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I do enjoy the in-depth conversayion.so I’ll proceed recognizing it’s all speculation. On or about the same date in July Kaplan told “V” to recommend sanctions (note he didn’t define _ from injunction to monitory with no limits) on or about the same date he ordered by “V’s” request further discovery & for it to be produced in Sept. By doing so (happy he did) put the “V” staff in a position to determine damages before all discovery is complete. As a result “V” has to determine damages without all the facts. WEhat I believe will follow the Sept date is a request by “V” for a continuance so they may review the facts that MAY be divulged in this Sept round of discovery. To further speculate should it reveal more in-depth activity on the part of “G”(which will be huge & another NDA case)
I understand you were just pulling numbers out of the air with a little grounding relating to the 817.2 figure that’s been discussed. I would suggest now following our discussion that we inflate that number greatly and more in line with what the numbers really could be.(Think big as big corporations do, not in millions, it’s a different mind set to comprehend for us average guy’s where some struggle to make the mortgage payment you got a doctor’s bill because Johnny broke his arm.)
I suggest we talk in billion’s, hard to believe but this patent is a standard used world wide and in this NDA case the contents were released by ZTE. Now calculate the value lost, it is truly unbelievable. As a result thinking in billion’s becomes reasonable. So I would suggest (not to raise false hopes and certainly not to PUMP) that we can speculate in terms of billions.
Regardless of numbers I concur with your calculations and the factors you included in your methodology, however, regarding the process. You appropriately included market multiples (which I hadn’t considered, thank’s) but there was no inclusion of what I believe Kaplan can do punitively and hay is a 2x,3x,4x, multiple of what (damages) value ”V” places on the NDA breach . So agan with the above now taken into consideration run the number’s again.
I do enjoy the in-depth conversayion.so I’ll proceed recognizing it’s all speculation. On or about the same date in July Kaplan told “V” to recommend sanctions (note he didn’t define _ from injunction to monitory with no limits) on or about the same date he ordered by “V’s” request further discovery & for it to be produced in Sept. By doing so (happy he did) put the “V” staff in a position to determine damages before all discovery is complete. As a result “V” has to determine damages without all the facts. WEhat I believe will follow the Sept date is a request by “V” for a continuance so they may review the facts that MAY be divulged in this Sept round of discovery. To further speculate should it reveal more in-depth activity on the part of “G”(which will be huge & another NDA case)
I understand you were just pulling numbers out of the air with a little grounding relating to the 817.2 figure that’s been discussed. I would suggest now following our discussion that we inflate that number greatly and more in line with what the numbers really could be.(Think big as big corporations do, not in millions, it’s a different mind set to comprehend for us average guy’s where some struggle to make the mortgage payment you got a doctor’s bill because Johnny broke his arm.)
I suggest we talk in billion’s, hard to believe but this patent is a standard used world wide and in this NDA case the contents were released by ZTE. Now calculate the value lost, it is truly unbelievable. As a result thinking in billion’s becomes reasonable. So I would suggest (not to raise false hopes and certainly not to PUMP) that we can speculate in terms of billions.
Regardless of numbers I concur with your calculations and the factors you included in your methodology, however, regarding the process. You appropriately included market multiples (which I hadn’t considered, thank’s) but there was no inclusion of what I believe Kaplan can do punitively and hay is a 2x,3x,4x, multiple of what (damages) value ”V” places on the NDA breach . So agan with the above now taken into consideration run the number’s again.
copperslash believe your underestimating settlement amt...again this is only for the NDA breach.there should be nothing re patents considered here (am aware u didn't speak to that but for those unsure wanted to make that clear. As to the.NDA "v" for the most part has been given the green light by the court. .zte's conduct has been one of the most egregious...(. It will be a classic case studied in law schools) zte released approx 15 patents that were covered by the NDA. We can only believe as soon as those patents were exposed they spread throughout the tech world. So ow what is there value? "V" in the Google case could speculate 1.2~1.5 billion.... That's just google using the Adwords code.....how many search engines are doing the same....answer many. Back to NDA breach now what's its value on the face, then value of punitive,then value of lost review in U.S. Alone(=1.5 billion projected) by the why.... They have some contracts in U.S. Presently... Believe with Google and believe others....sanctions stop them dead....assets frozen.
So when you discuss settlement amounts use these points as points of consideration the court has implied "v" should consider in there motion.Realize,Kaplan will not let the integrity of the court falter...this IS the U.S. And a U.S. Court....all will play by the rules!
