HIDE !!!
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the GAME is FAR from OVER !!!!! EZ :)
http://www.redherring.com/index.asp?layout=story&channel=20000002&doc_id=410018641
afceast - I wish I had concrete answers to your questions. Actually, I think there are several posters who would like to provide a "definitive" answer. I share your concern & yet remain optimistic (in a horrid market environment) that HRCT, Yuanta, SA, etc. are 'making the right moves' under current conditions. I think we've GOT to give credit/patience to the underwriter (Yuanta) for telling us WHEN the timing for SA/ipo MIGHT be a bit more conducive to successful launch. THAT's what they do ---- far from me to second guess them. I can only attest to what was shared at the Roadshow mtgs.---- SA now proposed to launch ipo in April. As to the other companies coming to market.....NO DOUBT anything can happen between now/then. But, we do know it is THE PLAN to monetize those subsids. I do believe that IF we can get SA ipo out/up and running it will be a HUGE catalyst to more positive investing climate for HRCT and JV's. HOWEVER.....the overall market conditions CAN still hamper or take us down. Fact is that OTC-bb are now the LAST to get investor's $$$$$ ...and...
the FIRST to go when they need liquidity ie. margin calls, tuition payment:) and/or tax payments. So, in summary ~~~~ very much a wait/see game we play. Let's hope....ultimately...out patience PAY$ off !! EZ
p.s. TFN probably has the UTMOST viable perspective on these boards regarding HRCT ==== under promise / over deliver !!!!
This 'game' is FAR from over !!!
http://www.redherring.com/index.asp?layout=story&channel=20000002&doc_id=410018641
For those who read/follow George Gilder's Technology report...here is a "new" shareable 'The Friday Letter' put out by Gilder. Hope you enjoy the content...some great links also.
EZ ( I liked the Off the Boards piece as I'm high on GX )
from Gilder Publishing
THE FRIDAY LETTER
e-mailed weekly, for friends and subscribers
=================================================
/ http://www.gilder.com /
April 6, 2001
HEADLINES:
* The Week/George Gilder on Hot Air
* In the April Digital Power Report/Analog Power
* Peter Huber/"I'm Buying Tech Stocks"
* In The American Spectator/Techno-Horror
* Off the Boards/Jeff Stambovsky
* Readings
* Conference Calendar
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
For SUBSCRIBE and UNSUBSCRIBE information, please see the bottom of this
email
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
THE WEEK/Hot Air
The global warming debate reveals that plutomores—rich fools—have reached
high positions in the Administration of George W. Bush. Apparently fooled
by copious coverage of the Democratic "victory" in Florida, many
Republican grandees remain baffled by the presence of conservatives in
Washington. Treasury Secretary Paul O’Neill actually came to believe that
he was moving to the city to serve as a token Republican in the
administration of Al Gore. The Alcoa corpocrat devoted his first Cabinet
presentation to an earnest tract on global warming, urging his baffled
companions to save the planet from Republican religionists apparently
awaiting the second coming in rubber boots on Long Island beaches and golf
courses. He all but said the Earth Is In the Balance.
Washington is not alone. In a scientific establishment fifty percent
financed by government, scores of scientists have undergone the pressures
that befall any critic of the cult of human-caused global warming.
Fortunately, not all. My friend Arthur Robinson has been battling climate
doom sayers for a decade from his Oregon redoubt. Craig and Keith Idso's
Center for the Study of Carbon Dioxide and Global
Change--www.co2science.org --picks up pieces the heat-addled press won't
touch, including a trenchant summation by Columbia's National Medal of
Science winning climatologist Wallace Broecker in the prestigious pages of
Science earlier this year. Entitled “Was the Medieval Warm Period
Global?,” Broecker's answer is a resounding “yes,” and builds the case for
a series of climatic warmings spaced at roughly 1500 year intervals.
Harvard astrophysicists Sallie Baliunas and Willie Soon, citing evidence
from peat bogs in northeastern China, have extended the record of such
swings back a full six millennia. They report changes in the Sun's energy
output 70,000 times more significant than all human activity put together.
In the end, the global warming panic will take its place in the history
books next to other environmental chimeras, such as the threat of DDT (but
not of pandemic malaria), the peril of nuclear power (but not of coal
mining), the brain curdling effect of cell phones (but not of far more
potent sun rays), the menace of power lines (but not of poverty).
Politicized scientists with government grants and dubious computer models
persuaded the world’s politicians to make pompous fools of themselves in
Kyoto. Socialist politicians were happy to join a movement to impose
regulation over the world energy supply, and thus over the world economy.
The science is blowing up in their faces. But rather than admit error they
persist in fear-mongering. When this happened with DDT, hundreds of
millions of people died of malaria. They continue to die. How many people
would die as a result of an energy clamp on global capitalism?
George Gilder
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
IN THE APRIL DIGITAL POWER REPORT/Analog Power
"Analog Power? In a digital power report? Hard-wired analog power-control
circuits are dumb. They aren’t programmable. Their primitive logic, such
as it is, is fuzzy. But they are also blindingly fast, compact, frugal—and
ubiquitous. Like the reptilian brain at the back of every mammal’s skull,
an analog metronome establishes the clock speed and supplies the first
layer of order deep within every array of digital MOSFETs, IGBTs, bipolar
transistors, and Pentiums."
April's Digital Power Report, by Peter Huber and Mark Mills, is online
now. DPR subscribers can log in at http://www.digitalpowerreport.com
(The April Gilder Technology Report will be posted Monday April 9th
mid-morning. GTR subscribers log in at http://www.gildertech.com.)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
PETER HUBER BONUS/"I'm Buying Tech Stocks"
In Forbes, April 16th, 2001:
"Most of the growth in digital markets has come in sudden, convulsive
spasms, with periods of relative calm in between. Each successive stage of
eye-popping growth requires years of incubation, during which hardware and
software accumulate and networks form. Then some critical mass is finally
reached, a chain reaction begins, and the product or service makes an
abrupt transition from techno-curiosity to mass-market necessity. Wall
Street overreacts to the quiet interludes just as much as it overreacts to
the crescendos. While the technologists calmly play their way through the
never-ending symphony, the momentum traders swing from euphoria to
despair, and then—count on it—back to euphoria once again."
Read the full story at
http://www.forbes.com/columnists/forbes/2001/0416/196.html (registration
required)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
FROM THE AMERICAN SPECTATOR/Stop Everything… It's Techno-Horror
"They say he's here."
"Who's here?"
"Bill, stupid."
"Bill's not stupid!"
"Hey, there he is. Amazing."
"What do you mean? Where?"
"Over there. By the phones."
"Wow. They say he flew coach."
"Nah, he rode in on a donkey."
"But they say Reno and the feds will string him up. Klein
claims he's a monotheist."
"Monopolist, you idiot."
"Anyway, forget Reno and Gates, think Joy.
Joy is coded for bear."
From Silicon Valley via Aspen, Sun Microsystem's Bill Joy wants to call
the police. On science. On technology. On the industry that made him rich.
George Gilder and Richard Vigilante fire back at the Luddites improbable
new hero. Read the full story at http://www.gilder.com
The American Spectator is available by subscription at 50% off the cover
price—see below or http://www.spectator.org.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
OFF THE BOARDS/Jeff Stambovsky
Q: What to own when the market turns around?
A: Fastest rebound? In January XLA, NOPT and TERN led the way. I'm not
sure that that's where you'll get the most bang for the buck this time.
