Thanks for the update.

Anyone see a laparoscopic Liquidmetal device at Applied Medical? It's coming, I know it!

It's actually not odd. It's a common release term. It prohibits the employee from attempting to come back, if the company is successful, to say they were basically kept out of the loop of pending positive happenings, but were terminated because the Company knew something was about to hit, but terminated them so they couldn't benefit from it. However, it is not to be read positively or negatively. It's merely a standard release. Google this "he may hereafter discover facts different from what he now believes to be true, which if known, could have materially affected this Agreement" and you'll find NUMEROUS agreements where that is a standard clause. Zadesky's not coming to LQMT.

The honest answer is look at the low volume. It's not a question of "substantially more." The issue/question is what effect is his dumping having on the current price? If he's not selling, the price has sustainability. If he's selling, and at the numbers he's selling at, of course it's going to create downward pressure on the price regardless of lack of revenues, cash on hand, etc. And what the heck are management departures? Salas? Ogawa? That's allegedly a good thing. Regardless, if not for Visser dumping, the price would be relatively stagnant, or longs who are looking to reduce their basis would pretty much be the only activity.

18 mill warrants with a .18 exercise price. He's not exercising those any time soon.

There was a great exchange quite a while ago between Hipple of Materion and an analyst, Avinash Kant, of D.A. Davidson (who was a frequent call-in analyst on MTRN's calls) and moved on to Phoenix Venture Partners as a Partner there. Phoenix is apparently a V.C. firm that invests in "innovative advanced materials breakthrough."

Anyway, the exchange that occurred was back on 2/27/14. The questioner <Q> was Kant:

<Q>: So, a question on the Liquidmetal market that you put out some press release about recently. What kind of opportunity are we looking at, and what kind of profitability profile on that business?

Dick Hipple – President, Chairman and CEO
That’s a great question, Avinash, because it’s—we’re at the very beginning of a market. You know, what’s interesting is Liquidmetal has been out there for quite a while. It hasn’t really gone anywhere, and I think the fundamental reason is that there hasn’t been a robust supply chain, meaning that to make the product you need reliable, high-volume die casting technology, is really what’s required. And that’s the—you know, we’ve developed the alloys to support this die casting technology, which actually, alloy development is very critical to help the reliability in the production of high volumes.

So, what’s happening is, I think, with our technology advancements, in combination with technology advancement in the die casting, we’re now set up in a total supply chain that we can actually develop these markets more robustly. So, I think from a near-term perspective over the next couple of years, this market could be in that $5 million to $10 million range. It has to evolve in the normal cycles of qualifications, people try it, it always takes a little bit longer up front. And then you can start to play mental games with yourself that could be much larger, because depending on where the product ultimately goes, it can go in some very high volume-type applications.

The metal is very attractive, it has forming characteristics that require minimizing or eliminating machining and it has strength and stiffness ratios that are out of this world. So, you can start to be silly with yourself for how big it could get. I’d rather not do that, I’d rather say that in the near term, I feel comfortable that the supply chain is coming around right now, that we can support an early market development of this product, and I see a long-term horizon that’s pretty exciting, but in the short term, I would say that over the next several years we could develop a market in the $5 million to $10 million range, and then beyond that, it could be much more exciting than that. I think that’s … .

<Q>: If I remember the history of this one, there were lots of patents that were bought by Apple, actually, from Liquidmetal. Now, would you be making the material for Apple, or not, at this point?

Dick Hipple – President, Chairman and CEO
Well, it would depend on Apple’s decision-making process.

<Q>: That’s not final yet, right?

Dick Hipple – President, Chairman and CEO
It would depend on Apple’s decision-making process.

<Q>: Okay. I understand.

http://www.investorcalendar.com/document/transcript_frame/172194

Did close to two years now make it ripe? Who knows? However, if you listen to the call, reading Hipple's commments here don't do it justice. Hipple was getting a little uneasy that Kant asked him a second time. Clearly, when MTRN has the potential to supply a potential customer like that, you keep your mouth shut.

