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"If the foreign investment committee has not approved the sale by January 15, the deal could still close by transferring A123 to a trust controlled by U.S. citizens, which would not need CFIUS approval."
US Citizens? As in taxpayers? As in Obama's research group? How about transferring it stock holders and let us liquidate it. LOL
Just speculating:
That JCI didn't chase the initial bid too high because the 7.5M difference between they and the Chinese might provide enough fodder to get the Feds/politicians involved to protest. Meanwhile, Wanxiang was indeed prepared to bid much higher than the 260M they needed to at auction. Remember, some thought all along the Chinese were going to have to go WAY over the top to dismiss the political tide and let the market speak. That's why they've brought the additional 90M to the table today, PERHAPS?
dvb, I have to reiterate the following...this is pathetic whining. Who exactly was responsible for not informing you of what was going on? You are aware that this deal closed about 12 hours after the market closed on Friday?
LOL. Dig it! I'm with you!
Whose got big balls?
justdino's got big balls!
Yep. I'll hold on my 350K. And, I'll hope to lower my position by day trading on tomorrow and Tuesday's volume. I expect the politicians will throw a tizzy and send this thing bouncing in both directions. Meanwhile, what's with those millions of shares owned by Wanxiang? With Illene in the pipeline on Tuesday we should have a good read on how this unfolds as it happens....unlike the weekend.
I think I'm with you. Although I'd feel a little better had these guys decided to take happy hour last Friday and come back fresh on Monday morn instead of running the show until 4am.
Government could intervene here I suppose and cancel Chinese deal...after all that's what all the whining has been about for weeks and I don't expect it will be any quieter tomorrow on that front. And, that's why the pps was as low as it was to begin with.
Maybe some sweet Obama bailout is in order, a graceful solution for all. USA! USA! USA! He's quite proud of the fact that he saved GM. And, A123 was another one of his babies. It was just an unbaked preemie that could still grow big.
I'm a doctor, a lawyer, a cpa, a real estate broker, a rocket science, and a judge.
Anyway, we will know come Tuesday.
http://soaveenterprises.wordpress.com/2012/12/02/soave-enterprises-helps-develop-innovative-new-battery-recycling-process-at-mps-group/
I've posted this a couple of times. Under the radar news perhaps?
12/2/12
Anyone have any insight on this?
Illene's initial comments yesterday were predicated with "Sounds like there is unrest here today, and that's to be expected in these cases. Unfortunately, there are people who use this unease to their trading advantage and are happy to fan the flames by manipulating the price when they can." The other comments were an effort by her to answer some questions that were directed to her by others on this board. She's a professional with guarded optimism. She understands the high risk/high reward of the situation at play and she also understands the weight of her words to this audience so she doesn't throw them around lightly. I don't believe she was framing her comments yesterday to suggest that shareholders "move on" or that we've already lost the game. Rather she was simply trying to respond to some questions briefly and efficiently. She's preached patience and openness all along. Give a little respect DVB. She's the most reputable source we have.
Maybe they just need a government bailout? LOL...oh wait a minute US already gave them 250M to try to foster this technology at home. Now everyone whines that "Obama picked a loser" and the government should not be meddling in such a way and yet they also whine that A123 is too valuable to US to allow to be foreign owned and therefore the government should intervene by any means necessary.
Battery recycling (link below): this could be one small slice of the future aone you speak of...this was written just 5 days ago...maybe it was written about 6 months ago...i don't know, but it sure didn't get any air time this week if it is new news. Although they have developed this process its hared to say how valuable it is at this time.
http://dotnet.sys-con.com/node/2467493
Agreed.
I'm all in all balls. And, my balls must be bigger than my head because this is stupid. 350K at .083.
I like the controversy and the drama LOL. A case can be made that it only raises the stakes. Even if China takes it and the wraith of the Government and Politico's bear down I am not so concerned. My only concern is the amount of the bid. It's plausible that the deal gets knocked down, but if the bid is nice and high then it would stand to reason that the next bid down the line (if they are indeed bidding in small increments) is a healthy one as well. We still win.
In Peace,
Cold Mountain
http://www.law360.com/technology/articles/399388/-doe-wants-to-block-deposition-on-stake-in-a123-assets-
Regarding A123 Quash Deposition, just posted 30 min ago
Somebody please sign up for a Trial offer on this website so we can all read it. Thanks :)
Cold Mountain
http://insideevs.com/a123-auction-underway-as-four-bidders-emerge-while-fisker-waits/
"It appears that A123's proprietary value is truly being appreciated only after its demise."
"Even if the auction is tied up quickly, there is no guarantee their supply chain will be made whole, as A123 (and its bidders) are looking to rid themselves of the supply contract with Fisker by asking the bankruptcy judge to void the contract because it is “below market” value, and as such can be vacated under Chapter 11."
