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From what I can deduce from the reference to "a deleted message", you might want to find earlier posts from Divea to read some valid concerns relating to Dhillon. If Divea recently posted a note that was subsequently deleted,that wouldn't be the first time. I'm very, very glad that I listened and researched the concerns...saved me big bucks (by leading me to sell all my ARTH shares).
ARTH has been reneging on commitments/promises for at least the past 5-6 years. It is worth the effort to delve into some of the arguments against ARTH and not just read what the cheerleaders have to say. Either side may be correct--only time will tell. Still, it's only fair that this board allow all sides of the issues at play to be aired.
Thanks Regis999, that's very helpful information. Somehow I never understood it fully; this post definitely clarifies my questions with regard to that issue. Appreciate your taking the time.
Interesting. I thought Norchi said the reason they started the company in an unusual way (some auto parts related company?? in Nevada or something equally odd) was due to a lack of financing because of the 08-09 crash. That's why the timeline seems longer than 6 years. In 2013, the market was booming with plenty of financing available.
Does this help with the timeline?
"Terrence W. Norchi, MD, our co-founder, serves as our President and Chief Executive Officer, and he is a director on our Board of Directors. Dr. Norchi has served in similar positions since co-founding ABS, our predecessor company in 2006."
Going on year 10 or so, but it seems too long, so maybe my math is off. Many have remarked that Norchi and the company are very careful with public statements. I can't believe that after all this time, there is nothing concrete in terms of positive real results (not implied ones) except those involved in lining Norchi and company's pockets. Hopefully, I'm wrong, but this story repeats the same lines every so many months.
I apologize if the clarification on his previous investment position upsets anyone. Those highlighting that he was THE manager of a multi-billion dollar fund did influence me. Seeing exaggerated credentials repeated yet again in order to support Norchi's qualifications/leadership, hopefully you can appreciate that some might find the clarification helpful and relevant. There actually is a substantial difference in serving as an analyst and/or one of many investment managers on a fund versus being the actual top manager of a fund.
I'd still be mighty pleased to be wrong about how this all ends up. I am willing to pay a higher price once, and if ever, the management makes it over what everyone says is an easy hurdle (for several years now and with no product production in sight).
Yes, but the question remains about whether he was THE principle fund manager, or one of many. It was likely the latter. You can assume as much by reading his own biography. The wording is carefully done to leave an impression without directly misstating his position (it worked, because everyone seems to think he was THE fund manager, not one of several experts managing it).
You did a great job in piecing together the many concerns about ARTH. Was Norchi not working--ad hoc consulting--at the time of starting this company ("on the beach")? That does add to concerns, if so. Until now, I was under the impression that he had previously managed a top health-related fund...although, truth be told, I think he was not the head of that fund, just one of many running it. If anyone can confirm one way or another, I'd be interested.
Thank you for the thorough analysis. It's helpful.
You're adding to my sense that the entire company is simply to provide jobs and resources to folks who will never successfully bring this product to market. It is an excellent, legal way to rip off investors who will never be able to prove this is an intentional scam and jobs project for the few writing the redundant "news releases" every so many months/years. Is the SEC at ALL interested in investigating these sorts of low hanging fruit...or does being a penny stock ensure a degree of safety for those making money for doing nothing but taking hard working folks' money (investors)?
I'm not sure how long you've been following this stock, but if a 501(k) is not a challenge, why is it so difficult for ARTH? After YEARS of promises and unsuccessful submissions for both the 501(k) in the US and the CE application in Europe, ARTH continues to announce developments as if they were on their first try. Anyone who has been invested or following this stock would easily be led to feel like a dog chasing its tale, yet never quite catching it. Also, it's more than fair, and quite logical, to wonder if something isn't on the "up and up" with at least some of the board members. Whether incompetence or other reasons explain the lack of results is anyone's guess.
Divea, I still check this board every once in awhile. Thanks to you, my opportunity costs were vastly limited. I jumped off this merry-go-round before the music stopped, leaving me holding the proverbial bag. The submissions announced for approval in the US and in Europe have been repeated over the past few years in an endless cycle. I'm very confused why anyone would trust that "this time," the submission (the LATEST one of so many) will finally be approved.
Sadly, at this stage of the game, it seems that there are more untrustworthy individuals involved beyond Dhillon and now his nephew. This is such a personal disappointment with regard to one of the principals of the company. Indeed, at my age I should have known how much people can change over time and when it comes to money. But yet, it's still hard to fathom.
Divea, I wish there were a way to repay you and Oidegearz!!
