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I am not going to waste any more time on this board after I respond to your questions concerning my post.
First of all, the six people I was referring to are operations people. They would not be involved in raising funds. They would only be responsible for building the plant and getting it up and running efficiently as quickly as possible.
As far as dilution is concerned, have you seen what Dan has done with dilution over the past two years. The number of shares has doubled and has not contributed one cent to the value of the company. The 5% stock dividend last year was nothing but a publicity stunt. You talk about killing shareholders, every time Dan goes to the Middle East I hold my breath fearing that us shareholders will take it in the shorts
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If Dan would just get Morocco and India generating projected revenue and income, we would have investors and banks pursuing CLNV. I have no idea what Dan has been doing this past year, but he certainly hasn’t helped the shareholders.
Every time Dan does an interview or makes a public statement I can hardly stand to listen, he is so embarrassing. As I said, I am done posting on this board until the company replaces Dan.
Dan Bates may be one of the nicest guys in the world, I really don’t know. I do know that he is one of the most ineffective CEO’s I have ever seen. Based on the past two years he clearly has no operational skills. I know at least six people who would have the West Virginia operation up and running within nine months after the plans and funds have been approved. I have zero confidence that Dan can make this happen within two years.
I once thought that he at least had administrative skills but after the recent events he has proven himself to be weak in this area also. I firmly believe in the process; however it is obvious that Dan cannot make it happen. We need to get an effective leader at the helm before it is too late. There is time but the clock is ticking.
This is why I have invested in CLNV and their pyrolysis technology. Chemically recycling post-consumer plastic back into virgin resin has been around for years. The biggest obstacle is that it is not economically competitive with virgin resin. There are a number of other technical challenges that are too numerous to mention. Mechanically recycling post-consumer plastic has been around for years but has probably penetrated into the commercial market as far as is possible. The disadvantages are: it cannot be used in direct contact with a food product, you can have it in any color you want as long as its black, (milk bottles and PET bottles are the exception), many end products require a multilayer/multi-material structure to keep the recycled resin away from the product.
Post consumer HDPE and PET containers are the only resins that are recycled in significant quantities, PP, PVC, LDPE and a number of other resins are recycled from post-industrial scrap but that is a whole different story. You also have to remember that within a specific resin, i.e. HDPE, there are different grades: blow molded, injection molded, extrusion molded etc..,etc., etc.
The technology that CLN has will solve most of these issues. That and the fact that I believe Hydrogen is the fuel of the future. Within 10 years we will see more hydrogen powered cars and trucks on the road than battery powered cars and trucks. My major concern is that Dan Bates will figure out a way to screw it up..
I normally get paid for providing information such as this for companies but because I believe in the technology and want this company to succeed I will provide it gratis.
CLNV’s first priority should be to get Morocco up and running at capacity to demonstrate
1. that the technology works, produces top quality hydrogen
2. that it is profitable at rated capacity ,
3. that they have a supply of post consumer plastic that meets their required pounds and quality needs
4. they are not creating more environmental problems than they are solving
Why would anyone fund a project when it has a plant that has been operating for over a year and has yet to prove all of the above?
Dan should get his ass on a plane and head to Morocco and not leave until he has the plant operating in a manner that he would be proud to showcase to any entity interested in investing in this technology.
I have visited over fifty plastic recycling facilities in my career. While I have not visited CLNV’s Morroco operation I have studied the pictures and video suppled by the company and have concluded the following:
The plant isn’t processing squat. If it was, you would see bales and bales and bales of plastic all around.
You would also see multiple forklifts scurrying all over the plant
The plant would not appear as pristine as it does. Recycling plastic is a dirty business.
Bottom line is that Dan has done nothing to impress. In fact I cringe at some of the things he says during his interviews.
Every post that I have made on this board has ended with the very positive statement; “I believe in the technology and the company”. My criticism has always been towards the CEO who appears to not be up to he task.
Now would you please tell me one thing in the past year that Dan has done that has contributed to the bottom line.
If you can tell me one statup that Dan has turned into a profitable ongoing operation I will gladly issue a public apology.
Morocco
India
Arizona
West Virginia
Michigan
Etc,etc,etc
At least one of these should be making significant contributions to the bottom line. I have personally built a plastic recycling facility from green field to running profitably at 50 million pounds output in less than a year. It’s not that complicated.
I am afraid that the first quarter results will be disappointing again.
