushion in the couch. Lucky us! Nobody knew about it! Nope.
It was commercial loans. They serviced them and used the principal portion of payments to repay the liabilities to the depositors they inherited.
That's how banks work. Take deposits, create loans against properties people choose to purchase, use the depositor base to loan at a higher % than they pay for the deposits... Magic!
But they are not done yet... Then they package the loans into traunches based on risk, pledge the loans against MBS, CMBS, sell those as investments, take the money from that, rinse repeat.
No $30B found, no magic money, too bad for JPM and JD. Just the loans to make money from.
JPM never found $30B dollars... They discovered ~$30B in commercial Loans. JPM may have made $$ servicing those loans for what ever period was left on them. But they didn't find $30B.
What they did do is continue servicing and actually started making commercial loans which was something they were not into. They kept the team from Wamu and worked the loans. If they made 1% , best case, minus the overhead, they may have had a nice revenue stream... but read the related article(s), not MB "stories" that have been debunked.
DD. If you don't do it... your guessing and making things up.
Have a good weekend.
Wind, as AZ correctly points out, a CUSIP is a nine-character alphanumeric code. The first six characters are known as the base (or CUSIP-6), and uniquely identify the issuer.
Issuer codes are assigned alphabetically from a series that includes deliberately built-in gaps for future expansion. The 7th and 8th digit identify the exact issue.
It appears, that the 1-3 identify the company, in the case of the WMI-LT (4-6th characters "ESC" as the agency). Escrow vs. 322 which was likely issued originally for WMI. Character 7-8th are the type identifiers. For the original Cusip "10", for the WMI-LT "96". And the 9th character is a mathematical accuracy formula that creates an identifier. Maybe "boolean"? a result of multiplexing the previous characters.
https://www.cusip.com/identifiers.html
If you are looking for advice on a MB, you are in the wrong place. You need a financial advisor. Also, if it was part of a "large inheritance"? Probably go focus on that. Better returns than relying on what you could end up finding out here. Disagreement, opinionated, divisive, rhetoric. Entertaining, but sifting through actual knowledge, versus gamesmanship here... likely not worth your time if your actually what you portend to be. And how did you find this island in the sun? "A friend"?
StormyVolcano sounds like you might be here with a stir stick in hand. Best of luck
That is emphatically NOT what the FDIC said, and you cant provide a link that makes that statement.
The 16B hole you claim had coverage in other parts of the corporation so more falsehoods...
Lightbulb moment: Banks DO NOT KEEP deposits around waiting for a long line to form at the teller window... Lightbulb moment appropriate.
When you misrepresent, you have no credibility.
Don Quixote chasing ceiling fans
"Yo-Yo" phase... try some ARM. giving me that same return on an abbreviated time line. Stay Well DBD
JHD, if you do a 1 year chart of COOP against the S&P 500 it might look different to you.
Rinse / Repeat
MMs shaking the tree trying to get some action. Low volume, multi-dollar swings, but it just keeps on keepin on...
Maybe the BOD will announce another buyback or something significant enough to moves us closer towards 90.
Or maybe JB will keep squeezing his personal piggy bank... or both...
The ADL is an indicator based on a derivative of price and volume. This makes it at least two steps removed from the actual price. The money flow multiplier does not take into account price changes from period to period. So, it cannot be expected to always affirm price action or successfully predict price reversals with divergences. Sometimes there is a disconnect between prices and the indicator. Sometimes the ADL simply doesn't work. This is why it is vitally important to use the ADL, and all indicators for that matter, in conjunction with price/trend analysis and/or other indicators. It has to viewed collectively with other data available to make an inference.
What is disturbing is the amount of other banks the FDIC has not resolved that have been in receivership many years longer than WMB. What do you suppose the FDIC is waiting on with banks to close its receivership for 23+ years???
Now they want to prevent runs on banks by tying up your assets so you cant pull them in a distress situation using LTD requirements.
https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2023/09/19/2023-19265/long-term-debt-requirements-for-large-bank-holding-companies-certain-intermediate-holding-companies
Brilliant! more governmental overreach designed to protect their institution, not John Q. Public.
it would be since 11/11/2023...
But then you posted this on the wrong board
https://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=174554935
So who's the clown?
Im up 3.5 Phat so far on this so...wouldnt call that 100% failure.
My favorite is the member that has the most brown emojis on the entire MB throwing out this little Jewel...
https://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=173892972
The MB has voted... and it appears we have a winner. Not much moderation in that response.
I think you mean decisive between you and the naysayers right? There are many different opinions about the supposition. I don't think the MB is restricted to group think. JMHO.
I think the FDIC number is roughly correct and what JPM should pay in total.
However, Assets = Liabilities + SE (stockholder Equity ).
