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True, we just have no idea if there is anything left or not.
Yet if you own escrow markers that is exactly what you did...signed without knowing what was coming in.
You would certainly think so....that is IF all the stuff posted here on this board is true...
You forgt about the other chunk of change JPM got as part of the settlement. Cant remember the amount but it was several hundred million. Effectively putting their cost around $600 million give or take 100 or so.
Great question!
Actually after another read...its clear CB is post is mocking some others
I gotta agree with you HM...makes no sense. Paraphrased: "The fact that there is no proof IS the proof"????
What?
Thanks for this info. Does anything else need to completed, closed, finalized, done, for the distributions to start?
Appreciate your opinion.
Up untill this fall I've been 50/50 back and forth on my opinion whether or not there some sort of escrow value. many posters have laid out very valid arguements on both sides. A few months ago I really began to feel that it probably wasnt going to happen.... But still about 5% hopeful there might be something there.....just enough hope to keep checking in here. There has to be a point that I come to the realization that I'm 100% confident the COOP shares we already have is all there is. I'm also giving it to the end of this month.
I must be missing something. Had Nate not shown up to expose insider trading, MW's 1,000,000 common shares would have not conerted to WMIH shares and he would not have had a seat on the board. He, like all of us, would gave been long gone. Completely cancelled out.
Damn...just noticed the drawing date on this lottery ticket I've been checking each week was in 2012.....
At least it's been entertaining.
Adios.
I didnt think so...just my feeble attempt at humor.
Sorry, I meant class 19....my point was, are we sure they had a choice? And even if they did, are we sure their claim would have been paid in class 18, or would it have been denied..so the "choice" to go to class 19 was a "might as well, just in case..." Kind of move.
Look, there is so much misinformation, innuendos, assumptions, opinions, and misleading information posted here it's impossible to know what is true..
I'm just trying to look at all possibilities and not take opinion as a fact. This particular issue everyone seems to accept the the UW's chose 19 over the certainty of some payment in 18....im questioning if that is really a fact.
I still dont know that they "chose" to be moved to class 18. That was probably where they were put....no choice.
This an opinion...or more like an assumption of what really might have happened. I bet that meeting in judges chambers was to notify Sussman of the gravety of the situation with JPM and what might happen to our financial system if the outcome went as we beleive it should have gone. JPM needed WAMU in order to survive, we all know that. Had Sussman done what he could have done, we'd have been paid but it would have been financial Armageddon, when JPM went under too. I guess you can say our sacrifice saved the country...and maybe the world. So yeah. Sussman probably sold us out. All IMO
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I agree and remember that very well. It all seemed crazy to hire/pay for an examiner to determine if a plan is fair and equitable without giving the examiner access to all information. It does lead one to believe there is more to this than what has been shown.....but even now, where is it if it exists...we should know by now.
Ugh. Spell check sucks...meant bbhub
Sorry. This was from link shared by bbbub, not Bob.
Looks lije the link Bob posted is correct...updated on 12/6/19...however the "egg" (as some are calling it)....the over $20B settlement is THE GSA....nothing new here. And what we got was our shares of Coop...and that is all there ever will be...period..imo.
From link Bob posted..direct from FDIC, updated 12/6/19....no new info.
On the day after WAMU failed, its holding company, Washington Mutual Inc. ("WMI"), filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection in the United States Bankruptcy Court for the District of Delaware (assigned to Judge Mary F. Walrath). Thereafter, WMI, JPMC, the FDIC in its Corporate capacity (“FDIC-C”), and the Receiver became involved in several lawsuits contesting the ownership of over $20 billion in assets.
The parties reached a settlement in the WMI bankruptcy proceeding that was approved by the FDIC's Board of Directors on May 20, 2010, and WMI filed a plan of reorganization incorporating the terms of the settlement ("WMI Bankruptcy Settlement"). Several parties objected to WMI's proposed plan, and in particular, WMI's proposal to release its claims against JPMC, FDIC-C, and the Receiver. At the request of WMI's equity holders, the Bankruptcy Court appointed an Examiner to thoroughly investigate WMI's claims against JPMC, FDIC-C, and the Receiver, and to determine whether the proposed settlement (which would release these claims) was fair and equitable to WMI. The Examiner found that the WMI Bankruptcy Settlement was a fair resolution.
