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Doesnt he have until the 31st to file ? once he files then the judge will schedule the hearing before EOY. ?
I'm sure your post is all true as of today and go fund me for mental health may be needed......if everyone is still here talking about HLCE 1 year AFTER the BK is CLOSED. Until then HLCE is still possible
Thanks LG..,,I certainly am not trying to do that. Just trying to reconcile the different "facts" I've read on this board.. what you're presenting makes the most sense as I still have a hard time believing that our justice system is really actually that corrupt
I thought 3.2 was omitted from por 7 as a scrivener's error?
I'm sure the hedge funds know when and goe much. In the meantime they are making a killing trading COOP all the way to payday. Best of both worlds. When this money train runs out they get paid too.
LOL....... all those "profits" who predicted $8 per share were right! They just didn't tell us it would be after a conversion dilution AND a 12 for 1 reverse split.
I could be wrong but I undersood it a little different. Didnt they have 2 claims. The first denied so all they have left is the class 19 claim. Are we positive they are included in class 19 only by their choice?
Its more likely that Warren Buffet will knock on our door to personally give each of us $1 mil.....before any of these numbers come true. ....aint gonna happen.
It appears to me she is arguing against a revised after approved POR 7 not the original approved POR 7
I could be wrong but I'm reading that as Nationstar Mortgage, LLC is BOTH a Delaware Limited Liability Corp. AND a wholey owned subsidiary of Mr. Cooper.....again just offering up my opinion as a possibility that is what was meant.
Isnt "an indirectly held, wholly owned subsidiary" just describing Nationstar Mortgage???
You did for sure. I was backing you up.
Sorry. Not buying that accredited investors with the same original holdings....P, K, Q...now with escrow markers, are already getting paid when non-accredited investors are not.
Only advantage accredited investors have is access to certain investment opps on the front end. Returns are identical for non- accredited and accredited in the same investments.
If it's escrow money then escrow should get the interest on any loans.....or at least a % of it. Loaning money that is not yours and not compensating the rightful owner surely is not legal.
If there is anything there All they have to do is pay her off....settle.... and it gets dropped. Just hope she has more integrity than to allow that to happen.
If they do settle wouldnt it just be with Alice since she filed only on her behalf.... Basically wouldn't a settlement amount to paying her off which could still allow them to give the rest of us the shaft.??
Not gonna argue with you as I should have said "I understand" instead of "i know". I'll be the first to admit ive been wrong before and I'll be wrong again.
So, I am certainly not confident of any position and hopeful you, LG and many others are correct. Although many disagree with the details of how, most believe a significant return is coming and I really hope y'all are right.
What is interesting are the various contradicting opinions of many here who all seem to believe with 100% certainty their opinion is the correct one. Can't wait to see who is right.
Oh I dont know crap.
Except this.....
APR was changed to allow for a 75/25 split for WMI preferred and common shareholders in the banckrupcy reorg to what we now know as COOP, which already happened. Whether it remains for any returning assets or not is irrelevant to me.
I also know that what you are saying violates both APR and the exception that was agreed to and voted on leading to the 75/25 split.
That is all I claim to know
AZ said.
"The original WMI Issued Capital Trust...its Debtentures....the earnings of the Debtentures @ 5.375%...as well as the WMI now COOP common shares.....All belong to Eli's class 22 (WAMPQ)"
IF that were true it would be preferential treatment because P, K, and TPS would all be skipped in the waterfall. No way that could happen.
Sorry AZ, know what you own, right?. I know I "owned" P, K, and Q...and since I sifned timely releases and now have escrow tracking markers that one of three things will happen.
1. Nothing left except what is reported in the LTI
2. There are funds in safe Harbor, bankruptcy remote, Trusts, or any other thing you want to call it and its all coming back to old K, P, and TPS until face value is satisfied, and the rest goes to old Q, common share holders
3. Remaining assets are split 75/25 and could be issued as cash or new coop shares.
I hope #1 doesnt happen but that will likely be the outcome and im good with #2 or #3 either way.
Dont see how that is possible. If there is no special 75/25 applied to this and it is the standard APR, then class 22 wont see anything until class 19 receives face value. So Ps and Ks must first receive their money before Qs get a dime under APR....is that not correct?
