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Oh Tex, one more thing: There is NO global lock on BCIT - Go to UBS's site and take a look,,, ain't there.
Tex: I thought about that a year or so ago and it seems to me the brokers would come out better (financially) by encouraging the SEC and others to put it back on the board.
Keep in mind that I'm not a financial weenie, I'm just a guy that's burned too many brain cells on this mess:
The downside: Every day-trader on the planet is watching and begging for a chance to play. Obviously this will contribute to the short squeeze of a lifetime (betcha haven't heard that before) - Two independent (and paid) financial analysts ran the numbers on this (about) 2 years ago and those numbers were mind boggling. We all know there's no mathematical equation that can predict these numbers, they basically used empirical data,,, and SWAG (Scientific Wild Ass Guess). AND I'll bet they're close.
The upside: The brokers have the knowledge, technology and moral turpitude to play this in there favor. In a nutshell; they can manipulate trading over a period of time that will allow them to buy relatively cheap, sell a few while the price runs, drive (manipulate) the price back down, buy more, etc. . . With many brokers and MM's helping each other, they could rather quickly buy back their short and wash their hands of the whole deal.
They would save coin and face by choosing this route - Again, I'm just a guy.
Yep, I've had few go away as well. . . I spoke poorly of that numbskull pretending to be a shareholder and it vanished.
Yeah, well a funny thing just happened (as in JUST NOW): She may very well have been told to stand-down and with this new development --- That stand-down order may remain in effect. We'll see soon enough.
You should be able to sue for any quantity of shares, just as you can request a certificate for any number of shares. In other words: If you own 1000 shares of google, you can request a certificate for 500 shares and leave 500 in street name, regardless of how many transactions it took to accumulate your holdings.
You will, however, have to send a demand letter. Write a letter, demand a certificate for the number of shares you want and add the punitive damages - Send the letter register mail and "return receipt requested". File 30 days after they sign for letter and you should be golden. . .
***As earlier stated - Run EVERYTHING through CH***
OK H: Why not sue the market makers? I don't have a contract with them and they're nothing more than a middle man. . . I want the big dogs.
As far as the "thug bashers", they're not worth my time, nothing more than a fly that I occasionally swat away. Why in the world would anyone allow people like this with nothing more than words to disrupt their thought process?
Steve, holy cow, yes very long time! I'm doing well, finished up the overseas gig last year and focusing most of my time on this little jewel.
My number is still the same, call any time.
Mre: I'm on the road and will give proper reply later this evening,,, but yes
The value in going to a higher court is in the jury. The precedence set will be undeniable, irrefutable!
WRONG - FINRA will not award monetary judgments.
I would be more than happy to talk to you, let you know what I did and bumps I ran into. If you're on BCIT's website forum, contact me there and I'll help all I can (goes for everyone).
Start by "googling" your county and state court system, there's a ton of info available and it'll save you a few trips to the court clerks office.
A word about court clerk's and their offices: I (and others) have found them to be very helpful, not much knowledge on the law, but A1 on procedures.
Again? Why care if anyone has filed in this state or that state? Just file, plead your own case!
Multiply 8.25 times the number of shares you are suing for. . . Did that curb your trepidation?
Terri my friend; if you hurry up, you can be the first!
Why Arbitration?
Why do brokers want you to use arbitration? Very simple.
1) From court to arbitration buys them time
2) FINRA will NOT award a monetary judgment
3) MOST IMPORTANT - FINRA arbitration does NOT establish or enforce legal precedence. Allows brokers to deny, deny, deny.
Another question: Why does FINRA make the customer locate and purchase the certificates they were awarded? Another easy one.
This allows the brokers to continue to say "We can't find them, we can't buy them, they don't exist". You see; they never have to touch the certs, never see them, all they have to do is cut a check.
As CH says: Gives them "plausible deniability"
All Hands:
Look folks (everyone); the process is NOT difficult, the hard part is taking the first step.
