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Possibly but I don't think that claim would hold water....whose definition of F&R would the court base its judgement. .. The arguement could easily be made that we made up our own F&R not based on any concrete evidence or facts.
Do you consider everyone with an opposing view to yours as horrible people?
We find truth through opposing views.
I'm thankful for everyone that has posted their opinions here as I've been able to weigh both sides....it would be very unhealthy for everyone to share the same view.
Imo....we've already been given definitive answers but some people won't accept it.
What was WAMU trading at in 2006 or 2007 before the housing crisis in its heyday?....wasnt it around $40 per share? So even if the share price started there interest is not taking the value to $145 per share in just 11 years.
I hope your right and I'm wrong
Whats more beleivable.....a buch of message board professionals claiming UQ"s are getting $145 a peice or to think that hundeds of Billions will miraculously appear making us all instant millionaires? Or, the people who have been legally in charge of this bankruptcy.
Maybe $145 total
They know if anything is to return or not....if not, yes, I think they are OK with it because it is what it is....and like I said before.... they've already made their money trading up and down while most of us have been sitting on our shares afraid to trade from listening to board "experts" claim we're about to be paid every month for 12 years.
Sorry, but we've been duped.
Now, unlike others here I will say that I have been wrong on more than one occasion. Hopefully this is another one. But if I was a betting man, id bet against additional returns worth anything.
They've been playing this stock up and down from day 1....making millions...if I knew what was going on with this BK and owned the amount of shares like they do id been loving life the past 12 years. Wouldn't need the Escrow markers to be worth anything.
Yes. Gold. You are correct so I guess I'll be getting time back....which is pretty valuable.
I'm becoming more and more convinced the only thing coming after the 19th is the realization that nothing's coming back
Great questions....im wondering if your #1 ends up being the results, will people still be here months later, years later still claiming money is coming, coming up with seemingly valid reasons for the delay. My guess is some will continue claiming there is money coming as long as someone is here to listen.
Ive often wondered if the conflicting opinions are orchestrated.... Different people say big recoveries are coming but differ on how....but both have the same posting style....copy paste the same lists of things that supposedly support their opinions over and over, always ending with their own little clever quote......has always seemed a bit odd.
Everyone keeps saying it was a deposit but all documents indicate it was the PURCHASE price. No one has shown anything indicating it was only a partial payment.
$145? Why stop there? How about $275, or $350, hell how about $1000 per U? Sounds good to me and its just about as likely as $145.
That is correct but what was their other option....not sign and be left out of getting COOP shares. May not be much to us but I'm sure the big boyz have made millions on it.....the guy that introduced me to this thing went all in on all flavors when commons were at $0.02.... He has also done very well with the reorg...
My point is maybe us just staying in and being included in the WMI to COOP reorg was F&R.....at least it was to some.
Chapter 11 is a reorganization. Any assets...safe harbor, subs, etc, that remain after all creditors are paid will go back to the reorganized company (WMI now COOP) will they not? So, if that is true, then it would only be logical that we would either receive shares in COOP, or coop would receive influx of operating capital inceasing the share value, and/or COOP will inherit a number of subs......if, and only if, there are any remaining assets once the BK is CLOSED. I cant see any way that our escrow markers will see any cash or be tradeable......it was not a liquidation for us, it was a reorganization. AIMO
Is my opinion wrong?
I must have missed it...when, where, and how did Rosen mention 6000 new LT recipients?
The only scenario for "only" commons getting paid is if APR is in effect and preferreds have already received face value.
Hope your right.... Also part of my skepticism is the fact that they seized/stole the bank and there is no meaningful documentation that seems to hold anyone accountable for what is left on the bone to come our way. Like you said, they are still trying to steal it...weve signed releases, received our coop shares and F&R is open to interpretation....they can easily say that was it.
I certainly hope so....im just very skeptical
I don't know. Just seems more probable than money showing up in escrow cusips or a check in the mail.
I have learned a lot reading all these posts over the years and I realize my knowledge of law, bankruptcy, finance, stock market, etc doesnt hold a candle to others here.....however my prediction (based only on opinion from weighing all the other opinions and what little documented facts that have been provided) is that we already got what we're gettin'. Any hope for significant recovery is coming from the COOP shares we already have.....lets hope it takes off once the BK is officially closed......of course I hope I'm wrong. again, all IMO.
pretty clear....doesnt say it was a deposit, doesn't say anything about paying book value. All the hype and speculation here sounds right and it makes sense, logically, Escrow should have a big recovery......but the fact is there is zero documented proof that there will be more money coming to legacy share holders from JPM, FDIC, Safe Harbor, Trusts or any other entity. In fact, the documented proof says there is nothing else. I've been lurking on this board for years with only an occasional post here and there, but reading almost all of them. I've wanted so bad to believe everyone and that my investment in WAMU would payoff eventually. And now here we are, supposedly so close to the end and I am now convinced it's all been a waste of time. I guess I'll hold on to Coop with the hope that it will one day be worth a poop. Hope I'm wrong.
