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Called WF Bank, shares removed as worthless, so is this how it ends?
and then they turn right back around and hand out the shares as stock options to the Execs, who in turn do not return our funds and keep the BR open indefinitely to pay-out our accumulated overdue returns to their legal cohorts (and indirectly to themselves by the value of new stock via options). Corporate buy-backs have become the new way of internal legal theft, by not affecting annual BV (and thus stock price) with the usage of offsetting corporate buybacks & exec stock options.
Loosing the current FDIC head (a Rep) may be a big blow to distributions; as JD (a Dem) and the Federal Reserve will now direct Joe as to who should fill the position, and thus the BR's may never close or close with little to no fund fanfare. The HJRW did well with escrows/commons and not so well with a finite timetable for BR closure. This situation has been a dream date for several BR law firm's; infinitely kept open till funds are used up, not unlike keeping grandma alive in the nursing home till the family funds are used up.
Check out my post 661072 of June 26, it appears this bankruptcy doesn't have an end until it is forced (class action) to end. HJMW did us quite well, until she failed to provide some sort of end (contingent) process; in her defense, this would have been nearly impossible to do--knowing that it would probably take 10+ years to legally unravel....
This has always been a special bankruptcy, in that with the historic market crash of Fall/2008, the US Treasury/FDIC (Paulson/Bair) had to step in and take unprecedented (mostly confidential) emergency action. The Stock Market was collapsing, Major Firms collapsed and AIG couldn't provide Insurance that was necessary to keep the entire Financial system from collapsing
Even though Bankruptcy Law (and HJW-Court Process) has been followed as closely as possible, there are certain CIA-type secrets that we will never know and why the Company (WMIH) can act and do (on their own time schedule and not on Bankruptcy/SEC schedule) when they want to, and of course this fits fine with the Lawyers who provide cover and soak a careers worth of fees from of our pool of funds.
So even though they should have done an 8k here and an 8k there, don't be so confident that (due to their sheltered US Gov. status) our Company (WMIH) won't keep dragging this out. I'm wonder how the Hedge funds (and Lawyers) have been pacified during this 13 year process?
We may be following HJW's court-approved settlement, but was there any definitive time table, and because of a perfect excuse (Homeland Security), can they indefinitely take from the Commons-Pool with fees and security borrowing. I hope the end is near, but it may never have to end.
Unless of course, Jamie wants to take-down Wamu a second time, in order to pick up Coop and the Parent this time around (with MBS stockpile). Maybe Jamie had NY-Chucky take the Mortgage-Servicers out of the Stimulus Bill to facilitate his final take-down act-for this pesky (hard-to-kill) West Coast financial operation. Maybe his MM's and Insiders are already starting the shorting process on Coop, much like was done in 2008 After all, it was Jamie that stated today we are headed for another 2008 recession, just maybe JPM is leading the way to make this a reality and achieve even greater financial domination. Maybe our CEO-Bray is already warming to JPM.
Were the common share distributions made for only those shareholders that released?, as I did receive my allocated shares from WF yesterday.
My bank WF would not let me move my escrow shares from my WF-IRA brokerage account to my other (non IRA) WF-brokerage accounts. I tried to do this a couple years back when it appeared we may have more value returned to us than our original investment. As I wanted to be able to offset LTC gains with carryover capital losses incurred in my regular brokerage accounts-due to the Stock Crash of 2008. MY feeble argument was that, as long as the stock has been worthless for 7 years running, why can't I transfer zero-value stock to another (non-IRA) account? They simply answered; the bankruptcy is not over yet and so until its over your IRA stock is not transferable to a non-IRA account. So, if you were able to shift IRA escrow shares (markers) out of an IRA account to a non-IRA account, that was more than I was able to get done.
Thanks Silly, Yes the new Wmih received (and long since sold), matched perfectly with the conversion rate (.0335) applied against my old Wamu stock holdings. So now I remain with my old Wamu shares (denoted with a nc), but I've never seen any tracking or marking numbers associated with them. That is why I started this discussion with the question, does having received new Wmih shares (at the correct conversion percentage) indicate in itself that one has released and is a participant in the eventual payoff? The answers (4) have been unanimous that it does, but that one should also of had corresponding tracking or marking numbers associated with your remaining Wamu holdings. So I'm back at the bank inquiring further of the whereabouts of my tracking and/or markers?, but maybe my bank just does not utilize tracking numbers or markers. The bank responds this way; when (and if) there is a distribution dividend (payoff), your share ownership will participate in the dividend by the percentage of shares that you own, as if I'm part of a large holding of stock (millions of shares of stock held by the bank for its clients) that participates as one block of claimants?