But there are, broadly speaking, a number of thematic alternatives:
Theme 1: Debt Matters. If the capital markets re-open for business before
the waste material collides with the electromechanical cooling device,
then the leveraged IP carriers--which are increasingly being treated by
today's market as call options on whatever equity may remain--could snap
back strongly. Right now both the bond market and the stock market are in
no mood for making fine distinctions between failed CLECs and ISPs, and
aggressive next-generation IP carriers with leveraged balance sheets. Is
the market right? Or is this the kind of broad-brushing that creates
opportunities? As far as the market is concerned, Winstar is Covad is
Psinet is Metromedia Fiber is Level3 is Global Crossing.
The market will turn out to be completely right, of course, if the
economic downturn goes on for several more years; partially right if it
continues for several more months. But a world in which GX has lost its
equity value is a world in which all I want to own is a fallout shelter
and an AK-47.
That said, I would not play with the milk money in leveraged carriers,
particularly in spots where the bond market is sending strong contrary
signals. I'm hearing GX bonds in the high 80s, MFNX in low 70s, LVLT in
mid 60s, and TSIX in low 30s. I always like to point out that the bond
market is not always right about the prospects for a given issuer. What it
does tell you is the availability (and price) of public high yield
financing for any given company at any given time. I also like to remind
everyone that that there is a relationship between risk and return--the
higher the leverage, the higher the risk. One of our human failings seems
to be an inability to stay conscious of both "R"s at the same time. It was
a rare quality at NAZ 5000, and it's a rare quality today. Final thought:
never forget the big distinction between company risk and return, on the
one hand, and portfolio risk and return on the other.
Theme 2: Cash Counts. The young optics companies that were smart enough
(or lucky enough) to get a public grubstake before the window closed will
emerge from this unpleasantness stronger than the private companies who
never got in. Everyone's concerned about the disruption of the disrupters,
but the disrupters with cash will be sitting pretty when the buildout goes
back into high gear. My reasoning: A stock market that allows VC to exit
scores of fledgling components companies--either through acquisition or
IPO--is a stock market in which Avanex trades, well, a LOT better than
it's trading today. All those Telliums and Chorums--where are they going
with Avanex languishing at 3 times revenue? Nowhere. The public won't
touch 'em, and neither will Cisco.
Of course, if we've completed the build-out, they're all equally dead,
right? Not necessarily. There's a good case to be made that this kind of
market will hasten what my Gilder colleague Bret Swanson calls "the death
of incrementalism." With the kind of sweeping change we've witnessed over
the past year, what carrier or company isn't going to think seriously
about skipping a technological generation when they sit down to their next
IT budget? If it's September 2001, and we're once again birds and not
windshields, is Mr. Network CTO really going to upgrade the old stuff---or
replace it?
Theme 3: Global Crossing.
Theme 4: The Sweetest Spot. At some point, the market will again pay a
premium for blue-chip management, entrepreneurial aggressiveness, and
solid corporate DNA, especially in a company whose operations touch a
whole bunch of telecosmic sweet spots. To me, that's Broadcom.
Theme 5:Global Crossing.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
REALITY CHECK
From The New York Times: “In the past two weeks, all the market averages
have plunged to new lows, as Wall Street, beset by cruel economic news
from all sides, has time after time been unable to mount a sustained
rally. That is a discouraging omen, an indication that the bottom has not
been reached, many securities analysts say, and a sign that even the most
steel-willed optimists may be about to throw in the their towels. ‘The
market’s going to take the ultimate dive to culmination in the next few
weeks,’ said James L. Freeman, Director of Research at the First Boston
Corporation, echoing the comments of many other market strategists.
‘Batten down the hatches.’”
Publication date? August 15, 1982.
Thanks to eFinance Insider, the excellent new biweekly edited by
RagingBull founder Bill Martin. Free subscriptions at
http://www.efinanceinsider.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
READINGS
Simon Cao Muxes
http://lw.pennnet.com/Articles/Article_Display.cfm?Section=Articles&Subsection=Display&ARTIC...
Failure of VC Investments Could Spell Trouble For Start-Ups
http://www0.mercurycenter.com/business/top/069484.htm
Cisco: Victim of Past Success
http://news.ft.com/ft/gx.cgi/ftc?pagename=View&c=Article&cid=FT3V35AZ3LC&live=true&u...
Did AOL Shoot the Messenger?
http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1005-201-5464191-0.html?tag=tp_pr
Hopeful Times for US Media
http://news.ft.com/ft/gx.cgi/ftc?pagename=View&c=Article&cid=FT3QR84K2LC&live=true
Power for a Digital Society
http://www.epri.com/Journal.asp?issueid=245906#ARTICLE-245909-2
Wall Street Springs Eternal
http://www.redherring.com/index.asp?layout=story&channel=20000002&doc_id=410018641
Auditing Classes at M.I.T., on the Web and Free
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/04/04/technology/04MIT.html
(Registration required.)
FBI Struggles to Retain Cybercrime Experts
http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/0401/040501td.htm
Bill & Larry's Excellent Adventure
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010405/tc/stocks_wealth_dc_4.html
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--==-=-=-=
GET THE GILDER TECHNOLOGY REPORT
Monthly, from the heart of the Telecosm
http://www.gildertech.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
GET NEW ECONOMY WATCH
Reshaping the Competitive Landscape
http://www.neweconomywatch.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
GET THE DIGITAL POWER REPORT
Electrons matter
Download two free issues at http://www.digitalpowerreport.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
GET DYNAMIC SILICON
Linking the Microcosm and the Telecosm
http://www.dynamicsilicon.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
GET THE AMERICAN SPECTATOR
Online special--50% off cover price!
http://www.gilder.com/AmSpecSub.asp
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
GILDER CONFERENCE CALENDAR
April 10-12, Storewidth 2001, The Ritz-Carlton, Dana Point, CA. Bandwidth
is just the beginning. Register now at
http://www.gilder.com/Storewidth/Storewidth.htm
June 5-7, The Gilder Global Technology Forum, Grosvenor House, London UK.
Leading the next global technology revolution. Special offer for early
adopters at http://www.gilder.com/london/LondonEvent.htm
September 12-14, Telecosm V, Squaw Creek Resort, Lake Tahoe CA. The one
and only. Produced by Forbes Inc and Gilder Publishing. Details and
registration at http://www.forbes.com/conf/telecosm/agenda1.shtml
October 22-24, Powercosm 2001, Featuring Peter Huber and Mark Mills, The
Fairmont Hotel, San Francisco, CA
Digital Power in the Silicon Age. Register now at
http://www.gilder.com/powercosm_forms/Conference.asp
October 24-26, New Economy/2001, The Millennium Broadway, NYC. A front-row
seat on the transformation of corporate value. Produced by Forbes Inc and
Gilder Publishing. Details and registration at
http://www.forbes.com/conf/neweconomy/agenda1.shtml
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Friday Letter is published weekly for subscribers and friends of
Gilder Publishing. If there is someone you think would enjoy it, please
feel free to forward a copy.