I think its quite obvious now that it was a misunderstanding of a change in value due to pps fluctuations.
IDK....its just strange more people arent seeing it as well.
I hope he is right and there will be $ added BUT....The market value change today in my account when I looked showed +0.42% which could have easily been 0.44% earlier. Could have easily been misunderstood as addion of shares???
You mention the ABS monthly distributions....where are they distributed to and how are they tracked? They are not being distributed to our accounts where our tracking markers reside, so wondering where they are? Not doubting you but you seem to be the only one that has visibility into this?
Lot of talk about all the hedge funds invested here and how we are riding their coat tails. "Surely they must know something". But, I wonder what is typical for % held by institutions for stocks in this same category? Is 81% or now 88% high, normal, or maybe its low if NSM was 98%??
Just,wondering if we are placing to much emphasis on the number of hedgies involved since they likely dominate virtually every stock.
I thought that response was from FDIC. Not A&M?
Has anyone tried contacting A&M/Kosturos for insight as to what they are managing and what may be behind the curtain?
I agree. That made no sense. But I have to disagree with the opinion that WMI saw the seizure coming. Who would put $4 bil is a lot of dough to put into a bank you know is about to be seized.
I agree that would be fraudulent.....but hasnt this whole ordeal been fraudulent from day 1? I mean it appears everything about this siezure and bankruptcy has included illegal and corrupt activity from multiple organizations which seems impossible to actually happen but yet here we are. I just think its an interesting coincidence the 30B was brought up in court as WMI assets, and then JPM comes out saying they got a surprize in the ruble and the numbers were exactly the same.
Evidently the reason he was shot down from bringing that up again is because it had already been given to JPM. Funny how they "found" the exact same amount "in the rubble" of WAMU. To find something inherently means it was once lost or hidden. I hope im wrong but in this case I'm afraid that 30B is our 'hidden" assets. 1st step to hide something is to remove it from its original location. schedule 3.1A ......scrivenors error. Its all become clear.
Can both AZ and LG be right? They both present very valid points and to me, mostly beyond my comprehension. They both seem to have contradicting beliefs but do predent significant recoveries. Just wondering if the differing opinions of how we get there could both be correct?
All positive posters here keep hope alive by posting the fact that we are riding the coatais of 200 some odd big hedge funds. That they are also awaiting big payouts like us. Did it ever occur to anyone that the big hedgies may be loving the fact this is still unresolved? Maybe they are buying and selling this day after day making money hand over fist because they know the timing and events that are driving the share price. I think insider trading is inherent with what they do and as long as they follow "the club rules" regulators simply overlook it. Maybe that's where the goldmine is. 10 years of buying and selling this stock that they have an inside track on timing of certain events. Maybe they are not lawyering up to resolve this because they know there will be no big
recovery event, only the opportunity to trade their way to riches day after day.
The F&R promised should not require one to "average down". I undetstand F&R is relative based on what was invested and perhaps Sussmans or. MWs idea of F&R was simply getting shares in New Co. But most of us dont feel the same.
As far as my profile being relatively new so to speak.....I first purchased in 2010., I was trolling Yahoo before I started trolling iHub. Only created an account when I finally decided to post a comment. I read the board almost daily in an attempt to learn but rarely comment because I don't feel like i know enough to contribute.
From what I see the 151 billion claim is a deposit claim that has already been paid.
No BB. I have all three escrow markers (P, K, and Q). I'm not totally writing this off that would be impossible...just lowered my expectations significantly...I mean when are the constant delays enough?...also found this in my searching which I'm sure has been posted but this shows $14 bill still left in the unpaid claims at FDIC WMI receivership Balance Sheet. But does a claim really mean that is approved claim still to be distributed?