I think we would be better off sending Bozo the Clown to close this deal in West Virginia than Dan Bates. I am still trying to figure out exactly what Dan does other than constantly fumble the ball and issue stock options to himself.
This is such a shame. Hydrogen fuel has such a promising future and the technology CLNV has appears to be economically viable. Unfortunately Dan is not the person to make this company successful.
First of all, no one wants CLNV to be a success more than I do. I believe in the technology and in the right hands it will become a major supplier of hydrogen in the future.
Second, I specifically said not to cite Morocco as a success story and the first thing you list is Morocco .It may be later this year but as of today it is not.
Third, saying that the company is securing funding for West Virginia means nothing to me. When the funds are in the bank you can list this as an accomplishment.
Fourth, to state that I know nothing about this company is a statement of ignorance. You know nothing about my experience in this industry or the research I have done.
Fifth, never tell me or anyone else to definitely sell this or any other stock. It could be a serious violation of your fiduciary responsibility.
No his is not a joke. Please tell me one project that has come in on time, on budget and that is showing any return. And do not cite Morocco because as of last quarter it wasn’t contributing anything.
I think you are missing my point. I strongly believe in the process. If we could get the right management team this stock could soar.
I think you are missing my point. I strongly believe in the process. If we could get the right management team this stock could soar.
I am still trying to understand exactly what Dan does. As best I can determine he:
Travels the world burning through cash
Negotiates “deals” that never materialize
Issues millions of shares to himself
Gives on line interviews and says nothing
Etc
Etc
Etc
Enough is enough
I am a firm believer that Hydrogen will be a major source of energy in the future. Better than solar, better than wind, better than electric cars.; better than most fossil fuels. I also believe that pyrolysis will be a major source of hydrogen. Pyrolysis has been around for decades; the only question has been whether it will be economically viable. I believed that CLNV had solved the problem and would go on to be a major source of hydrogen.
I still believe that CLNV can be successful however after following the company for two years it is abundantly clear to me that Dan Bates is not the man to make it happen. Mr. Bates may be a terrific person and maybe good at PR, but he is a terrible operations person. There should be at least six plants up and running now, generating profits and another dozen plants in the planning stages.
The past two years for funding this technology through grants (preferred) and low interest loans was never better. The prospects for funding in the future, while still possible, are nowhere near as good today as it was last year. I am so tired of hearing about potential projects that never materialize, funding that never happens, profits that are just a quarter away. It is time for new management.
You may be right. That is what I am trying to understand.
It's not just undesirable plastics in this "free" material. We found dead animals, yard waste, bricks etc. in some of the "free" material we took in. After fighting this for the better part of a year we decided we didn't want the "free" material.
You are stating the obvious! Of course, postindustrial is "cleaner" than post-consumer. However, postindustrial is significantly more expensive than post-consumer which impacts your margins. Making a margin of 60% to 70% a pipe dream.
There is no way that the margins can be between 60% and 70%. The only way this can happen is if the "free" plastic is 90% pure, which I can assure you it is not. When I ran a plastic recycling operation, the most expensive feedstock we processed were the "free" bales. If you can get yields of above 50% you are doing great. The cost to sort out the contaminates and dispose of them makes this "free" material very expensive. Then there is the problem of PVC. All it takes is for a few PVC containers to completely ruin a ton of "good" material. Then you have to completely shut down the process and purge the PVC before the line can run again. All of these issues can be dealt with, but it takes capital investment and there is a cost.
Thank you for your reply. It was most informative.
I know what the contract says! What are they actually processing daily (weekly , monthly)? I'm just a stockholder that is trying to get some basic facts which is proving to be very difficult. This concerns me very much.
Again, you post meaningless numbers. HOW ABOUT SOME TIME FRAME! You are losing credibility by the minute. I am ready to place you on ignore if you continue to publish such drivel.
Wow, you obviously don't know much about the plastic or recycling industry. To begin with Clean Seas does in fact recycle. Plastic recycling is defined as the process of converting plastic waste into other products. Since you seem to know so much about CLNV please post some hard data. Begin with how many pounds of waste plastic both India and Morocco are feeding into the process on an annual basis. If both of these locations are taking in less than 100 million pounds each on an annual basis, they can never be profitable.
No projections or hopeful numbers, just what are they doing as of today. Fanciful projections, dubious timelines, hopeful funding. The pie in the sky statements are a thing of the past. It is time to present some accurate data.