Huawei, ZTE and Alcatel's chips are in these phones
http://celebcafe.org/is-nextbit-the-next-big-player-in-premium-smartphones-4938/
the first two were investigated by the congress 2002
ZTE's legal council wanted by US govt for embargo infringement (selling to Iran) in dealing with US (Cisco)products
Huawei, ZTE and Alcatel's chips are in these phones
http://celebcafe.org/is-nextbit-the-next-big-player-in-premium-smartphones-4938/
the first two were investigated by the congress 2002
ZTE's legal council wanted by US govt for embargo infringement (selling to Iran) in dealing with US (Cisco)products
"V" may be getting cash poor but with what's been found in discovery and what's suspected to be found will be most valuable...there are people ,groups out there that quietly invest (all above board..some for altruistic reasons & not to take advantage) there may be those who see ZTE and others as a threat to the US and for those reasons will financially support "V"s" effort.
Trump here you go. Do it for altruistic reasons.
copperslash believe you may be significantly underestamating the value of the standard patient "V" owns....it's worldwide used by all devices..as a sample caculation and useing "G" factual reports see vet64to82"s reporthttps://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WQUJvnRMdS7i7OQye5ypCkhZcAXEP52inYcy28Wd3-Q/edit#gid=0
We know "G"s" size..ZTE same
NO settlement, drive them to the wall,expose whats in decovery... it will strengthen “V” ability in future court & licensing processes
Please pardon in advance and excuse what may appear to be "splitting hairs."
("V" received discovery material in Chinese at the 12th hour once before & will probably do so again so let it be in English at there cost)
but as a result of there demonstrated business practices one can not rely on there honesty / integrity. They are not the respected typical hard nosed business people, they are untrustworthy. As I've been told by one who has tough in China, the characters in the written language can be easily changed resulting in misinterpretation. I would not put it past them to try to weave in the thousand's of pages they're supposed to submit. MY point simply was for Judge Kaplan to require a,thus place the responsibility on ZTE to submit all documents in both English and Chinese (original dialect as there are several). This will prevent misinterpretation and passable ground for appeal. Have become very cynical, my apologies.
NO SETTLEMENT New layers ok.. Experienced ok BUT that 2 me means those who can negotiate & keeping within FRAND framework of good faith negotiating and NOT COME TO A SETTLEMENT! The numbers/amts and information to be derived in Discovery is so valuable ZTE can’t afford not to settle. That = NO Settlement…if those new layer are good they’ll recognize this & should get a bonus.
In present SDNY action result will be for NDA breach. Not patent infringement.
The value in the NDA suit will be the amt imposed..which will be huge...pos 3x applied & possibly president setting..
But, equally important, the info to or not to be found in discovery. That will effect all "V" efforts in ALL courts. Plus expose what "G" involvement may or may not have been.
so were talking about
1 NDA (amt)
2 ZTE infringement cases world wide (amt)
3 "G" infringement US case alone (amt)& possibly applied world wide (amt)
4 all companies worlwide will settle (amt)
5 "V's" basket of 500 parents to work on (amt)
6 less_____$ when there staff goes to 100 in NYC
7 less_____$ when there staff( 2 handle incomming licencing requests) goes another 100 ( how sweet)
All those factors will most likely total figures that no one is contemplating. It is time to think out of the box, realistically world wide in the billions...must think in dollar terms as these moguls do...8 or 900 million small change when u consider the number of infringes and the length of time they infringed. This number is HUGE, but nobody can conceive of it.
For a small sample:
Go to http://bit.ly/1c85VNi
Numbers are facts and his spread sheet covers 10-15 Q"s 0f "G" . Seeing this, then you'll understand the possibilities above mentioned. U might not agree with vet but numbers are numbers.
Teck I'm sure the normal methods of placing a value on a company are correct, but this is not a normal situation. I concur the numbers will be very large ( we're not talking in the million's anymore). Originally, after reading Vets spreadsheet "V" could conceivably be worth 60-80 $pps. NOW, when looking at the facts as VET displayed in his spreadsheet and gert a feel for the numbers JUST in the "G" US action AND then to place a value (guesstimate) on 1-5 above you then can better understand 6-8B (60-80$)pps can rise much higher. Then when that happens, those normal factors will begin to apply(or be applied) by W.S.