LG, I had a typo, it was supposed to read "no tracking/marker numbers listed with the common shares". Thanks again.
Thanks Jerry, Yes I did have the two rows, however I sold the distributed Wmih shares not long after (when they were worth something). My remaining row of original Wamu Inc. common shares, shown with a nc (no cost value) is in place, but never were there any associated trackinor mg/marker numbers listed with them. Henceforth, I am following up again with the bank, as AZ would say "know what you own" ("or do not own"). The bank is not forthcoming to this point, or maybe I'm just now learning how to get and/or request the information that I'm seeking.
Thanks LG, will do as you suggested. The bank is not very forthcoming regarding this stock, as if they are trying very hard to be secretive.
Thanks Zeke, but the reason I gave them that number (thanks to LG), is that all I've ever owned has been common shares.
Jerrylev, How would you interpet this reply from my bank today?
We appreciate your inquiry; however, we do not fully understand what
information you are looking for. Escrow shares include "ESC" in the
CUSIP number for the security. The CUSIP you provided, 939ESC968,
represents the escrow shares you received from the bankruptcy. We do not
understand what other escrow share markers or numbers you are referring
to.
Thanks Jerry, I will follow up with the link provided, much appreciated.
Thanks LG for your response and Cussip numbers for common and preferred. I will follow up with my bank to confirm these tracking numbers. I did receive new wmih shares in 03/12 at a rate of .0335, so that is comforting.
Thanks Silly, I believe it may be something that my bank thankfully did for me, as the new share amount of wmih (long since sold) was exactly a computation of .03 for each common held (and still held at zero value, since there is nothing we can do with them that I'm aware of other than wait it out). I tried once to shift them from my IRA account with the bank to another trading-brokerage account (with the same bank), since due to the great depression I had ample capital losses in the other account, and in any case if we did receive something for them at some time, I could have sold them tax free due to offsetting capital losses. However, the bank would not let me move them-even though I argued that there was no value associated with them. The bank acted like that most likely there would be value at some time.
Thanks Roach, however the bank won't confirm the terminology "tracking or markers", they consistently refer only to escrow shares. My name wasn't on the list of those that released, as the bank has always held my shares, but obviously the bank was listed as holding millions of released shares (as I can only hope were for all "released" shares-including me). The bank is one of the bigs.
LG, did everyone that was issued new wmih shares also release?, or could you have been issued new wmih shares and did not release? I'm aligned with a large bank that won't tell me anything about these shares and are deliberately very vague when questioned (multiple times over the years) about my original common shares. Although they do refer to these shares as escrow shares and only say that if there is a distribution for these escrow shares then my shares will participate. My new wmih shares showed up in my account in 03/2012 with a nc (no cost) symbol, and frankly (and somewhat embarrassingly) I don't know if I released or not and I don't know if my bank even gave me the option? Due to the great recession, I had to work out of state (oil fields) and was away from my mail during this time, however my wife does not recall anything about any of this. But I do know that the bank was always in total control of everything and of course always held the certificates. I would just like to finally know if I'm a player to AZ's 144 trusts or just a cheerleader after these 10 years. I had one hell of a pile of common shares. Thanks, I enjoy you, AZ, BDork, Tanji, and others.
The Board has fiduciary responsibility to all shareholders; in particular a Board that is comprised of a majority of seats representing one shareholder (KKR), need to be acutely aware of minority shareholders-due to recent precedent established concerning successful minority shareholder lawsuits.
In a situation wherein, shareholders (and/minority shareholders) were basically forced to sell for a certain value (let's just pick $3), and shortly thereafter it was determined that there was substantially more value either real or inherent (future) value, the Board (KKR) would be subject to major legal (class) action. Especially so, in this situation whereby the owners have been waiting ten years, and having to endure multiple court actions and finally a Por-7 negotiated payout process approved by a Judge. I doubt that even KKR would try and steal the payout process at this point and subject themselves to damages much greater than what the actual payout should (and will be) for each share (during 2018).
