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classy…thanks for that….
Problem is, they haven't met F&R under any criteria…I won't get into a F&R debate…Leave that one up to the lawyers...
If Escrow gets little to none, the ones responsible for false hope are our Reps…"More than Fair and Reasonable" and Super Sized Escrows with millions to sue, but don't…We all know the magnitude of the theft, even BK pointed out the HUNDREDS of billions sold for 1.888bln…No one, not anybody would deem 0 Escrow, and flatlining WMIH the promised Fair and Reasonable…Yeah, AZ and LG may be a little too confidant in their due diligence, especially since they weren't in the room, and it's proven that anything can happen in WAMU Land.. BUT, They are just pointing out potential F&R's they are finding in their due diligence..They aren't the ones who promised F&R...
If your right with your assumptions, and you win…Escrows get hosed..True WAMU'ers F'ed again…
Then what…Congratulations?…Pathetic banter…
OMG!!..Your kidding right?
I agree, I wouldn't write these professionals...
But, we should bombard these arses with phone calls, disrupt them to no end, till they let us know what we own…Make them read our "Itchy and Scratchy" daily commentary here, and other forms of torture,...Do something other than nothing…Let them know someone is waiting for them to deliver "Fair and Reasonable" sometime this century…Put our human face on their lack of accomplishment…Make them lie too us, and think twice if they are capable...We should definitely apply pressure…They have been accountable to no one, and it shows...
Dear Shareholders….Thanks for your patience…Now bend over….
Time to bring the good news boys…This is no thanks….
The Theory of RECONCILIATION Doesn't Exist.
The AAOC lawyer called it "Reconciliation", when he said we were NOT getting it , in our conversation months ago…
Also…a WMILT employee called it "Reconciliation" when he told me Willyjam was "aware" of these theories…
or maybe they just picked up the term from us, through all their message board spying...
You'll get this done HOW?
I had preliminary talks with a damn fine attorney, coincidentally, at the same time the KKR/Citi deal was announced…
And lets just say that "Fair and Reasonable" has more holes than swiss cheese…Despite what some here would like you to believe...
We decided to see what comes from this new KKR/Citi arrangement before going further.. ..and the talks were just preliminary, so don't have best course of action yet…hoping we get paid soon, and don't need to have an action plan...
Happy 3 year anniversary for releases due..
Another milestone without a peep from our supposed Representation…
What's the big secret?…What do we own here that was worth forgoing the right to sue anybody worth suing?…Why are Bk and Lex and etc..squelching any Escrow enthusiasm? just managing expectations?, and why are they protecting poor poor SussyWillyJam from potential backlash?..
What did our Reps know that would compel them to call this debacle F and R? Did they THINK that if everything went right, and with their stellar skills, that we would have Fair and Reasonable?, Was this a large bet on WillyJam's capabilities?..or, Did someone renege on a promise?..Because this lack of money, and clarity is Far from Fair and Reasonable no matter how many paid naysayers come here to object…
The 3 year Anniversary next month is my red line moment…No more milestones with unmet expectations, and even less clarity…There has been no Accountability from anyone associated with this debacle, and at this point, I would rather Blow this corrupted plan up, get discovery, and see what the hell the big secret has been all about...
show me the money, When!!!!!!!
Sussy's Royal Dude alert just went off….The Dude posted…He wants to know where the F HIS money is….
Nurse is back…He wants to know where the F HIS money is ….JinSong is back…Wants HIS money….He's calm as he has his Ssssaaaakkkiiiiii……..
We all have been waiting …PATIENTLY…No Fergusons, No LA Riots..Watts, Newark….We have let the Professionals do their jobs, while raking in cash…
We've WATCHED insiders mangle and manipulate the free markets…While they apparently have been WATCHING you/us (Royal Dude, Monicalaw, Tradeinman etc.) via Twitter…Don't WATCH us…Just Pay us...
It doesn't matter what anyone here has to say anymore…regarding both WMIH and Escrow…The ball's in Their court…Don't WATCH, Just Pay….
I'm both a pre and post holder….
Most pre seizure holders bought post also I believe..to average down, and the story was good…all we need is a little justice, we thought…well thats all we got so far…just a wee little tiny bit of justice…
hopefully that changes soon…
You have never and I repeat "never" been on the Susman team
you?
unprecedented for the most part in BK's
It's debatable who "saved" equity…maybe Sussy, maybe Willy, maybe Nate, maybe Mcmahon, Joyce?..
