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The next month could be interesting with Mr. Wu's claim along with the joinder. Doubt the letter by Mr. Olivo has any chance other than it may pull on the heart strings of Chapman as she considers Wu's claim.
I am still in the camp of a post bk play but I do like the approach they are taking.
I recall someone posted the final tax return by Nov '19 so this is shaping up to be an active year.
As Dr. Strange said "we are in the End Game now".
As I recall LBI is a sub of LBHI. LBI had subs as well like derivative, financial and other special finance entities.
If they were planning to spin off a newco I would certainly think the language of a "including, if necessary, a post closing vehicle" is about a good as it gets at this stage in the process until the end game is actually announced.
I am of the opinion that the guarantee applies. My logic is that CTs are/were considered T1 capital and as such would qualify under the QFC (Qualified Financial Contract) and be required to be satisfied as a "covered" contract at the beginning of this whole debacle.
Given the haste at which this BK happened rather than a typical planning phase which should have been months instead of days they were overlooked. I cannot imagine being in the small group of folks that had to deal with this when they were told they were screwed. I bet they were 100% confident on day 1 they were going to get a life line and on day 2 bk. To be a fly on that wall.
I have a suspicion that Mr. Wu owns substantially more than 24k and only disclosed this amount to show proof of claim.
No clue on his actual occupation but pretty sure he has been here for years.
I agree with your previous post as well, lets see what the court says before the next move.
Jers,
The letter does not appear to solidify payment to just him. He is asking the court to put the CTs in class 4B or the best class determined per the provisions of the confirmation order and accept the guarantee claims.
His share information seems to just validate proof of claim.
This letter format seems familiar to what Wayne was eluding to a bit ago.
Regardless, a well written letter, now lets see what the court does with it.
I recall we have picked this logic apart prior. The scenario you mention occurs in pre-bk filing. Once a person or firm files it creates an automatic stay for creditors. The court is now in control, not the creditor. So in the example a creditor who is owed $50M on a $100M asset cannot collect per their wishes. They have to follow the rules and payment plan in the bk process.
Regrading audits, you are probably correct on the outside firm audits but the key language that I have read on many reports is "not according to GAAP". That may have changed on the recent reports as I have not been keeping on the reading recently.
The world of bk is extremely difficult to navigate and this one takes the cake. There are so many rules and methods when one item trumps another and vice versa it is crazy. Not a chance someone on the outside knows 100% how this will all end, heck probably on the inside too.
Bottom line to me is we do not get a nickle (or Jers' $5) out of this until the bk ends and some other entity emerges with CTs and OBS tagging along. Also, the longer it goes the higher the pay back percentages per class get the more likely to me a spin off will happen.
Summer is almost here...best time of the year!
Ex.D just shows what 10B is allocated. Ex.A shows who is getting paid and in the footnotes 10B is being re-distributed.
Stock,
I like the nugget about Seaport. A little google and the CEO appears to be x-Lehman at the parent company, Seaport Global. Now why would an x-Lehman guy with "expertise is distressed investments" head a company that was involved with placing a $180M bet on an empty carcass Lehman after all these years?
Combine this with the article's other interesting morsels of electing to receive substitute notes, canceling of notes and partial wind down language it sure makes me think the end is near and supports the theory of a re-emerged entity.
Jers I feel your pain. I thought I was the only one with unlucky kids-n-cars. My oldest on car #3 at 20 and my 18yo daughter just got her car t-boned today. 3rd kid turns 16 in a month who was supposed to get that one. 4th kid at 12. I’ve created a hobby of buying kid cars.
Joe, I do not think they missed this. With 48M shares and no trading volume for many years I placed my bet a long time ago that a few big boys own the vast majority of the CTs and, like us, are holding until the very end to see what happens.
I get what u r saying but I would like to see who sold and under what terms.... will do some searching.
Too, I like what u r thinking. So if Leh bought the asset w/o cash but instead future promised shares what would you suppose would be the bread crumbs to indicate that?
At that large a value it seems unlikely that an entity would sell without a legal document referencing the transaction. That would sure be a smoking gun about a re-emergence as well as value of the entity.
Happy New Year everyone although a bit late. Have not been here in awhile but good to see activity from the usual posters. Aaahh Da-bears...tough break. I like the bears but wanted to see the Vikings in the SB.
Dnoto, going to be in Boston in a cpl days and will try to make it there...thx for tip.
Master, how do you get to $2.5?
I have been in and out on this for last cpl years and been pretty happy with selling during the pops. I have been loading recently since cali vote but really cannot get my math to come up with much more than $0.50 for the near term...if looking at 3+ years then maybe I can get to a buck but man that will take massive revenue growth that I do not think they can hit.
Swiss, no value in crypto? Peer to Peer monetary exchange with NO government involvement is pretty valuable. I actually think it scares the $hit of government. A few years ago it was a joke and today I can go to many places where they accept bitcoin, including Subway & Overstock. Wait till Amazon accepts crypto. The rocket rise of crypto is being reasonably followed with the # of crypto wallets so it seems to be gaining in popularity as well.
Congrats on your boy...that is impressive. I am along similar lines. Just picked my boy up from college for his first weekend home. Sure sucks going from seeing him everyday to now once and then for holidays.
