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Westeffer, this is the Dutchess financing I was referring to. Another stock to look at is OCOL.pk which entered into a Dutchess financing package very similar to this one around the same time as MDGC. I don't think it is just a coincidence that both stocks have suffered large share price drops since these financing packages were introduced. When you look at OCOL and what happened to its stock price, keep in mind that OCOL actually never even sold one single share of stock to Dutchess. The financing was never even used, but the share price still collapsed. Not really surprising, because like I said before these types of financings don't even have to be used and they can still cause havoc on a stock:
<<<<< NOTE 17 - SUBSEQUENT EVENTS
Equity Line of Credit
Subsequent to the quarter ended September 30, 2007, the Company entered into an Investment Agreement with Dutchess Private Equities Fund, Ltd. (the “Investor”). Pursuant to this Agreement, the Investor shall commit to purchase up to $15,000,000 of the Company’s common stock over the course of 36 months. The amount that the Company is entitled to request from each purchase (“Puts”) shall be equal to, at the Company’s election, either (i) up to $500,000 or (ii) 200% of the average daily trading volume of the common stock for the ten trading days prior to the applicable Put Notice Date (as defined in the Investment Agreement). The Put Date shall be the date that the Investor receives a put notice of a draw down by the Company. The purchase price shall be set at 93% of the lowest closing Best Bid price (as defined in the Investment Agreement) of the common stock during the pricing period. The pricing period shall be the five trading days after the Put Notice Date. >>>>>
http://knobias.10kwizard.com/filing.php?param=&ipage=5282425&DSEQ=1&SEQ=&SQDESC=SECTION_BODY&exp=
Westeffer, on the face of it, MDGC might look interesting but the one thing that scared me off from this stock when I looked at it many months ago was the company's financing condition. Before going to the pink sheets, the company's filings show that MDGC had one of those toxic equity lines of credit with Dutchess. I haven't seen anyone on these boards talk about this, and I don't know if the company has said anything about it, but if this floorless equity financing arrangement with Dutchess still exists it would probably explain a lot of things. Even if there are no draw downs on these types of financings they tend to have a depressing effect on stocks.
SmallCAPFundNYC, if GTHR is serious about mergering or acquiring a Nasdaq company then extra caution is needed on just how high of a price you are willing to pay for this stock. At $1 GTHR already has a fully-diluted market cap over $75 million. Any merger or acquisition with a Nasdaq company will cause more scrutiny of the preferred stock overhang and possibly draw more attention to the overvalution of the stock. GTHR is already being valued at more than twice that of Bioniche Life Science, the Canadian company that already has a large revenue stream and has an ECOLI vaccine that is approved in Canada and is expected to receive FDA approval.
http://www.bioniche.com/
NXGB .011 x .017 Only 20,000 shares traded at .008 and bid has been upticking on no volume.
NXGB .004 x .005, getting some volume this week. Apparently a name change or RM in the works that hasn't been press released or hit the daily list yet. Doesn't look like many people are aware of it yet:
http://www1.investorvillage.com/smbd.asp?mb=14452&mn=14&pt=msg&mid=5988451
mythbuster, your statement "If the co executes, we all make money, simple" is only true if the terms of the preferred share do not overly dilute and do not overly favor management or whoever owns the preferred. Until the company discloses the current and exact number of ALL preferred shares, the conversion rate, and any special clauses and treatments, then you don't really know for sure whether SIVC at .005 is a good deal or not. Which is why you need to know as much as possible about the fully-diluted share structure and details on any special classes of shares, and to see all of that in writing. Since the company seems to have made it clear that it intends to distribute shares of the mergers to its shareholders (which means the value of those merger shares will not remain in the SIVC vehicle), I think it is important to make certain that the preferred shareholders are not going to receive any special treatment.