However, what WAS unprecedented was a monstrous theft of a SOLVENT institution, with major media, legal, governmental, etc. corruption...….
So, any good legal representation should be able to get the FACTS out..We were right, they weren't…yet so far, we have been the punished….
We don't know YET about Sussy and this case, but so far it's Rosencrap by a landslide…..
and we are still paying that d-bag…..
I have owned Cirque for a long time….Haven't posted because I have little to no renewable energy expertise…Some of the positives I see...
1) Stellar management, with great connections and histories of success…(huge in any market, especially Pink/OTC)
2) NOC…companies like this don't get involved with shams…
3) Share count…great, even with likely increase….
4) 50 cent share strike bonus for management
From a trading/market perspective…I REALLY like the fact that we have maintained these prices through a long period of little to no information. The OTC/PINK market has been as vicious as I have ever seen. Good companies, shorted to their literal deaths, and our EWRL has been holding steady waiting for something…With the low share count,…and everything else I raised…good news should send this soaring…and good news is likely imminent….
And thanks to the great due diligence by many here….
Just waiting and sipping my SSSSSSAAAAAAAAAKKKKKKKKIIIIIIIII!!!!!!!!!!!!!
A little early here (8 AM)…but WAMU has helped my drinking tendencies….only I have to drink mad dog instead of Brunello...
Cheers to us LONGS!
Amen to that ….That 30 billion sounds nice and fair and reasonable….(That's my number LexTrader if you are reading)...
Because we have been left in the dark, Escrow is a 100% lottery ticket…
We all have our own idea of what we'll get paid, if anything.. what's fair and reasonable.. but no one should be SURPRISED at 0 payment..10% ..50%..full par…multiple par..
From the great due diligence (we've had plenty of time for that), all payout scenarios have their merit, some more than others….
Our Reps have told us through their words and filings, that we will receive very little….
Great Due Diligence shows proper procedure/protocal should make us stinkin rich…
The filth we are dealing with would stab their sister for a dime, and have tried to kill US repeatedly throughout this ordeal…So, it's 100% whatever our Reps agreed to in that smoke filled room..Who have been tight-lipped about everything…
So, we really don't know what we have coming…do we?
Give me your fair and reasonable for what you hold,
Legally, this can NEVER be Fair and Reasonable my lawyer friend told me…
Fair, maybe…That is the money component, and we don't know what we got, yet…
Reasonable, never..That is the time component to this SETTLEMENT…and we know that many have had to sell, some have died, etc…while waiting for this corrupted mess to pay….Also, one would think you can add WMIH as an unsuitable investment for retail, and the lack of transparency, etc. etc.., as all not being Reasonable in this SETTLEMENT..But I'm no lawyer…..
Realistically, we all just want some clarity and money, and to move on with our lives…And that number will be different for everyone based on their personal views on justice, pre/post buying, mental anguish, etc…
With all the crimes we know that occurred during this WAMU saga (from whistle blowers, Project West, etc. etc.), we have NOT received Fair and Reasonable by any definition...And the longer it takes, everyone's personal Fair and Reasonable number goes up….That's only if their Escrows haven't already been willed to their heirs...
yes...extended 3yrs
— To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death.
Macbeth put our WAMU saga best…We get wound up for each contrived event…1yr anniversary, 2yr anniversary..WMILT quarterly, FDIC reconciliation, etc..etc…
But in Philadelphia, it's still worth $50 bucks…..or $2.15...
Are we finally going to get answers and money…or will they play this out to our dusty death…
It's ridiculous to have not been paid yet, and Fair and Reasonable…but the lack of information, is the most exasperating and inexcusable..for a SETTLEMENT...
What do you CARE if some sue or not, and WHY do you feel the need to protect our Reps…The only ones needing protection in this unlawful debacle, are the only ones not paid so far…us…
so stop already...
We have not received Fair and Reasonable, under any definition…
None here want to sue…We all just want to be paid…
But, it's way past time, for THEM to live up to THEIR end of the bargain, and pay up…..
or risk getting sued and discovery, plan blown up, and jail cell with Bubba….
It will just take 1 good lawyer….
The releases ain't worth crap without Fair and Reasonable…And we didn't release WillySussyJam, I believe...