By far the largest portion of the FDIC number was the Customer bank accounts. ~185B. An asset on the balance sheet, but a liability and owed to the people that deposited the money into their bank accounts. When JPM took WMB, a subsidiary of WMI, JPM was on the hook for that liability correct? If we can agree on that premise, then I think we can understand that there were a lot of other liabilities against the assets.
WMB had 1 share, ok. That should represent WMI's equity position once all the liabilities have been dealt with against available assets.
WMI, trading under the symbol WM are the shares those of us pre-and-post bought. The FDIC has stated it is unlikely, but that is boiler plate for all banks under their receivership. JPM has had to pay many of WMBs liabilities during the last 15+ year period, as well as have made a great deal of money off the customer base and assets. The FDIC has also stated no payments (if any ) until all litigation is settled and I think we are moving very close to that. What the final WMB ledger will read once JPM shows all they have already absorbed on the liabilities at WMB, remember Assets = Liabilities + SE, is going to be a fraction of what WMB had originally. FDIC will likely back out all their expenses associated with the legislation as well. Libor? don't know? My opinion is that WMI and the interests they were required to have in MBS/ABS/CBS will likely be the larger. They didn't include these instruments in the chap 7 or 11 as they were not property of either. They were sold to investors, so not part of the BK. They had mortgages "pledged" to them, but again did not get included and every time they were mentioned, judge shut down the discussion. "You can go after them later", was my understanding of the court saying you will not drag millions of home mortgages into the discussion because they were "pledged" against a interest bearing security that had already been sold in the markets. That would have been a catastrophe to the economy and markets, and to the insurance that covered them. I think when you get to the concept of assets of Assets, then the amounts owned by WMI that would pay into the future may very well be what could remain along with what we have received in WMIH/COOP shares, + our original amounts of WM shares purchased pre-and post. They were counted at the time and the numbers are known. Votes are also known, and W9's and W8's for foreign accounts known. How this all bakes out? 36M repurchased shares? new issued shares ? Mr. Cooper bought out? Don't know. but like you and most, I do not believe it all vanished and the wording reflects in many documents about what goes where if anything's is left. This episode has already been very good to me. But if it gets a little better... well that would be OK too! Spent a lot of years in Finance and hope that in the end they do the right thing. That's what I hope happens. Stay safe, watch your belongings, take care of your families, and be good to yourselves and others. TC DBD
Chase (JP Morgan Chase) Funding NJ and Chase Mortgage Finance Corp, having a signatory the same as Long Beach Securities Corp, Washington Mutual Mortgage Securities Corp, WaMu Asset Acceptance Corp....
If you see your Wife is in bed with the neighbor... Chances are they are hooking up.
Or, just an odd coincident.
No room for sexual harassment or any forms of discrimination in the workplace. This is an important government agency and if we cant trust the management to follow basic human dignity rules and practices...how could we ever trust them to perform their job of protecting the public, enforcing actions in a timely manner, and in general to do the right thing.
Doing the right thing when someone is looking means nothing. Doing it when nobody is watching is where it matters.
Form W-9 (or an acceptable substitute) is used by persons required to file information returns with the IRS to get the payee's (or other person's) correct name and TIN. For individuals, the TIN is generally a social security number (SSN).
In the event that a payment is made to a person using one it identifies that person and their possible obligation to pay tax's on the hypothetical distribution (if any).
Republic First Bank , a $6B institution gets seized yesterday, bought out the same day by Fulton Bank which agreed to assume substantially all of the failed bank’s deposits ($~4B) and buy essentially all of its assets, yet the FDIC states it will cost them $667M? So the FDIC is paying Fulton $667M to take RFB? How did the FDIC sell a bank the same day they seized it and how many other banks had an opportunity to bid on it? Oopps! I forgot, the FDIC gets do what ever they decide they are going to do... Rinse/Repeat.
https://fortune.com/2024/04/26/philadelphia-bank-implodes-failure/
The FDIC has stated consistently they can not close the Washington Mutual case until all legal proceedings are closed. Besides LIBOR, there were about 6 cases last time I checked that were not settled. Sep,2023. They didn't even go after them until the deadline for bringing cases was looming last summer.
Would love to see them all closed and the case closed @ the FDIC but not counting on any windfall. FDIC has a lot of discretion to apply LIBOR settlements the way they want and where they want. So what's to keep them from building a "war chest" and justifying it by stating future bankruptcy case may require additional funding.
Think about how the FDIC has acted to date. No urgency, boiler plate responses to inquiries "currently we do not anticipate...", and glib responses to inquiries from shareholders. Further, how has the entire government treated this case? 5AT, changed laws to prevent another Washington Mutual holding company scenario, and clearly in the "WGAS about the shareholders camp"... Not holding my breath for the government to do the right thing but maybe they will surprise us?
ALL ASSETS BELONG TO THE REORGANIZED DEBTOR
Yo, fanman, companies dont OWN anything. The stockholders do.
Maybe pick up a finance book between installing those fans. Until, you can understand that basic fact, principle..., would advise you stay out of the markets your clearly not qualified to participate in. Unless of course you would like to give away more of your money to those that do.