mythbuster, whether SIVC is undervalued or overvalued depends on information that the company still has not produced. It is very difficult for any investor to properly value this stock when the company has not disclosed how many preferred shares exist and the conversion terms of the preferred. If it turns out the conversion rate is very high, then SIVC looks much less attractive. I would be especially concerned if it turns out that the preferred shares have any special treatment regarding the proposed stock dividends of the reverse merger companies. If there are special clauses on those preferred, SIVC could turn out to be an ugly situation for the common share holders.
stushy, if Ed told you there will be no dilution to shareholders, here is my suggestion to you: Call Ed back, and ask him if current FRTL shareholders will experience any dilution on a FULLY-DILUTED basis (that includes any convertible preferred or separate classes of stock). Let him know you are tape recording the conversation, and request that he also send you an email with his response to this question.
My bet is that you will get a very different response to your question. The only way I can see that there will be no dilution to current shareholders is if the preferred shares Ed acquired from the shell owner are not convertible and Ed moves Envit into the FRTL on a free basis. Somehow I doubt that Ed (a hedge fund manager) is going to give away is company to FRTL shareholders for nothing.
Rainmaker, instead of just laughing off everything I post about, maybe you should try reading things a little closer and do a little more thinking. Maybe I'm not as dumb as you seem to think I am.
trailblazin, well in case you hadn't noticed but Rainmaker's picks get posted all over Ihub. I look at just about anything that might show some potential. So when I see someone post that FRTL has done a reverse merger with a hedge fund and there are only 30 million shares outstanding, well that gets your attention. But then after looking closer at FRTL I realize that Rainmaker's DD doesn't include some very important information, namely the fact that he doesn't know what the fully-diluted share structure looks like and he apparently doesn't seem to really care what it is and just keeps pumping up the "30 million shares outstanding" statement. So I point out this fact and caution people, and I am the one who gets private messages telling me my thoughts are no longer welcome.
Like I said I like to look beyond just the "everything's rosy" posts. Sometimes it means I miss out on some money, but it also means that sometimes I will not get trapped in some bad investment. DD just isn't about looking for good things. For example, Rainmaker posted on the OSCR board about Kenneth Orr and his Triumph Small Cap fund being involved with OSCR and Rubin. Something that Rain seemed to leave off from his DD on Orr is the following information:
>>>>>>>> On November 10, 1999 the Securities and Exchange Commission filed a civil action in federal district court against Kenneth Orr, the President of the Reporting Person, and sixteen other defendants, charging Mr. Orr with violations of Section 17(a) of the Securities Act of 1933 and Section 10(b) of the Exchange Act of 1934 (SEC v. Curtis, et al., 99 Civ 7357 (E.D.N.Y)(“Curtis”). On September 13, 2002, the United States Court for the Eastern District of New York entered a Final Judgment of Permanent Injunction and Other Relief as to Mr. Orr in Curtis, permanently enjoining Orr from future violations of Section 17(a) of the Securities Act, and Section 10(b) of the Exchange Act and Rule 10b-5 thereunder, ordering Orr to disgorge $55,000 in ill-gotten gains, approximately $44,000 in prejudgment interest, and post-judgment interest, and ordering Orr to pay a civil penalty of $55,000. Orr consented to the entry of the final judgment without admitting or denying the allegations in the Commission's Complaint. Additionally, on January 3, 2002, Orr pleaded guilty to one count of conspiracy to launder money. United States v. Orr, 99 CR 1019 (E.D.N.Y). On May 21, 2002, a judgment in the criminal case was entered against Orr. He was sentenced to three years of probation and ordered to pay a $3,000 fine. In December 2004, Mr. Orr consented to the entry of an Order Making Findings and Imposing Remedial Sanctions pursuant to Section 15(b) of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934. In connection therewith, Mr. Orr was barred from association with any broker or dealer, without reapplying. Any reapplication or reentry by Mr. Orr will be subject to applicable laws and regulations. Mr. Orr has determined not to reapply or seek reentry. <<<<<<<<<<<
http://knobias.10kwizard.com/filing.php?param=&ipage=5394586&DSEQ=1&SEQ=&SQDESC=SECTION_BODY&exp=
Rainmaker, seriously you need to wake up. Why can't you understand the concept of fully-diluted valuation? It really isn't that complicated.