FRIDAY LETTER STAFF
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Contributors to this week’s issue: Charlie Burger, George Gilder, Peter
Huber, Mary Catherine Martin, Spencer Reiss, Mark Shaffer, Jeff
Stambovsky, Bret Swanson
ADVERTISING INFORMATION
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pretty good read on broad array of equities/perspective.
http://www.custerconsulting.com/Pages/publications/cmag0401.htm
jmap ~ I have thought about that...and...hope YOU are very correct, in hindsight...on that one. I have sent a couple of questions to HRCT inquiring about "full disclosure" and HOW (and IF) it has the same definition for SA/ipo on GEM. I would like to know what the parameters will be for open communication similiar to domestic holdings. Let's hope our foreign plays......ARE ALL....(ultimate) winners through this domestic turmoil. EZ:)
I actually believe this is a fairly BIG part of price pressure on HRCT (and other otc-bb stocks) EZ
As Cash Disappears, Small Software Cos. Are Prey
This situation is far from unique to software. This is one reason down markets favor big companies with solid financial footing.
By Lisa Baertlein
PALO ALTO, Calif. (Reuters) - After defying the laws of business, gravity and nature during the technology market's go-go days, analysts say that small, unprofitable software companies are becoming prey to larger players as those laws again take hold.
``It's all one big Darwinian soup. Things form, operate, disintegrate, re-form,'' said Denis Pombriant, research director at the Aberdeen Group.
Among the companies already feeding from the trough are British accounting software maker Sage Group Plc (SGE.L), British electronic-business software vendor Merant Plc (MRN.L) and Minneapolis, Minn.-based e-commerce software provider Digital River Inc. (NasdaqNM:DRIV - news)
Activity is expected to become frenzied as little vendors, which once wielded market valuations rivaling those of well- established companies, fall victim to pessimistic investors and corporate America's diminished appetite for technology.
They are stuck in a vicious cycle. The flagging economy has stunted sales, which has contributed to plummeting stock prices. When shares are depressed, it is hard for unprofitable companies to go back to the market for money to fund operations as falling revenues fuel the burn of cash reserves.
``There were some companies that came out on the scene a year ago that you could tell were going to be R&D (research and development) acquisitions, they didn't have critical mass of their own to do battle in the world,'' Pombriant said.
Big Fish Eat Little Fish
``We have a lot of activity and a lot of deals in the process of being announced on the software side,'' said Robert Thornton, Deutsche Banc Alex. Brown's head of West Coast technology mergers and acquisitions.
``We have a different world. It doesn't really matter where the company got funded by the VCs, or what the last round of financing was. What matters is, 'Where do we go from here?''' Thornton said.
Industry giants like business-to-business (B2B) software maker i2 Technologies Inc. (NasdaqNM:ITWO - news) and SAP AG (SAPG.DE), Europe's biggest software maker, are already gobbling up private players such as RightWorks Corp. and TopTier Software Inc.
Analysts say cash-rich companies like No. 2 software maker Oracle Corp. (NasdaqNM:ORCL - news), e-business vendor PeopleSoft Inc. (NasdaqNM:PSFT - news) and others will soon be queuing up.
Timing Is Key
At the close last year, time and money appeared to be running short for Interact Commerce Corp. (NasdaqNM:IACT - news)
The Scottsdale, Ariz.-based company, which makes popular SalesLogix and ACT! selling software, started 2001 with net debt of $19 million.
In March, Sage Group Plc struck a deal to buy Interact in a cash transaction valued at $263 million.
E-business software vendor NetObjects Inc. (NasdaqNM:NETO - news) in February sold its enterprise division to Merant Plc for $18 million in cash. At the end of 2000, the company had $2.8 million in cash left, according to company filings with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (news - web sites) (SEC).
While the cash-burn scenario that laid waste to the dot-com sector applies to struggling software makers, analysts say they will not be decimated the way the dot-coms were.
``Software companies, for the most part, have some kind of outright technology that will be valuable to someone -- as long as the price is right,'' said Mark Verbeck, senior analyst at Epoch Partners in San Francisco.
Cash Poor
If you can count the number of months a company can run on its remaining cash on the fingers of your two hands, it needs to be looking for survival alternatives, analysts said.
Kana Communications Inc. (NasdaqNM:KANA - news) is among the companies seeing its cash reserves dwindle.
The e-business software maker said Tuesday it has $20 million in cash remaining. It has cut staff to 870 from 1,200 and plans to outsource the hosting of its e-mail service in an effort to trim operational cash-burn, which was $30 million in the recent first quarter.
Calico Commerce Inc. (NasdaqNM:CLIC - news) -- which said in March it was selling its B2B exchange software division to Digital River in a stock deal valued at $7.8 million -- had $5.2 million in cash and $37.1 million in short-term investments on Dec. 31, according to SEC filings.
While selling all or part of a company can be a godsend, there are risks.
When acquiring companies make stock purchases, their targets can be taken on a bumpy ride that may leave them more battered than before the deal was struck.
That became clear earlier this week when former B2B darling Ariba Inc. (NasdaqNM:ARBA - news) walked away from its much-hyped merger deal with Agile Software Inc. (NasdaqNM:AGIL - news) after the Mountain View, Calif.-based software maker said the economic downturn would cause it to post a surprise loss and necessitate the elimination of one-third of its work force.
The value of the stock deal fell to about $400 million from $2.55 billion as Ariba's stock price dropped amid a multi-month rout of technology stocks.
Agile, which makes software that lets businesses share product designs and plans with their suppliers over the Web, said it would take a $5 million charge related to the unconsummated deal and the expense would cause it to post a fiscal fourth-quarter loss instead of the small profit the Street expected.
Andy - absolutely excellent factual "post" ~~~ THANKS for
sharing it. EZ
Also, pls. check your iHUB MailBox for a note from me !!
OT: pretty good stuff on broad array of subjects
http://www.custerconsulting.com/Pages/publications/cmag0401.htm
OT: TickerNova ~~ funny & so true also !! Hey pls.
check your iHUB MailBox ~~~ EZ
OT: This is a MUST READ for everyone !!!
PANIC AT THE DTC--A MUST READ FOR DNAP LONGS
medina minerals inc(mdmn)shareholders committee—posted by elrac—3april 01
As you probably have heard by now, the Transfer Agent of Medinah filed an “Adverse Claim” lawsuit against the DTC(depository trust corporation)
http://www.dtcc.com/ last week.
He had to do this because he was caught in a pickle between a company insisting on the names and shareholdings of all individual beneficial owners, and the DTC that didn’t want the world to know the shareholdings of the 6,000 shareholders that they were acting as custodian for.
Our contact at the DTC confirmed that on Monday 4/2/01, the DTC threw in the towel, and ordered the 124 brokerage firms that own Medina to contact the company headquarters and provide them with the name, address, and accurate shareholdings of each and every one of their shareholders that they hold shares for.
The ball is now in the court of the 124 brokerage firms.
The much sought after exchange of an omnibus certificate of 60 million shares of Medina Mining, for an omnibus certificate of 59 million shares of Medina Minerals, which would basically allow this house of cards the illegal short sellers have built to dodge another bullet, will not occur.
This committee has waited 4 long years for this to happen.
We can now communicate with all of the 7,100 shareholders of Medinah for the very first time, if the brokerage firms comply. We will have 100% visibility of the phantom shares, and the sellers thereof will be forced into the open market to buy these shares back on behalf of their rightful owners, who have been diligently seeking their delivery for months and months, but to no avail.
Our committee’s legal consultants inform us that this is an absolute first in the history of the DTC.
Wow! After 4 long years of death threats, market manipulation, being stalled and lied to by brokerage firms, being dragged through the mud by Internet bashers, being accused of lying, distorting the truth, etc. It’s really over.