I would bet dollars to doughnuts that FEAR is main culprit, so just stop it! I've already told you guys to put that fear in your pocket, it's counter-productive. The judicial system, the laws are on our side. Period!
The costs are minimal, hell-fire, deliver pizzas for one weekend and you'll have enough to file.
One more thing; those of you that filed and are waiting on a date, FILE AN AMENDMENT! Amend your filing to reflect / add punitive damages. Even if your jurisdiction has a 30 day period for amendments / motions, request an extension and file the amendment at the same time. WE'RE TALKING REAL DOLLARS HERE PEOPLE!!! More important; we're talking justice, we're talking about telling the financial system that we're mad as hell and won't take it anymore. . . And the courts are too!
We, as a whole, are figuring out exactly what abuses are being attempted by the brokers, abuses to the judicial system. Their only success has been in costing us more money and in buying themselves time. . . Now we know, now we can express this in great detail to our judges and they WILL handle it.
As I stated in an earlier post; judges want to help those of us that can't help ourselves, thats what they do. When they discover that multi-billion dollar companies, assisted by Philadelphia lawyers are using them and their system to protect ill-gotten-gain, , , OH DEAR - not pretty.
IVRT: You have a roadmap, just go back through my posts.
Fifteen cents per share? Brother that is long gone, not on anyone's radar. The new bar for punitive damages is $8.25. "Punitive Damages" means they broke trust and misrepresented themselves and manipulated the judicial system. Means they screwed us and are being punished for said actions.
The amount they have to pay to supply that which they sold us is their business,,, none of our concern. NONE of our concern.
I do know this; the price of poker just went up, meaning the last price they paid will never be seen again and the last price they paid was a far cry from fifteen cents.
If it's court, AMEND your filing to reflect punitive damages!
Molson: I just updated that post, go back.
Molson: NO; I was awarded $8.25 -- The judgment is as follows:
$24750.00 punitive damages
$173.50 filing fees
Stock Certificate for 3000 shares (3k shares maxed out small claims court, I will file with the big boys for the rest of my holdings next week)
**Attorneys have filed "paperwork" for a particular disposition** This will fail; we have docs in hand (from the feds) that put things as they were at 9:10 am this morning. The only advantage they will gain is a bit of time, but very little of that.
For armament? Not sure what you're asking
You'll have to contact CH if you want other details - or just wait around for a bit, JShell is digging up that info as we speak.
Each jurisdiction is probably different, but mine does the following:
- Small Claims, up to $25,000.00 with personal property having no limit (wink, wink)
- Orders of Protection
- Some divorce
- Some juvenile stuff
- It seems to me that it is kind of a "catch-all", just nothing really big.
Another thing: Lots of folks are intimidated by judges and courtrooms, maybe from a bad personal experience or maybe from too much TV.
Tuck that fear away, put it in your pocket for the time being. . . The overwhelming majority of judges truly want to do the right thing, they want to help people (that's why they're there). The problem is that the legal system is overloaded, that means judges have precious little time, , , they rarely suffer fools. No time for it!
Like I said earlier; prepare, prepare and prepare. Doesn't mean you have to be perfect, you don't have to act like a Philadelphia lawyer. They know you're not. Just know your materiel, dress and act respectful and I promise you that they will listen.
Just DON'T try to bullshit them, trust me, they're pretty smart.
Very much a rush!
It's much easier than most think.
1) Find monetary limits for General Sessions Court in your jurisdiction
2) Subtract filing fees from that limit
3) Divide that number by 8.25 and that's the number of shares you sue for - DO NOT sue for less than $8.25 in punitive damages, the bar has been set, more is fine (even better), just adjust the share count
4) Contact CH, request template
5) Pay your money (should be less than $200.00) and file with the clerk
6) Print docs (evidence), organize, prepare, prepare and prepare some more
7) Show up
8) Win
9) Rinse & repeat until all shares are certificated (or bite the bullet and go to court with the big dogs)
***Evidence is overwhelming, we ARE on the side of our laws, we ARE on the side of good***
To each and every shareholder: Show us you've got a pair, pony up and get this mess wrapped up!