"With other smaller interests also said to be looking at acquiring some of A123's lesser pieces, Bojan Guzina, an attorney representing Wanxiang said the auction could run into next week."
Dang, I sure hope USA has more to bring than 125M + 120M and a patriotic smile. For as much money as some of us have on this, we should be down on Wacker Ave in Chicago right now shining shoes or bribing lovely women to flock all over these auction participants. Any true hint of some numbers would help right now.
Well, I didn't lose money today. LOL. It has felt like I jumped aboard the sinking Titanic in hopes of collecting whatever silverware I could find. But, damnit, that silverware has got to be worth something!
I'm holding very long on 350k. Daddy needs a new pair of shoes.
Btw, please forward any urgent news to me first.
In Peace, Cold Mountain
great...except there is no court. not today.
if you have more complete and accurate info then by all means share.
It would stand to reason that morning was the time for small players at this auction to have their moment. The longer this rolls the better. No news could be good news since the longer it rolls the higher it goes, right? If it rolls into Fri then we know there are some players at the table.
Perhaps the morning volume was likely shorts panicking and those who jumped in at .06 selling.
Lunch Break Leak?
I'll be looking for a lunch break leak in Chicago and hopefully a break up.
On that note, I think I'll grab some lunch and take a leak.
Depends on how slow they want to play it.
If someone comes in over the top, then this auction could go quickly. Many bidders will bite the dust if the stakes rise very fast.
http://www4.gsb.columbia.edu/chazen/globalinsights/article/7228717/The+Messy+Path+to+Clean+Energy
Below is a general article, however somewhere he has said same for Aone bid. They are prepared to lose money for 5-10 years on this was the essence of his comment. (somebody else dig up that quote for me...i'm lazy.)
Pin Ni of Wanxiang regarding clean energy May 2012
Meanwhile, though, clean energy companies “have to prepare for bad weather ahead,” he said. Although joining with the right partners can increase chances of success, “if you’re not prepared to lose money,” said Ni, ”don’t invest in this business.”
Buy rather than create. Instead of developing technologies and projects from the ground up, Wanxiang America looks for added value by buying some companies and entering joint ventures with others. “We look for each side to bring something unique, situations where one plus one equals more than two,” he said.
http://www.menafn.com/menafn/14e43ec6-3dc4-4074-9951-fde36f2c5ea5/Assets-of-bankrupt-A123-Systems-to-be-auctioned-today?src=main
I like the tone of this one. Can you hear it? It sounds like: "Cha-Ching!"
I like your odds better :)
I can only hope the decision to bail on the original 465M offer was in the interest of Wanxiang "making dirty boy clean again" as Pin Ni stated. And, in the interest of AONE in that they will hopefully realize the maximum value for their assets through the open auction process.
I just hope the big boys have the balls to bring it to the table tomorrow because I'm all balls til i bust on this.
Cold Mountain
You're right about that: I shouldn't be here. LOL. Closed bids were in yesterday. I was hopeful for some leaky bounce yesterday, but PPS as low as ever. Like most here, my optimism is guarded. Gimme your odds.
In retrospect, I think my odds would have been better to take my money to the Vegas roulette table on this one. 47% chance of doubling up there just by betting "Red"
6% chance it goes for 150M-250M
34% chance it goes for 250M-350M
37% chance it goes for 350M-450M
17% chance it goes for 450M-5500M
6% chance it goes for 550M+
In other words, I'm giving it a 77% shot to finish under 450M.
And, I'll throw in an 14% shot at 500M.
Let's see your odds?!
Peace,
Cold Mountain
That's the whole problem here and that's why we are under .06: it's not an even playing field. JCI has certainly got some home field advantage going. It would seem the US Gov would allow them to obtain the Grant benefits (both the 130M already paid and perhaps the 119 still due) without any strings attached. It is obvious there will be compensation requested by the US Gov for the 130M invested if a foreign company, esp. chinese, wins the bid. Likely not that entire amount but a significant portion. And, the bidders know this to be true. So, it would seem if a foreign company has any chance then they are going to have to come in heavy with a very big bid. They are going to have to concede the military contracts (possibly to the new Research group??) and perhaps lose the 119M in grant money (likely to the new Research group). It's going to take a huge bid by a foreign company to show that money talks. Because if it is even close, then JCI will somehow end up with it.
I suppose it has been stated that they want everything sold as a whole. I am not following this well enough to know if that is true. But, it would seem to me that the best course for everyone is if it is broken up.
As for 20 bidders...we'll see how many bring the real money to the table. You have to figure most of them were just sniffing around for a deal.
I think we need 500M to have a chance at green and 600M has me breathing easier. Everything beyond that is cheese or icing, whatever your preference.
I'm holding 350k at .083 and i'm bailing out of a board retreat at a remote mountain lodge tomorrow so I can drink whiskey ginger's all day tomorrow...and probably the next.
