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Just read 3 posts about buying high and PPs falling so far they had to sell to save some money.
Weather anyone learns anything here or not, please remember this, " The hand should never be on the trigger, while watching pps." "The PPs should never get farther down, than you are willing to lose!"
Study (DD) study (TA), know what you expect, determine an entry point, usually at a time just like now with GTEL. Low volume, no trend, and tight spread. Then determine how muchYOU want to earn and how much YOU will except as a loss. and ONLY trade when those targets are reached !
Stock over $5.00, you can put on round trip trades with most brokers now! Pennies you have to up date during the day. Got to sit at the table to play pennies. but keep the hand off the trigger. place orders for targets.
willsimon
IMO Periods of low volume, no trend, and tight PPs spreads are periods of accumulation, with all stocks. Who ? Probably everyone that can, other then day traders, who are gone, but a stock that once made them good money, stays on their watch list for a couple weeks, just in case.
So who is selling, if everyone wants to accumulate? I have no idea, but a guess, of what happens.
Not day traders, they place large block orders, which are gone with them.
Small Spec. traders, average trade size 10k with a .01 or .005 spread is for $50 to $100 expected profits. Should be small players trying to earn spending money or supplement their income. The guys that can't afford to lose, but have not learned the game in penny land yet! Plenty out there. Sitting at the computer each day, with their finger on the mouse, waiting to panic or get excited!
MMs are in business every day, no volume = no fees, no rev's. They have to trade their inventory to stay in business. I also feel their way to accumulate during these times is SLOW gradual walking the PPs down, until the small spec player looses as much as MMs can get.
As the MMs collect small daily amounts of shares, the losing spec players disappear and the volume gets smaller and smaller, until there is no one left to take their shares.
Next is a small pop, from MMs selling some of the accumulated share for higher PPs, to draw attention back, or a run, because of a company happening. Where the game starts over again.
Longs, I can't think of a reason any long would sell.
Juststocks
Thanks for the invite, I'm not a paid member and will be limited in posting. Been really busy lately, with starting to day trade again, for only a few more weeks I hope, and the spring coming, I'm shifting from the computer to the yard. Also have a classic 92 Jag, that's been sitting in the driveway since last summer, I'm cleaning up to sell.
With all that, I'm trying to clean up my portfolio at night, screening new plays, so I can stop day trading, then DDing GTEL message boards for anything new and posting on the TA board.
If Rocky's Gtel board posting, reflects the trading interest, we're lucky to have EOD volumes of 1 million. Went from 5 posts an hour, to 5 a day, the last few days.
Thanks again, I stop back from time to time.
Starboy - Todays chart - I can't believe someone would invest in a stock that they didn't do enough DD to know it was on the edge of BK. The first thing to check in a penny investment,If you read the word BK or insufficent funds to continue, any where, move on, for any thing but a day trade. Trading 101!
I agree with William2112 & TechBear, pop a couple days late! See chart;
There is a continuation of my day trading post below chart. Only one of many styles to day trade, but IMO this is the safest way, if any day trading is safe. LOL
Day trading for fun & spending money
Last night I explained my day trading rules, here are the results in black and white. Start at bottom, work up.
-----------Thurs.New PPs hold .0174 -----------------------
Date ----- time --------- seq.code ---action---shares---price- comm -cost -proceeds
2005-05-05 15:50:20 AACS9835 Buy TNOG 30000 0.0163 5.00 494.00 0.00
----------New PPs hold .0178 -----------------------
2005-05-05 10:55:26 AACS9760 Buy TNOG 20000 0.0169 5.00 343.00 0.00
Thurs. == I went to Swing trade mode today == add every -5% TA says good pop soon! new swing targets -20%/+25% from .018, expect to close early next week.