Link is much easier to read.
https://closedbanks.fdic.gov/drrip/Ext/BalDetails/
WASHINGTON MUTUAL BANK - Receivership Balance Sheet Summary
(Unaudited)
Fund Code: 10015
Failure Date: 9/25/2008
For Period Ending September 30, 2018
(in $000's)AssetsCurrent BalanceCash and Investments$ 144,353Due from FDIC Corp and Receivables0Assets in Liquidation0Estimated Loss on Assets in Liquidation (1)0 Total Assets144,353LiabilitiesCurrent BalanceAdministrative Liabilities$ 2,641FDIC Subrogated Deposit Claim 0Uninsured Deposit Claims0Other Claimant Liabilities14,809,420Unproven Claims637Total Liabilities (2)14,812,698Net Worth (Deficit)(14,668,345) Total Liabilities and Net Worth144,353
Claims Detail Summary
(Unaudited)
Proven Deposit ClaimsClaim Balance%FDIC Subrogated Claim$ 151,150,664100 % Uninsured Depositors00 %SubTotal - Proven Deposit Claims$ 151,150,664100 %Less: Dividends Paid to Date151,150,664100 % Total Unpaid Deposit Claims$ 00 %Other ClaimantsClaim Balance%General Creditor$ 3,026,17918 %Senior Debt Holders6,077,55736 %Subordinated Debt Holders7,723,05246 %SubTotal - Other Claimants$ 16,826,788100 %Less: Dividends Paid to Date2,017,36812 % Total Unpaid Other Claimants$ 14,809,42088 %
This is what I get when I Google FDIC and WMI assets. From the FDIC website. Nothing to see here...time to move on. This was most enlightening.at the bottom
"The Receiver anticipates that it will make a final distribution at a later date. It is unlikely that the Receiver will have sufficient funds to distribute to holders of receivership certificates issued to WAMU subordinate note holders or equity"
And here's the link for those who always insist on a link.
https://www.fdic.gov/bank/individual/failed/wamu-settlement.html
Status of Washington Mutual Bank Receivership
On September 25, 2008, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation was appointed the Receiver (“Receiver”) of Washington Mutual Bank ("WAMU"). The Receiver transferred substantially all WAMU's assets and liabilities to JPMorgan Chase Bank, N.A. ("JPMC") pursuant to a Purchase and Assumption Agreement dated September 25, 2008 - PDF ("P&A Agreement"). Since WAMU failed, the Receiver has been a party to a number of major litigation matters.
Bankruptcy Litigation
On the day after WAMU failed, its holding company, Washington Mutual Inc. ("WMI"), filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection in the United States Bankruptcy Court for the District of Delaware (assigned to Judge Mary F. Walrath). Thereafter, WMI, JPMC, the FDIC in its Corporate capacity (“FDIC-C”), and the Receiver became involved in several lawsuits contesting the ownership of over $20 billion in assets.
The parties reached a settlement in the WMI bankruptcy proceeding that was approved by the FDIC's Board of Directors on May 20, 2010, and WMI filed a plan of reorganization incorporating the terms of the settlement ("WMI Bankruptcy Settlement"). Several parties objected to WMI's proposed plan, and in particular, WMI's proposal to release its claims against JPMC, FDIC-C, and the Receiver. At the request of WMI's equity holders, the Bankruptcy Court appointed an Examiner to thoroughly investigate WMI's claims against JPMC, FDIC-C, and the Receiver, and to determine whether the proposed settlement (which would release these claims) was fair and equitable to WMI. The Examiner found that the WMI Bankruptcy Settlement was a fair resolution.
On February 24, 2012, the Bankruptcy Court entered an order confirming the seventh amended plan - PDF proposed by WMI and its co-debtor WMI Investment Corp (the "Plan"). The WMI Bankruptcy Settlement - PDF, as amended from time to time, remains integral to and incorporated in the Plan. The Plan and Settlement became effective on March 19, 2012. The Receiver received $843.9 million pursuant to the terms of the WMI Bankruptcy Settlement.
Litigation filed by DBNTC and JPMC and Settlement
Soon after WAMU failed, Deutsche Bank National Trust Co. (“DBNTC”) sued the Receiver and JPMC, claiming $6 billion to $10 billion in damages arising out of WAMU's alleged breach of representations and warranties made in connection with mortgages sold to securitized trusts. (Amended Complaint - PDF.) In June 2015, the United States District Court for the District of Columbia issued a partial summary judgment decision finding that the Receiver retained liability for DBNTC’s claims to the extent that such claims were not reflected at a stated book value in the financial accounting records of WAMU as of the failure date. (Amended Memorandum Opinion - PDF.) The Receiver sought appellate review of the decision in the United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit.