Peace, Cold Mountain
360m on the debt side seems like an undershot? What about bk costs, management payments, recent operational costs.
Furthermore, is there any chance US looks for compensation for the 130m grant money?
Will National security portion be carved out and handed to JCI or new research group in the cheap?
I'm hoping for the best but trying to see the unexpected or worst case outcomes?
A few new Perry Coleman comments
how does the judge come to a value number of AONE's total value when deciding this case? bids are one thing but far and large they in no way describe the companies real dollar value do they?
2 Dec, 01:48 AMReplyLike0
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Perry Coleman Comments (89)
At this point the company is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. The auction process allows that worth to be realized. AONE has strategic value, hard assets and intellectual property. The biggest problem right now is the political wrangling. There are already processes in place to prevent US technology from getting into foreign hands, so the politicians should back off to allow for a true competitive bid process (they won't). But it's going to get hot next week. All will still bid and there are some lurking in the shadows that will come out after the bidding has begun. Not all have chosen to tip their hand yet.
2 Dec, 10:41 AMReplyLike0
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haleiwahu Comments (2756)
It'll be interesting if China will even be allowed to bid on the remains unless they agree to create employment in the US or however that would work. Maybe they would return the $250m grant money by reducing that same amount from the $4+t that the US owes them!
2 Dec, 02:48 PMReplyLike0
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Perry Coleman Comments (89)
They have already said that they will keep US Jobs. I doubt they will pay the money back. The issue is US Technology. No oversight or politician will let the US be paid to forget about the national security issues. It might work if the defense portion is allocated the money and directed to a US buyer.
Did the 131M bid come as an effort to simply obstruct the JCI deal and kick this thing further down the court? Even if they would have threw out a number like 400M, would the results be the same at this point: BK Auction? If so, I suppose we could regard that 131M bid as irrelevant. I really don't know how to make sense of them going from 465M to 131M. I know little; I'm just postulating here.
Who knows their stuff well enough to weigh in on the questions below? What's your guess?
1) How deep is the debt including all debtors, ceo bonuses, bk costs, break up fees and what about compensation to DOE for grant money already collected if China takes it? 400M/425M/450M/475M/500M more/less? The most educated guess I've heard so far is 438M plus BK costs.
2)What's the value of the assets? (is the 100M+ unpaid grant from DOE included in their clamied asset value? if so, what happens to this if US Gov objects?) 360M/410M/460M/510M? more/less? 511M seems to be the latest number.
3)How many common shares are out there? 315M/320M/330M/340M more/less?
Worst case with a 500M bid that flies: 500M bid - 450M debt/340M sh = .147 pps
The big question in my head is how much are the chinese going to have to compensate the US Gov in order to get this through? That's a wild card.
Peace, Cold Mountain
More Math
I see that Fri news (although not well reported) appears to open the door for Chinese to make a solid bid, however it would appear the US Gov is still reserving "the right to request compensation for its attributable percentage of the...Funded Property." Their bid is good, however conditions may need to be met.
"Debtors can sell the Funded Property without further consent of the United States, subject to any interests of the United States in the sale proceeds as described in Bid Procedures Order, specifically, the Debtors-United States Agreement that if the United States does not consent to an assignment then the United States will have its rights satisfied by receiving, from the Debtors’ bankruptcy estate (including the proceeds of the sale),
compensation for its attributable percentage of the current fair market value of the Funded Property as provided under 10 C.F.R. §600.321.(f)."
You say there are not court claims from DOE on the approx. 125M in grants received. However, it would seem the above US Report issued Friday will give the US Government an out in terms of satisfying tax payers investment. In other words, might a Chinese bid only go through the US government hoops if there is some compensation paid back. If so, does this imply that the Chinese need to outbid US by a sizeble amount in order to make the deal fly.
It would appear this group is tempering their expectations some. I recall several nights ago everyone was throwing around 1B dollar values. I'm just trying to wrap my head around the math that is on the table. When the actual numbers start to fly next week I want to be able to understand what they mean. What will a 600M overall bid mean to the pps? You dig?
Peace, Cold Mountain
Let's do some Math
I'm new to this board and the BK process although I have been following A123 for the last few months. I'm here to learn what I can.
Who knows their stuff well enough to weigh in on the questions below? What's your guess?
1) How deep is the debt including all debtors, ceo bonuses, bk costs, break up fees and what about compensation to DOE for grant money already collected if China takes it? 400M/425M/450M/475M/500M more/less?
2)What's the value of the assets? (is the 100M+ unpaid grant from DOE included in their clamied asset value? if so, what happens to this if US Gov objects?) 360M/410M/460M/510M? more/less?
3)How many common shares are out there? 320M/330M/340M more/less?
Peace, Cold Mountain