Whether Ed issues himself common shares or convertible preferred shares doesn't make any difference when you examine the FULLY-DILUTED marketcap. This is just common sense. Like I said in other posts, the kind of thinking you are displaying with regards to preferred shares versus common shares is how investors buy a stock because they think it has an attractive $20 million valuation and don't realize that the preferred shares actually give the stock a $2 billion valuation. People can lose their shirts on those kinds of mistakes.
Rainmaker, your comment about "just trying to make sure people were prepared just in case" is almost laughable. You just brushed off my attempts last month to prepare people for the possibility of a reverse split. Now that you have sold your position you suddenly feel a need to prepare people. You should have been doing this last month.
How many times last month did I try to point out to you that you needed to focus on what the possible fully-diluted share structure would look like? This is the kind of thing that I warned you about. A lot of the unspoken ill will that people have toward you and the stock now could have been avoided if you had simply been upfront with people like I suggested. But you and others didn't want to hear it, and just kept wanting people to believe that there were only 30 million shares outstanding after completion of the merger.
It also doesn't help matters when you now admit that you knew the information about the reverse split over the weekend, but you didn't provide this information until today. People don't easily forget these types of questionable ethics.
Rainmaker, yes you could be absolutely correct about those preferred shares being part of a private placement. But OSCR will need to show a very high level of cash on the books to justify a fully-diluted market cap as high as this. Probably in the neighborhood of at least 20 or 30 million dollars. I have my doubts and would prefer to wait and see what the numbers are in a filing.
Once again I am shocked at how ignorant you are about how to properly value a stock. To say that everyone should just ignore the 25 million preferred (convert into 75 million common) when valuing the company is just plain stupid. They are part of the fully-diluted valuation. Every penny increase in the stock is a $800,000 increase in the fully-diluted market cap.
That is how you determine the real value of a company. Plain and simple. Maybe Rubin will work some magic and this will be one of his investments that reward the common shareholders, but starting off with this high of fully-diluted market cap automatically makes it harder.
timmage, I didn't realize that someone had to make a pick or make a call to contribute to IHUB message boards. I realize that many people on IHUB actively discourage any posting that is considered "negative", but I like to know as much as possible about any stock that looks like it might have potential. Not just all the positive, feel-good things.
Rainmaker, that filing may make people feel all good and happy, but the problem here is one of valuation. When you sit down and run the numbers, you have a fully-diluted shell with a market cap over $40 million. That is just the valuation of the empty OSCR shell at 50 cents. Very expensive shell, unless Rubin is planning on moving assets into the shell at zero cost to OSCR.
I don't see anything in the filing that explicitly states that Rubin can't do a reverse split to get to the 50 cent level. Some of the investors in these preferred shares are also investors in some of the poorly performing public companies that Rubin is connected to. Considering these investors appear to have a zero cost basis in the OSCR preferred, and the very expensive fully-diluted valuation on the shell, I think there is a great deal of risk in buying OSCR at these levels.
Rainmaker, maybe I'm missing something but I think a lot of people are too star-struck by Rubin because of his founding and sale of Lifetime Health. I don't know if you have actually monitored the performances of the public companies he has been involved in since Lifetime, but the words "lackluster" and "dreadful" come to mind.
In the IBOX you make a special mention of SLTN and its nearly 90 cent share price. But I couldn't help but notice that you left out some very important info about SLTN which most people would probably like to know right up front: Rubin did a reverse split on that reverse merger and the stock has not performed very well since the merger.
Rubin's magic touch hasn't seemed to work wonders on very many of the public companies so far. Just think a little caution is warranted here.