Dan Bates may be the most ineffective CEO ever, all he does is announce "Deals" and then nothing. For example:
Deal with University of Arizonia and the Walton Foundation to build a plant. over a year ago. Then nothing
Deal in Michigan to build a plant over 9 months ago. Then nothing.
Deal to build a plant in West Virginia over 6 months ago. Then nothing
I could go on and on with the "Deals" Dan has landed but what is the point???
Hell, I don't even know what is going on in Morocco, but I have a feeling that it isn't good.
I built a plastic recycling plant from greenfield to operating in six months.
Dan can't get out of his own way. I am tired of "Announcements about Deals. I want to see facilities up and running and I want to see financial results. This is sound technology. Dan just isn't capable of making it happen.
I have always felt that the potential for CLNV is off the charts. Recently the rumors that they could be getting some significant funding that that is nondilluting has given me more optimism on the future of this company; and then I listen to Dan Bates being interviewed on The Street podcast. Dan Bates may be the most unimpressive CEO I have ever heard. Mr Bates answers are mostly fluff, very sparse on details and full of outright inaccuracies. As an example, in this podcast Mr Bates says that there are 7 types of plastic used for packaging. This is so wrong that it is almost laughable.
There are 7 Resin Identification Codes. The first six are specific resins. The #7 is a catchall category for all other less common resins such at nylon and polycarbonate and at least 25 other resins. I could give other examples of Mr Bates faux pas but you get the point.
I am begging you CLNV: please put someone more knowledgeable on the science of plastic packaging in front of the microphone in the future. You can certainly do better
At this point, I don't want to hear about any contracts that have been signed, any supply agreements, future appearances on podcasts or anything else until I see some hard data out of Morocco. Until it is proven that CLNV has a process that can push through the pounds of scrap plastic at significant volumes then all this other "news" is just spam. I don't even expect them to be operating profitably, I just want to see some numbers. Not some projections about future expectations but what have they done in Morocco this past month??????? Is that asking too much??????
What I want to see is very simple. Highlight one operation that is generating the revenue and income that will demonstrate that they have the supply chain, customer base and technology that will justify the investment. Once they demonstrate they have a solid business model everything you listed will follow.
Until then it is all talk.
If anyone thinks that Dan knocked it out of the park then they must have been watching a different program than I was watching. Dan is great at talking and not saying anything new, just rehashing old news and pushing everything out another 6 to 12 months.
I have been waiting for him to say something of significance but it never happens. Dan may be one of the least impressive CEOs I have ever seen. There is such a great opportunity with this business but he continues to fumble the ball.
If anyone thinks that Dan knocked it out of the park then they must have been watching a different program than I was watching. Dan is great at talking and not saying anything new, just rehashing old news and pushing everything out another 6 to 12 months.
I have been waiting for him to say something of significance but it never happens. Dan may be one of the least impressive CEOs I have ever seen. There is such a great opportunity with this business but he continues to fumble the ball.
In theory you are correct however I would compare the pyrolysis method that CLNV is using to nuclear fusion; once you begin the process it is self sustaining.
As long as CLNV has a virtual infinite supply of waste plastic and their process is very efficient, they will have no problem generating hydrogen fuel economically. Collecting all this waste plastic that has not been efficiently collected is obviously key to their success .
I understand that there are a lot of “ifs” in what I have said above and I am trying to get a better understanding of their process but at this point it appears that it will work.
I would appreciate any feedback from anyone who can provide more information.
I have been watching the collapse of Silicon Valley Bank and the implications to CLNV are very concerning. If the Fed does not step in by Monday and guarantee the money of depositors at SVB then loans to small startup companies like CLNV will either become nonexistent or extremely expensive.
This risk applies not only to CLNV but many small and midsized companies that need loans to meet their expenses. Keep a close eye on the Fed over the next few days. If they step in with guarantees for deposits of at least $25 million then the danger will pass. If the Fed does nothing, we’ll look out. We could be looking at a banking crisis every bit as big as 2008.
Could you please explain where the $50 million in revenue comes from? My back of the envelope calculation estimates that some where between 200 and 300 million pounds of plastic waste would have to be processed annually.. Now I’m not saying that this cannot be done but I have no idea where you could source that much waste plastic within 500 miles of Phoenix.
This company has so much potential and yet the results have been very disappointing. The preliminary number I have seen from Morocco are only about 25% of what I was expecting. The follow up on the projects at ASU, Michigan, India, etc has been nonexistent.