Oh, that's a guarantee. My next complaint will be filed within a week and it's prices will be higher. Doing a jury trial this go-around. Really exciting stuff.
**Full Disclosure** They have already filed "papers", but we expected this. The one disappointing thing is that it's identical to "papers" they've used in the past. Used unsuccessfully I might add -- Are they out of ideas?
Could it be that a TD-A customer just got a judgment for punitive damages of $8.25 (Eight Dollars, Twenty Five Cents) per share? Plus (of course) delivery of physical stock certificate.
I wonder if anything exciting happened today?
Maybe, just maybe
All of the "bad guys" aren't really bad guys?
All of the "good guys aren't really good guys?
Trust nobody folks! AND don't fear the big boys!!!
I was in the Submarine Navy back in the dark ages and my boss (a Senior Chief and poker buddy) used to say "the price of poker just went up".
Boys and girls, The Price of Poker Just Went UP! AND UP! AND UP!
Lets see now, the last price was THREE TIMES the price of the previous price? Yeah, pretty sure thats right.
That price was quoted to and paid by one of the good guys...
Funny thing: There are haves and have-nots -- seems the have-nots (most anyway) believe the haves are all out to screw the rest. NOT TRUE! Having money, making solid life decisions doesn't make you a "bad guy". Not in the least, most of the wealthy firmly believe in the American Way! Most believe in right and wrong, most believe in WE ALL HAVE THE SAME OPPORTUNITY!
A "batch" of good guys just paid three (3) times the last closing price because they made a mistake, poor judgement, call it what you will -- end result (for them) is they did the RIGHT THING. Huh, wonder what the criminals will have to pay? Just curious, thats all. . . David
Oh, one more thing: I have air-shares and real life, no shit certs and I'm not anywhere close to the last price paid!
You had your chance and you blew it! Yep,,, I'm talking to you!
Amen Brother-Masta!
In addition:
All of those speaking of a dollar amount, settlements, arbitration... Knock it off! Talking numbers only gives the bad guys hope and we certainly don't want to do that. Do we? You can bet your last naked-shorted share that they a have a full understanding of the possibilities.
Sit back and watch, it WILL prove to be far more entertaining (and fruitful) than you currently imagine.
Lets allow our British friends to complete their work in peace. We will hoist a pint in their honor in Vegas.
Not gonna happen Chucky-Brother; not in the way you're thinking (hoping). Don't be disheartened; remember, there's more than one way to skin a kat, even (especially) a FAT KAT.
To re-open on our exchange would mean disaster for many brokers, meaning several would go BROKE. Meaning the feds would NEVER let that happen -- Do the math; number of short shares, past short squeezes, financials with REAL numbers and the potential that that offers (other stuff too) -- Two private practice analysts (Connecticut based guys, one was well paid, one was "just curious") did the math and it was UNF'N believable. . . Meaning - It ain't gonna happen!
OK, I've overused the word "meaning", deal with it.
So what's a poor slob like me to do?
1) Keep the faith (now that's a novel approach)
2) DO NOT, under any circumstance, price your shares! Don't f'n do it!
3) DO NOT let anyone intimidate you into dumping your shares prematurely
4) If (very big IF) you own "205" certs, send them back to the TA for replacement (get rid of the "restricted / control" stamp)
5) Do #4 RIGHT F'n NOW,,, as in NOW
6) Enjoy your day, enjoy your family, enjoy your friends -- This ain't gonna happen today, , , but it WILL happen very soon
7) Don't you just love the word "soon"
8) Re-read # 2 & 3, NOW
The company (BCIT), as a whole and individually will NOT like this post: Too bad Too sad -- But keep this in mind: They have spent untold dollars / pounds to right this monumental wrong, they ARE the good guys and WE owe them BIG TIME!!! I, for one, will curtsey in such a fashion that will do the Queen proud (in Vegas of course)! Our financial contribution is
nothing more than a token, a token that Tom has taken seriously!
