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LARGE GREEN
1) During October of the year 2018, 12,000 COOP Common shares became 1,000 due to 1-12 Reverse Split
2) During October of the year 2018, 12,000 COOP Preferred shares were still 12,000 Preferred authorized shelf-ready shares
NOW even with this BOBVIOUS advantage over commons, many still CONcluded that ""THE COMMONS WILL INHERIT THE BULK OF THE ESTATE""
ANd that commons were in control of negotiations
IF IF IFIN this was the case, WHY THEN DIDN'T PREFERRD shares get DILUTED at the same ratio as commons ?????????????????? LOL BECAUSE THEY ARE PREFERREDS
I've said for years on end that DA BOYZZZZZZ, DID NOT and WOULD NOT have """NEGOTIATED THEMSELVES SUBORDINATE TO COMMONS, NO WAY NO HOW, they aint TUPID
COULD IT BE THE SHEAR FACT that they are called PREFERRED SHARES for a reason
Never have understood the mind set of preferreds being capped at any level face or even 4.6 X's face, it NEVER MADE SENSE and it still doesn't today and it should be pretty BOBVIOUS TO ALLLL that TEPPER SAVITZ UW's BONDERMAN E'TAL do not and did not see COMMONS as being the PLAY or they would have been caught and shown COLORABLE for IT for buying commons AND NOT FOR BUYING PREFERREDS which is what they were shown colorable for IT in buying.
One of them was COURT ORDERED TO dispose of 800K K series preferreds
Now let me top it off with this
Since it has BECOME SO BOVIOUS TO some here that COMMONS are the way to go AND WILL INHERIT THE BULK OF THE ESTATE, WHY DID THE UW's spend several mill $$$ and fight? Why didn't they say, HEY ya know what your right and we will just move to commons where we should have been placed in the start
But heck ALL WILL BE JUST FINE, BUT SOME WILL BE FINER
Fred
Based on the following, would you really want to be the last ELEPHANT in the room in a case like this and in front of a JURY over it.
This make UBS appear as ONE OF THE LAST ARROGANT DEFENDANTs , while OTHERs are apparently settling and admitting some mistake or liability.
LETTER MOTION for Conference Regarding Preliminary Approval of Exchange-Based Plaintiffs' Settlement with Remaining Defendants addressed to Judge Naomi Reice Buchwald from David E. Kovel and Christopher Lovell dated April 9, 2024. Document filed by 303030 Trading LLC, 303030 Trading, LLC, Atlantic Trading USA, LLC, FTC Futures Fund PCC Ltd, FTC Futures Fund SICAV, Gary Francis, Gary Francis, Nathaniel Haynes, Metzler Investment GmbH. Filed In Associated Cases: 1:11-md-02262-NRB, 1:11-cv-02613-NRB.
Also ever day that goes by, the values GO UP, if I was acting as their counsel I WOULD SUGGEST they settle SOONER THAN LATER, like yesterday.
Holding out in this case is a very bad legal decision to make and in turn will cost them much much more.........................IMHO
Why the smiley face I am asking seriously
Can you show WHERE THEY HAVE BEEN SOLD or just a definitive agreement TO SELL THEM?????
You do know even definitive agreements can go by way side ( WITH ALL PARTIES IN AGREEMENT)
And I am still having trouble grasping why this would NOT BE 8k worthy
LARGE
Again could it have been an arms length agreement with NO CASH changing hands, but it became a sub of a sub
P20
NOW HOWDAYDODAT??????????????????????? A sale requires money or shares to change hands so
But THANK YOU seriously for the info
Now let me cast this out there, COULD it be an arms length agreement and they are a sub of a sub
Since something doesn't add up selling something and it is not material with no 8K
LARGE GREEN
ANY SUCH completion would have required an 8K announcing the value AND COMPLETION of the sale, have you seen any such 8K filed on either since the 3rd quarter of 2021
Or in any of our 10Ks since, as to a sale of assets and an infux of cash and their values from those sales
Remember again 8K on any DEFINITIVE material events must take place
HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
BUT BUT WAIT they are DEFINITIVE AGREEMENTS and definitive agreements are only definitive WHEN AND IF THE ARE DEFINITELY COMPLETED
HMMMMMMMMMMMMM DEFINITIVE agreements, I wonder if any can SHOW where these DEFINITIVE agreements can be shown to have DEFINITIVELY BEEN COMPLETED and what was the value received for such a LARGE MATERIAL EVENT that requires an 8K to be put forth on both.