Rainmaker, this will be my final post on the subject because as I said earlier today it has been made very clear to me that my continued posting about this subject is no longer welcome.
By the questions and statements you made in this post, I can see you (and almost everyone who is posting about this stock) truly have no understanding how these types of mergers are constructed and how to properly evaluate them. It really is shocking to see how you (and so many others) can't seem to understand the concept of "fully-diluted market cap".
To see yourself and others continue to believe (or pretend) that preferred shares are nothing to worry about is simply amazing, especially when so many investors before you have taken similar attitudes and suffered as a result. Convertible preferred shares are a material part of the fully-diluted valuation whether they are eventually converted or not, and they can't be brushed aside by investors as if they don't exist.
Like I have said before: FRTL could turn out to be a good investment or a bad one. Nobody really knows for sure if they are getting a good deal or not when they purchase FRTL because the details of the fully-diluted share structure and company fundamentals are not yet available.
One thing I am certain about is that many of the attitudes and basic investor ignorance of merger structures I have been seeing on this stock are eerily similar to those types of situations that did not turn out well.
>>>As soon as anyone has verified numbers for this of course we'll add it to the ibox. Thanks for the great suggestion, have a nice day.<<<<<<<
Rainmaker, you don't need verified numbers before you put this information in the IBOX and in your DD posts. Simply put an asterick by the outstanding shares number and mention that you don't know what the final, fully-diluted share structure looks like, that you are aware of the existence of preferred shares, that you don't know how many preferred shares exist, and that you don't know the conversion terms of the preferred shares.
Instead of continuing to highlight and pump the fact that there are 30 million shares outstanding when you know full well that the fully-diluted number could be much higher than that, you should just be upfront with people. It could save you a lot of grief and embarassment in the long run if things turn ugly.
Rainmaker, if you simply put this information about the preferred shares in the IBOX and in your DD posts you would not have to waste time responding to posters like Wayne R who are wondering about it. Your continued failure to make this kind of information highly visible to any newcomers to this stock speaks volumes about your ethics, if you ask me. For your sake I hope the deal structure turns out ok and everybody makes money, because if it doesn't you could end up with a whole lot of people really ticked off looking for someone to blame. The first people they are going to point fingers at are the ones who kept underscoring the 30 million shares outstanding while ignoring the potential dilution from the preferred.
I think it is interesting that Wayne seems to be about the only other person who expressed the least bit of concern about how the final share structure will look like, the size of any reverse split, etc. I wonder if Wayne will be receiving any "Stop talking about the preferred shares" and "Zip your lip" messages?
>>>Idaho ~ The dumbest thing I have heard is being up near 290% since Rainmaker started posting his DD and worrying about preferred shares.<<<<<<<<
I don't see what point you are trying to make tonight by giving some examples of previous posts where I talked about preferred shares. All of those posts you cited are examples of why it is important to know as much as possible about the stock you are getting into.
In one of those posts I was responding to someone who claimed that a stock's preferred shares had all expired. The fact is those shares had not expired and were still very much a liability that still to this day has not been addressed.
In one of those posts I mentioned the fact that the preferred shares actually were of a floorless convertible nature (the most toxic financing). People had been posting about how cheap and attractive the stock looked, but nobody had bothered to actually read through the filings and notice the toxic feature on the preferreds.
In another of those posts I was talking about DVPC, an oil and gas company, and pointing out the fact that nobody seemed to know exactly what were the terms of the $10 million debt that the company owed to the CEO. People on that board were doing almost the same type of thing that people on this board are doing. On the DVPC board people were citing the company's low market cap, while conveniently ignoring the $10 million in debt. People there defended the CEO, brushed aside his failure to disclose the terms of the debt, and thought I was crazy for worrying about the unknown terms of the debt and for pointing out the fact that you can't just ignore $10 million in debt when you try to value the company. The funny thing about DVPC is all of the people who thought I was crazy have now turned on the CEO after the SEC revoked the stock's registration.