If still day trading Sell Target is .198 10% above .018; step 3 add buy is 5% above .018 or .0189, loss target still -20%;
---------- Wens. New PPs hold .018 --------------------------
2005-05-04 15:49:39 AACS8489 Buy TNOG 25000 0.0173 5.00 437.50 0.00
2005-05-04 11:32:35 AACS8244 Buy TNOG 50000 0.0183 5.00 920.00 0.00
--------------------Tues. + 10% ---------------------------
2005-05-03 15:16:27 AACS7656 Sell TNOG 50000 0.191 5.00 0.00 950.00
2005-05-03 11:56;36 AACS7011 Buy TNOG 50000 0.0174 5.00 875.00 0.00
-------------------Tues. +15% -----------------------------
2005-05-03 10:19:30 AACS6846 Sell TNOG 75000 0.021 5.00 0.00 1570.00
-----------Fri. New PPs hold .0183 + 10% new target .021 -----
2005-04-29 12:51:02 AACS4402 Buy TNOG 25000 0.016 5.00 405.00 0.00
2005-04-29 09:55:49 AACS3846 Buy TNOG 50000 0.0195 5.00 980.00 0.00
--------------------Thurs. +10% ---------------------------
Date ----- time --------- seq.code ---action---shares---price- comm -cost -proceeds
2005-04-28 12:52:26 AACS2892 Sell TNOG 50000 0.0187 5.00 0.00 930.00
2005-04-28 11:48:12 AACS2647 Buy TNOG 50000 0.017 5.00 850.00 0.00
fivecents
I understand, if you start producing over a number of trades a year, your accountant will change his rate structure. Charging by the trade. I never hit that number, so can't help more. Taxes the same as any trade under 30 days, I think, but much more paper work!
I don't play much attention, all I know is every time I make over $500 profit on one trade during the month, I write a 20% monthly check for all that month, to a special money market saving account and pay the tax & accountant from there. Usually enough.
trims
You have to free register I think. The info goes away each day it is up dated, so you have to keep records on paper. That way you can find norm's for any number of days, using basic math.
I use;
http://quotes.freerealtime.com/dl/frt/S?toparea=Home
---------------------------------------------
As for my day trading style, I don't normally day trade any longer, but my portfolio has been slow closing and I decided to go hunting for some action. Kind of an actionhallic.
I only day trade pennies, and we all know the risk there. I've had better success by breaking my orders up during the day. Usually 3 trades with 1/2 first, and then 1/4 more and 1/4 more.
That way I may hedge on any unexpected down trend continuation, or change in movement during the day.
You have to do alot of home work to find the GOOD play. You have to have spec's you want and if the stock doesn't meat them all, I just keep looking. Close is never good enough, close will put you in the wrong play ground.
The things I mentioned here are basically the same for all my trades, I have rules and the rules must be followed to trade. Found way less dissappointments that way.
As for the rules or spec's, you pick them, If they are to high you won't find a match to play, if too low in expectations you'll find to many. If you can find 2 to 4 that meat your specs, after screening 25 to 50 or so, IMO you have the correct expectations.
Pennies, I like, large volumes, a 1 month over all up trend, 10 cents or under, and 2 pops several days apart.
As for buying/selling targets, I normally trade $1k or $2k and look for 10 to 15% a day. Not big money, but fun and good spending money. The only reason I would day trade.
I use targets, after the first buy, my target is 10%, 10% down for the 2nd buy, and 5% up from the 2nd for the 3rd buy. Many times you don't close all 3. In the same respect you hedge the volitility. A perfect day, using this will end up with with around 15 - 17%, 7 - 12% with 2 trades closed and 10% with one, because the sell target for the first is 10%.
Because of the risk factor & volitility, I will except a larger loss than profit day trading and will sell when the PPs reaches 20% below my first trade no matter what step of the plan I'm in. Then move on to another I found the night before.
Try not to trade until after the morning rush hour. If you've been in and out of the stock for several days, you may see an up morning coming and if you got big ones buy into that days morning run. Normally very dumb move. After the first 1/2 daily order is filled, it could go up or down. If it goes up 10% sell and move to the next on your watch list, you got 50% of what you wanted, if not wait. Then play out your plan.
PS: I have a 25% target for my day trade, because I expect a large pop soon and have step 3 to close tommorrow 5% up from the 2nd today and Then I'm holding for a 25% swing trade.
Another long post that covers my MMA (market markers analysis). If you have no interest in this, pass on, no other info here!
I learned a long time ago, if you can't beat them, learn what they do and do the same to win! I hate their actions and the feeling I use to get trading in their play ground. Been trying to change that feeling for 2 years and have come to the point I'm not scared, but I'll run as fast as I can, if the beast's routine changes quickly.
So here's MMA todays thought! LOL
OK I feel better today. MMA (market maker analysis) shows M&MS were back to a normal level of manipulation today.
AT any rate I feel better, that the M&Ms are back to normal manipulation levels.
-----------------------------------------------------------
MMA
I think it was just after the tumble, after the Stat show, I mentioned watch the EOD stats, to see what the MMs were doing. I'll try to explain how I use this.