Agreed - recyclable "waste" is irrelevant until they have a real contract with real sales and space at RSM is irrelevant, as LQMT will likely do very little in terms of significant manufacture because Engel is marketing their machines to customers with the means to purchase multiple machines.

And Materion is finally joining the game:

https://twitter.com/hashtag/BulkMetallicGlass?src=hash

If that is not a possibility, then it's irrelevant. Regardless, then the relevant questions are:

a) is there is a zoning zoning law citation? If yes, and it limits machines, then;

b) there must be other rental space near RSM, if necessary, but most importantly, and most likely;

c) Engel is highly unlikely to be relying on LQMT to manufacture for their clients. Even Engel's customers won't want LQMT to do their manufacture and, if asked, I think LQMT will readily admit that.

It's common sense. Engel is not trying to push the sale of their machines to LQMT. LQMT can barely cover fixed costs right now. Availability of space and machines to Liquidmetal for Engel machines is an irrelevant question - much like, at this juncture, recyclability of "waste," along with the fact why disclose publicly information that may be a strategic advantage. They can sell something first, after MTRN and Engel have run THEIR numbers on "waste" and then the worry can be put on how many machines they need to fit somewhere in the extremely unlikely event LQMT will be a premier machine customer of Engel. GL.

Honestly, it's irrelevant. LQMT will not be doing manufacture for any customers of significance - no way, no how. And Engel is not marketing their machines to LQMT. They are marketing them to customers with the means to purchase numerous machines.

So we've gone from "waste" to "zoning regs." What a waste, but it's a boring Sunday, so go Broncos - even though Visser's a big fan.

a) got the zoning law citation?;

b) no other rental space near RSM?; and, most importantly,

c) Engel's relying on LQMT to manufacture for their clients? Even Engel's customers won't want LQMT to do their manufacture and, if asked, I think LQMT will readily admit that.

It's common sense. Engel is trying to push the sale of their machines to LQMT? LQMT can barely cover fixed costs right now. Come on...

I just found out the waste material was used for the Liquidmetal paperweights. Yay! They found a use for it! A legitimate solution to a legitimate question. Yay! Yay!! Yay!!!

Haha, yes, let's focus on waste when they don't even have a worthwhile contract. If cost is a factor with this - still - with Engel and Materion involved trying to solicit customers to buy it and do it in a way where the benefits exceed the costs, then the waste product is one of MANY issues, several much bigger, that they have related to cost.

And maybe, just maybe, there is a trade secret developed somewhere through CIP wherein there is actually a cost-competitive advantage regarding the waste product, but maybe, just maybe, LQMT should disclose it so Visser Precision could do the same thing to save on their costs as well. Hell, while we're at it, let's let Glassimetals in on it too, because with Demetriou and Johnson having that knowledge as well, maybe, just maybe LQMT can finally have that last nail put in their coffin to seal it shut, so any minority shareholder with a personal gripe with Steipp will smile as their investment is lost.

And, no, I am NOT extolling the virtues of Steipp leadership, only saying that with Engel and Materion on board (MTRN was NOT before, despite what was disclosed) and they don't do something significant this year, they never will IMVHO.

P.S. Anyone else wondering how the MTRN/Visser Precision relationship is working out? That must be an odd one with LQMT growing tighter with Materion. Visser doesn't seem like a guy who doesn't hold grudges and be fine with it.

And Engel has introduced approximately 200 of their valued and large customers without considering that? Holy crap! Engel HAS lost their minds!!!

I also remember Hauck stating in that first speech in York, PA that cost is NOT as much a factor for the "right applications." I would suspect that Engel and Materion checked the math on their "partner," LQMT, before flying Vidal in to Stuttgart for 2+ days, or Engel introducing their customers, from various parts of Europe, to it, unless those two companies are a little weak in their ability to consider numbers, I think they've got "waste" calculations figured out.

