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I don't know how the numbers will be 1st quarter, but they had a lot of issues still going on, so I am just saying I would temper my expectations. I will be more interested on how the debt situation looks than how much revenue has grown. After 2nd quarter is when I think you will start to see major growth in revenue.
Dudeness I agree with you. I was wrong on my expectations for fourth quarter, but after thinking about it and speaking to a few people that are very in the loop on what is going on it makes sense for the poor fourth quarter numbers. After the uplisting failed, financing dried up and they could hardly get the product to the distributors. They were still dealing with that problem in the first quarter as well. That has been what Phil and Dan have been working on nonstop since they came on board. From my understanding, they have made tremendous progress. It also makes sense why they have been so quiet with news releases. Why put out positive news before earnings when you know how that the numbers are going to be disappointing. It would only give the price a short term bump to turn and fall right back down after numbers are released. That only benefits traders.
I believe they put every type of loss they could get away with in the fourth quarter so they can set themselves up in a better position for 2015 numbers
There are a few on this board that understand. It doesn't make any sense with the way management's comp is structured and how the new financing is being structured and the entire reason why Phil and Dan were brought in in the first place, which was to save the company, to go and dilute it into oblivion! The old management could of done that with a 1/100 r/s! Sure there is some needed conversions going on right now, but i bet we find out shortly it is being done by note holders that management trust in order to take back control of the company. So yes, this might go from around 20 million OS to 40 million or a little more, which isn't ideal, but needed. Even after that, look how undervalued this stock is going to be if the financials come out decent at all. Just as Honeycomb stated along with a few others, management has a plan to turn this company around and they are executing on that plan. Management and the new lenders new exactly what was going to happen yesterday and how much more will take place and they are comfortable with that IMO or they would not of given them the $ in return for a bunch of warrants. This is also why they have stayed silent on the pr's IMO. The PR's will come out when the pain is over and there will be nothing to hold the stock back, which will be very soon IMO.
People that got scared and sold out yesterday, right before financials come out next week, I am sorry but you do not deserve to benefit from what's about to happen. I will post again after the financials come out to either say I told you so or I was wrong and if I am wrong I will not be afraid to admit it. We will all know shortly.
That makes a ton of sense and I posted how that could be happening and the math behind it when the new financing deal came out last week. The new note holders are most likely very close with management and it would give them control back. Personally, I have a lot of money invested with this company and I would much rather have the ECIG bod controlling the future of the company instead of the ihub board. Right now all the shorts and anti ecig people are laughing and talking about how screwed the long ecig shareholders are, but I feel very confident that after they report next week it will be a very different story. I believe management has been silent for a reason and it hasn't been to hurt the shareholder, only the weak hands. There is enough information out there to piece together the puzzle and the ones that have or are lucky enough to be holding this stock when managements attention does turn to the share price, will be handsomely rewarded IMO.
Christjamin reread my clarification post. I said I do not agree that ECIG is at its peak. I believe the exact opposite. What I agreed with was that there is a market for vape shops and they are growing rapidly.
I should clarify what I agree with Lpool about. I agree there is a lot of growth in vape shops and a lot of opportunity there. There are a lot of vapers that prefer that personal touch and feel of the vape shops. I do not agree on other points he makes such as ECIG is at its peak growth and will start to decline. I hope and believe there is a chance that ECIG sees an opportunity in that area and takes advantage of it.
I usually don't jump into people's conversation, but I found this one very interesting. I am very bullish on ECIG, but I agree with what Lpool is saying. Independent vape shops are popping up like crazy and do account for a very large market share, but because they don't report, it doesn't get counted. Again, I agree with most of what Lpool is saying about them, the problem for them though is new regulation, which will most likely be coming sooner than later, could make it very expensive and difficult for many of them to survive. I have taken Phil up on his offer to talk to him. One of the things I asked him is why they wouldn't acquire one or two of the leading vape shops that are starting to franchise and franchise them across the country. You could use that model to continue to grow the market that Lpool is talking about, especially when regulation comes and a lot of the competition there gets wiped out, while at the same time continuing your current strategy with mass distribution. Within the vape shops, they could offer their own product as well as the more personalized products that are being currently offered there and still use that personal touch that those patrons are used to.
His answer to me was that he couldn't speak to that because nothing about that has been made public, but then he said " I can tell you that everything is on the table." Take from that what you will, but I would not be surprised if you saw them acquire a vape shop or two and tap into that market that Lpool is talking about in the near future.