Watch the number of trades made each day, the average size of each trade. After a while you'll see a norm. I saw the norm for this period to be;
NORMAL
number of trades each day - 950
the average size of each trade - 10.1k
If the # of trades goes up and size goes up - buying pressure
IF # of trades goes down and size goes up - selling pressure
If they go opposite MMs playing. The larger the gap the larger the playing, as you can see yesterday the MMs played hard and today they played a normaly.
Unlike any TA indicator, you must keep up with this to adjust the norms, if a pattern change seems to be forming. I like to resample every 2 weeks. About how long they stay in one.
YESTERDAY
# of Trades - 506
Ave Trade Size - 20,879
TODAY
# of Trades - 590
Avg Trade Size - 13,103
----------------------------------------------------------------
IMO; yesterdays MM selling spurt accomplished two things, some one got a mill and a half shares of GTEL low and my triangle was ripped apart.
On thing one, I'm leaning toward it may have been an outside investor directing the market maker to buy for them. Total left field statement, that entered my head from today's GM, billionaire, tender offer deal.
He could have just bought 28 million shares on the open market, but made a tender offer to purchase direct from GM. The inference was he did this to move the stocks PPs up to his tender offer price, which it did, then some.
A smart "legal" business deal. He owned 20 million already and in doing the tender offer; swung the publics opinion up to match his expectations for the company, to match his. If he just bought open market he would have gotten the shares lower but the company he believe strongly in, would have not gotten a boost.
So instead of buying low and waiting for PPs to go where he felt it should be, he gambled on traders bringing the PPs to where he thought it should be.
-------
Now say an investor wanted to invest small scale, and wanted to plop down over a quarter mill cash into GTEL. He could go directly to the company and get into a time consuming negotiation with legal fees and all, while the timing factor went by, or he could place a market maker order to purchase as low as possible, for him, and own what he wanted, when he wanted. UCAP came from no where and went just as fast, (spent today @ 26-27 on the ask, way down) telling me it was only a one day deal for them, why else would they do what they did yesterday? Probably plenty or reasons, but I like mine for now.
On thing two, Thing one just happened the same time, thing two was suppose to happen, bad luck!
PS: My second day trade buy order closed, the last 15 minutes of the day, down 10% from the first. Now I wait for the forming triange to work, for my 25% target. MMs letting it play out without much manipulation I can see. This could change, if volume falls below 20 mill. IMO
Did everyone see this? Wow I love free advertising, Gtel, Moneygram and Western Union. I guess Gtel got real big, real fast, I didn't event see it happen yet, but I'll take the free advertising, putting Gtel in the same class as the big players any day! LOL
Marketing 101, Gtel has been branded with Western Union! And Gtel didn't say it, someone else did, cool.
Payless Communication Holdings, Inc. ("PCH") (OTC:PCNH) today announces to its shareholders, that Payless Telephone Company, a wholly-owned subsidiary of PCH, intends to offer consumers a complete array of Voice, Data, and Video products for both residential and business use. Payless Telephone Company is a CLEC (Competitive Local Exchange Carrier) with pending interconnections with BellSouth and Verizon that will allow Payless Telephone Company to offer local services in over 35 states in the USA. In addition, Payless Telephone Company will complement their local services with the addition of 1(+) long distance, Dial Up Internet, and Broadband DSL. The ability to offer these services will enable Payless Telephone Company to compete with companies such as BellSouth, Verizon, Qwest, and Supra Telecom. Payless Telephone Company also intends to offer various magic cards in the USA and in countries around the world for internet, electronic money transfers, and voice calls. Payless Telephone Company will compete in this arena with companies such as GlobeTel (OTC:GTEL), MoneyGram, and Western Union. Our business plan calls for marketing to a niche Ethnic market within the residential and business communities that have family and friends in the USA and overseas.
cab
Looks like we pooped instead of popping. LOL
IMO it's all MMs the last several days and their plays don't count for Gtel value, for a long like me, RIGHT? LOL
Gone a run for a while, have to check if my day trade buy order closed and eat!