A waste pontification is truly a waste of time, at this juncture. What matters is signing a contract - one that makes money. If they haven't signed several contracts within the year, after this Forum, and they fail, does waste matter? No.

GL.

Great question and my answer is some are focused on waste, but those that want to make money are focused on revenues and contracts. They can sit on whatever pile of waste they want, as long as they figure out how to sign contracts and derive revenues. GL.

"Holy Crap" is right. They're doomed. They might as well turn the keys over to the landlord, lay everyone off and walk out the door, and sell anything they have in that "Center of Excellence," along with desks, security systems, computers, pens and pencils, for scrap.

What point does "waste" have when they haven't even sold anything? I wonder, though, if that question was asked (how could it NOT be?) at the Forum and then all 200 participants started mumbling, or maybe not mumbling, (in German, of course) "Holy CRAP!!!" or "Heiliger STROHSACK!!!" as they ran for the exits! Good grief and GL.

Had to jump back in for that info - I'm detecting an extreme lack of knowledge for you not to have numerous replies to that. Thank you.

Been an "interesting" ride all. Time to move on to more constructive pursuits as I get the feeling waves of pessimism and bloat will be arriving soon enough.

The die have been cast. Not interesting in getting ensnared in kharma and BS, and no, not being cryptic; Engel, and Engel Forum, pretty much is the name of the game. GLTA.

Agreed. The sensor case is intriguing, though, because that photo has been around for a while and auto lead times can be long, but we know Engel makes machines for Mercedes (not sure about Volkswagen), and both are in Stuttgart, so it may have some relevance, particularly when comparing quality and cost.

Wow!!! Really??? AWESOME!!!

How prescient was this?:

http://www.themoldingblog.com/tag/engel/

But, of course, if there was any logic to the English language, "hope" would be an expletive - at least as it relates to LQMT.

Spartan, if you had won, I would have highly recommended you not try invest all of it in LQMT...

P.S. We know one thing through all of this. LQMT will not be doing much, if any, manufacture for any big fish, but we also know Engel is looking to sell machines (plural) to big fish. Those big fish will either be buying the machines themselves or directing who the manufacturers for them will be who will then be buying those machines. I've seen numerous Engel machines come into the U.S. sold to various auto parts manufacturers and when they buy machines from Engel, I've seen orders as large as 10 machines at one time. As I recall, I think that one was a car mat manufacturer. Also the guy that owns the Jacksonville Jags - his company bought a load of Engel machines recently - within the last month or so.

Interesting point - they got their website up just a week before the Forum? You know SAGA will likely be there too. Again, IMHO, that's Engel's influence and if Engel is choosing the European mould company for LQMT, that's a great thing.

I'm with you, but great minds informed me that scanner was an old item. Wonderful...anyhow, at least SAGA is profiling BMG's too and you'd suspect that's also Engel's influence because of the forceps and Engel selecting SAGA for the mould for the forceps for that Engel summer event profiling of LQMT.

I've been more interested lately in Engel (Engel with money and connections and history provides more hope for LQMT than LQMT does on its own) and doing a lot of asking around with anyone who has lived in Germany, or lives in Germany, and Engel is extremely well known in Germany with a stellar reputation, wealthy family, etc...so, it begs the question, what are they doing hanging out with LQMT? Damned if I know. As another respected poster stated, no matter how this goes for LQMT, Materion and Engel will still be around. Can't argue with that.

It's all enigmatic, but I prefer silence over pr's that that just piss everyone off more with their uselessness.

My bad, Socket Mobile is a pretty small company - 17 million in revenues, although growing.

However, they didn't list the sensor customer - they left it blank.

Project: Laser sensor case
Customer:
Focus: BMG technology product

Who is it? Is there no customer for it yet? Volkswagen (who owns Porsche and other brands I don't recall) and Mercedes both have manufacturing in Stuttgart. Who knows, maybe it's just a prototype or "pre-production" part? Whatever.