Welcome to Ignoristan!
Hava-nah-da!
That can be answered by the entity managing the asset, but simply put divide the asset by the number of units outstanding, pick a specific point in time and adjust for any subtractions to the revenue stream. KKR may not have been the only subtractions as instruments don't manage themselves and if they were used for others things? So, you can WAG it but w/o all the information... hard to say.
You purchased the bond correct? You have been following along since your purchased the bond right? You can add up what KKR was paid and own some form of calculator. I simply corrected your calculation error and pointed out you would be owed a FT more than you thought. I don't own the bond and I am not due any payout from it, so this is kind of on the owners of those instruments to follow along. I can tell you when instruments I own pay out but I dont really think anyone cares about that. One thing is clear, KKR got paid and I believe you will too!.
So firstly, your statement was false concerning the 2013 10K. It was not in there although repeated and referenced many times.
Second, your new reference is correct but pay very close attention to what it actually states which is only partially supportive of your posit.
"Except as provided in Confirmation Order, on the Effective Date, title to all assets and properties encompassed by the Plan shall vest in the Reorganized Debtors, Reorganized WMI, the Liquidating Trust, the JPMC Entities or the FDIC Receiver, as the case may be, free and clear of all Liens and in accordance with sections 363 and 1141 of the Bankruptcy Code, and the Confirmation Order shall be a judicial determination of discharge of the liabilities of the Debtors and the Debtors in Possession except as provided in the Plan."
The judge did not allow all assets to be included in the plan. Most WMB assets went to JPMC and the FDIC. The largest chunk being ~184B in deposits which of course JPM would be on the hook to pay back to the former customers of WAMU. Once that is removed, ~60% of assets are addressed.
Remember, in any company Assets = Liabilities (- ) Stock holder equity. SE was ~28-29B, so consider about 92+% of assets were attached to liabilities that the court, LT, FDIC, WMIH paid out to claims approved.
However, those were assets listed in the last 2008 WMI 10K (starting point ), dust settles, 2013 10K. Now consider the financial instruments running outside of the WMB Ch 7 (all assets paid out or transferred), and the WMI Ch 11 reorganization ( many claims against assets, but certainly not all) Tax benefits?
WMI was required to hold interest(s) in the financial instruments they produced in the USA and abroad, MBS,ABS, CMBS, in addition had streams from BONDS. Several times in court people were shut down trying to pull those in but they were primarily owned by the purchasers and in staggering amounts. Had that veil been pierced? It would have plunged the world markets, companies, pensions, etc.. into chaos and would have infected all the other financial instruments issued by other entities. They were backed by residential, commercial real estate, and other pledged assets. So, rightfully and wisely, NOT in consideration. Otherwise 2008 would have been a complete collapse.
Now 15+ years later, surprise! most people paid off those mortgages, refinanced at very low rates, same in commercial, assets matured and continue to mature on the longer duration, and that required piece WMI had to hold along with income streams from the bonds... Viola. The restructuring that left the last claimants in line... they may have extinguished the tradable stock certificates, but all companies, corporations ultimately belong to the share holders. A = L - SE.
Will any payouts come from the final FDIC closure? Will the parent pay out a reconciliation once the dust has settled? Do they legally have a choice?
COOP is a registrant sub reporting exactly what it is required to report and nothing more. Doing extremely well due to the many advantages of the parent, tax credits, etc... Please don't act like your here for altruistic reasons. You might not be happy with the amount of time it has taken, nobody is, but don't pick apart certain statements and ad lib to SEC documents. Some of us know which way the wind blows, we just don't know exactly when.
If you can't beat them, buy them!
In the books! $80
It doesn't make that statement in the document. Maybe do a search and then quote the page # etc..
Note: WMI does not exist at the time of your referenced 10K in 2013 does it? So they cant really state anything can they...
https://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/replies.aspx?msg=174289388
as stated by WMI?..... "Title to all assets belong to the reorganized Debtor, JPM, and the FDIC?.
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/933136/000119312514100035/d630387d10k.htm
In fact, search the whole internet and the only place that statement is made is in messages from you on I hub.
Future Value (FV) of the Continuously Compounded @ 5% ~$652,174,860.47
Total Interest $274,174,860.47
Total Contributions - 18M per qtr. x 20 qtrs.
$360,000,000.00
minus what the trustee(s) is being compensated. My Napkin...
So we will add fabricator to your moniker.
Maybe someday you will figure out XXXX all on your own?
Nope, as DD is not your game free rider...
Enjoy the lack of response to the zero value add you bring.
Who here believes this statement?
https://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=174148400
Pickstocks: 725275
Zero credibility, will your pal the fan installer come to save you? Will he back you? Nope. Because he also knows Mr. Infatuation is telling a story.
Come now. Claim its all true picky. State it again for us.. back up your post.