>>>>>This never happened it's a made up scenario you created. Once again you are trying to mix theories with facts. Fact is FRTL marketcap is $900,000. If and when the available facts change then traders like myself will re-evaluate. Also, if and when your scenario ever develops, who is to say Envit won't have made enough aquisitions to justify a higher market cap by then.<<<<<
I think my attempts at possible scenarios for the final share structure are probably more productive for the average investor than when you try to compare FRTL's non fully-diluted market capitalization as a shell to other public hedge stocks while conveniently not including the possibility of any dilution as a result of the preferred shares.
Yes, it is true that FRTL has a market cap of $900,000, but again that doesn't reflect the "true" valuation of the company which likely is much higher than that because the numbers you based your market cap figure on do not include any preferred shares acquired by Edward and they do not include any preferred shares issued to actually acquire Envit.
I'm just saying if you and others are going to insist on posting that FRTL has only 30 million shares outstanding and a market cap under $1 million, then you should at the very least in the same posts acknowledge the fact that you aware that some preferred shares exist, that you don't know how many exist, and that you don't know the conversion rate of these shares. Maybe some investors might like having this kind of information acknowledged up front in any due diligence posts that get spread around IHUB rather than just seeing only the information that portrays the stock in just the best possible light. You can acknowledge that the CEO told you that the shell investors are going to make out great on this stock, but you should also acknowledge that a lot of CEOs say things like that and until you actually see the final numbers you really don't know for sure what you are buying into.
That doesn't seem like too much to ask, does it?
Rainmaker, are you serious????? So when you value a company you only look at what the market cap is and pay absolutely zero attention to what the fully-diluted market cap is??????? A fully-diluted market cap is the only way an investor can truly judge what the fair value of an investment should be. Just ask all those Mark Cuban shell investors who thought they were buying a Cuban-owned shell for something like $10 million, but in reality were buying into a shell valued at something like $150 million (not to mention those investors who were buying into it at a $400 million market capitalization).
I'm almost at a loss for words. Your stance regarding preferred shares is just one of the dumbest things I think I have ever seen. I don't know if you have much experience with shells that have used preferred shares to help complete a merger, but if you have had experience with them I don't think you would be making the kinds of statements that you are now making.
It is just ridiculous to claim that preferred shares should be just ignored when calculating the fully-diluted market cap of a stock. This is the "real" value of a stock, hence the term "fully-diluted". If Edward files an 8-k and it shows 30 million shares outstanding and preferred shares convertible into the equivalent to an additional more than 1 billion common shares, you can not possibly sit there with a straight face and tell everyone to ignore the preferred shares and just focus on the 30 million shares outstanding. To do so would be nothing short of absurd thinking.
I'm not saying that there might not be money to be made in FRTL just based on a momentum play or eventually on a valuation play if the numbers come in ok, but I'm just saying it is wise to get a better idea of just exactly what you are investing in. Instead of proclaiming that FRTL is the best reverse merger you have ever seen it might be wise to tone that statement down a little until you get some confirmation of what the final fully-diluted share structure looks like. Too many people are trying to base their investment in FRTL solely on some share numbers that may not be telling the whole story right now. Yes people could lose out on good money if the numbers turn out ok, but a lot of people can also end up getting hurt if the numbers don't turn out well.
Rainmaker, your post #497 is a perfect example of what I have been talking about. Nowhere in all of the facts you compiled about FRTL did you acknowledge that Edward owns preferred shares nor do you mention anything about any preferred shares that may have issued in the acquisition of Envit. In post #498 you state that FRTL has a market cap of $900,000, but again you don't mention anything about the preferred shares acquired by Edward, nor do you mention anything about preferred shares that may have been issued to acquire Envit.
It is as if nobody wants to acknowledge that the "real" outstanding share number is actually higher than the 30 million that keeps being emphasized in IHUB posts.