SAGA's site is up. Liquidmetal forceps anyone?:

http://www.sagaplastic.com/en/research

I guess this is an old product? Move down, 3rd item in sequence:

Project: Ring Scanner
Customer: Socket Mobile
Focus: BMG technology product

http://www.sagaplastic.com/en/tooling

Scroll down - 1st item in sequence:

Project: Laser sensor case
Customer:
Focus: BMG technology product

http://www.sagaplastic.com/en/moulding

- I can't believe they talk of a "joint venture" formed back in 2006 - as if they have been on friendly terms all along.

- Regardless of all of the above, I get the feeling someone is going to make A LOT of freakin' money off BMG technology. Just don't know if it'll be LQMT, but they're fortunate to have Engel as a partner; that's a certainty.

Apple has a license in perpetuity that is also assignable to agents (as per the MTA and as per most well-drafted similar agreements) it uses as long as it is in CE. The basic premise is that if Apple was to have one of their agents in the production stream use LQMT/CIP tech, then not only is Apple paying for research that goes into CIP, but then they are also paying an upcharge for using a vendor that is subject to a LQMT royalty. Is Apple that dumb? Think about it. It's a long-standing contractual provision, but it's basic business common sense. You don't refer someone charging you to have them pay for something, and require them to go to another vendor that you know is going to charge them a royalty so they have to charge you more to pass through the cost. GL.

Says it all over - Apple or its agents or its assignees - it's actually pretty standard terminology in an agreement like this. Obviously, you don't have to trust me, but I know a few things about this stuff. GL.

Besides, keep in mind that CIP and Apple use the same law firm in many cases and have even used the same firm for trademark and copyright violations for anyone treading on the Liquidmetal name. There is an inherent conflict of interest in that situation that means the relationship is fairly tight between Apple and LQMT - whether there is a way LQMT will ever benefit from it if Apple uses it, is the great unknown. Personally, I like at Yurko leaving MTRN for Apple and can't help feeling the time is getting much closer, but how close is the perpetual question.

No, if they are employed by Apple, then they are technically an agent of Apple and LQMT could not then charge anyone employed by Apple to manufacture something in liquidmetal that is part of a CE product for Apple. If an agent of Apple had to pay a royalty to LQMT, then they would have to charge Apple more for production. Apple won't allow that to happen, but regardless, they are an agent then of Apple and the CE exclusion applies to agents of Apple.

There are times where I want to believe that Engel held that summer event with the 3,000 customers and profiled Liquidmetal there, then are holding this January Forum, and did, or is doing, both solely allegedly for Liquidmetal because they are repaying a pink sheet, penny stock company with the credible appearance of teetering on bankruptcy, with a more than checkered past, including releasing useless pr's, because they "owe" LQMT for something.

I mean, truthfully, the monetary situation looks so dire to the extent, that if you look at the cash burn, LQMT looks like it should be out of money in 6 months and who, in their right mind, would want to sign a royalty deal with a company like that?

However, if there was some kind of deal signed where LQMT was involved - and you know I'm referring to the fantasy of Engel manufacturing machines for Apple use, that would certainly provide the incentive for Engel not to be risking an awful lot making introductions of their valued, prestigious customers to LQMT. But then the song lyrics pop into my head:

"It's just a fantasy!
It's not the real thing!
It's just a fantasy!
It's not the real thing!
But sometimes a fantasy, is all you neeeed..."

Then I go nighty, nightttt...and get a smile on my face as my head hits the pillow and I dream of sitting cross-legged encircled by singing fairies with voices of velvet, galloping unicorns of splendor, and dancing minstrels pirouetting in a beautiful ballet of synchronization.