Thanks AZ...guess I'm looking on the wrong FDIC site. It was last updated 9/25/17.
The only settlement it references is between JPM and DB.
It also has this:
"The Receiver anticipates that it will make a final distribution at a later date. It is unlikely that the Receiver will have sufficient funds to distribute to holders of receivership certificates issued to WAMU subordinate note holders or equity holders."
I got this here:
https://web.archive.org/web/20171012140036/https://www.fdic.gov/bank/individual/failed/wamu-settlement.html
Is there a different FDIC site I should be going to to get more updated info?
AZ..can you provide context around this statement...
and NOW ?, (updated in December) the FDIC site states that the GSA allowed the parties to reach a settlement contesting the ownership of over $20 billion in assets” ...
If there were over $20 Billion in assets being contested and the parties reached a settlement, there should be details of the settlement. Who got what?.....did I miss this discussion back in December when this happened? Seems like a really big deal that should have not gone unnoticed.....weird that your post here is the first I've heard about it.
Anyone else not know about this?
Sounds great but what are the details of the settlement of the $20 B? Who got what?
Hope your right...I have to be pessimistic for my own sanity.
Not if they are like this last one. If I understand the conversion correctly 100,000 escrow markers got about 7 COOP shares....roughly $100. Even MW with his million shares only got about $1000. Nobody is getting rich with distributions like this.
Hate it but I think you're right.
LG, you make great points and I really want to believe you are right. I hope you are. I think my pessimism is more caution. Without hard, documented proof there is $x amount coming to us, I cant be confident in a positive outcome.
And they (we) are all SOL as a large windfall goes...imo. They (all the big players) made their money trading this stock over the past 12 years.
5) So, all the big players: Bonderman et. al., Grayken et. al., Savitz et. al., Tepper et. al., the other SNHs (Aurelius, Owl Creek, Centerbridge), and all the other Hedge Funds, and of course currently the Underwriters are all Class 19 Equity Escrow Marker Holders.
If there were funds to be distributed outside of the BK, what now could be holding it up. Logically, it makes sense there should be $ in Trusts or Safe harbor. Lots of convincing arguments to support this theory. But realistically, I don't beleive there are. I think our F&R was to survive with a share of the new co WMIH, now COOP. Considering the alternative was getting nothing, that could be considered fair and reasonable by some.
What official FDIC documents back up this opinion? I hope this is the case and it seems like it should be the true but Ive never seen anything in the record that supports this theory.
Weren't the "hedgies" the ones who were busted for colorable insider trading?....Seems as if your saying they were negotiating with themselves for a settlement. On one hand we are told about how they got busted which allowed us to participate and then now we hear about how we are riding the coattails of the same Hedgeies who also own something around 85% of the escrow markers anyway. It seems to me a lot of misdirected info is being peddled here. Did they really fight so hard and risk so much to keep from losing just an additional 15% if they were set to get the lions share in a POR 6 or POR 7? Something just doesn't add up.
Makes sense and,seems logical but why the secrecy? Why no documentation of holding company assets?
The facts are that documents have stated JPMC ACQUIRED the WHOLE Bank and there are no documents the have been presented to show there are any Safe Harbor or trust assets coming back much less any indication of how much. Also, the fact that all those who are "in the know" say there is nothing else.
Short of that, proving there is nothing else for our preferred and/or common shares is impossible, its all speculation and opinion on both sides.
IMO....facts point to nothing else. But its been argued that is how "they" want it to appear? So who the hell knows....im paying attention but not holding my breath.
Funny how the BK suddenly was ripe to finally close out after almost 12 long years...and at the exact same time the money ran out.....well almost....except for the pocket change charity donation. They accomplished 12 years and $1 Billion worth of complex legal work that just so happened to wrap up as the $ ran out?....yeah right. That sort of timing doesn't happen by accident.
Par for the course...just what we thought.
Not a statement, but a question.....is it possible?????????
Exactly my point. No one can, nor should they trust some profile on a message board.
Anyone know if there is a call in number to listen on to the hearing?
Oh I can still be convinced otherwise...
So much can be misinterpreted here....i just recently started posting my opinions after years of only reading others opinions. I would love nothing more than to be proven wrong...just my interpretation of all that's been presented now leads me to a negative resolution being more likely than a positive one.
Agree.