BANG !!! just got it now, boy do I have spiddy sence! LOL
Just put in step 2 buy order in 10% lower. Wish me luck!
wolfrun
I think the India trip is a plus. I read a post that Toaboas, Gtel finance guy, said Gtel has issued millions of magic money cards for sale in India and Asia Q1, at the Strat show, maybe Mr Huff was tighing up some loose ends or bringing back a trunk of cash. LOL
Also saw a tid bid PR where GTEL is being quoted as a provider of value add cards, in a US telco announcement, about entering the value card market. I love free advertising buy others in the same business, but different market!
I really feel the core business is what we are going to get long PPs returns on, as shareholders.
william2112
Are you trying to ruin my day? Were they selling yesterday also, I don't see them anywhere in the ask ,only the bid now.
My problem yesterday was UCAP's out of the blue return selling, was exactly what happened to Gtel June & Oct 2004 with SKYC. They came in and dominated the ask then, PPs went no where, but down, then.
UCAP was here OCT 2004 and went away also and returned selling again yesterday, just like SKYC came in June 2004, left and came back selling Oct/ Nov.
I saw one of those possible patterns that are there if you see them things, we talked about before. LOL
Well at least UCAP is gone, way up at 27 for the ask. Guess their waiting for the 3 cent up pop I was and our .222 buys yesterday, don't seem to look good so far today.
At any rate glad they aren't selling like yesterday. The MMs are talking like crazy today though. Should be an interesting day, we'll see if Gtel can climb a little, after the rush hour.
Looks kind of walkie down, so far! 2 million shares with 165 trades, seems inline for the Gtel norm, unlike yesterdays action. Ave trade size is back normal, at 10k again, also.
Not as worried as last night, about revisiting 2004 here.
Doing some night work, on the day trade stock, I've been playing 3 days and felt it makes my point, very well, for using chart patterns for entries & exits.
I know this is not a GTEL chart, but it's a good example for TA chart patterns. Besides I spent some time on it and never saw such an accurate example, so I wanted to share!
Tech you can delete it if you feel it's inappropriate.
trimsprims
This maybe a good time for me to continue my post about "Multicollinearity", Anyone can't read more at the following link. About the most indepth explaination I found since the original post.
http://stockcharts.com/education/TradingStrategies/Multicollinearity.html
Technical indicators should be arranged in categories to keep from using too many from the same category. Here is a table that categorizes the indicators available at StockCharts.com:
Category
Indicators
Momentum
Rate of Change (ROC)
Stochastics (%K, %D)
Relative Strength Index (RSI)
Commodity Channel Index (CCI)
Williams %R (Wm%R)
StochRSI
TRIX
Ultimate Oscillator (ULT)
Aroon
-----------------------------------------------------------
Trend
Moving Averages
Moving Average Convergence Divergence (MACD)
Average True Range (ATR)
Wilder's DMI (ADX)
Price Oscillator (PPO)
-------------------------------------------------------------
Volume
Accumulation Distribution
Chaikin Money Flow (CMF)
Volume Rate of Change
Volume Oscillator (PVO)
Demand Index
On Balance Volume (OBV)
Money Flow Index
---------------------------------------------------------
The best way to quickly determine if an indicator is collinear with another one is to chart it. Make sure you have enough data on the chart to get a good indication. If they basically rise and fall in about the same areas, the odds are that they are collinear and you should just use one of them.
greenhornet1
Yes, IMO the 1.7 mill was M&Ms settling out trades they made to each other during the day.
This opinion has to be wrong, because market makers don't buy and sell to each other to move the PPs.
But IMO two or more MMs bought or sold 1.7 million shares 1/10ths of a cent apart in large block trades to manipulate traders to follow their direction, during the days tradeing.
At the end of the day, they sell the shares back to each other, at as tiny a profit or loose as possible and still end up good, because they bought more shares lower from weak hand trader.
Between 2:30 and 3pm just when the PPs started to drop from .227 to .222, I add up 1,630,500 shares traded, closing at .225 & .224, between 2:30 and 3 pm. Then between 3:15 and 4 pm 1,952,000 closed at .221 & .222. Of course every share traded didn't go to and from MMs, but I'll bet the bulk did.
So now MM A that bought, the shares at .225; sold them back to MM B at .224, after the close. And they both accumulated 1.9 mill between them for ,.222 or so. Get the idea.
Who else can trade pennies after hours, some crazy retail trader, that just decided to buy $400,000 dollars worth of Gtel the last minute? Or maybe it was 10 or 20 traders that wanted to buy at .224 when the ask was .222, why ?
'Frugal Investor'
I'm not an investment counselor, just a traders trying to pass on my experience.