Unless I missed something somewhere, nowhere in any of your posts about FRTL did you ever acknowledge the existence of preferred shares until I brought up the subject. To pretend as if preferred shares don't exist here or that they are not important in valuing FRTL could end up being hazardous to many investors financial health if the details of the merger turn out to be less than favorable.
You stated that you looked at 100 crap deals before you found this gem. You based your analysis of FRTL without knowing almost anything about what the final share structure will look like. Maybe it is a gem, but it could also be just another one of the unattractive deals you looked at if the share structure doesn't turn out to be good.
>>>>>lmaooooooooooo 1.5 billion shares?? Where and how could you ever come to that # with what we have lol<<<<<<
Common sense math. If you assume that FRTL will be similar to most other reverse mergers, the original shell holders will own about 5-10% of the new company (Envit Capital).
62 million fully-diluted
divided by .05= 1.24 billion
62 million fully-diluted
divided by .10= 620 million
My gut feeling is that the shell owners will probably get less than 5%, but that is just my gut feeling.
>>>>Where do you get 62 million O/S from? Why that number? Until it is proven otherwise (according to pinksheets) there are 30 million O/S and 40 million A/S<<<<<
According to the IBOX above there are 30.624 million outstanding. If you go back to the last quarterly filings a few years back you will also find that same number. There is no record of any reverse split being done so that means the guy that acquired controlling interest in FRTL from the courts gave himself the common share equivalent of at least 30.625 million in preferred shares to gain control of the shell. That works out to be the equivalent of 61.25 million outstanding, so I rounded it up to 62.
That is why it is important not to ignore preferred shares. The "real" outstanding share count is double the number you keep seeing people posting on IHUB boards. I've seen this happen way too many times on these penny stocks. People are deliberately ignoring the preferred shares to make the stock look cheaper and this is what can get investors in trouble. One time on some Chinese reverse merger I pointed out to some people that the low PE $20 million company they thought they were buying had a "real" market capitalization of $2 billion due to preferred shares and an impending reverse split. I ended up getting some nasty private messages blaming me for the collapse in the share price and if I had just kept my mouth shut the share price would have kept going up. I don't know about anyone else, but I would like to know as much as I can about some penny stock and not just all the "rosy" things.
It is also the reason why it is so important to find out the amount and terms of any preferred shares issued to acquire Envit Capital. This could be a cheap stock, or it could be horribly overvalued. Nobody knows until the full details get revealed in an 8-k.
>>>>With O/S of 30 million and A/S of 40 million there is no need to do R/S.. If the stock had a billion shares O/S, then maybe...<<<<<
thommygun88, if I had to take a guess as to what the final share structure looks like I would not be surprised at all to see more than the equivalent of 1.5 billion shares outstanding. The odds that Edward will do a reverse split are almost 100% in my opinion. That is just a guess on my part because Edward hasn't filed an 8-k yet, but I think it is a logical guess.
I know full well this is not what people want to hear or see posted, but people need to be aware of everything here to better judge their investment. One of the best ways of losing your shirt in the penny market is too ignore the impact that preferred shares can have on a stock. Several years ago when Mark Cuban (the billionaire owner of the Dallas Mavericks) purchased a shell people got all excited about and thought they were getting a good deal. When I pointed out to them that the real valuation of the shell they were buying was 10 times higher than they thought due to Cuban's preferred shares, I received many public and private messages telling me I didn't know what I was talking about and to just shut up and let the momentum carry the stock higher. After the share price collapsed, those same investors never acknowledged I was right.
FRTL could very well continue higher on momentum or valuation. But until Edward produces an 8-k that provides full details on the merger, nobody knows for certain what the fully-diluted shares will look like. We do know from Rainmaker's talk with the CEO that Edward purchased control of the shell through preferred shares. So we know that fully-diluted the shares outstanding must be at least about 62 million now. What we don't know is how many preferred shares were issued to acquire Envit Capital and what their conversion rate is, if that is the way the deal was done.