Ziptrader was helpful in pointing me to FUSZ, but I didn't last long in that stock because of my experience with ARTH.
I would definitely listen to divea. It took me a while, but in the end he literally saved my hide. Cut your losses if they are not too great. If a miracle happens, you can buy again, but this whole project seems doomed.
Fair enough, but Buffet doesn't invest in penny stocks, let alone penny stocks with horrible track records.
Your deleted posts were a red flag, so I would always quickly print whatever posts I managed to "catch." Sometimes it's not easy to accept contrary viewpoints...in my professional life, the concept of "confirmation bias" helped me be willing to at least pay attention to you. Lately, no one has been deleting yours posts, perhaps because you did predict each failure for as long as I've owned this stock. If ARTH ever does produce a product (on a sufficient scale) and receive approvals, I might still invest at a much higher price, but ARTH's history leads me to believe that this scenario is much less likely to occur.
If it were my guess, it's Dhillon finding ways to manipulate a naïve, albeit intelligent Norchi. You can actually be intelligent, yet naïve....happens quite a lot with decent, hard-working people, unfortunately.
Hey divea, you literally saved me in the tens of thousands. Where do I send a modest check : ). Many thanks, again.
https://insiderfinancial.com/arch-therapeutics-inc-otcmktsarth-stay-away-until-this-issue-is-sorted-out
Unfortunately, you need to subscribe for full content, but the first public section alone, is enough to add the context of yet another opinion.
My guess is they must be sorting out additional financing before going public with additional information for shareholders. The delay is not a good sign, but then I'm more of a traditional investor, so what do I know?
Thanks, NickHous...here's another link on MeTro...wonder if there is a company stock to purchase. If so or whenever there's an option to invest, I'm all in. Seems to have the same concept but with an actual product and more extensive studies supporting its use, which should help get the ball rolling.
http://stm.sciencemag.org/content/9/410/eaai7466
Wow, there you have it. Thanks again Oildegearz.
I understand, but thought the individual deserved to know that any Norchi statements or ARTH PR mean zero at this point, given that until today (and for many years now) those statements never, ever reflected reality just false hope. Any statements from him at this point should be read with the caution of how unfounded his other assertions about eventual results have been. Maybe one day, he'll be correct, but it's worth noting that for years he's gotten it wrong, whether intentionally or not.
No offense, but no press release to date has proven genuine and forthcoming...just info to keep all of us suckers holding tight. Their PRs constitute the ultimate in deceptive propaganda.
Perhaps not an outright scam, for the reasons you mention among others, but Avtar Dhillon might have always had other ideas and manipulated others' inexperience (and naïveté?) to use ARTH for his own purposes as described by divea.
I'm starting to lean toward divea's explanation...well actually I now firmly believe his/her analysis. Just think, there have been zero clinical trials beyond the minimum one in Ireland. There's no production pipeline of a product to sell. There's just all this wheel spinning for "approvals" and NOT for what would be the supposed moneymaker--internal use. Let the last point sink in...that's the real crux of it. Internal use during surgery was the basis for most of those who invested and it's nowhere on the horizon.
They were good at stringing everyone along. Don't beat yourself up over it. Many of us invested on very reasonable assumptions. It's a shame that Norchi (above all) doesn't seem to care even the least bit for those who were trying to help the company and take risks with our hard-earned money based on statements from him and other ARTH executives. They have proven themselves to be of a somewhat low caliber.
Hey divea, you and oildegearz did save my skin. The deleted posts added to my growing skepticism, so they were not in vain. I probably broke even or came out modestly ahead. That would not have the case without either of you posting important information. I'll be forever grateful. Now, in terms of opportunity costs, considering the sum of my other investments, you could call it a loss, but not a painful one.
My childhood friend must have learned to worship the almighty dollar above all else at Putnam. I'm old enough to know people can change, but wow, it's a MONUMENTAL change from the dear person I used to know.
I'm starting to doubt whether I'll buy again when it hits the 20s. We'll see...what a disappointment on so many levels.
I'll buy in again when it hits the low 20s, but then again, maybe not. Can anyone please explain what Whitmore said that was out of turn? Again lots of missing critical information. I apologize to anyone if they were influenced by me and my implicit trust in Norchi to buy into this stock.
I understand that; I also am aware that he left that position to start ARTH over a decade ago. Also, the critical "a" is missing in front of his role as A not THE portfolio manager for the Putnam Health Fund...the way it's been presented by many is that he ran it (understandable considering the wording). Please google portfolio managers for that fund....quite a significant group.