Well how about that! The hundreds of examples of anecdotal as well as empirical evidence of the existence of a massive short position really weren’t fabricated after all.
Les really didn’t have anything to do with the death of Mother Teresa, and Greg didn’t cause the Holocaust. All of those censuses that dozens of people collectively put hundreds of hours into really did tell the truth.
So just how big is this legal victory, and what are its immediate consequences?
The best way to address this is to put your feet into the shoes of a market maker that has just shorted 50 million shares of Medinah over the last 4 years. Being a “bona fide” market maker he has been allowed to sell as many “phantom”(naked) shares of Medinah as he could get away with, and believe us when we tell you that there aren’t any cops on the beat.
All of those buy orders over the years that he sold phantom shares into now have to be placed under a microscope and accounted for, due to the recent litigation victory.
The 124 different brokerage firms that currently own Medinah have been ordered to go through their records and review how many of those purchases actually were followed up with good delivery.
Brokerage firms don’t worry at all about good delivery until situations like this arise. Things are so chaotic on Wall Street and the commissions are currently so cheap that it is cost prohibitive to follow up each of the billions of trades done by various firms to determine if good delivery has been made.
There are literally billions of IOU’s floating around in cyberspace that are rarely audited.
If some market maker failed good delivery, then there is plenty of time later to see which one did it, and how many shares he failed to deliver. The all-telling paper trail is always there.
Based on the presumption that half of our brokerage firms are “dirty” in regards to this illegal short selling campaign, and that half are “clean”, what we foresee happening in the next couple of days is that the 62 different “clean” houses will go through their trading records and determine how many shares they should have in their account at the DTC, based on 100% good delivery by the respective market makers, and compare this number to how many shares they in fact have in their account there.
The difference between these two numbers will then represent how many shares were not properly delivered by the market maker after their purchase.
The brokerage firm will then go into the open market, and buy that amount of shares under a guaranteed delivery notation, and promptly hand the bill to the various market makers guilty of not making good delivery.
The fun part is that the trading desk at the brokerage firm doesn’t particularly care how much he has to pay for the shares because he’s not going to pay the bill, besides it will be nice to get these pesky Medinah shareholders off of our backs bugging us for delivery of certificates. He does, however, have to buy real shares out of the back pocket of one of us with a registered cert there, which is a lot more expensive than just buying in the open market, and getting shares shorted to you. The broker then hands the recently purchased share cert to the shareholder who was demanding delivery of his cert. Brokers can no longer use the excuse of a “chill” or “freeze” at the DTC.
Thus the immediate effect at a “clean” brokerage firm pertains to dirty market makers that didn’t make good delivery being bought in via the open market. One has to remember that the only people that have a cert in their hands right now are the 70 or 80 million that have had their registered Medinah Mining certs processed by the Transfer Agent. How many of these want to get rid of these certs a couple of days before a big fat dividend is earned is the other side of the equation that must be evaluated. All 60 million shares available at the DTC will come from these “clean” brokerage firms.
Now what will happen to the “dirty” brokerage firms that knowingly filled all of those purchase orders over the last 4 years with phantom shares? They will have to approach the 1,500 or so of us that hold the “real” registered certs. Let’s say that the date by now is April 20 or so. The problem again arises as to who among them wants to sell their shares right before the big dividend day.
But to complicate matters, the State District Attorney’s office is now in high gear with a gun at the head of the “dirty” brokerage firms insisting that they hand a registered cert to the shareholder that filed charges within the next 72 hours.
To further complicate matters, the “dirty” brokerage firm doesn’t want to cross that May 1 dividend record date for that would increase his short position by another 20%. So basically, you have a situation from April 20-30, wherein a zillion shares are trying to be bought because of dividends, deadlines, pressure from District Attorneys, and the risk disappearing because of the recent litigation victory, at the same time that nobody wants to sell any shares.
What would really be scary to ponder is what would happen if the good guys put together a 50-100 million share buying campaign driven by all of these favorable overlapping circumstances. Just think of 50-100 million shares of buying all going after those dividends which would have to be covered by the short sellers, and paid to all buy orders that settled by and started the registration process by April the 30th.
What other sequel can we anticipate? Any shares loaned out by the DTC or the lending department of a brokerage firm, will of course, have to be surrendered, exposing some investors especially from offshore. All of those “desked” buy orders over the years that never did show up as trading volume on any given day, will of course be exposed. Any shares hypothecated against loans or towards net capital reserves of a broker/dealer will of course be pulled also. All of those bogus electronic transfers that were done will have to be negated, since all shares are being delivered to the home of the registered shareholder. Please remember also, DO NOT return your registered certs back to a broker until the day you want to sell some shares. Our second bogus cert showed up last Thursday. It was for 500,000 shares.
Our first one was for 870,000 shares. Our third one came in the form of a bogus convertible preferred share for a very, very, very large amount of shares. Be on the look out for dozens of other ones. Any share not mailed out from the Transfer Agent in Salt Lake City should be carefully scrutinized. Our auditing firm has informed management that they are filing litigation against those forces that spent two years doing everything in their power to thwart the successful completion of our financials. They are doing this independent of Medinah.
The 20% dividend process might bear further scrutiny. The beauty here is really threefold:1)The company itself doesn’t have to pay the dividend for a year, yet the shorters short the dividend have to pay it immediately upon demand. There aren’t many ways to cover Rule 144 shares if the company is not willing to help them. 2)Most commonly, the perpetrators of the “bear raid” are forced to cover the dividend immediately with free trading shares, thereby adding a little bonus to the shareholder. 3)The 20% dividend on the record date of May 1 also sets up a time barrier that the shorts don’t want to breach, for any short position not covered by May the 1st becomes 20% larger, because shorts are liable to cover any dividends awarded to a shareholder during the time he is short.4)This then puts the short sellers into the unenviable position of having to cover his short position in the April 20-30 time frame, when a ton of opportunists are also buying for the free dividend, which also just so happens to overlap with the timeframe when all of the shares are in a registered format, and in the back pocket of loyal shareholders who have no intention of selling and losing their free 20% dividend.
Thus we can dictate when the “bad guys” have to cover. Then if you accidentally throw in some pressure from the regulatory officials, the civil litigation, and the State District Attorneys, you come up with a severe supply and demand imbalance.
There is still the possibility that some brokerage firms will fall asleep at the wheel, and sleep right through the May 1 deadline. We must pre-suppose that all of the firms will do this and we must have the State District Attorneys ready to strike right around April the 10th. All of us with shares in the “pipeline” of registration must do this without exception. Also make sure your brokerage firm has undone all electronic transfers. Also don’t fall victim to a broker trying to convince you that you don’t need to take delivery of your registered cert.
This is the oldest trick in the book wherein a broker convinces you that all you need to do is to tell him when you want to sell, and he will credit your account with the proper amount of money in a mark to market fashion, based on where the market is trading on that day. What we want your broker to do, however, is to aggressively chase the market upwards while buying in your certs. Make him do this with the same fervor he showed while shorting you your shares in the first place.
The rock hounds on the committee seem to be awfully excited about the recent petrographic analyses. Apparently we are extremely close to the porphyry/pluton.
A hearty welcome to our fellow “shortees” over at PCBM.,
Best of luck on your project, we’ll be following your progress closely.