When people keep posting that there is only 30 million shares out, they are only giving part of the story.
Rainmaker, the problem here is that until Edward produces a filing that explains exactly what the share structure looks like following the conclusion of the merger there is a possibility of buying into a shell that could be overvalued by a large margin.
My concern here is that in a typical reverse merger the original share holders usually get around 5-10% of the new company. If that turns out to be the case in this situation, there could be the equivalent of anywhere from 620 million to 1.24 billion shares outstanding. I've seen a lot of situations where preferred shares are used in the mergers and it tends to mask the true valuations of companies, and things can turn ugly in a hurry.
Rainmaker, thanks. To get a better fix on the valuation: If the preferred shares are convertible on a 1:1 basis, that would result in about 62 million shares outstanding. The question then becomes under what terms was Envit Capital moved into the shell if the merger is already done. Was it done free of charge (meaning no futher dilution) or were additional preferred shares issued and what is the conversion rate?
Rainmaker, the lack of details about this merger creates some enormous risks, don't you think? When you talked with the CEO did he provide you with any info about what the share structure will look like after the deal is done and what size of reverse split he is looking at?
The share count the CEO provided in his filing is the same amount that the company has been showing for years, so unless he acquired a huge amount of the existing shares free of charge and he moved Envit Capital into the shell free of charge, then the merger hasn't actually taken place yet. Since there has been no 8-k filing showing he has purchased the shell and no 8-k filing showing that the shell has actually acquired Envit it seems like there is a lot of unknowns that need to be addressed. This one could have potential, but it could also become a disaster depending on how the deal is structured.
OTC BB King, interesting posts from other boards:
http://www.investorvillage.com/smbd.asp?mb=7580&mn=113&pt=msg&mid=4673132
http://www.investorvillage.com/smbd.asp?mb=14452&clear=1&pt=m
Doubloon, did Adam from WDRP give you any idea of who the new management will be? What I find scary about this stock is seeing the website is registered to a "Andrea N Cortellazzi". Any relation to the infamous Andrea M Cortellazzi?
http://www.networksolutions.com/whois/results.jsp?domain=wanderportmining.com
clairmontasap, the problem with contacting DVPC is that you can't get a very simple, but highly important, piece of factual information. What are the EXACT terms of the $10 million in debt the company owes the CEO?
Apparently no one who contacts the CEO has been able to find out this information. Westeffer said he asked the CEO to provide this information. But that has been a LONG time ago now and the CEO continues to drag his feet on this. How hard is it to simply tell everyone in a press release or put up a copy of the debt note on the website? But month after month after month goes by and the CEO can't seem to get this done. It is ridiculous that he hasn't provided this very basic piece of information.
How can anyone properly judge the value of this stock when no one has any idea of what the EXACT terms of the financing are?
westeffer, why is it that whenever someone calls Salna they never bother to get any specifics on this "note" he says he has created? It is great that he has put up a huge amount of money from his own pocket, but any investor in DVPC needs to know the EXACT details of this note before they can have any idea of what this stock is worth. Like I said before, there should be no reason that Salna can't take the time to post a copy of this note agreement on the company's website so potential investors can see the terms of the debt in writing. Doesn't anybody else find it strange that a lot of the investors here treat this $10 million debt note like it is just nothing to be concerned about? Maybe there is a very good reason the stock is selling for 4 cents, and maybe the clue could be found in that debt agreement. But none of us apparently will ever know because it doesn't appear that Salna wants to be proactive in distributing information about the specifics of this debt.