I feel you concern, been there. But I can't tell you what to do with you trade or what will happen to Gtel's PPs.
I can only express my opinion on what I see happening to gtel after the fact. Technical analysis and experience only allows the individual to take a guess what to do.
My guess is don't accumulate Gtel shares now. It may continue to go lower. If your not to the point where you know what your doing, IMO you should only use a small enough amount of money, that you don't worry about loosing it. Because playing penny stocks is the best place to loose money fast!
Not trying to sound like a snot, but we all have been newbies and felt the panic. The only way, to not get that feeling, is to use less money and learn. Winning or loosing a hundred is better than winning or losing a thousand, when your new.
About all the advise, I would feel comfortable handing out. I have had every extra dollar I could get my hand on in stocks that went down so far, I couldn't sell for months. One of the first things I learned NOT to do again. If your there and can't hold for months, on a bad down trend, I'd try to break even and start developing a trading style that matches my cash.
mitchell66
We could see 26 or 27 tommorrow! And yes you have the idea long, I'd wait to accumulate on this new low. That's all! Wait and see if .222 is the real investors bottom or the MMs can take it lower.
'Frugal Investor'
Not saying anything will happen, just I'm seeing a possible change in the MM degree of manipulation, for now.
The past 3 days were the strongest manipulation I've seen for some time.
I am seeing the TA, we have been posting about since the board started, starting to breakdown under the MMs thumbs.
We need volume! If the MMs can't make money on spec traders volume, they tend to take total control and walk stocks down accumulating on the way. That way, when the expected run does come, they make up the money they are not getting on volume, by a larger profit margin, as they sell lower PPs accumulated shares into the run, helping it continue and helping volume to continue on spec trading after.
It's just how the game is played in pennyland. I thought Gtel had reached a point where this would not happen again. And we could start to rely on TA for accurate PPs movement.
Now I'm worried, the consistant TA accuracy started messing up 3 days ago. Now with UCAP, who hasn't been around since the last substained walk down, shows up dumping on the price.
http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:6hx1aG0iU5oJ:www.otcbb.com/asp/tradeact_mml.asp%3Fsearchfor%3DG...
PS:Frugal If there is a tumble it's a tumble, rallies don't happen before, during, or after a tumble. I don't see a tumble, just a walk down. Tumble is what happened 16 days ago.
Hope your long. If so, don't worry about what may happen the next month or two. But do wait to accumulate for now!!!
Tech said this is a good time for accumulation. His reasons seem good, based on TA. Remember my triangle said pop soon, also.
Now remember my posting a OCT/NOV 2004 chart on GTEL weeks ago, with indicator after indicator showing up, and the PPs going no where or down, because of MMs.
That said, My .222 buy order closed today and I'm NOT happy it did.
I just got a chill down my spine. An MM chill. A 2004 SKYC now UCAP chill, a volume doubled, on daily trades halving, daily trade size doubled, with MM % of volume settling, tripleing; chill.
This shows the MMs did just what Tech said today, ACCUMULATE on lower PPs and strong selling that came from where? TA tells us NO trend, volumes have been getting smaller, as spec traders leave on 2 weeks of flat trading. How long has it been since you saw 100k blocks, and 2 million shares settled at the EOD? If spec traders are leaving, who's left to sell 100k blocks on lower PPS, Gtel longs?
A MM ax may have arrived chill. This post replaced a 2 page post, I decided not to post now. That explained why I'm worried about the last 3 days of MM manipulation, with UCAP showing up selling, and a possible end to accurate TA for GTEL, for a while. Lets just say I'm worried, for now.
I REALLY hope my triangle pop happens tomorrow, as it should and UCAP doesn't stay at the ask selling, all day.
If this does not happen, I'd hold on accumulating GTEL for a while!!! Because my spiddy sense is twitching. I'm seeing late 2004 in M&M land. Dought Gtel's good Q1 will create a spec play major run and the Strathead/Exchange move, which will, is months away.
Plenty of time for a long substained walk down, for MM accumulation, before the major run event, M&M profit run. It happened before, could happen again.
Lets pray for the 3 cent pop! Let alone the expected mid term trend reversal.
Seeing as there isn't much TA to talk about I thought I might bring up a subject I've been thinking about some. Why I only use aroons & DMI to follow GTEL, with a quick check at macd, RSI, and slow scholastics.
Multicollinearity or "collinear" indicators that restrict your view of the market by using to many.