I am so tired of the company blaming the shorts for the poor stock performance. Declaring a 5% stock dividend is a nice ploy but at the end of the day it did nothing to improve the long range stock performance. I keep expecting someone from the company to publish some meaningful data that shows how the company intends to attain its financial goals along with a realistic timeline.
Clearly Dan Bates is not the person who will make this happen.
You are totally missing the point. You have put the horse before the cart. You get your financing in place first, then you begin construction. You do not begin construction until you have your costs covered.
Would you begin building a million dollar house before you had your financing in place? I don’t think so. This is how an effective CEO would proceed with a plan.
I can support that Dan is not the model CEO a lot of posters claim he is. I built a HDPE recycling plant that went from greenfield to producing over 40 million pounds of bottle grade pellets annually in 8 months. I had no experience in plastic recycling and can assure you that I was not a model CEO. I just assembled a team that got the job done.
I really don’t think that you do get it. I believe that this could be a very successful and game changing process and have invested a fair amount of my money in this company. I want it to succeed more than anyone on this board. However I will not standby idly when someone someone posts revenue on a plant that is inflated 10X. I want facts not pipe dreams. I am sure that Dan has done some wonderful things. However, when it comes to his major objective, get these plants up and running efficiently as quickly as possible, his results have been pretty disappointing.
I really don’t want to hear another word from Dan about all the potential future projects he is working on until he publishes hard data showing his first plant is producing the predicted results.
I don’t ask for much, just results.
I don’t have a degree in math but I was taught that $50k per month is $600k per year, not $6 million.
That’s revenue not earnings. They have to be pushing a lot more material through the system for this to be economically viable.
You would be correct if the input is coming from the municipal waste stream; however my understanding is that a lot of their input is coming from rivers, lakes and the sea, if this is the case then it would contain very little metal and glass since they would sink.
I listened to Dan’s interview on CEO BLOC and am more confused than ever. Dan stated that they are not interested in recycling PET (1) or HDPE (2). Well, somewhere around 75% of municipal plastic waste is PET or HDPE. (industrial plastic waste is a whole different animal). I have no idea how you would separate these 2 resins from all the other resins or why you would even want to do this if you don’t want to process the HDPE and PET.
Dan stated that there are only 7 types of plastics in the post consumer waste stream which is just not true. There are 7 numbers used by the Resin Identification Code system. The first 6 identify a specific plastic and the number 7 is a catchall for all other plastics and packages made from multiple plastics. Hell, even within a specific resin there are various grades so I would guess that there are at least 70 types of plastics used in packaging.
Dan is just too flippant in many of his comments. He needs to be more precise.. This is a very technical business.
Also, he gave us no hard data as to what is going on in Morocco or anywhere else.
Please publish an agenda as to what Dan is going to be talking about such as:
Update on Morocco operation
Total tons in and out on an average day
Does the plant have have secure markets for it’s output
I don’t expect any financials (in fact I would expect that they are losing money for the next few months)
What is the real status of the Phoenix project
Where does India stand?
Where does Michigan stand?
If this is just going to be a rehash about the wonderful things that Dan is doing to protect shareholders from “shorts”. Then tell him to save his breath and do something productive.
I sincerely hope that you are correct. I have a lot invested in this company!!!!!
I have no idea what 20 tons per day means. Is this input or output? Is the yield 90%, 50% 10%? I imagine that the quality of the feedstock is pretty low and that the yield is closer to 50% than 90%.
I really believe in the process and think it could be a game changer. I am just tired of Dan giving us data that is very close to worthless. The more he talks the more concerned I become. Why Dan is wasting his time on podcasts that talk about “naked shorts “ baffles me. Let Frank handle this detail. Dan needs to give us the data that demonstrates he has a business that is delivering the results he promises. If he does this I will assure you the “naked shorts” will be toast.
I just have this uncomfortable feeling that Dan is in way over his head.
I am so disappointed in Dan Bates. He is great at giving interviews where he talks about meaningless topics, comes up with schemes that have no long term value and traveling the world doing God knows what. His operating results have been dismal.
This business has so much promise and we could not ask for better timing and yet the company has shown us noting in regards to building a sustainable business. It appears that he has no operating skills.
WILL DAN EVER GIVE US MEANINGFUL HARD DATA? It appears not!!!!!!
I am not concerned about cash flow, I want to see some numbers on throughput . If they can report that they have achieved the equivalent of 20,000 tons on an annual basis they have a winner. If they can only do 10,000 tons annually then the business model is suspect. I’m not asking for much, just give me the most basic of information.