Maybe Vrng is in the process of being sold and it was necessary to clean up any outstanding litigation in order to complete the sale process? Possibly ZTE or Nokia could be suitors. Otherwise, at this point I'm in agreement that nothing makes any cents....
What were the approximate number of outstanding common shares that would be dividing up a potential escrow payout?
The stock may make a new 52-week low, but will not break $.60 (or it would be done for) and most likely will not break $.70, as there will be to many buyers (including me) jumping in to ride the rail as we chase down ZTE around the globe. The recent article about Vrng being undervalued at the current price due to the ZTE potential will keep the stock within $.25 of current price. Don't forget, we don't have to many days left to get back above a close of $1.00, or then we have additional problems.
I still believe in the Supremes on the Goog case, in that they will take this case on (if for no other reason than) to correct the injustice by the CAFC for what appears to be pure politics (pressure from the Administration regarding patent trolls and patent reform on behalf of the hi-techs corporate interests).
Of course Obama and Holder want patent reform in order to protect the liberal financiers (Hi-Tech Corps) from the so-called patent trolls, and most importantly to protect their beloved Goog- who might as well occupy one of the wings at the Big House. The only "obviousness" that exists is just how obvious the Administration actions are from a political standpoint. Tim Cook just visited the Big House and probably weighed in on patent legislation as well (and to probably drop off another donation).
Let's just hope that the EnBanc boys set aside partisan politics and do the right thing and restore justice back to where and when the District Court justice system had correctly applied justice. Otherwise we are left with waiting out a longshot with the Supremes in 2015 and chasing around the Chinese (ZTE) ghosts.
Harry Reid's nuclear option action (of well over a year ago) allowed the Senate to approve lifetime judge appointments of Obama/Holder with a simple majority vote (51 senators); so the courts have been turned into a political (ideological)forum for companies and organizations (Goog and other Hi Tech Dem political contributors ie: Facebook, Apple, Amazon) that support the Dem's politics. So depending on how many EnBank judges are of this biased cloth will probably work against true justice--it may take the Supremes to render true justice (if they would take the case which would be low odds). The recent senatorial election results will stop these ideological appointments (vs. sound legal appointments)for the time being-although Harry (and the retiring Holder) will jam as many appointments through as possible in December before the Dem's have to turn over their leadership roles in January.
This is why we have justice turned upside down in the patent arena in the US (versus the European Union); is due to partisan politics with the pressure being applied by the Dem's party Hi-Tech contributors-so as to not have to conform to existing patents due to patents being OBVIOUS (only obvious to liberals), and of course the payoff to Goog for election canvassing (vote turnout in key electoral states for Obama's last presidential win), thanks in part to Eric Schmidt (ex Goog CEO) working closely with Obama administration.
I hope that I am wrong, as I'm sure I own a hell of a lot more shares than you do, as it is a risky process averaging down.
The trouble with chasing ZTE, is that with a company based in Communist China, they don't have to play by any international rules, particularly intellectual property rules (as the Chinese steal everything they don't have-government and private-no difference). Once they are shut down in all the countries that Vrng currently has them by the legal balls, they will simply start direct shipments from China (or Russia, North Korea, etc.). So I don't anticipate any ZTE settlement, and the only monies coming Vrng way would be as a result of attaching their bank accounts in those countries-before the cash in transferred out.
Take a read of my post 54664 of August 18 (3 days after the decision). It outlines the injustice of this total political (partisan) decision and why it was necessary to protect Goog.
I'm still in and accumulating below $.90; as reason for selloff is evidently the Belkin (dud?) settlement and chasing a Chinese company (ZTE) on patent issues is like trying to catch a ghost.
I'm in for the long haul through 2015 for EnBanc review and/or Supreme Court review possibilities as this case has been totally political: Administration and Justice Department payoff to High Tech Company campaign donors over patent trolls and payoff protection of almighty Goog for future (and prior) campaign election canvassing. This obvious partisan travesty of justice may get reversed and if so, the short squeeze will drive the price to $5 (review granted) and then $10 (decision reversed), so I'm willing to ride a 100,000 shares for the possibility of a 10-1 return or $1,000,000, I'll take those odds any day (very rare occurrence for these type of odds to occur--even with low probability).