LG
Remember all COOP can get is 2.5% OUT of any returns THEEEEEEEE TRUE VALUE for the P K U comes from the legacy part of the estate NOT COOP, all COOP really owes us is for the servicing rights for all these years. ANDDDDDDDDDDDDDD TO MAKE THE REORG TRULY COMPLETE and PUT US BACK WHOLE AGAIN for a true reorg
Boris
One would think that it is a simple mathematical equation...........
Lets say COOP gets 2.5 % of any moneys returned out of this and for grins use the 600 bill figure as I did before, that equates to COOP getting back 15 bill right and it would take right at 10 bill to issue new preferds and the 36,000,000 to commons @$75 or 2.75 bill . WE then end up leaving COOP with a nice nest egg 5 bill and covering their REORG'd plan.
Then with the 5 bill they pay off their LOAN 3bill . and are debt free with with 2 bill cash.............
NOW take the 2 bill in cash left over and divide by 100 mill shares and ya get 20$ per SHARE IN CASH INFLUX to the company can you only imagine what that would do to the share price,, the numbers are NOT IMHO a KOWINKIDINK but a LONG DRAWN OUT PLAN
Also you wrote
""Obviously the current value of a P escrow is far more than par,""
You imho are talking about 2 different thing here COOP only has to make the share structure right again 51% for commons and prefrds made whole at the ORIGINAL FACE.
The intrinsic value of legacy comes in a different bucket
MANY HERE IMHO STILL BELIEVE THAT COOP IS GONNA GET THE BIG MONEY, the POR/GSA said the REORGD CAN ONLY RECEIVE 2.5% of anything coming back
I do not understadn why itis so hard for some to see PREFERDS are not going to give away the big piece of the pie
Thats been our whole point all the years since 3/19/2012 LOGIC and COMMON SENSE says there IS NOT ANY REASON TO BELIEVE THEY are stupid
TIME WILL TELL AND TIME TELLS ALL
HERO OR ZERO
"""SOME WILL BE FINER THAN OTHERS""" at least imho
COMMON SENSE AND LOGIC USE THEM THEY WORK
JHD
And I said that this a.m. food,GAS, electric, taxes, insurance, repairs, materials ect ect
Bought any lumber lately or or copper tubing or heck even sherwin williams paint WHICH IS NOW @ $65 a gal
Show me something anything that has gone DOWN
Your prices must be different than they are here, because everything is UP HERE and LARGE and seem to go up almost every week
Ray
IMHO both will get NEW preferds on a 1/1 basis for P's and 1/40 basis in K's, if they only issue one series of preferd, NOW they could very easily put out another $25 K ""TYPE SERIES at $25, since they have 10 mill shelf ready prefrds with NO ASSIGNED value at this point and the could issue K's 1/1 as well, and if ya take commons and using a number of 36,000,000 that imho need to be issued on a 1/12 basis it works out to be 432,000,000 which is ROUGHLY 25% of the original 1.2 bill that elected. AINT THAT A KOWINKIDINK
Again points to how DA BOYZ negotiated the GSA/POR all need to realize that ""THE PREFERRED EQUITY WAS NOT REVERSE SPLIT
HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM NBD it is JUST A KOWINKDINK RIGHT
Onior
History and your own personal experiences tell ya this can't keep going up and in all fairness it really should even be where it is today if not for flooding the economy with money we DO NOT HAVE, this market isn't real and I still say we are on the very edge of a collapse similar to 2008 if not worse
"".no matter what is happening in the world or here in the USA...just keeps going up.""
Now do they hold it off till Jan 2025
BREAKING: Inflation is up 3.5% over last year — "HOTTER than expected."
— RNC Research (@RNCResearch) April 10, 2024
Overall prices are up 19.4% since Biden took office. pic.twitter.com/YfTcMe4Bel
Yeppers we will just exactly like we will see what happens here with WMI LEGACY and COOP
JHD
"It seems to me it could affect mid to small banks at a greater rate."
As far as home loan failures I agree but, one has to UNDERSTAND small to mid sized banks DO NOT LEND 100;s of millions of dollars to build malls and large office building complexes, THAT TODAY MANY ARE SITTING EMPTY in MANY PLACES
I'm sorry but I do NOT see the economy as ALL THAT GREAT, when real numbers are used like 12-14% inflation instead of the FEDS numbers today of 3.5%, heck eggs have gone up way more than 3.5% just this last week and gas is hitting $3.96 in OK for real gas not ethanol
ONIRO
As I have suggested as far back as 2020 and HAS BEEN LINKED, imho they are in dire need to ISSUE NEW SHARES and there is even here NOW OUT OF THE BLUE and ALL of a sudden a suggestion that ADDITIONAL SHARES NEED TO BE ISSUED as if it was some new found revelation, BUT IF SHARES are to be ISSUED, which I have felt they MUST BE to correct the commons ownership %'s and if we do the 36 bill shares, the PRICE WILL TANK accordingly keeping it imho OFF of the $100 dollar mark
One needs to understand that when shares are issued IT MUST AS WELL SHOW a valid reason and value to apply to the shares issued for the reason of their issuance
SO the PPS in time will imho rebound
just imho
SILLY
NOT HARDLY WMIH/COOP whatever it ends up being called will be TO BIG TO FAIL...................