Yep we are all tired of the wait but for me it was good as the way it has been priced over the years I was able to keep adding to the pile for cheap. The longer it goes, the more money they recover, the more the stock market rises...the more I think we are in for a treat.
Would be cool to have a lehman party when this is over to celebrate. I might even a get a lehman t-shirt made.
Jers, not hiding just not here as much anymore although still accumulating a bit and trying to follow the bread crumbs.
How's your boy doing in school? Recall u taking a trip to drop him off.
Nice jers. Gave up on road bikes yrs ago. Too many people not paying attention to the road...busy on their phones..Still ride a dirt bike a bit. Wife and I like to drive our classic sports car. Put a race exhaust on so it is stupid loud so it is like my 4 wheel harley.
The "misconstrued the claim" comments are from JPM to cotton, not the court to cotton. Cotton sent the letter from JPM as an attachment with his to the court.
Am I mis-reading this docket?
I think we are all waiting to hear a response from the court.
Those are not boiler plate responses. I have reviewed a fair amount of financial reports both on going concerns and distressed firms and each and every time I review the financials the wording in the MDA is of critical importance. I am not in expert in billion dollar BK scenarios but this commentary does not pass as above board ...maybe in wild world of Lehman this is fine..
"millions and thousands" is a rounding error in this BK so it would be most likely be within GAAP to have adjustments of these magnitudes.
It does seem unlikely to uncover 200 billion but billions is plausible given the size of this and to do that you would have to report in the fashion they are reporting. They are basically stating they do not know the actual value of assets and liabilities....it is only an estimate and can MATERIALLY CHANGE.
Got to love the Note 1 disclaimer.
Any time a firm puts out financials and states that numbers are not audited nor prepared according to GAAP it is prudent to assume that there is a serious problem with the numbers and one should put much faith in them.
Given the size of Lehman and being in BK I do not know why this reporting decision was made as even the smallest of companies that have an accounting firm prepare reviewed or stated financials prepare their financials according to GAAP.
Now you are making work with a cut-n-paste on a holiday...I feel all cottony inside :)
Notice the key words: exchange traded below:
The Official List of Section 13(f) Securities primarily includes U.S. exchange-traded stocks (e.g., NYSE, AMEX, NASDAQ), shares of closed-end investment companies, and shares of exchange-traded funds (ETFs). Certain convertible debt securities, equity options, and warrants are on the Official List and may be reported
Over-the-counter (OTC) or off-exchange trading is done directly between two parties, without any supervision of an exchange. It is contrasted with exchange trading, which occurs via exchanges.
I am not an expert but the two pastes above seem to me to suggest that there is a plausible explanation to why we cannot simply search your link and find a big holder.
Will research the link, thanks.
My point was that the big boys may not be required by law to disclose holdings of CTs per form 13f. To your earlier point about now wanting to own BK stock because of the stigma, can you imagine having to answer questions about owning a sizeable portion of the outstanding shares of CTs? When did you purchase? Why did you purchase? Given the public info on how these are unlikely to see a return why not sell now given the price?
If I was a big boy and owned a sizeable stake and was not required to disclose I sure would not!
I have held the belief since day one that one to a few big boys own the vast majority of the CTs....just cannot prove it yet.
Stocks, I am thinking the form 13f you are referring to only lists exchange traded stocks so would that not make any big holder exempt from listing an OTC?
I agree as my most recent buys were last year. What I find odd is that my broker transferred me to a special services rep who could not provide any information on the change. If you have have it on your trade confirmation why would he not say the same thing to me??
Anway, with the recent up-list being a HUGE signal on the plan for the CTs...I am just going to...what is now....oh yeah, relax and have a coca cola.
Etrade has all my CTs listed as Callable Equity. I just called my broker and he said they have no information about a call on any of the CTs. He also said they typically get notification if there was a call pending.
Payout based on 20 quarters of compounding:
LEHKQ & LEHLQ: $9.30/share
LEHNQ: $9.07/share
LHHMQ: $8.67/share
Got lucky on some CTs today on an open order for weeks...8 small cents a share so you can still get them just got to be patient.
Even though I know the greys manipulate still cant understand why anyone would sell at this point at this small volume..seems too little to send any message.
I suspect the major holders have always held for two reasons:
1. I recall reading a post about the re-wording of the documents tied to the CTs prior to BK in terms of the guarantee which makes me think the big boys knew something and put some language in there to protect their investment
2. 5% ownership rule...something about if more than 5% changes hands then it kills the old/cold rules and potential use of NOLs.
Someone who knows more please chime in...
Ditto on the greys. IMO big money already holds the majority of the CTs and they know more than us (maybe not some of our genius posters) what the potential payout will most likely be...so no upward movement until...as a someone earlier stated..."BAM!"
FWI, this has been my take since day 1: Biggest BK in history, too many flows of money/assets to track down during intial BK proceedings, the "Guarantee" on the CTs, NOLs, etc, etc. I bought in pretty large on commons for a flip back in the days of "Coach" then through DD and the great insight of this board moved it all the CTs. Now just sitting and waiting patiently for....BAM!
Keep up the great posts and GLTA!
Even though the CTs are trading they are still being manipulated....the land of greys. I have open orders on all above the ask and have not got a single share in the past three weeks yet was able to do so a couple months ago with orders filling in about a week.