And, as we all know by now, Norchi is very forthcoming with genuine facts. Please excuse my sarcasm, but his half million annual salary now has me utterly irate given the now truly unbelievable happy talk after each failure. I'd love to know what expenses we've been covering in addition to that salary. Absolutely and completely lost trust in him. You can personally google his mansion in Massachusetts--not too shabby for his track record.
Thanks ahab, I've always found your posts helpful and enlightening. I'll monitor developments and hopefully feel comfortable to jump back in. Believe it or not, even if I miss out on a winner, I hope I can celebrate with those who have a stronger stomach than I do. Overall, my age makes these type of bets unwise under the circumstances...not old-old, but old enough. :)
I'm definitely willing to buy shares again, but not until more information is provided, even if that means a higher price. This experience has reinforced my slow and steady approach to stocks, which has made me more financially secure than I could have ever imagined. ARTH has made me to revert to my tried and true method. No lottery ticket, even if my emotions initially led me to trust Norchi might be just that. I still trust him, but this is a huge risk and the opportunity costs will very unlikely ever have been justified, especially considering how well my other investments have done.
I'll buy again when there's an actual marketable product that is in production with interested buyers. I wish I would have kept rereading Oildegearz' post of some time ago...very well thought out.
GLTA those who still trust and believe. I won't be disappointed if your bet pays off and my caution proves ill advised.
Oh, for the love of God and please don't take this personally--if Norchi wanted to share the information, he would have. I still don't recall him fully explaining the CE non-approval. I've read others' explanations, but nothing useful from him. The delusion that some stranger cold calling him will receive more precise information about the 510K is simply that, a delusion. Although I'd love to be proven wrong!
He owes far more of an explanation to the public investing community at this point. He shows, as in the past, zero inclination to do so.
I hate to say this, truly, but your observations are spot on. There has to be a reason for his continued evasiveness whenever there is bad news. The good "news"--with lots of details and no evasiveness--never turns out to be accurate. Then, the subsequent bad news is never properly placed in context so the SH can have a sense of whether their hard earned money is well-invested with ARTH.
I wish it were possible to say otherwise, but that's a pitiful update if he didn't indicate what the "addressable" questions are. By not sharing at least broadly, if not specifically, what the questions are, my concerns are only growing.
Am I misinterpreting the non-update, update? This is getting old.
I wouldn't be surprised, considering many innocuous comments have been deleted lately. I check in often and print out comments that are negative, because those are the only ones that are ever deleted. Come on guys, aren't we in this together??
Let's hope! Having investors there might provide valuable insight.
From all the other corporate "updates" that led to this situation, more corporate spin is unfortunately what I expect. It would be immensely helpful for a thorough, forthright update and no unrealistic happy talk. Even better, it'd be interesting to know the total that has been paid in salaries over the past 11 years and to whom. If it's just Norchi, fine (although 500K per year is a bit much for the lack of results). That salary alone totals 5.5 million.
I hope I'm not misjudging the situation, but the questions are impossible not to pose at this stage of the game.
Many thanks. I see many assignees to Versitech and entities in Hong Kong, but couldn't find any in this list assigned to ARTH.
Some time ago, someone mentioned that the person who invented this particular formulation (Rutledge) is on the board but is not invested in ARTH. That always concerned me, supposing it's true. Still I don't think he would be on the board if ARTH wasn't able to use/market his product.
So many promises, yet not one has come to fruition. Looking forward to the next "real" opportunity of those that you mention isn't quite as exciting considering approvals for far lesser applications haven't gone ANYWHERE. Any day now, someone will tell me to move along since this is for those more intelligent and patient than I (didn't know until today I'm just an ordinary "trader" and not a long-term, i.e. wise, "investor" anymore).
Questioning the obvious shouldn't be discouraged. Confirmation bias is damaging this country in more ways than one, but I never envisioned seeing it applied to investments...thought this was the one remaining area where most of us welcome questions and challenges.
Thanks Ziptrader, I've posed the question multiple times, and this is the first time I've understood that their stock options are at no or minimal cost to them (board members). Along with you, I came to the same conclusion that 500K annually is plenty incentive alone to push forward no matter what. Unfortunately, the media these days lead us to believe that there are just a gazillion people raking it in by the millions as a salary, when the truth is even a half million is exceedingly rare (especially when you don't have results to account for that obscenely high salary). I've just about had it...he could at least reduce his salary to show how much he genuinely believes in the product.
I'm starting to feel royally ripped off!!