Even on the lows side estimates on values once joined in some way with WMI and it's old assets, they can go on a buying spree on the down low, buying up assets from failed banks.
I said this many years ago, we are being built far to large and imho will be the GO TO SERVICER for troubled banks loans to go to from the FDIC, for if you will
TO PAY FOR WHAT THE FDIC DID TO US IN 2008 with the 5th taking ANd to a great degree taking JPMC OUT OF THE PICTURE as they have enough problems to take them down now if everyone that has paper silver certs in SLV calls for physical metal.
Last I heard was they have 86 1oz contracts sold for every 1 OZ they currently hold in actual silver.(CAN YOU SAY A TAD OVER LEVERAGED)
Feds need another very solid house for their seized loans and IMHO we will be that house
IMHO
FRED
It is IS IS an election year and OBIDEN needs all the help he can get and the DIMWHITLIBS will just buy his spew
Notice they did NOT add in food or fuel of any type
""inflation is running at 15%, imo and not 3.5%..........WTF.....NAIVE AHs.........GET REAL.....""
JHD
I agree this aint 2008, YETTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT but imho it will be and not too far off and with the value of commercial paper/property in comparison to HOUSING paper/prices, I think it might be much worse this time around with a lot of BANK FAILUREs due to foreclosures on both commercial paper and homes added into the mix
HOPE I AM WRONG
just my WAG
Interesting
from $4.48 to $ 78 in only 4 yrs (17/1 ROI) seems pretty exciting to me, but I guess I excite easily lol
JHD
""I feel ok with economy""
Personally I AINT thrilled with it, with inflation in FOOD, FUEL, PROPERTY TAXES, ENERGY, INSURANCE, HOUSING COSTS
Heck I had 4 new roofs put on a month ago and on avg they were 50% higher than they were 8-10 yrs ago (OKLA HAIL STORMS)
Why then have all of the BIG MONEY players been going to cash or investing in HARD TANGIBLE ASSETS, Gold , silver, art work, land ect?
Seems to me that they see something we don't see at least imho
JHD
YEPPERS as I have discussed as well on this board multiple times, COOP will reach its HIGHs and the market will crash and shares will be issued to coincide with the crash so it is not so BOBVIOUS and then like you said yesterday, the shares will climb right back up.
BUT not before many will look at how much their accts will have increased in value and SAY ": I'M DONE I'M OUT OF HERE and sell, then it gets bought up by all those in the KNOW on the downside, then it goes right back UP awaiting for what I suggest will be a BUY OUT at a premium to its current share price at the time.
I am still of the opinion that somehow we will HOOK UP with LEH(60 bill nols) and Fannie and Freddie to create
A HUGE MEGA MULTINATIONAL FINANCIAL CONGLOMERATE that will dwarf the OLD WAMU in value
I've never wavered once and never will..
ALL IMHO
ONE HUGE MEGA MULTINATIONAL FINANCIAL CONGLOMERATE that will dwarf the OLD WAMU in value
I will also suggest that as soon as this is truly closed, the IRS WILL reevaluate and UPDATE and increase our over all NOLS in a NEW OPINION LETTER as to the TRUE value of the NOL's over all these years. IMHO
Lg and I over the years have discussed this and have a WAG that it will end up in the range of 12-15 bill in total NOLS combined under a NEW IRS OPINION LETTER
Fred
""" that a few of those perp banks are getting added back to the formal action............that's my take................"""
Adding them back to aide in the penalties, so NO SINGLE or few banks have to take that heavy of a direct hit.
ALL were guilty so spread fines out to all
AZ
Here is one from 4 yrs ago, where I AGAIN suggested THERE WILL BE DILUTION IN OUR FUTURE
Care to retract the statement that " DILUTION HAS NEVER BEEN SUGGEST BY ANYONE ON THIS BOARD BEFORE???????