We’d like to thank all of the shareholders for their patience and persistence over the last four years, we firmly believe that your pain is now over. There is still a lot of work to do, however. Roll up your sleeves and sign up for one of the committee positions. If you bought shares from an offshore account, there is an extremely high likelihood that you will be presented with a counterfeit cert in the near term. Please call any irregularities to the attention of management. A hearty welcome also goes out to our newly discovered shareholders in Chile. Those of you that took part in the pooling of buy orders about 18 months ago, are probably aware by now that the order you folks put in for 10 million shares collectively was shorted to you in its entirety. We are currently working on your situation, and expect a very hasty remedy. So please hang in there for just a little while longer. One of our lawyers in Santiago will be meeting with you soon to explain this phenomenon of illegal shorting and why you have been unable to receive your certificates yet. Whatever you do, please, please, please don’t return your certificates back to the brokerage firm through which you placed the order. The attorney will explain why. Stay tuned…..
about medina minerals
http://quicken.excite.com/investments/news/story/bw/?story=/news/stories/bw/20010306/a2478.htm&s...
David - The beauty of iHUB....you can express your feelings/state your case/engage in viable dialogue WITHOUT getting hammered...into a one/one arguement...or...saturated w/ horrendous BASHER posts. I think there are many who share your thoughts right now on HRCT...you have made some very viable points....and, I know Dr. Phan is now "viewing" this board ~~~~ I'm also of strong conviction that there are MUCH brighter days ahead for HRCT (and companies)......just not sure it's going to be in*sync (great name for group) w/ my personal timelines. EZ
Mark - totally agree. Ray actually has me looking at some of those COAL stocks quite closely too. And, iBOX enhancements look GREAT !! EZ
jointhefun -- pls. check iHUB MailBox.
HOLYBULL - I am only responding to this to underline two important things for ALL to read. First, there is NO ONE on this board that is here to censor ANYTHING ! Second, there ARE people on this board who are here to uphold the intent of both the HRCT board (clearly stated in iBOX) and InvestorHub
defined site parameters. To underline that, your message will remain as posted....in hopes that everyone will read this response as well. Enjoy the HRCT board on iHUB :)
otc-bb pilot project update:
http://www.otcbb.com/news/2001/GeneralNews/lopdelay.stm
Question for the board - WHO is the resident board expert on China/Chinese Financial procedures/China Investment process and or some combination of above?? Guess I could throw Chinese Accounting Principles in as well. Do we have anyone here who fits the bill --- or --- close to it ?? I would like to pose some questions to that person(s). EZ
TFN - I wish I had something concrete to respond to you..but, I don't. However, there were a few posters earlier today...and...I think even late last night that offered up some "perspective". Some of it may be repetitive from RB though. I think TIN, MD7 and a couple others added some thoughts ---- but, I also think most everyone HAD SOME surprised looks after reading details --- I know I did.
~~ Please take time to read ~~ Purpose is only to inform :)
Here are the answers to the most frequently asked questions about iHub
What is the Chairman of the Board concept?
The Chairman of the Board concept (COB) is a very unique feature to iHub. We created this feature because of the wide-spread problem with spam, personal attacks, and bashing without reason or facts. As Chairman of a Board, you can delete messages, manage the opening information to the board, manage the e-mail list for that board or club, and add/delete Directors to help you watch over the board. The Chairman, if he loses interest in the stock, sells, or otherwise can pass on his powers to a new Chairman. (If a Chairman has become inactive and you can not get a hold of him, e-mail Support, and he can be replaced). The COB concept was designed to keep discussions focused, clean, and fresh -- not cluttered with useless links and bickering. This is a new concept, so make sure you read all FAQs and How To's associated with the various features! And use them wisely!
OT: I know a few of the HRCT shareholders are also CHAG shareholders. If interested, there is a CHAG board on iHUB also. There are also some pretty interesting other boards on iHUB also ~~~~ check out some of them from the 'home' link...especially some of the 'general topic' boards...some good investing discussions / market topic discussions, etc.
WELCOME !!!!!! Now, I gotta let boatRgirl know you're here:)
Deb - YOU got it !! And, better check the box again :)
I was going to mark this OT: but then I thought heck, everyone needs a bit of humor today ~~~~~ and, I think the last line has some "on topic" perspective for all of us EZ
We let out a Horselaugh over these tidbits of wit and wisdom and hope you
enjoy them also.
Good judgment comes from experience and a lot of that comes from bad judgment
Don't squat with your spurs on
Lettin' the cat of of the bag is a whole lot easier then puttin' it back
If you're riding ahead of the herd, look back now and then to make sure it's
still there
When you teach a a lesson in meanness to a critter or a person, don't be
surprised if they learn their lesson well
Never kick a cow chip on a hot day
If you find yourself in a hole , the first thing to do is stop digging
It doesn't take much of a genius to spot a goat in a flock of sheep
Always drink upstream from the herd
There are two theories to arguin' with a woman, neither one works
If you get to thinkin' you're a person of influence, try ordering sombody
else's dog around
When you're throwin' your weight around, be ready to have it thrown around by
sombody else
Never miss a good chance to shut up
The quickest way to double your money is to fold it over and put it back in
your pocket
hey Temp --- you found it !! Just left link on HRCT
board for you. (you can disregard it now :)
And.....agree with your post also !!!!!
tempontheroad - "eloquent post"...and here is the link:
http://www.investorshub.com/beta/board.asp?board_id=427
Matt/Premier - I agree w/ both sides FWIW !!
EZ :)
Deb - I remember TIN telling me something about 1 big after hours sell that did not show up in regular trading activity.
Seems that may have balanced out some of the late day activity.
But........"no guess here" as to what caused it?? OT: did you check you iHUB mailbox ????
Gen. George -- first paragraph....ROTFLMAO !!!
second paragraph ~~~~~~ "gold standard post" !!!
Tx. EZ :)
Mark/Tin - I can add to Buffet discussion....and it also underlines what I just said in previous post IE: gamesmanship.
First, not but a few days ago..articles hit the air that Buffet "would not be buying anything right now"!! Well, full disclosure DOES work....reported today, he just took significant positions in GAP and WellsFargo....and I believe UGI !!! Hmmmmmmm....looks like ONE of the BIGGEST boys is buying ---- hmmmmmmmmm !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)
OT: Mark - It would make more tangible sense to know WHAT board that msg. came from....but, suffice to say in these tough mkt. conditions could be from "about any board". Although I "do not" agree with every word (call it DUMB if you like :)~~~~~ what I do believe is it's just going to be a tough 2nd quarter (hopefully NOT as bad as Q1) and the general market is going to feel the pain. Just think about what's happened in a VERY SHORT period of time...............
1. 1998/1999 "euphoria" in the mkt. led by TECH 'bubble'
2. sustained economic/personal financial growth for 10+ yrs.
3. late 1999 - 2000 'bubble burst' >>>> OUCH !!
4. markets begin to tank....culminated in the worst qtr. in
recent history RE: Q1 (every major MUTUAL FUND in tank!!)
5. new administration w/ all of the election nightmares.
6. 2001 ------- financial nightmares from the git-go !!!!
7. navy sub sinks Japanese research boat
8. WTO talks extend ad infinitum
9. Greenspan does not "curtsy" to Wall Street !!
10. SPY PLANE DOWN in China !!!!!!!!!!! :(
There are other things which could be added, no doubt. But, (hate that word) ----- there is also some "major" gamesmanship going on right now also ----- MD7 posted a VERY viable article just a bit ago. It's a "sign" of things to come...."history" will repeat itself...on the markets ------ let's hope what appears to be an EXTENDED timeline for many things today....like other things now in retrospect.....turn out to be shorter than we're thinking right now w/ ** see above list.