Also, JPMC filed lawsuits and cross-claims seeking indemnification against the Receiver and FDIC-C (Indemnification lawsuit - PDF) and submitted over 100 notices of potential indemnity claims. (Notices can be found at Group 1: JPMorgan Chase Notices relating to Washington Mutual Whole Bank P&A - PDF in the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) Service Center Reading Room and, JPMorgan Chase Notices relating to Washington Mutual Bank Whole Bank P&A at, Group 2: JPMorgan Chase Notices relating to Washington Mutual Whole Bank P&A).
On August 19, 2016, the FDIC Board of Directors approved a settlement among the Receiver, FDIC-C, DBNTC, and JPMC, to settle the lawsuit filed by DBNTC, the Indemnification lawsuit filed by JPMC and all claims for indemnification made by JPMC against the Receiver, including two other lawsuits disputing JPMC’s responsibility for tax liabilities of the failed WAMU (“DBNTC-JPMC-FDIC Settlement”). Under its terms, the FDIC-JPMC-DBNTC settlement became effective only if DBNTC obtained court approval of the settlement. On June 30, 2017, the Superior Court of Orange County, California entered an order approving the settlement, and that order became final and unappealable on September 5, 2017. Under the settlement agreement, in exchange for releases from JPMC and DBNTC, the Receiver paid JPMC $645 million and issued DBNTC an allowed unsecured receivership claim of $3,006,929,600 on September 8, 2017. The DBNTC-JPMC-FDIC Settlement agreement can be found at this link: DBNTC-JPMC-FDIC Settlement agreement - PDF.
As a result of the settlement, the parties dismissed certain lawsuits pending in the district court and an appeal pending in the court of appeals. These lawsuits had been stayed while DBNTC obtained approval of the settlement by the California state court.
Interim Dividend Distribution
As of June 30, 2017, the Receiver had approximately $2.76 billion to distribute to holders of claims allowed by the receivership, according to the priorities established in 12 U.S.C. § 1821, senior unsecured claims of the receivership, including the claims of DBNTC, general trade creditors, and the WAMU senior bondholders. This distribution represented approximately 95% of the receivership’s remaining total current assets. The allowed senior unsecured creditors shared equally (on a pro rata basis) in this distribution. The remaining funds in the receivership are expected to be sufficient to cover future expected and potential losses and expenses.
The settlement did not resolve certain claims by the Receiver against JPMC, including the Receiver’s claims against JPMC relating to its alleged participation with other banks in manipulating certain benchmark rates and markets (LIBOR, interest rate swaps, ISDAfix, treasury securities, credit default swaps, and foreign exchange rates). It also preserves all claims of the Receiver against other persons who caused losses to WAMU prior to its failure, including claims relating to restitution orders and all regulatory and supervisory claims of FDIC-C. The Receiver anticipates that it will make a final distribution at a later date. It is unlikely that the Receiver will have sufficient funds to distribute to holders of receivership certificates issued to WAMU subordinate note holders or equity holders.
I don't know....does "a claim" really mean that amount is ours. I don't even know if that is still there? Is it? Supposedly it was at one point but is it still?
I did learn something from all this. Never believe anything you read on a MB.
Years ago when we were all about to be rich on the next "big date" I told myself I would give this until September 2018 at supposedly the 10 year mark when the FDIC was supposed to have this all wrapped up. Here we are now pushing out again until March of 2019 with still no diffinitive resolution or documented proof of any significant return coming back to Escrows. The other major event (merger) everyone was waiting on has happened but with zero increase in our newco share value.
I have been positive for recovery and have bought into LG and AZ and other's predictions to a certain degree....except for those such as Ron claiming hundreds of billions would come back to us. That is just utter nonsense.
Now with all the delays and lack of "official" proof of any merit to the stuff being promoted and interpreted here, I'm beginning to think BK Shadow and the like were right all along. Not much I can do with my escrow shares except be reminded of this travesty every time I log into my account. I guess as long as they are there I'll continue to hope they turn into something but as far as thinking they probably will?...... Those days are over. Time to move on.