Interested posters and lurkers should at least be aware of this. Check out the education sites for more info!
Just took a look at Gtel history, haven't been following much, have by buy at .222 and don't plan to sell soon.
starboy I agree, the run down didn't run down.
At any rate the last 15 days show they tried to take it down below .222 Fri 4/22, but monday & tuesday buying, took it back to the level before their play and some.
IMO that was where MMs saw the bottom and are continuing to accumulate at the 23 level before and after. If it does go down again, which I don't expect, I picked .222 the 22nd days HOD, as my buy point. William2112 chart also showed .222 as support low, last week or so. Event though we had a triple bottom at 20, long candle shadows.
But mainly because I don't see the MMs running it down, they would loose what little volume they still have, after that. We all know they want some spec players around for the profit run. So I expect a slow walk down like 2004 for the next 15 days, with a pop here and there to keep interest.
IMO - MAY 15, expect everything will reach Mr Huff's targets then some, but expences will continue to stay a little larger then wanted. The Strathead show & new hires, cost some big bucks.
IMO Shareholders will be happy, but I don't expect a major run on it. It's longs core business news, not the Strathead or exchange move, record breaking run coming.
TODAYS CHART
I still call a 3 cent pop next 2 days, but the MMs are going crazy, volume weak, & TA weak; anything can happen.
Mugur Thanks, Left RB DEC. last year, but followed John7777 post yesterday, you posted about, just now.
The signals I mentioned in my post were patterns I saw over a year of watching GTEL 2004. They work for me.
Yesterdays playing by John7777 answered my But this unanswered new pattern seems more complex statement I posted. As I said under 1k trades use to mean MM want to chase a block trade and the size was determined by 100 to 900. Couldn't figure out why they would through out that. They didn't, looks like someone was way out of line in MM land yesterday. No wonder the new pattern was so complex! LOL
It would be soooo good, if the SEC could use John's posts and the corresponding ticker, to stop this from continuing.
fivecents
Yes for each trade someone buys & someone sells. But At any given time, traders could have orders to buy waiting to close or sell to close. If the number of orders are 100 want to buy and 75 want to sell, then there are more buy orders than sell orders.
You should consider this, when you place an order in a fast trading stock. Limit Orders are closed in order. Forget the rest of this, if you place a market order, because you step to the head of the line, but may not go in the door you expect.
Limit orders are like standing in line, your order is there, with many others. As matching orders come in, 1 is closed and you move 1 place closer to being served. This is why I say, NEVER chase a running PPs. As soon as you step out of line, your at the back of a new line, with LOTS more people trying to get in a different door, quicked just like you.
I mean how many time have you see this happen in life, at the cash register, in traffic driving? The faster line stops (doesn't close) as the one you left continues at a steady pace. Your chances of closing before the bid/ask moves past you are lower by chasing a running stock, one step at a time.
If you get scared or excited and are going to buy or sell where you didn't plan, go one step above or below the next step. Drive on the shoulder! Chances the line there is smaller and if your going to make a mistake, may as well get it made! LOL
IMO know what you are willing to pay or sell at and place the order as soon as possible, to get in the front of the line. Worst that will happen then is you see the movie later.
Todays chart
Slightly in correct triangle, because of todays MM play, but IMO should see a small 3 cent pop, Mon. or Tues., because triangle should have formed correctly. Expect pop instead of down trend/no trend call by aroons, 3/5 day.
BoomTime & all
A long MM post- day trade post - My opinion only !
YES, The mms started talking like crazy at 2:50 PM. You'll notice we were near the top of the day. .239. If you check normal trading stopped and under 1K signals were 50% of the trades after. With bid/ask changes between each series of under 1 k trades.
If it closed there, .239, the chart would have it's 3rd top at 24. Forming a straight top line, for a ascending triangle. Didn't happen, because of EOD walk down by MMs from 2:50 to 4:01. But because it was an MM play, I'm counting the top shadow as the EOD for chart. So there!! I see a 3 cent run Monday or Tuesday!
This is a new MM pattern, they change frequently. Look for a pattern. So far, all I noticed was the odd numbers were at the bid and even at the ask. Now think of each trade as 1 MM. Add the number at the ask, over a period of time and the number at the bid. Then look to see which way the bid/ask went. Do this over and over for each bid/ask change and you may see the pattern. More odds (bid) signals than evens (ask) signals, mean take it down or vise versa.