This is One possible explanation on why the financing is set up like it is with $13 million in a convertible note at 5 cents due in one month. If they do a 10/1 R/S that 5 cents becomes 50 cents and outstanding shares become 30 million with insiders holding approx. 5 million (I know it is a little less than that). If that note is held by someone or group that are about to become insiders or at least will be very close to the insiders, if they convert the note immediately they would get 26 million shares to pay back the $13 million. That would give the insiders approx. 31 million shares of the new 60 million outstanding shares and now they would have the majority and control again. This is something these lenders might require in order to lend them $. This is not what I am saying is going to happen, I am just saying it is a possibility. If it does happen, I think it will be followed by some very good news such as 4th quarter numbers. It would get diluted, but it is not going to go bankrupt, which is the most important thing. I do believe the fundamentals will be strong enough to make this investment at the current share price a once in a lifetime investment even after the dilution I mentioned above. Again, this is not what I am saying is going to happen, it is just a possibility.
I am very pleased with the financing they have arranged. Obviously there are a lot of posters here tonight that don't have a clue how much better this is now than before. Management has went and aligned everyone's interest (from the shareholder to management to even the note holders) to stock price appreciation! Yes, these notes are convertible, but their biggest incentive is the warrants. The higher the share price goes up, the more the warrants are worth. Why would they recklessly convert their notes if it is going to hurt the share price, which will hurt the price of their warrants. I am not saying that there isn't going to be some dilution, but it will be managed and done with concern of the stock price. These are note holders with whom management is very comfortable with and this is setting the foundation for long term, stable growth. The people that were expecting a traditional 6% loan with no strings attached are clueless. If you do not see the positives of this financing you should probably sell tomorrow or better yet, short the stock and see how that works out for you.
Here is my theory on the last few days of trading. This is all just my opinion of what caused the heavy volume and price action. What if by design, heavy buying came in to push the price above 14 cents and then at that price the recent convertible note holders, that they just recently borrowed from and are probably shareholder friendly, were able to go in and convert all they could to lock up the OS at 300 million. They gagged the TA at 287 million and no one knows for sure if it ever got maxed out. This move assured that it did get maxed out. Now if big news comes out next week along with Dan officially starting, this stock will have nothing holding it back. This is the only thing that makes sense to me why out of nowhere, volume skyrockets and pushes it to over 14 cents ( which is the minimum amount that the new note holders can convert at) and then the next day sells off with heavy volume. Who would be selling going into the weekend before Dan starts and rumors of news coming with that. besides traders taking some profits, I don't think there would be many people selling unless it was the last bit of dilution to clear the way for next week. I sure hope I am right, because if I am, next week will be crazy!
You can change your vote. I believe you just need to contact your broker or you can even call ECIGs investor relations. If someone has already changed their vote, it would probably be a good idea to post how you did it. One other point I want to make to people who aren't sure if management has the shareholders best interest in mind, look at their compensation packages and look and see how much insider shares have been traded since this company started. Their salaries are very modest and they haven't sold any shares during this entire 99% drop in stock price. Their opportunity to make big $ is all tied to stock price appreciation. Why in the world would they do something like a R/S if they didn't feel it was the best course of action to eventually increase the stock price. Phil has $5 million in options he is getting per year the next 3 years! Why would he do something to hurt the stock price! If you do not trust the management, than why in the world would you be invested in the stock. Do people think they know more than Phil and Dan to get us out of this mess? As I urged in my previous post, please take Phil up on his offer if you want more information on why you should vote yes.
I have spoke to Phil the last two nights and I can tell you with 100% confidence that it is in every shareholders best interest, that is long the stock, to vote yes for the R/S. I can tell you that something very big is contingent on us passing the R/S. They are not so concerned about the A/S and preferreds issue. If you are not comfortable with that than go ahead and vote no. I can assure you that they do not have the votes they need yet and that every non vote counts as a no. This is really hurting the yes vote. I was surprised to hear this because I, like many of you, assumed they had it wrapped up and that our votes wouldn't really matter, but they do. I know people want more guidance on why they should vote yes and I asked him for it and his reply to me was it is very tricky with legal on what they can put out there because they have already stated their intentions on how they want you to vote. He did give me permission to give out his personal contact information and he very much wants to speak to you. I don't have a pm account, but you can pm buckeye18 and he will give it to you. This is way too important not to take him up on his offer if you are on the fence or need more information before voting. If you are too intimidated to call, have a shareholder you know and trust call for you. You can ask him about what is contingent on passing the R/S yourself. He can't tell you specifics that would be considered inside info, but he makes it very easy to connect the dots and I am not comfortable talking about it on this forum because I don't want to say something that I easily inferred, but he didn't come out and actually say.
I spoke to Phil last night. It is very important we pass the R/S. They are not concerned about the increase in AS and preferreds. If you are not comfortable voting for that than vote no. If they were able, they would even consider removing that. I have only posted a couple of times and even that was at the request of a friend, but this is very important. I am not asking you to just take my advice, I am asking you to talk directly to Phil yourself. He has given me permission to give out his personal contact information. I do not have a pm here because I never planned on posting, but you can pm buckeye 18 and he will give you the contact info. There is only so much that they can press release at this point, but Phil is willing to speak directly to you. If you own substantial shares or are influential on this board, you owe it to the other shareholders and the people who follow you and most importantly yourself to speak directly to the CFO before making a vote or influencing others to vote a certain way. If you already voted and after your conversation with Phil you decide you want to change your vote you can. It is very important to understand that management is on your side. Look at their comp packages! It is all based on increasing the share price for them to make big $! I will make a similar post this evening for the afternoon crowd and that will probably be it.
