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AZ, Thanks for all sharing all of your knowledge and DAD. Greatly appreciated.
I think the confusion, at least for me on this answer is, if Safe Harbor assets are protected outside of or before bankruptcy and the whole tranche payout matrix was part of the approved POR 7 (bankruptcy) then why should the distribution of safe harbor assets have anything at all to do with the payout matrix or ending of the bankruptcy?
Appreciate all your input LG and this by no means is meant with any disrespect. I'm just trying to understand what is going on and feel mostly lost on all this stuff. But this seems pretty straightforward and I've always wondered about this.
If the FDIC couldn't seize Holding Company assets, how then can the FDIC maximize their value? .....when the assets shouldn't even be with the FDIC?
Thanks but it is that difficult for me.
I'll go back to lurking.
I didn't get that quote from an article. It was from a legal document, which is impossible for me to comprehend and why i wrote that as a question. And it plainly states the "Escrow" balance is $57x,xxx,xxx.
Sorry but I don't get how that has nothing to do with Escrow when it reads Citi is the Escrow agent and the Escrow agent will be dispersing $. Can you please enlighten me?
What is this about? Why didn't anyone else post this from this document.
WHEREAS, Escrow Account balance as of date hereof is $578,336,434.79
Does this answer the question everyone has been asking for years. We have a little more than half a billion coming to us?
Unless I'm reading it wrong, all but one of the Trust Preferred Securities and Debentures are either JP Morgan or Chase. The one that's not is Chicago National Bank. How can these relate to any of the trusts associated with us?
Not expecting to get rich....only to see a decent return. Which after roughly 10 years will need to be @3X my investment..,that's all I'm hoping for.
Great points... exactly why I'm still here too. But, I'm holding steady.....not selling but no new shares for me either. If anywhere close to what is predicted comes back I'll be more than satisfied with my investment.
From what I've seen and read the only facts of parties involved in the DB settlement we're DB, FDIC, and JPM. It's only conjecture that means now that's settled, there will be massive assets distributed to equity. Nothing saying there is and nothing saying there isn't. All signs indicate there should be, but nothing stating there actually is.
OK....not good enough if that's your justification for staying here for 9 years. Kosturos is our trustee. I have to believe some of that would be fees for his and his staff's services. But, even ignoring that and assuming 100‰ of it is based on asset management, at 1% $2 mi/year means they are managing a whopping $200 mil. Or only $100 mil at 2%. After splitting among all parties may not be enough for a steak dinner.
I'm not saying I don't think there are no safe harbored assets, I'm just saying A&M getting $2 mil/ year is no where near proof of significant assets.
Everyone keeps talking about safe harbor assets as if there is zero doubt there are assets in safe harbor
It certainly appears that way based on Rosen's own words to THJMW as LG routinely points out. BUT, is there documented proof of safe harbor assets that belong to those holding Escrow markers and/or WMIH share owners? I'd like to see some filed documented proof positive all the trusts or whatever other vehicle is holding our assets truly belongs to us. Has anyone been able to find 100% without any doubt, proof?
From what I've gathered every single event with this whole saga can be viewed positively or negatively. We've all been left in the dark purposely not knowing if there a pot of gold or pot of s#!t waiting for us when they finally decide to open the door.
The whole 3.1 a. Scrivener's error is a perfect example.,...was no asset list provided because JPM didn't get any assets? Or, was it because all assets (whole bank transfer) were given to JPM.
I've tended to agree with all positive posters here, and still do. But at this point it is all opinion and nothing is for sure.
Absolutely, your right. I only mention this because I've only seen the positive theory posted here. Guess we'll know for sure which theory is correct on Jan 1.
Just a thought about a deal having to be signed by year's end in order for "former" board members shares to vest.......why in the hell would the existing board members try to get something done by EOY just so the formers can be paid? I mean they wait til Jan and then that's $ that doesn't have to be paid. Certainly a greedy, underhanded thing to do but seems to be part for the course here.
Or,.....maybe those guys stepped down because they saw no future with it?
Appears that if C happens then we we're all wrong and BK Shadow was right. We already got everything we're getting.
Youre right, great point....but how is that possible?, Legal?, Is our government that corrupt to facilitate "legal theft"? (as BK Shawdow puts it). J If so, will it ultimately be made right? Or, was this really a fair, legitimate transaction, where WMB was in such bad shape that JPM had to be paid to take on WMB's operations, which as a result have benefited by the Billions?
So, technically JPM only paid $1.2 B for substantially all WMB banking operations but were not required to take on all thier liabilities? Which included the $20B loan from WMI?
Also. With the emphasis on the importance of the difference between WMB and WMI, who is paying A&M? Are they being paid from the LT?, WMB?, safe harbor assets?, WMIH?, WMRRC, WXYZ?, Or some other Wsomething?.
It would seem to me if they are managing billions, the billions would be held by the entity paying them.