If you find a pattern, you've decoded their signals and can read what their talking about for a week or two, until they use new signals.
I know matching trades together at bid then ask means hold. odd number trades at the ask means up, at the bid means down, under 1 k, use to mean large block trade up or down depending on at the bid ask. The size was determined by the size of the under 1 k trade. 100 small block 900 larger.
Remember 1 signal is only 1 MM of over 20 talking. It usually takes several of the same, to show a consensus. Before a direction change in the bid or ask. Unless one MM has such a large block order they just have to get. Then they will jump in with their own inventory to cause a change by their self, and settle inventory out at the EOD. Normally the MMs use backed up trade orders on their desks, before they enter them into the electronic trading system, to move PPs. Hold orders a few minutes; see buying/selling pressure or block order; give signal; consensus yes/no; release orders on desk.
But this unanswered new pattern seems more complex.
PS: One more old signal is the EOD series trades.
See the 4 or 5 - 11000 trades @ bid, the last minutes today?
Tomorrow's rush hour may run down. Yesterday they ended with 4400 at the ask and the AM rush hour today was up.
Conspiracy theory, you bet.
Just got done daytrading a different stock and the MMs used holds allot, with the block trades at the bid/ask after, trick. I used my plan "B", to average down and sold for a larger profit at EOD, because I knew what was going to happen with MM plays. Wanted to own 100k when I sold. Bought 50k when rush hour was over, but it continued down 10:30 to 11. So I watched them talk, got 25k more lower after bid hold, before lunch. Then added 25k during flat time, after up signals. EOD run got 20%, instead of 10%, if I bought 100k at once. When you know your trading a manupulated stock, on a strong 2nd - 3rd day up trend, don't buy lumps day trading. IMO
MMA(market maker analysis)101.... LOL
doc80ca
If the PPs EOD is around 24, look at the straight top line of an ascending triangle form.
Just like last weeks descending triangle except showing an up turn of about 3 cents, instead of 4 down.
I'll do a chart after close. Day trading right now.
TNOG may still have some.
BoomTime
Forget the 8 day, look at the 3 & 5 day. Both running to the bottom. Which way is there to go, when both are at bottom?
Side ways or up, plus lines running parallel shows accumulation. Put the 2 indications together and short looks like traders buying for up reversal expected in a day or two.
Probably not much of an up, but an up. Not a retest of 20 as I though yesterday! Down line also weakening since then, slowing down trend. Fri. should be the no trend day. Down about to cross 30 today!
ADD ON
Just read other answers, looks like we're getting up to speed with this arron thing, when we all see the same thing. This board is working. Everyone learning !
I noticed, since the Strathead plunge, spec traders get out as fast as they get in. IMO a good sign that the 23 cent area is the real market base now. Holding strong for the next news event to run. Just a matter of days before their back pushing PPs higher. Seems the bull goes to the pasture as quick as the bear goes to the woods. No TA involved!
The major markets are a different thing. Speculators jumping all over them. LOL Planning to completely re-evaluate my portfolio and reposition most positions to different area.
Date ----Open -High -Low --Close --Volume ---Change Change %
04/27/05 0.241 0.245 0.230 0.233 - 3,800,300 - 0.006 -2.510%
04/26/05 0.228 0.249 0.225 0.239 - 9,000,600 - 0.012 5.286%
04/25/05 0.213 0.235 0.203 0.227 - 13,093,200 - 0.014 6.573%
04/22/05 0.216 0.222 0.203 0.213 - 23,889,000 - 0.018 -7.792%
04/21/05 0.241 0.241 0.229 0.231 - 7,475,100 - 0.005 -2.326%
04/20/05 0.243 0.246 0.236 0.236 - 6,857,100 - 0.002 -0.630%
04/19/05 0.237 0.248 0.232 0.238 - 6,352,700 - 0.003 1.277%
04/18/05 0.255 0.255 0.232 0.235 - 12,317,400 - 0.015 -6.000%
04/15/05 0.258 0.270 0.242 0.250 - 13,146,000 - 0.006 -2.344%
04/14/05 0.232 0.265 0.231 0.256 - 38,369,400 - 0.026 11.304%
04/13/05 0.271 0.354 0.222 0.230 - 103,230,100 - 0.086 -27.215%
grapes
Have no idea as to the quality of the book you & william2112 posted about. As a matter of fact, I didn't say to buy one either. No biggy, but I used 4 books from the library also, over a year ago.