And, no, certainly not mocking your post; just emphasizing this has taken an awfully long time and there have been some really MAJOR screw-ups to the extent what Engel is doing, and I don't think anyone on here has been, or is going, to an Engel event, that it almost seems fantasy that Engel would be doing this for Liquidmetal. It really seems somewhat illogical.

Credit mostly to the long-time longs - and I mean those from WAY back because if a big initial investment hasn't forced them to lose their minds by now, they have an incredibly strong moxie, and if they have lost their minds, it's more than understandable.

P.S. That Visser machine does industrial 3D printing.

Because I like to pretend like I think I'm a nice guy. (And to the guy that PM'd me, yes that's what I use too). I only have 6 months back:

DESCRIPTION/SHIP ARRIVAL DATE/SHIPMENT WEIGHT

18 BAGS BERYLLIUM ORE, 8/8/15 397,000 lbs

18 BAGS BERYLLIUM ORE, 8/14/15 397,000 lbs

1600 BAGS OF BERYL ORE, 8/14/15 880,000 lbs

18 BAGS BERYLLIUM ORE, 8/23/15 396,000 lbs

18 BAGS BERYLLIUM ORE, 8/23/15 397,000 lbs

18 BAGS BERYLLIUM ORE, 8/28/15 408,000 lbs

1600 BAGS OF BERYL ORE, 9/11/15 880,000 lbs

1420 BAGS OF BERYL ORE, 10/9/15 781,000 lbs

18 BAGS BERYLLIUM ORE, 10/15/15 397,000 lbs

18 BAGS BERYLLIUM ORE, 11/5/15 397,000 lbs

16 BAGS BERYLLIUM ORE, 11/20/15 353,000 lbs

16 BAGS BERYLLIUM ORE, 12/14/15 353,000 lbs

800 BAGS OF BERYL ORE, 12/26/15 440,000 lbs

16 BAGS BERYLLIUM ORE, 1/2/16 353,000 lbs

16 BAGS BERYLLIUM ORE, 1/2/16 349,000 lbs

And, hey, on 8/21/15, look at what Barney/Visser Precision bought from Germany:

EOS LASERSINTERING MACHINE HS CODE 84798997, 84213920, 85043300, 84219900, 73102111 AMS REF LAX220948 SCAC SSLL. Sold by:

EOS GMBH ELECTRO OPTICAL SYSTEMS in Germany

Agreed, but I don't know if that's shipped from overseas. They might have mines in the U.S. they get that from. Haha, time for us to start digging on that!

Checked USGS (U.S. Geological Surveys) and last records I see show we export twice as much as we import in the U.S., although I also saw Australia and Thailand have some of the largest quantities. However, it makes some sense that if we export twice as much as we bring in, that we already have a lot of it in the U.S. and I saw something, albeit quickly, that Materion mines zirconium in Utah.

Oh well, rest of markets up, LQMT down, back to the grind, haha. Have a good one.

Well, I can tell you for a fact that starting back 1st half of last year, until even now, they were getting hundreds of thousands, and in some cases, a millions pounds of beryl ore shipped from China. It was directed to some woman at MTRN in Utah. If you google around, her name is there in Utah for Materion. I think I even found her linked in profile.

I don't know that it's about nothing, but if they are involved with Apple - and we know they are already one of Apple's gold suppliers - then they really don't have a choice, but to be extremely tight-lipped about it. I'll see what I can find out re that pr to understand it more completely.

Agreed, Grampa had to go anyway, but I think that greased his exit.

I'm just confused by that increase. The only thing I can figure is they have 375 of lines set-up, but the cross-collateral agreements they had with all the banks said they can only have 100MM of lines outstanding, but the new CFO negotiated with the banks, based on projections he gave them or contracts he gave them, that the banks were OK opening all lines up to 300MM.