Wow....may be my 'windy-i-est' msg. (no applause pleEZ) :)
NOTE: this is a repost from another board...but, I thought it "captured" what is becoming a watershed of market/economic doom and gloom ==== THIS IS NOT from "any HRCT board" !!! FWIW--
The Great Depression is almost here...
People dont realize it yet but the market is about a month away from completely crashing. The Nasdaq will go under 1000 in less than a month. The Dow will slip to 8000. At that point everything will crash.
What technical analysis tools am I using to support this? None. Since TA is useless right now. In fact the only time that nonsense works is when people believe and are willing to buy which is not right now. In fact people are selling.
And what I love are the analysts and brokers lying to everyone and telling them the bad news is over. It is not.
It is only about to begin.
I honestly regret putting my money in the market and in listening to any, any advice I've heard since then from anyone relating to the equities. No one on this board or on Wall Street knows anything because there is nothing to know: this game is called gambling pure and simple.
My mistake was in listening to the lies and BS of a million and one people. I learned a valuable lesson about naivete. Indeed Ive learned a million and one lessons about life.
Still, those of you here on this board are some of the brightest people on this site. And for my money some of you XXXXXXXXXXXXX know more about what is going on than most brokers.
If it sounds like Im bitching it is because I am. My life is perfect right now except for this bs and it is my hope one day to recover my money and get out of this mess I somehow put myself in.
MD7/Mark/Cabby - Is it at all possible that the "new" full
disclosure mandates come into play at all with this ie. news and/or lack of......until officially announced ?? EZ
OT: In spite of market conditions, devoid of investor confidence, fraught w/ business earnings warnings ==== the WORLD goes on...business continues to expand....in OUR neighborhood >CHINA.
This is just one example of it ~~~~~
Monday April 2, 11:00 pm Eastern Time
Press Release
SOURCE: Asia Global Crossing
StarHub Joins Asia Global Crossing-STT Alliance to Form StarHub Crossing
- Joint venture will bring competitive choice and alternative international connectivity to Singapore
- Singapore through StarHub Crossing will be seamlessly linked with more than 200 cities worldwide via the Asia Global Crossing and Global Crossing network
- StarHub and STT commit to significant capacity purchase on Asia Global Crossing systems
SINGAPORE, April 2 /PRNewswire/ -- Asia Global Crossing announced today the formation of StarHub Crossing, a joint venture with StarHub and its parent Singapore Technologies Telemedia (STT) that will establish a terrestrial network within Singapore to connect with Asia Global Crossing's pan-Asian East Asia Crossing subsea system.
(Photo: http://www.newscom.com/cgi-bin/prnh/20001004/ASIALOGO )
Asia Global Crossing holds 50 percent of the venture with the remaining 50 percent held by StarHub and STT. As part of the agreement, StarHub and STT commit to a significant capacity purchase from Asia Global Crossing. STT and its affiliates will use StarHub Crossing and Asia Global Crossing as their preferred network providers.
By leveraging StarHub's existing broadband terrestrial network, StarHub Crossing will initially focus on the construction of a backhaul network and telehouse within Singapore that will connect with Asia Global Crossing's East Asia Crossing to bring carriers, Internet Service Providers, and multinational corporate customers in Singapore additional international capacity and seamless access to more than 200 business centers via the worldwide Global Crossing Network.
Upon completion, East Asia Crossing, will be the first truly pan-Asian system, linking Japan, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Korea, Singapore, the Philippines, Malaysia, and, as regulations permit, China, on one seamless network. It is expected to land here at the end of the year.
For StarHub, this new joint venture is expected to further accelerate growth in its International and Wholesale segment, which provides telecommunications infrastructure, facilities and services to other local operators. The venture facilitates Asia Global Crossing's ability to offer customers city-to-city, not just shore-to-shore connectivity. StarHub Crossing will provide capacity products such as IRUs and IPLCs to customers at competitive prices.
``The formation of StarHub Crossing marks a significant advance in Asia Global Crossing's business plan of partnering with the leading companies in each of the countries East Asia Crossing connects,'' said Mr. Anthony Christie, Vice President, Strategy and Business Development of Asia Global Crossing. ``StarHub Crossing gives customers competitive choice and new alternatives for international connectivity to Singapore. Through our partnership with StarHub and STT, Singapore will seamlessly link to 200 cities in 27 countries in the world.''
``StarHub's partnership with Asia Global Crossing marks another significant milestone for us as we deliver on our promise to bring competitive, high quality infocomms services to Singapore. We have now extended StarHub's own domestic optic fiber cable to over 500 commercial buildings in Singapore. The relationship with Asia Global Crossing will serve to rapidly expand StarHub's global network platform, offering secure, high performance connectivity to StarHub's customers form their desktop in Singapore to major cities around the world,'' Mr. Terry Clontz, President and Chief Executive Officer of StarHub said.
About StarHub
StarHub is a Singapore operator for both fixed and mobile telecommunications services. StarHub is positioning itself to offer customers in Singapore a comprehensive info-communications package for all their communications requirements including fixed and mobile phone to Internet services.
StarHub aims to be the leading innovator of info-communications solutions, enhancing customer choices and their quality of life. It has built a new generation, integrated broadband info-communications network that is principally fiber-based. This new network infrastructure in Singapore has the capability to provide true fixed and mobile converged services on an integrated platform offering customers access to the latest communications solutions.
More information on StarHub can be found on http://www.starhub.com.sg
About Singapore Technologies Telemedia
Singapore Technologies Telemedia (STT) is a leading ``New World'' global info-communications service provider. It offers a wide suite of services through various subsidiaries and associates. These services include fixed and mobile telephony (StarHub), e-commerce solutions and services (stt.com), paging (ST SunPage), mobile data communications (ST Mobile Data), digital mobile communications network (ST Advanced Radio), satellite services (through ST Teleport), cable television (Singapore Cable Vision), distribution of telecommunications equipment (TeleChoice International) and research facility for IT and telecommunications companies (TeleTech Park). Through STT International, the company has established a strong presence in China. Its China GSM network covers major cities in Szechuan province and has about 52,000 subscribers to date. STT's nationwide paging network, a joint venture with China Unicom, covers 21 Chinese cities and boasts two million subscribers. STT is a wholly owned subsidiary of Singapore Technologies group, a multinational conglomerate headquartered in Singapore with interests in Engineering, Technology, Infrastructure & Logistics, Property and Finance.
About Asia Global Crossing
Asia Global Crossing (Nasdaq: AGCX - news), a public company whose largest shareholders include Global Crossing (NYSE: GX - news), Softbank (Tokyo Stock Exchange: 9984), and Microsoft (Nasdaq: MSFT - news), provides the Asia Pacific region with a full range of integrated telecommunications and IP services. Through a combination of undersea cables, terrestrial networks, city fiber rings and complex web hosting data centers, Asia Global Crossing is building one of the first truly pan-Asian networks, which, in combination with the worldwide Global Crossing Network, will provide the Asia Pacific region with seamless access to major business centers worldwide. As part of its strategy to provide city-to-city connectivity, Asia Global Crossing partners with leading companies in each country it connects to provide backhaul networks.