BBANBOB
Member Level
Re: vodkadejour post# 642889
Wednesday, December 23, 2020 2:11:27 PM
Post# of 725864
My WAG is coupled with the possibility of some pretty serious DILUTION, I'd suggest they might want to keep it under $100 with and after dilution is included. And although maintaining the NOL's is IS IS important, the dilution imho is needed to keep this on the down low and so what all would have more shares just at a lower pps!
Forwards are not near the neg that RV's are!
Pretty hard to explain how a POS BK company comes out and is from 250$ to 500$ only a few years out of BK!
This whole thing will go down on the QT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The DILUTION will aide in the keeping this on the down low and under the radar
AND even as I suggest today THERE WILL BE DILUTION and a sizeable one
P's and K's will get NEW PREFDS and commons will get additional commons to maintain the original share structure of 51% of the reorg'd to align the commons holding back to pre seizure levels to maintain ALL of the NOLS and create as close as possible the same share structure as it was creating a true REORG of the company..
AZ I will just stop at this POST AS IT PROVEs I was talking about SHARES NEEDING TO BE ISSUED LONG ago to make commons WHOLE AGAIN
OH AND THAT WAS IN 2022 so yes, over 2years ago, enough said
BBANBOB
Member Level
Re: cura asada post# 677047
Thursday, February 03, 2022 10:25:42 AM
Post# of 725849
Cura
""The 416,300,000 divided by 12 was agreed to be.paid at $30 pps, the opening.pps on the Effective Day February 1st 2020.""
Would you be SUGGESTING that any additional shares that MAY NEED TO BE ISSUED, WILL be issued at $30 so that all are on an equal footing for shares they MAY receive in any possible distribution of shares??????????????
TIA
XOOM
YES it was and HAS THE FDIC receivership yet been CLOSED OUT and COMPLETED ????????? NOPEY
HAS JPMC paid for that it ILLEGAL WAS GIVEN OR TOOK ? NOPEY
Have all legal lawsuits been taken care of and completed? NOPEY
HOW can a game be OVER TILL IT IS OVER
TOM didin' t say WHEN, just that it would be and we yes are right about if I remember correctly 10 yrs.
AZ
SOrry but you are wrong.
I have suggested for several yrs that SHARES will need to be issued to put the commons BACK INTO A POSITION of owning 51% of the company and when that happens the share price WILL FALLLLLLLL.................... WOW IS ALL I CAN SAY to your statement that no one here have ever said that...........Pretty telling I'd say
And yes ALL WILL BE JUST FINE but SOME WILL LOL BE FINER THAN OTHERS
AZ
another LIGHT BULB moment !!!!!!! HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
Now where ya heard this for some time now LOLOLOL BWAHHHHHHHHHHHAHAHAHA and not in just the last 3 weeks or so.
I stated long ago they would issue shares BACK to the original number 100 mill and when they do this could go as low as $24-28
This has been being stated for some time as YOU KNOW, but was addressed as SLOOPY IRRELEVANT DD
""COOP purchases above $50.00pps (ish) will suffer, ... and those that RELEASED P's and uq's will be fine' (Fair and Equitable) ... Again, in my opinion, COOP will reset back to the original 100 million shares' outstanding ... "Xome Has Zero to do with the Events SOON to come' ... "COOP" has been merely a necessary tool'
BIZ
"THE WASHINGTON MUTUAL THING IS NOT OVER AND NOT OVER BY A LONG SHOT AND WILL BE TAKEN CARE OF"
Sen. TOM COBURN OK
Personally I will takes his word over any that POST here
NO OFFENSE MEANT at all
SCREW it bring the $16.41 and we'll all JUST disappear anyway
GODDIE
IMHO yes WE DO HAVE the BAIL in ready (IMHO), where by THEY TAKE YOUR MONEY out of your accts and give you shares in the bank
XOOM
Thanks my bad read it wrong
YEPPERS
But ""THAT CAME AND WENT"":
Like most things
Sort of like """NO MAN SHALL KNOW THE TIME OR DATE"""
We just have to wait for THIS game to come to IT's own end
I still contend it will be real close , but you just don't tell the truth
FRED
YOU DO MEAN MY WAG based on what was NOT ASSUMED by the acquirer
"" is your $16.41 per share, GUARANTEE"
I do not make guarantees
THIS IS JUST SIMPLE MATH
3.5 Assets Not Purchased by Assuming Institution
3.5 (l)Excluded Securities
the securities listed on the attached Schedule 3.5(1)
THEN THIS SHOWN I GREEN
$256,846,259.85
Was shocked we didn't make it last week really
GOTTA KNOW WHEN TO HOLDEM AND KNOW WHEN TO FOLDEM