I'm talking about the 15% we are waiting to hear about. Hopefully they are in the process of restructuring that.
They would need to clear the toxic debt before they up listed because the institutional investors wouldn't invest with them if it's on their balance sheet and the traditional lenders wouldn't lend to them with it on their balance sheet. The last time they tried to up list they were going to pay off the bad debt with the money they raised, next time they try to uplist I am not sure they will try to raise $ at the same time because they can't afford to take the risk that it fails again. Plus they will not have that many shares to offer sense they are only trying to increase the AS to 350 million and that includes preferreds.
I agree with you for the most part. If you re-read my post, I said they need to get rid of the toxic debt on their balance sheet and then uplist to the NASDAQ and then get back to expanding through aquisitions in that order. Where I disagree with you at is where you think they should take their time doing this. I am not advocating do it with reckless abandon, but I am saying time and speed are important in this situation. I read in another one of your post that you have run your own business for 21 years and I have no doubt that you have been very successful doing that. IMO running a small business takes a different mind set than running this company. Making sure your profitable before you grow and keeping debt to a minimum makes a ton of sense running a small business, but I am guessing you are not trying to become a world leader with your company, inside of a new and explosive sector like ECIG is. Sure, there will be more risk, but if they are successful, there will be much higher return. I don't think this management team came together with a vision other than being a dominant player in this space. If a r/s can get them to the NASDAQ quicker than IMO it makes sense. If it is being used for anything other than that, than it doesn't make sense IMO. I believe they will lay out their strategy when they feel the time is right, which is hopefully sooner than later. At that point investors will have a lot better understanding of the direction of the company and can decide for themselves if this is a stock they want to hold. Also, to answer your other questions, I did say in my first post that I own the stock and obviously I am not associated with the management team because if I was I would not be posting on this board.
The reason that I believe they need to get to the NASDAQ ASAP is to continue on their strategy to be a market leader in this sector, and time is of the essence. If they can clear their balance sheet of the toxic debt ( which I believe they are doing) and get on a major exchange they will have access to much more favorable lending opportunities, which they can then go back out and start acquiring more companies. There is a small window of opportunity here to become a market leader ( my guess is 2-3 years) and you need to do it by growing both organically and through acquisitions. You can't do it through growing organically alone. I promise you this, management has a much, much larger vision of where they want to take this company than most of the people on this board do. They can't afford to wait a year or two to jump up to the NASDAQ if they want to be that company that I know they envision themselves being. I think people on this board understand the importance of the lending side, but I don't think a lot of people understand the importance of doing this sooner rather than later. Obviously you can't do things recklessly for the sake of speed, but acting sooner than later is very important if you are thinking BIG, which I believe the management is. I just don't know how many people on this board are.
If a company postpones it's uplisting the night before it is supposed to uplist almost 99% of the time it is because they couldn't raise the $ they were trying to raise. In this situation ECIG was trying to raise $150 million and if they couldn't raise a certain percentage of that (I think it is around 80-85%) they will be forced to pull the uplisting. You can't put in the prospectus that you are going to raise x amount and then only end up raising half of that. Who's fault is that then? The majority of the blame needs to be on the investment banks that are doing the uplisting. It is their job to go out and talk to their clients and get an indication of interest of how much the company can raise. That is part of why the companies pay these investment banks such hefty fees. In this case, I would assume that the investment banks probably told ECIG that they could comfortably raise $150 million and it obviously didn't happen. Now if ECIG wanted to raise more than what the bankers were telling them they could, the blame goes on ECIG. Usually the company listens to the bankers. I will tell you with great confidence that big tobacco was not behind this and the company itself was not trying to scam people.
I want to let you guys in on a secret. Most likely, your votes will not matter. I used to work in investment banking and I have a pretty good idea how management of this caliber works. This was never supposed to be a penny stock and I can promise you that you are not the shareholders they are concerned about. Who do you think was buying up the majority of the 200 million or so new shares that were released. It wasn't the penny stock traders. It was most likely someone they are very connected with. The good news is management is on your side and their priorities are the same as yours. You can check this by looking at insider trading and their comp packages. Insiders haven't sold any shares and you can verify this by checking a bloomberg terminal.
They will most likely get their pr's out on the final debt situation when it is all done with. If it happens in the middle of the week they might wait until the next Monday. Good news is better to be put out at the beginning of the week for momentum purposes. I own the stock and have been following it for quite some time. This is the first I have ever posted something and will probably not post much more, but I will post a few things that I have learned from my past experience in investment banking that might help or shed some light on a few things. One thing I will post is why they most likely had to postpone their uplisting the night before and why it is important for them to get to a major exchange ASAP.