Hidden game is the reason I am becomming more and more cynical....the only thing we know for sure is we got "F&R" which is wide open to interpretation. Our interpretation is way different than those classes prior to 19 who think what we got was more than fair because in their minds we shouldnt have received squat. They think all those COOP shares we got should be theirs. People here think they know there are assets outside of this BK, any maybe there are. But we have no concrete proof or evidence of such and once the records are destroyed......"what assets? They never existed" (even if they did). And more importantly, no one can be held accountable any longer. It will be officially over and we can all go back to our day jobs, cause we'll have to.
Thats fine with me too......but what happens when we dont get squat and all records have been destroyed.
Agreed. Only reason to expedite destroying records is if you dont want others to find something in them, or you need the server space.... Obviously, its not the latter.....there is something they are trying to hide.
I dont get that. Isnt TPS part of Class 19 too.....so if there is money to be had with closing of this case wouldnt they want it closed out as well?
Unless maybe they (TPS and AG) know there is nothing else and once its closed its over and we can put a fork in it.
Or, AG has nothing to do with TPS and she is trying to get her $ any way she can.
Or, AG smells a rat and is calling them on it.
No one really knows but her.
As for me, I hope im wrong but I think the only thing I'll get out of this whole 11 year $hit show is a few Coop shares and an education on how unreliable message board fodder is.
I said that meaning if the is no 75/25 split then Preferreds are paid first. If there is a split then yes the get paid together.
Exactly....I dont see what the big deal about 75/25 to the end or not is all about. I think everyone who owns preferred would be more than satisfied with $1000 per share....and if as much is coming back as most here predict....common owners will be happy too. The only effect it would have is if there was not enough to make par for preferreds or just barely enough. Then commons would be SOL...but everyone predicting returns outside the BK have all predicted way more than $7.5 b....so, we're all either screwed or we're all good.
No one wants to answer this?
That all makes sense.....But the part of the DS HM posted indicated that EQUITY cusips issued to SHAREHOLDERS who sign releases would be cancelled. ....it didnt read Debt cusips or bond cusips. It read Equity cusips issued to shareholders.....is that not us?
There are two distinctly different issues here.
1. Did the UW's really have choice between 18 and 19?
2. Why are they fighting to keep the $70mil claim in class 19? Two possibilities
2a. There is a ton of money there and they know it. I hope this is why.
2b. But they could also know there is nothing left and an approved claim with no payment might provide them with a a tax benefit from a $70 mil loss? Just wondering if that could be the reason they are fighting (paying lawyers) to stay alive?
I do agree that if they are spending money on legal fees fighting to stay in class 19, then they have to beleive there is money there. That is a completely different story than the claim that they chose class 19 over 18.
Lol...guess that is the "tell"
Exactly. The arguement that they wanted to be in class 19 instead of 18 makes no sense.
Are we so sure the UW's wanted to be included in class19? Maybe because they had a claim denied in 18, 19 was their only option of even a remote chance of a recovery. Everyone keeps saying their actions of "wanting" to be in 19 is proof there is big money there....where is the proof they "wanted" to be included in class 19 instead of 18?
I hope most here are right and there is a pot of gold there, but I am really skeptical. I'll be shocked if there is, and not surprised if there isn't.
Ive never understood this. AZ and LG both beleive there will be significant recoveries for any shareholders who signed timely releases....and for a while both believed that would be shown through escrow markers or cusips. AZ said all along we would never be issed LTI's. Now they both believe escrow marker/cusips arent necessary any longer because the funds are coming outside of the BK and there are other mechanisms in place to determine our payouts.
So how can two "avatars" agree on so much but yet each thinks the other one is full of $hit. Or at least they dont seem to care for the others opinion.
Anyone else find this odd?
Was it just coincedence that the $1.88 bills JPM paid for "everything" just happened to also be 1% of the WMB deposits?
Did the FDIC say I tell ya what Jamie, just give us 1% of the deposit value and we'll call it even?....Jamie said, nahhh....throw in another $600mil in cash and some tax refunds and you got a deal.
That's the reason why its hard to understand why these assets, if there are any, havent already been released. If they are 100% unrelated to the bankruptcy, why does the bankruptcy have to be finalized before they are released.