>>>I also can't believe that type of comment from some anonymous poster when Robert has put $10 million of his own money into DVPC. He sure didn't dilute to fund the huge amount of cash infushion, but created a note. Salna has income of at least $50 million a year. Why would someone like him resort to penny ante tactics like the poster alleges.<<<<
While I'm not a fan of HKBV or its CEO, it is kind of ironic that hridge has not made any form 3 or 4 filings. The shareholder who is accusing Larry of not following proper procedures has himself apparently failed to file proper documentation of his purchases and total holdings as required by the SEC. hridge probably should get his own house in order before pointing too many fingers at Larry. By filing a complaint with the SEC, he probably has inadvertently exposed himself to inquiries from the SEC regarding his lack of filings. Careful where you shine the spotlight because it just might shine back on you.
Westeffer, you are missing the point. This debt issue to the CEO isn't something that should be taken lightly or just swept under the rug. It has a DIRECT effect on what kind of valuation should be placed on DVPC. I have seen people posting about how low a market cap DVPC has compared to its assets to show how cheap DVPC is and what a great investment DVPC is, but in fairness shouldn't these same people also acknowledge in these same posts that the company owes the CEO at least $10 million?
In your conversations with the CEO has he also informed you of the EXACT terms of this debt (interest rate, payment schedule, etc)? Maybe it would be in the best interest of everyone involved here (both the shareholders and the CEO) if the CEO posted the entire debt agreement on the company website so everyone can see the EXACT terms of this note in writing. I don't mean this to sound skeptical of the specific CEO but as you are well aware from your experience with pink sheet stocks over the last couple of years CEOs can say or do just about anything and not get held accountable because they don't have to file regularly with the SEC. If the CEO of DVPC has some type of note or debt agreement with the company, then he shouldn't have any problem with putting it up on the website so everyone can see the terms and get a better idea of what is going on regarding his funding of the company.
<<<I don't get it, people bitching about some debt funded by the CEO with no dilution.....peanuts market cap with growing proven reserves of $15-30 million in the ground>>>
Westeffer, the problem with DVPC is that there may be dilution of the company that investors simply are not seeing yet. It is great that the rich CEO is funding the company, BUT has he ever told anyone how he expects to get repaid all the money he is putting into this company? Is he just GIVING the money to the company and expects to make it all up by an increase in the share price of his current stock ownership? Is he loaning the money to the company (what are the repayment terms)? Getting preferred shares (what are the conversion terms)?
I have read a lot of the posts here, but nobody who talks with the CEO ever seems to bring this subject up. It is the big unanswered question here. Maybe the stock just LOOKS cheap because all the CEO money hasn't been factored into the share count yet, or the company is loaded down with huge debt that needs to be repaid to the CEO.
SSP, IYSA, the price could take a hit as a result of the screw up by management. If I am looking at things right, IYSA didn't do the reverse split PRIOR to executing the acquisition which means it has exceeded its authorized shares. At the very least I would think they will need to unwind the acquisition and make some amended filings. I would be worried about a halt in trading if this isn't fixed quickly.
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=24799755
Major screw up by management here. IYSA is claiming that the acquisition has been completed, but in fact that can not be true since the reverse split was to have been completed BEFORE the closing of the agreement with the Chinese company. They have really made themselves a mess by not doing things in the order they were supposed to have been done. By not doing the reverse split first, and now claiming they have completed the acquisition by giving the Chinese company some 90 million shares, IYSA currently has almost twice as many outstanding shares as their authorized shares permit. This was a flat-out boneheaded move by management.
OMRX, .025 x .04, financials too ugly for me but does have interesting athlete, sports team, and Kathy Smith connections. CEO has exercised options at higher prices. Maybe a momo group will run it someday.
http://www.orthometrix.net/
NXGB, Holy Cow, follow all of the links and replies to this RB post. Nice website for NXGB. I tried to lowball some bids when SSP posted about the split, but never got any shares. Tried to save some pennies and missed out on big money. Crap.
http://ragingbull.quote.com/mboard/boards.cgi?board=SHELL&read=8710
930,000 at .063? Somebody going to make some good coin on that forward split:
http://ragingbull.quote.com/mboard/boards.cgi?board=CSKI&read=52