My point was you need to dig to excel!
But a good book is needed for something as complex as candles.
william2112
I'm the bigest stick to your plan man you'll find. I include a time frame in that plan. A typical penny swing is a week, but off OTC:BB I usually TA a target up to a month out max.
If my sell profit / sell loss targets aren't reached in a month, I do a last minutes eval, where it's at today and unload the next chance I see.
This is my income and I have to close to earn, dead money is just that! LOL
PS; I was in the unload mode on MOBL the other day. The week ended and as I was picking my dump number, it gapped up huge. Got my 25% after all, last minute. The only other stock I closed on reaching a target was, MSO, got 7% in a week!
I've been going nuts, had a spell of nothing closing.
starboy
The difference between school and college. If you want to go out in the world with a high school diploma, fine. But a good book is needed for something as complex as candles.
One needs to learn to intrepid, not just read candles. Why I gave up before, could see them and what they meant, but didn't understand why the results didn't always match my take!
IMO it's an art form!
william2112
WoW you haven't got any since over a month ago. At least I closed one last week. I couldn't hold out that long and is why I'm looking at sub pennies to day trade. Miss the action! Gtel yesterday was fun!
Just can't go that long without being satisfied. LOL
As for Gtel breaking 36 next week, like Juststocks said, you sure see more in the ink dots than I. LOL
william2112
LOL as I said it was a 1/2 penny omog.pk, can't pull up a chart today. LOL maybe it went BK!!! LOL
At any rate the question was because I was back trying to give my old brain a second chance at candles and felt the pattern was typical, as to the reason I have so much trouble with candles.
Your answer helped me realize I wasn't as far off now as I was before. Thanks I'm continuing my search for truth ! Candles! LOL
PS: sorry but a bear is a bear! Your looking at the same charts as me. If a suprise doesn't come soon I could see a new test at 20. That would be OK with me. I have a buy order down there abouts!
PPS: my daytrade comment was not clear, but I played Gtel, not omog, because it was TUES, had a good day!
Todays chart eval
Not lookin good so far! Ain't no horns there.
The bull went to the pasture! But todays EOD PPs may be a result of a last minute MM play.
We'll see buy the end of the week! IMO
kgoodrich
Thanks for the Tues. heads up. My day trade was fruitfull. At least I can buy some fruit now, after my DOW stocks causing me to hold longer. I've only had my targets hit once in a week, since the Dow & Naz has been going crazy.
Not much of a payday last week, this will help, Thanks!
Do the figures you post about, change day to day or week to week? Or are they longer term over all evaluations?
Wize Thanks, But it seems every time I try to confirm the previous candle, it has a indecision day or 2 next. Then I don't know if the 3rd days same direction candle confirms the original move or if I should through it out because it didn't confirm right away. Some times it continues, after the 3rd day and sometimes it doesn't, so I never could figure what was really happening.
Just like the shooting star I started this with. I knew what it meant, but it didn't seem to belong there with the other indicators. Aroon, RSI, MA, BB, MACD all say up trend, but shooting star is bearish. On a daytrade I can't wait to see what happenes the next few days. 1/2 a penny stocks don't wait that long!
William2112 got me to start looking at candles again and so far it seems like riding a bike. Not giving up, but I've done fine without them, I just would like to feel a little more comfortable with want I think I see.
Thanks for your time again, off to bed.
PS: been use the same thumb rule on the 20, some times you have to push it down harder then others.
Wize/William2112
As I remember, when I was in candle mode over a year ago, My bigest problem, other then memory, was determening what confirmed the previous pattern. That always said it needed confirmation.
Do you know a simple explaination, what confirms a candle pattern? or is that a multi answer, depending on the pattern I'm looking at also?
william2112 Actually you did.You pointed out all the variables, where to look and how to make up my own mind.
Also reminded me why I gave up trying to understand candles before. I do love chart patterns though and thought I'd give candles another try.
This example showed me about the same as you, the shooting start says bearish, but the rest say it shouldn't be there. So I guess you answered my question. The intra day volume is needed to interpid the long upper shadow and why it formed.
Think I may daytrade this 1/2 a penny tommorrow. Haven't day traded for a while and could be a fun day, the rest of portfolio is dull as He-l ! LOL
Back to back weekend trips to AC and daytrading again, boy I'm board! LOL
At any rate Thanks!!