Selling related to 30 day rule, so investors can capture losses for 2014 and then buy in after 30 days and in front of Oct. 15.
Goog may settle now for $5/share and Vrng would take it, as Goog still has exposure to $10-$15/share and Vrng has other potential revenue (patent) streams that may pay for a $5/share settlement.
Up to $1.75-$2.00 with EnBanc review acceptance and up to $2.25-$2.50 with positive ZTE news, so plenty of upside left in the near term along with some short squeezing with either incident.
IMO this tragic injustice was a result of political pressure, not necessarily an outright bribe, but the mighty Goog being protected and preserved by the current administration and justice department to continue their technical discovery and turnout work for the Democratic party. I think that Goog would also continue to be protected by a full panel review but not so by the Supreme Court. I was worried with Judge Jackson, but the Goog lawyers knew where there protection lay--with the Appeals Court. Judge Jackson may have known this as well in that he went to great lengths to conduct his own trial on the technical aspects (including obviousness)of this case and waiting on the USPTO clarifications before his RR ruling of 6.5%.
So real justice and the restoration of software patents is on hold till we get to the real Court--The Supreme Court. In the meantime, the new trading range with be between $1.50 and $2.75.
Stock sales no big deal.
If you notice; the insiders are selling every 3 months, most likely for quarterly tax purposes, as they are exercising options and recording gains on those actions(along with higher salaries)and they are using periodic share sales to fund those situations.
This appears normal to me and the same course I would follow if I was an insider, just as outside investors try to buy low and sell high and take a little off the table, so do insiders as well.
We investors have a great team at Vrng that deserves to be highly paid before we are highly paid, as that is how the patent company model works. So I'm not troubled by high salaries or insiders taking some off the table (in relation to how many shares held).
With the patent company model all the strategic investment options are made up front before there are any earnings or cash.
It appears the insiders may be privy to the Appellate Decision.
secret plot to scare the shorts...
Down to 36000 and holding to Christmas
Nice to see the naked shorts get a scare...
I think the reason that the PPS has not held up is that even with a billion dollars of cash (with a successful appeal, Vrng still does not have a going concern (no business presently, unlike licensing deals that provide an indefinite stream of cash flow).
So even with all the cash, Vrng would just burn through it over so many years (high priced salaries and ill-fated ventures)-as they are most likely not going to declare a special dividend or liquidate the company and distribute the money to shareholders.
In order for the PPS to ever go up there would need to be a business for the billion dollars to facilitate, or better yet Vrng would need to buy a going concern (for say $750m) and have ample cash flow to infuse into it and/or maintain the business.
I do give Honorable JJ credit for this long process and finally ruling on the RR, despite all the legal shenanigans of Goog.
and now with the new Senate filibuster rules, the Dems are loading up the appeal courts with their FOB's (friends of Obama),so the Vrng appeal will probably be in front of Goog backed judges. Our resident legal eagles can probably shed more light on where and what these new judges will preside over?
I agree with your analysis with a caveat; I as well don't think that HJJ is directly compromised, but he is not going to rule against Goog (by ruling on some level of R/R) either. He wants a settlement so that he does not have to rule against Goog and thereby upsetting the Administration brethren (Obama/Holder).
So I believe that something has to eventually happen (and will happen) so that HJJ will not have to rule on some level of R/R for Vrng. Indefinite delay is a natural part of this process.
The reason that HJJ wants a settlement; is that he does not want to be the retiring judge that ruled against the Administration's beloved partner and friend Goog and cross the ruling brethren.
Vrng has done a good job of keeping the portable fence around HJJ, but also Goog has done well at delay and providing HJJ with reasons not to have to rule on the RR (which he does not want to have to rule on and will not have to if he can ultimately force a settlement-mainly by dragging the case out and consequently allowing the PPS to go lower and force Vrng to settle for less).
The final HJJ gambit on Vrng: is that he will decide that the independent experts have both made such a strong case that only a new trial can determine the validity of the Goog W/A. This major delay puts ultimate pressure on Vrng PPS and company cash flow.