Statements made in this press release that state the Company's or management's intentions, beliefs, expectations, or predictions for the future are forward-looking statements. Such forward-looking statements are subject to a number of risks, assumptions and uncertainties that could cause the Company's actual results to differ materially from those projected in such forward-looking statements. These risks, assumptions and uncertainties include: the ability to complete systems within currently estimated time frames and budgets; the ability to compete effectively in a rapidly evolving and price competitive marketplace; changes in the nature of telecommunications regulation in the United States, Asia, and other countries and regions; changes in business strategy; the successful integration of newly-acquired businesses; the impact of technological change; and other risks referenced from time to time in the Company's filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission. One is cautioned not to put undue reliance on such forward-looking statements, which speak only as of the date of this press release. Asia Global Crossing expressly disclaims any obligation to update or alter any forward-looking statements, whether as a result of new information, future events or otherwise.
FOR FURTHER INFORMATION
STARHUB
Press contact: Robin Tan (Singapore), 65 825 5166, robint@starhub.com.sg
ASIA GLOBAL CROSSING
Investor contact: Jensen Chow (Los Angeles CA), +1 310 385 5283,
jensen.chow@asiaglobalcrossing.com
Press contact: Madelyn Smith (Los Angeles CA), +1 310 385 3816,
madelyn.smith@asiaglobalcrossing.com
General information: www.asiaglobalcrossing.com
SOURCE: Asia Global Crossing
Tuesday April 3, 9:23 am Eastern Time
Press Release
SOURCE: Kanakaris Wireless
Kanakaris Wireless Offering DSL in Dramatic Expansion of B-to-B And Consumer Services as Company Embarks on Plan to Become A Household Name in Wireless Technology
High Profile Sales of DSL and SuperBroadband Support Kanakaris Online Movie Delivery in Near-DVD Quality
ALISO VIEJO, Calif., April 3 /PRNewswire/ -- Kanakaris Wireless (OTC Bulletin Board: KKRS - news), which has previously introduced proprietary CinemaWEAR(TM) encoding to improve video delivery for businesses on the Internet and KANWIN(TM) (Kanakaris Wireless Independent Network) to improve delivery times for web sites, made a dramatic announcement today. It will now offer DSL and SuperBroadband(TM) connectivity for both consumers and business across the United States at competitive prices. DSL brings a dramatically faster delivery of the Internet over traditional 56k, which enhances media rich web sites like the Kanakaris Wireless online movie site, CinemaPop.com.
``Following up on the establishment of our landmark KANWIN, Kanakaris Wireless today makes DSL available to most consumers, both business users and individual consumers, across America. This service will provide Kanakaris with recurring monthly income for connectivity, while also allowing us to deliver movies in near-DVD quality to each of our DSL customers,'' said CTO Robert Wood.
``Unique among all companies offering DSL delivery, Kanakaris Wireless also benefits from the ability to deliver movies in near DVD quality to each DSL customer,'' said CEO Alex Kanakaris.
``Kanakaris Wireless is selling both the razor and the blades in the next generation of the digital delivery business, and is enjoying strong support from the large investors who have long believed in the business vision of Alex Kanakaris,'' said a longtime Kanakaris Wireless shareholder and financial backer.
``Now Kanakaris Wireless is making a move to compete with the biggest players, and who would have expected this from a little entertainment related company which started out as merely another dot comer. While others become dot goners, Kanakaris is now firmly on the way to becoming a household word, in my opinion,'' said another Kanakaris Wireless shareholder and member of the Kanakaris Board of Directors.
Kanakaris Wireless said it will post basic rates and access information for DSL connectivity on its web site (www. CinemaPop.com, www.KanakarisWireless.com) within 48 hours, and is offering the service effective immediately. DSL is just one of many services offered under the KANWIN umbrella, and all services will be described online at the web site (www.KanakarisWireless.com) by this Friday.
Kanakaris will be emailing 70,000 of its CinemaPop registered users with DSL connectivity information. Similarly, Kanakaris will provide all of its DSL customers with 30 days free access to all Kanakaris Wireless content, including 500 feature films and other video features.
For further information on Kanakaris Wireless (www.KanakarisWireless.com, www.CinemaPop.com) please call Shareholder Relations: Colby Marceau, 714-444-0560. For media interviews only contact 714-235-2539.
Safe Harbor Statement Under the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995.
With the exception of historical information, the matters discussed in this press release are forward-looking statements that involve a number of risk and uncertainties. The actual future results of Kanakaris Wireless could differ from those statements. Factors that could cause or contribute to such differences include, but are not limited to, our ability to obtain financing as the need arises, the overall state of the Internet and e-commerce industries and the data control console industry, economic conditions generally, the financial health of our customers, market acceptance of new product or service introductions by us or our competitors, the timing of expenditures in anticipation of future sales, returns of our data control console products and the timing and nature of revenues from our Internet and e-commerce businesses and data control console product sales that are recognized during any particular quarter. The inclusion of forward-looking statements should not be regarded as a representation or guarantee by Kanakaris Wireless or any other person that our objectives or plans will be achieved. CinemaWEAR, KANWIN and SuperBroadband are trademarks of Kanakaris Wireless.
SOURCE: Kanakaris Wireless
OT: Da! -- pls. check your iHUB MailBox. EZ
OT: The other side of the current China issue
http://www.commondreams.org/views01/0402-06.htm
Is It Really Any Wonder That the Chinese Are Sore Over Spy Plane?
It's hardly surprising Beijing hasn't rushed to hand over a U.S. spy plane and its 24-man crew involved in a mid-air collision with a Chinese air force fighter on Sunday. To understand why, flip the script for a moment: Imagine a Chinese plane flying a surveillance mission off the Florida coast colliding with an Air Force F-16 sent on an aggressive monitoring mission. The U.S. fighter goes down and the pilot is lost; the Chinese plane is forced to land on U.S. soil. The incident occurs at a moment when China is about to supply a package of sophisticated weapons to Cuba (possibly including the very same model spy plane now in U.S. hands); is planning to deploy a missile shield that would neutralize the U.S. nuclear arsenal; and has signaled that curbing U.S. regional ambitions is to become the organizing principle of its military doctrine. Imagine further that the incident comes two years after Chinese bombs had destroyed (albeit inadvertently) a U.S. embassy in Europe... It's unlikely Americans would feel in a particularly forgiving mood, either.
Still, both in its more aggressive response to U.S. patrols around its airspace and in its detention of the downed surveillance plane, China — or at least some hawkish elements in the Chinese leadership — appear set on playing hard ball. Although China's announcement Monday that it would grant the U.S. access to the detained personnel appeared to signal that there are limits as to how far Beijing wants to push President Bush into a crisis, the fact that Chinese sources reported that the plane had been boarded in defiance of the U.S. insistence that it is sovereign territory suggests a more provocative stance.
The air crash in the South China Sea couldn't have come at a worse time for the President, precisely because relations between Washington and Beijing have been deteriorating over the U.S. plan to build a national missile defense system and, more immediately, its proposed sale of destroyers equipped with the sophisticated Aegis anti-missile system to Taiwan. Comments by Bush administration hawks — most notably Defense Secretary Rumsfeld's recommendation that containing China become the strategic focus of U.S. military doctrine — have done little to sweeten the atmosphere in which U.S. diplomats must now persuade their Chinese counterparts to hand back the crew and the plane. Taking a look around the plane will certainly be tempting to the Chinese military, since the EP-3 is on Taiwan's shopping list.
OT: Chinese board U.S. plane, take gear
From CNN
HONG KONG, China -- Chinese military officials have boarded a grounded U.S. surveillance plane and removed equipment from it despite U.S. protests.