I believe I read somewhere A&M is the Trustee's (Kosturos) company.
What would be more telling is to know what percentage of each funds overall Holdings is in WMIH. 3 to 5 million shares is a hell of a lot to us but for them it could be a very small percentage of their overall investments
The way I read that is while there is $151 billion claim, FDIC only has $105 mil available to pay.
Am I wrong?
Wow, had no idea you were on the WMIH Board Of Directors.
There are a lot of differing opinions on this board and I have no clue what the ultimate outcome will be. I can only hope the government can't just seize one businesses total assets and then allow another business to "purchase" those assets for a measly 8% (1.9/24) at best or 6/10% (1.9/300) at worst. Regardless of whatever the resulting value between $24 billion to $300 billion is, I have to believe our legal system, as flawed as it may be, would not allow a theft of that magnitude to occur.
Remember, it's always darkest before the dawn.
I hate to be negative on this point because I really want there to be tens of billions coming back. But I just did the math...it's pretty easy math too.... $2 mil is 1% of $200 mil...according to your estimates of 1-5%, $200 mil is best case scenario for what A&M is managing. No where close to even 1 billion. Am I wrong?
Guess the key word there is "3rd party" confirming JPM does not own the WAMU mortgage portfolio, they are simply servicing the loans
What % of the interest does the owner of the mortgage receive? Which I assume now is either escrow marker holders or owners of WMIH?
Amen....Many pro escrow posters make very valid arguments for a substantial return. However, any poster claiming preferred shares will see 90 times face value loses all credibility.
Ha..sorry but that is beyond ridiculous. If I'm understanding your post.....Do you expect anyone to believe that just 10 P shares will turn into $900K?
. I think you meant ($10BX 25%)/1.2B = $2.083.
Thanks!
It's been posted many times here that for every $10B returning would equal $1000 for each P share and $25 for every K share. But I don't recall seeing what $10B would equal per Q share. Anyone know? Sorry if I missed it.
Should be easy to figure out if someone has an idea of the going rate for managing billions. If my financial advisor makes $1000 off me annually and we know they generally earn around 1%, then it's pretty clear I have $100k.
Anyone have any idea what these big money managers like A&M's rates might be?
$24,000,000,000 X .0001= $2,400,000
If one hundredth? of a percent is the going rate to manage that much dough then Bob's $32 - $8 = $24 is a pretty dang close? Not my opinion but rather my question. Anyone?
Can you post contents of link...no access to BP.
Thank you LG....glad to know there will be an end to this at some point one way or another. But we certainly hope it is not the other.
Thanks to LG, AZ, LP, and others who have provided their expert? opinions and interpretation of the many facts and filings presented over the years. I have found all of your posts very encouraging and educational at least as much as I could understand. So please don't take this question as negative in any way. Through this saga there have been many predictions of significant events occuring on specific dates only to see those dates come and go with nothing of value occuring or even any official light shed on our situation as equity escrow holders and WMIH investors in terms of financial impact......after all these years it's still all opinion and speculation.
My question is if the DB issue is approved and still nothing positive for us like cash to escrows or WMHI stock for value is "revealed" and immenent, will there be more predictions and another new date we will be told to look forward to? Will there ever be a point when these predictions continue to not come true will you finally say it's over, we were wrong? When will you say this is it, if it doesn't happen now it wont?
Does that number have any relevance to JPMs $1.8 Billon purchase price. As the previous poster noted that JPM owns most of the trusts.....does the DB settlement simply allow JPM to reap all the benefits and once again leave the truck owners holding the empty bag.
What's the going rate for managing assets? don't retail investors pay between half to 1% I would imagine at this level the rate would be much much lower than that
This Theory makes the most sense of anything I've read on this board
Speaking of the failed acquisition....Has it been discussed here if the acquisition failure was due to the fact that the entire BK process had not been finalized as our BOD had expected so WMIH did not have the resources to make the acquisition so the target backed out. And, currently there has not yet been an acquisition because the BOD is still waiting on the process to be finalized and all disbursements to occur so that they have maximum assets available.
Sorry if this has been discussed or so obvious it's not worth discussion.
Sorry but the article LG linked reads the "US Treasury" was raising $173 Bill......not JPM.
"For What?" Is a great question.
I feel like I'm missing something or just need help understanding how the assumption is made that issuance of bonds to raise capital by these other financial institutions especially WF and DB will be used to pay our escrow markers. Is this just hope? Or, is there other information that leads you to this assumption?
Has anyone thought about how every other time there has been talk of something good happening at a major event (court date or shareholders meeting) the share price has always spiked leading up to the event. The anemic rise in price the last week is hardly a spike. Could that indicate a different outcome than the usual disappointment with this event on June 1?
Makes perfect sense but what I don't get is how Preferreds are factored into that $15 bil number? If there were 1.7 billion common shares at 8.50 /share what price would that have put P's and K's at and wouldn't that have been added to the total had they sold?