You gotta give something to get…And we didn't get…yet…
And for those that had to sell, they will never get, if no Escrow...
If it doesn't make sense, there's a buck in it
What doesn't make sense, are those on the board "protecting" our Reps. from potential backlash and lawsuits. It's a free country?, so if some feel wronged, have at it. This whole charade of a settlement has been based on bogus law, with Billions in legal and professional fees spent. What"s the problem with a little more?
This SETTLEMENT will never be Fair and Reasonable, because of the time it is taking, and the lack of clarity throughout. Many can't afford to wait for the payday, if there is to be one. The fact that we have no clue after 7 years, says it all about this SETTLEMENT, and our Reps.
And why not then, put forth a false premise to those who did release, and get them believing in something that does not exist
False premise?…They weren't the ones who promised Fair and Reasonable. They are just trying to find F&R in the millions of pages of legalese, because our Reps don't tell us chit…
Being a SETTLEMENT Stock creates expectations, and people will hold longer to wait for the reward, despite how vague. Especially, when promised F&R. Not only has this settlement paid garbage so far, but the opportunity costs have been tremendous.
You and other's preach patience. At what point do we demand results…1 year, 2 years, 3..4..5..6 years?…7….I don't know, you tell me?….
Collectively, we do. S/G could do it if a different approach was taken.
If we have to sue anyone after 7 years to get OUR money, than it seems to me that S&G was part of the problem, and not part of any solution…Our Reps have been protecting the criminals…And all have been rewarded…Us?..not so much…
Frankly, the latest quarterly report giving NOTHING, but the millions in professional fees, is so absurd, it's making me more optimistic of a secret deal and Escrow $…No lawsuits…Potential 6 month delay on D&O appeal, thus further delay...more professional fees…And the only potential we do see is for peanuts....
It's as if they aren't even trying for us…and the handshake was made long ago..
Or maybe they aren't trying, and believe this is all Fair and Reasonable…If so, enough of us have been wronged, and collectively we will get us some discovery….
The longer it takes…
The greater the risk the Rats have of getting caught…
One good lawyer can tear this corrupted plan down, and send the criminals packing. He only has to be smarter and more motivated than Edgar….
To you, JPM CFO, and to you Centerbridge Partner…and all your ilk..Are you that above the law?..
or
Do we have any laws?, and are they only meant for us?…..
To you deaf, dumb and blind kid WillyJam….To them it's a game…and you decided to play…
To us, it's retirement $, college funds, food and water, etc…
Each day no Fair and Reasonable, is a day closer to discovery….And you would make a damn fine scapegoat for the Rats….
Once they began to make deals, they became complicit in the activities.
Bingo…Our Reps strategy of playing along with the Rats, instead of exposing them has brought…
1) Less than Fair and Reasonable so far….(begging for discovery/lawsuit..)
2) No/little money…..Everyone has been paid handsomely but us…including our Reps…..
3) No Info…We are in the dark and helped bury the bodies for peanuts so far….
4) No lawsuits...We need the Rats for WMIH success ..(Rating Agencies, Goldman…etc…)..Those we should be suing instead...
5) Market Manipulation…($2.20 WMIH)…Really?…The Rats keep taking at our expense…WillyJam will not even let this get to true market value…7 years later…
6) A regressive settlement…Will only benefit those able to "hold on", that need it least, if there is no Escrow payout...
I can unfortunately keep going but won't….
NO DISTRIBUTIONS WILL BE MADE TO HOLDERS OF LTIs ON FEBRUARY 2, 2015
I fail to see the "good news" in the WMILT statement today. Another quarter goes by with no money and no clarity. I find it disgraceful, after staggering "professional" fees and YEARS, that we still have so many loose ends (D&O appeal, Marta and employee claims etc.). Maybe this is the "plan", and it's good news as some say, and I love my Escrows more and more.
Maybe WillyJam will get the marbles out of his mouth and say something…
After 3 long years in court, why would our Reps agree to a Settlement that is taking upwards of 4 more years to pay "Fair and Reasonable"..if at all.
7 years and a structured investment (WMIH), suitable for "Sophisticated Investors" (Industry term with minimum net worth, expertise, etc.) is ok for the likes of the deep pocketed David Tepper and Appaloosa, but not at all appropriate for Retail. Especially when they know the plan, not us.