In a signal that a standoff between the two nations is not likely to end soon, Pentagon sources told CNN on Tuesday that China had begun removing sensitive eavesdropping equipment from the plane.
They added that this did not bode well for getting the plane back soon.
The United States considers the plane sovereign territory that should not be boarded by Chinese soldiers.
Pentagon officials also said that if China does not release the 24 crew members soon, it is hard not to consider them hostages.
The fate of the U.S. crew members, now in their third day of captivity on the Chinese island of Hainan, has yet to be determined.
U.S. officials are preparing to meet with the crew in the Hainan Island capital of Haikou. The crew were last heard from shortly after the emergency landing Sunday on Hainan, following a mid-air collision with a Chinese fighter, one of two that had been trailing it.
A U.S. official has said the next several hours -- into Tuesday evening Washington time -- would be critical in determining the course of the standoff, and whether it would cause any lasting damage to U.S.-China relations.
"Our people need to see the crew and need to see them soon," this official said.
President George W. Bush on Monday demanded immediate access to the crew and the return of the top-secret surveillance aircraft.
China says it is the 'victim'
In its defense China said on Tuesday it is the "victim" in the spy plane standoff.
China has asserted a right to inspect the sophisticated aircraft and called on the United States to end surveillance flights off its coast.
China has accused the U.S. EP-3E plane of veering into one of two F-8 fighters on an interception mission 60 miles south of Hainan in international air space.
"We have sufficient evidence," Jiang told the visiting Prime Minister of Qatar, Abdullah Bin Khalifa Al-Thani.
The United States must "bear full responsibility," the official Xinhua news agency quoted him as saying.
Jiang said the United States should stop such flights, saying this would be "conducive to the development of the China-U.S. relationship."
An accident
The United States says the collision was an accident and the plane was on a routine surveillance mission in international air space.
The Bush administration says it has no plans to apologize to China and is playing down Beijing's call for an apology, a U.S. official said. Jiang's comments intensify the verbal skirmish between China and the U.S., which has further strained relations between the two.
U.S. president George W. Bush has already complained about the lack of information flowing from China and has demanded the immediate return of the plane and its crew. (Transcript of Bush's remarks)
Meanwhile, three U.S. warships have been ordered to move out of the South China Sea area after U.S. officials said China had rejected offers of help to locate the missing Chinese fighter pilot.
'Not happy'
The U.S. expects to make its first contact on Tuesday night local time with the spy plane's crew.
"We expect to see the crew tonight but we are not happy it has taken 60 hours [to gain access]," said U.S. ambassador to China, Joseph Prueher.
Five U.S. diplomats have arrived in the Hainan Island capital of Haikou, where Chinese officials have told them a meeting will take place with the crew of the U.S. propeller-powered plane, roughly the same size as a Boeing 737.
The third member of the U.S. diplomatic negotiating team remains at the Gloria Resort on Hainan Island's southern tip, in the event of a change in circumstances.
The crew of the stricken spy plane has been in Chinese custody since the collision, which occurred over the South China Sea about 100km southeast of Hainan Island.
China's Foreign Ministry spokesman says U.S. crew members are safe
Reports have said the U.S. crew was taken off the plane, with a Chinese source telling CNN they were being held individually, but did not say where or under what conditions.
Bush 'troubled'
President Bush has said he was "troubled" by China's response to the incident and called for "immediate access" to the crew.
The midair collision made news in Chinese newspapers Monday
Twice within an hour on Monday, he called for a release of the plane "without any further tampering."
The U.S. ambassador to China, Adm. Joseph Prueher, said he believed Chinese officials had been "all over" the U.S. plane, which is a potential intelligence treasure trove. (More on the equipment)
He said the crew was trained to destroy sensitive materials in the event of an unplanned landing, but it was unclear how successful they might have been.
"We think that they, at least, started on some destruction of the material on the aircraft," he said.
But a Chinese foreign ministry spokesman said China had every right to examine the incident because the U.S. spy plane "rammed a Chinese plane in the air," then entered Chinese air space without permission and landed on a Chinese airport.
Military analysts say the plane could still reveal secrets about what kind of information the U.S. military is collecting and how that data is processed.
Slow response not unusual
U.S. officials were growing increasingly frustrated as the hours dragged by without contact with the crew, last heard from shortly after they landed in Hainan when they radioed that armed Chinese soldiers were boarding the plane.
While U.S. officials have complained that China is slow in responding to diplomatic contacts, it's not unusual for China's bureaucratic system to take a long time to make decisions, especially where the military or national security concerns are involved.
The collision comes at a sensitive time for US-China relations, ahead of the new Bush administration having to decide on possible arms sales to Taiwan, which China considers a renegade province.
Navy planes routinely fly off China's southeastern coast to monitor military activity, especially any that might threaten Taiwan, and they often are shadowed by Chinese fighter planes.
China also opposes Bush's advocacy of a missile-defense system and has adamantly opposed Taiwan's request to the United States for the sale of four destroyers equipped with the Navy's most advanced anti-missile radar system. Bush was nearing a final decision on the sale of the destroyers and other military hardware to Taiwan and was expected to announce his decision within a few weeks.
Viv / Steve: posted this over on RB site. Hopefully, some of the interested will take a look. No doubt KKRS deserves some good discussion / dialogue (exempt the crap posts)....lot happening @ KKRS !! EZ
Interested KKRS board members...this is NOT spam....
just wanted to let you know...there IS...another option.
Disregard the HRCT wording there is a "live" KKRS board on the link --- FWIW (yes, I am a KKRS shareholder!!) EZ
-------------
~Outstanding Group of HRCT Shareholders forming~
VERY IMPORTANT ~~ All HRCT investors -or- interested investors......please read !! >>>
You now have a NEW choice of participating in and/or viewing a MORE common sense discussion on The
Hartcourt Companies. I have started a new HRCT board and "invite" you (if interested to join us there). I think you
will like what you see...and...with time to get "those who count" familiar with the new board, appreciate the
common sense discussion. NOTE: this board "allows" messages to be removed which are deemed
inappropriate and/or outside of intent of board objectives. Please take a look !!
http://www.investorshub.com/beta/default.asp
(Voluntary Disclosure: Position- Long)
"couple of short crib notes" :)
1. My personal compliments to EVERYONE who has popped in here.
Whether you are posting / reading / lurking or ALL of the
above ~~~~ hope you're finding the quality of the board up
to your expectations.
2. Posts / msgs. / dialogue over past couple of days on this
board is excellent. I hope there IS value to "another option
for HRCT discussion / learning" beyond RB. NOTE: no intent
to replace it......just offer another option for those who
are interested.
3. I "highly" commend everyone....yes even runoverbasher....for
NO personal attacks. Kudos to all !!!!! We all have
opinions, thoughts, perspective and dual sided arguements...
all of which have SOME merit. THANKS everyone !!!!!
4. I personally have many questions on 10K....and no doubt will
learn a ton from others wisdom and knowledge to "dig" up the
facts.....and/or....develop some great back/forth dialogue for
all of us to benefit from as shareholders / interested
shareholders ----- or "sellers". No doubt we ALL have our
personal "drummer" which we must march too -- that's cool.
5. finally...now that the board seems to have (at least in it's
infancy) taken on LIFE...I will be posting much less ~~~ no
need for applause :)
Let's hope for a "green" HRCT day...and, the beginning of some clarity to the 10K questions/issues. EZ