Bear with me, I'm trying to work through this. I think that's what they are trying to say. Because imagine if you tapped all the banks out of 300 of the 375 available, and then couldn't pay them, they're ALL pretty screwed. But if only 100 could be used previously, then the banks are relatively well protected. I think, not sure though, that is what that pr is trying to say. I'll try and contact the CFO or VP of Finance. If that is the case, agreed, that should be a bullish signal, but I thought LQMT getting equipment financing from RBS was a bullish signal, lol. It's a bit weird to think of debt as bullish, but when you make those applications, there's a load of projections and contracts that have to be submitted to support the increase. As we both know, in these tight credit markets, there's no OK and a handshake.

Anyhow, this is the 6/20/13 allocation of lines, which is the same as now:

SCHEDULE 2.01
COMMITMENTS


LENDER COMMITMENT
JPMORGAN CHASE BANK, N.A.
$ 74,500,000
BANK OF AMERICA, N.A.
$ 63,500,000
KEYBANK NATIONAL ASSOCIATION
$ 63,500,000
WELLS FARGO BANK, NATIONAL ASSOCIATION
$ 63,500,000
FIFTH THIRD BANK
$ 55,000,000
RBS CITIZENS, N.A.
$ 55,000,000
AGGREGATE COMMITMENT
$ 375,000,000

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1104657/000129993313001174/exhibit1.htm

That pr is a bit vague and confusing to me. I checked the SEC filings, since the June 20, 2013 Credit Line Agreement, they have had a 375 million line allocated among 6 different banks, all with similar line amounts of 50-75 mill. This Amendment only changes the interest rate and extends the maturity date. The 100 to 300 mill is what confuses me. Are they saying that they have now used up to 300 mill of the line?

Shipping records show them purchasing large amounts of beryllium from China for a couple of years now, and shipping it to Utah to be processed in the MTRN facility there. I can't see Apple wanting to play with beryllium in Apple devices, but with Yurko there now, you'd suspect if there was a way to utilize it safely, with an inert quality, Yurko would be the guy to know how to do that.

As an aside, if you read the SEC letter in the MTRN filings, Grampa was, without a doubt, let go because of the comments in that letter; nothing intentional, Grampa was just asleep at the switch - in a nutshell; significant internal control deficiencies related to a material asset - inventory. With the new CFO, however, the SEC gave them a clean bill of health.

As it relates to LQMT, hopefully their silence speaks louder than when they open their mouths to say nothing and they've been very tight-lipped lately. I'd prefer that than some BS pr's, even if it means they're chasing their tails. I'd rather they say we're chasing our tails over some of the useless pr's that mean diddly squat.

P.S. I don't think Visser would have to file anymore at this point if it was him dumping in December.

They can pr when they make money, the rest is pointless.

That's interesting. I don't know if there was any updated filing for his December sales, though. I'm presuming that was him dumping in December, but it could have been others that just had enough already - would be hard to argue with that philosophy.

Visser had no problem dumping out at these prices, albeit it was year end loss selling. Why would he stop 30 days later if he is of the same mindset? In fact, if there is a rise, you'd think he'd continue dumping.

Yes, the last 2 days are pretty odd - not in any sort of positive, or negative, way either, just odd. Kind of can't help feeling someone, or something, is messing with the price to move it up to .10.

I know you didn't say it. I said it. MTRN's stock price has been stagnant. He needs to appease those Gabelli funds soon. They have 3 guys on the Board. If he doesn't do something soon, they're going to move him out the way they moved the CFO out. Materion is off 20% over the last year. This was their recent business wire. Sound familiar?:

Painting an amendment to a credit line isn't exactly something that's going to get shareholders jumping up and down with excitement. Plus, he does this every time they do an annual amendment to their credit line. Hipple's history is not good. Take a look at the stock price since he's been CEO. I don't know if he's been a failure or if MTRN just can't find new products and customers to drive sales and growth because they haven't had any. Their top line growth is anemic to negative.

LQMT clearly needs Engel's help, but maybe MTRN is seeking some assistance as well in developing new markets.