correction.."Not doing so will cause world courts to be aware of how they opperate. (these same courts are watching SDNY...several seem to be on hold)
The power of the PEN
Why 2 go..Negative but justifiable PR supports Kaplan...if there is a news storm in this country it will spread round the world ( it's only early stages) must over load news outlets with samples of pages from vrng24 link. I have had experience dealing with the press when they are continuously encouraged and have a hot story they sell papers. Concurrently, CNN,CNBC,FOX CBS,NBC,ABC must now get the same information from as many of us in volume siteing vrng24. Once there(easier to start this in a slow news cycle as Aug usually is) the candidates will pick up on this and that will really create pressure on China. Maybe China will be encouraged to ( enact legislation) nationwide application of FRAND on all foreign licences. Not doing so will cause world courts The advantage to them would be an act / demonstration of good faith and bring there whole nation in alignment with world standard regarding patents. Seems like a reach but it is not, look what's occurred when I started posting news paper links and urging folks to do what I suggested. So lets talk this up, it can only enhance the NDA award. This is a real opportunity for stock holder to have an affect.
Participate news drive gaining momentum see LONGS last post below.
In that article there is a post that lists 50 top US papers to contact….send samples from vrng24 listing…as they get our alerts in volume the will follow up.
Vringo up 8.6% following ZTE lawsuit updates [View news story Jul 16 2015 Seeking Alpha
http://seekingalpha.com/user/312739/comments/3 .
news drive gaining momentum
Vringo up 8.6% following ZTE lawsuit updates [View news story Jul 16 2015 Seeking Alpha
http://seekingalpha.com/user/312739/comments/3
www.reuters.com/article/2015/08/11/zte-u...
www.scmp.com/news/china/policies-politic...
thttp://nytimes.com/reuters/2015/08/11/technolog...
Patentinvester news source outlets see SA "Vringo up 8.6% following ZTE lawsuit updates [View news story]Jul 16 2015
One new breave reporter..not I suggest a full court press see SA comment how to do this mg62bk comment in "Vringo up 8.6% following ZTE lawsuit updates" has links to 50 contacts
Go to SA see Justin Giles articl links work there see mg62bk
Go to SA see Justin Giles articl links work there see mg62bk
facts = pressur = larg award comming."It's been a rough day for Chinese telcos Huawei and ZTE, which the US House Intelligence Committee has effectively blocked from expanding into the US.
In August, CNET took an in-depth look at Huawei by visiting its China headquarters and interviewing a senior vice president and board member. It's a very worthwhile read.Accusations and suspicions so far directed against Huawei have been largely speculative. The case against ZTE, on the other hand, appears stronger. AReuters report today says Cisco is cutting ties with ZTE because of allegations that the Chinese company had sold banned computer equipment from Cisco and other American companies to Iran's largest telecommunications firm." http://tinyurl.com/o6b...
THIS is huge
Investigative Report on the U.S. National Security Issues Posed by Chinese Telecommunications Companies Huawei and ZTE"The threat posed to U.S. national-security interests by vulnerabilities in the telecommunications supply chain is an increasing priority given the country’s reliance on interdependent critical infrastructure systems; the range of threats these systems face; the rise in cyber espionage; and the growing dependence all consumers have on a small group of equipment providers. ......................... 1”B. ZTE failed to answer key questions or provide supporting documentation supporting its assertions; instead, it asserted that answering the Committee’s requests about its internal corporate activities would leave the company criminally liable under China’s states-secrets laws………………………………… 35 i. ZTE did not alleviate Committee concerns about the control of Chinese state-owned enterprises in ZTE’s business decisions and operations. ..... 37 ii. ZTE maintains a Chinese Party Committee within the company, but has not fully clarified how the Party Committee functions, who chooses its members, and what relationship it has with the larger Chinese Communist Party. …………………………………………………………... 40 iii. ZTE failed to disclose information about its activities in the U.S………… 42 iv. ZTE failed to provide any answers or evidence about its compliance with intellectual property or U.S. export-control laws..................... 42 v. ZTE failed to provide clear answers to Committee questions about its R&D activities, particularly as they relate to any military or government projects................. 43
Not your mom & pop store
http://tinyurl.com/9bv...
There have been several post by me inferring ZTE has a greater motive for making large profits in the US. Below for your review is not speculation nor conspiratorial theorizing.
Is THIS ZTE’s real motivation? Selling phones is chump change as compare to what they could do. Alarmist or realist? Reread Strike's post.?
and there's more
http://tinyurl.com/q6q... : Got an Android phone? SMASH IT with a hammer – and do it NOWhttp://http://tinyurl.com/pae...?
"IMHO the more publicity this case gets, the better" see freeforums..mg62bk thread