We watch in amazement when good news finally arrives, our 600mm cash infusion, but in a format which guarantees price suppression until the M&A. This 20 day ($1.75 - $2.25) average thingy, also shows that we have been manipulated down in price for a year by the boyz to give themselves a nice entry point. All on a non-sanctioned trading platform as per our BOD.
WillyJam..you have let the Rats get enough….It's our turn...
If we get something, great! If we get nothing, life goes on
If we get nothing, then it wasn't Fair and reasonable was it?…
And nobody would need whipping up to sue our Reps, just a brain..
I THINK
That buying WMIH here is a good idea too...
But, I thought a Global settlement was really Global…and Hochberg had to be honest…and the Judge was truly honorable?..and I also owned a lot pre seizure…etc…..
So don't follow me…..
E
Maybe they need to tell us one more time. Go home. You lost. in English...because we are obviously too "retail stupid" to get it.
We think theres gotta be something hidden somewhere…It doesn't make sense otherwise.
yeah , i get the attitude that we are lucky to have survived …but…they are REALLY LUCKY that they aren't in prison, and those releases gotta be worth something.
Certainly more than the very certain $2.20...
Another in a series of "I don't get its?"
Our Reps know the huge Escrow debate, and WIDE range of expected outcomes. Zero to Hero.
Because WMIH is anchored @ $2.20, it's unfortunately all we talk about here and there…
Why don't they have a "State of the Escrow"…and let those they "represent" have a clue what they own. Even if zero payout, or if in future or whatever the F it is…Where we don't have to hire a lawyer to decipher.
Do you think the hedgies have their Escrows marked at zero on their books like we do?..Not unless they really are worth zero…
My point is, everyone knows Escrow value but us, and it's kinda cruel that they let the debate go on...
One of these milestones will be the one, and ultimately pay off.
It's why we are all still here…
well maybe not all of us...
If it were going to take 3+ years for any meaningful recovery…After already 3 years of court…
it wouldn't be a Fair and Reasonable settlement…Many will have had to sell,unable to participate…Because of life circumstances, or because of the uncertainty with the utter lack of communication.
Six years from bankruptcy
3 Years from "more than Fair and Reasonable"
WAMUQ = 5+ cents……Escrow goose egg...
The Only news we get from our mute/mutant BOD are office space lease arrangements…
All while waiting for the next milestone to arrive, hoping AZ + LG read better than I do......
Fair and Reasonable or Fairly Disgusting?..
Bkshadow is saying what he always says…
That Escrows are F'ed…
Testy…Testy…
We are directing Years of frustration at each other, instead of the correct parties, as we are WAY Overdue on $, and INFORMATION..
Post bankruptcy, we have allowed our Reps to continue under the cloak of darkness. No Escrow accounting, no asset lists, etc...All well, as long as there are results.. Problem is, we aren't seeing any.
We give our children leeway, until they bring home F's. Then we get involved. Here, we have already given YEARS. If nothing comes from the next series of milestones (Employee claims, FDIC reconciliation), we should begin the discovery process. Time to check their workload.
What do our Reps know? Who are they are continuing to protect?
What information did they have that would compel them to call it a Fair and Reasonable Recovery?
Who knows what goodies we may find?…………..
Everyone has their guess on Escrow value, and their own reasoning behind it. They are guesses, because as we have seen here, anything can happen. Fair or not, legal or not. The only one's who know the outcome were in the room.
Based on conversations throughout the years with some of our representation, I have always been lukewarm on Escrow. Never getting the impression that our reps got the 5th amendment and private property, or cared. Blamed me for not foreseeing the fdic actions…"they are allowed, you know" type attitude. "What about justice for JPM?" etc.. They never gave me confidence that they were looking out for our best interests..
LG, Thanks to your stellar due diligence, and the research of other's, my eyes have opened to the Possibility of payout through FDIC-R. If the right thing is done by FDIC, and that's what was agreed to by our Reps, the legal framework is set up for us all to be golden.
I have come to Like my Escrows.. Just want them to realize their potential already…And stop giving me that empty stare from my Account page...
The better question is, where would we be without Nate Thoma?
WillyJam's lack of communication and results speak for themselves..
There is absolutely no reason after all these YEARS to be in the dark, and guessing to the degree we have to here.