If you steal
one (1) Chevrolet pick-up and put a GMC emblem on it, you still have one (1) stolen pick-up. In other words, you can squeeze a 205 just as tight as you can a 106.
If simply following this particular rule (changing the CUSIP) would eliminate the possibility of my beloved short squeeze, they would have done it a very long time ago.
You're worrying about the wrong things.
I speak few languages and learned a very long time ago, , , to not have a scale for IQ. I learned this the hard way.
P.S. I am right. "The Dave is Always Right".
Dear Two: You haven't fully comprehended my post. My friend, we are on the same page. . . Just pull yourself from the pit, pull yourself from the emotion. We are so close to Victory, we (I) can smell it.
Also; please use a word.doc page to formulate your posts. It's quite helpful in the placement of "too" vs "to", among other grammatical errors.
I ask your forgiveness in my arrogance, but words and the placement of same will always create a sense of intelligence for readers. . . Right or wrong, thats a fact. Thank you. . . David
This whole situation is truly fun to watch, but you must be emotionally disconnected in order to get the full effect. Fighter Pilots call it compartmentalization.
We have bright and learned characters on both sides and of course we have folks that cant find their arse with both hands. That’s par for the course.
Here’s the problem; everyone is thinking inside the box (I hate that term, but its fitting), both sides are looking left, right and certainly watching their “six”. Both sides give an absolute Yes or No to trading, trading in the traditional sense, the everyday public way of trading. We have other ways of “trading”, ways that allow shorty to save face and allow longs to turn-a-dollar (a VERY nice dollar). Take a look at the legalities of who can and cant trade a stock under these exact circumstance. No really, take a look.
Back to the dollar thing: That is purely figurative, not literal. The person that stated “1 dollar”, has not done his (or her) research on similarly situated companies (you really didn’t think we were the only one did you?). The real think-tank weenies that wouldn’t be caught dead on a message board have real numbers from real securities and those numbers are much brighter.
OK, lets back-up again: The inside the box thing: looking left, looking right, , , lets call it Parallel and Perpendicular. Now lets move outside the box, lets think in the Oblique – Neither parallel nor perpendicular. Yeah baby, lets think differently, lets think in terms that make everyone win. Shorty gets off without bad press, longs get a pile of money. Everyone is happy. Hows-bout that shit, a pile of money for longs? Yep, a pile of money for us is nothing for the big boys, it’s a proverbial drop in the bucket.
Stop crying! Longs have cash and will soon forget the evildoers, shorty gets off light and nobody is the wiser. The betterment of mankind? Hahahahahha, damn, that’s funny, just forget it, the best that we can hope for is that the power-houses will think twice, do a little more research before shorting a company into oblivion. Maybe.
Well, I just submitted
my order form and payment for more shares. I provided full SSN and didn't bat-an-eye.
Hell, I'm more concerned that this will drag out and I'll forget all about BCIT (as I did years ago), or become obsessed and spend all free time here, than I am about giving out personal numbers.
My job includes lots of travel (now in Afghanistan) and I've had to replace 5 credit cards in as many years. So far, it hasn't cost a dime. Pony-up for a system that watches your overall credit and choose cards from reputable companies (if there is such a thing). Then you can pull up your big boy pants and buy, buy, buy -- The travel thing, multiple third world countries, is far more hazardous to your credit well-being than this could ever be.
Sure hope I didn't just throw away more money. Gotta love the Casino located on Wall Street. . . Dave
Andy's e-mail does not
coinside with the PR. Once again, Andy has made himself look woefully inadequate for his position.
Hey joye, would you take a look
at this chart assessment for me? Would like to know if you agree with it. Thank you...And thank you for replying to my question the other day. David
http://www.investorshub.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=5558473
joy, where would a
person go to learn how to read those charts? It's something I gotta do. Useful tool!
THE HONORABLE LINCOLN DAVIS
The Congressman from Tennessee's 4th district has been asked for help. Now, how about your Congressman?