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well well well...Hestheman, it's so nice to have you as my new favorite "common man" poster of the day! Mr. Toogood and the King of Cotton have been getting all my love. So to you sir, I say welcome aboard the equity train! We'll be serving Dom Perignon champagne in the first class cabin soon...hopefully!
Cheers brother
Thank you for the dream brother!
Have a nice holiday.
cheers
Yes that does sound very nice Cotton! Would you care to guesstimate what the share price of LEH will be once the BK is "closed" and the currently escrow plan trust shares are trading again?
would be great to have your best guess with or without a merger.
I fully understand it's just pure speculation...but it is fun to dream big.
TYIA. Cheers
very much appreciated Toogoodfella!
cheers
got it. thanks a million. I must have missed that post about the original POR balance due of 76B. I'm on board now.
man that's some big news to me...only 30.5B remaining!
sorry toogoodfella...I'm pretty dense. what is the 53B balance?
I thought it was 65B - 22B paid = 43B owed.
what does the 53B pertain to? I'm just trying to keep up.
thanks
Hey Toogoodfella,
RE: Leman's Status now is in normal business operations with existing obligation to the balance from the 53B payable to creditors.
Isn't the balance due to creditors 43B? {65B owed - 22b paid = 43B}
is there something more i'm missing?
cheers
Thank you LD! I appreciate you keeping my head straight. LEH has "emerged" from BK, but not completely out of BK till the fat lady sings...i.e. Judge Peck
cheers brother
A wise investor once said..."Don't ever own a stock for 10 minutes that you wouldn't want to own for 10 years..."
and I actually plan on owning BIEL for 10 years. like many others here, I'm way upside down on this stock, so it doesn't make sense to sell...but I am a believer in the product. and it's fun to watch them build this new category of pain relief from the ground up. don't we all wish we were the first 187 shareholders in some other companies...IBM, Apple, Microsoft...many others.
Yep, I'm holding for the long haul...if you're just a gambler, you can do that in Las Vegas.
cheers all
Hi Toogoodfella, I hope all is well in your world.
That statement really says it all...
"Lehman is now out of Chapter eleven..The POR was approved"
So, with that being true, hasn't there already been a discharge of old debt? Or does that only occur after the POR approved $65B is paid out to the senior classes?
Do we know exactly which debts will be discharged if it has not occurred already?
Cheers brother
100% agreement...but you know the glorious and most powerful and all knowing big gubment FDA is only looking out for the American consumer...cough/cough/hack/yeck...sorry I almost threw up.
You have to know they care so very deeply for the safety of all of God's children of the world, and for all the unborn babies and little old ladies that might try to use one of these harmless devices. Besides Obummer hasn't had time to sign off on this yet...he's busy! I mean you wouldn't possibly think they could be in bed with Salonpas, do you or other big pharma? I mean it states right there on their package all the warnings and side effects...but that's cuz it's a dangerous drug and the FDA is the food and DRUG administration.
These bureauCRAP smorons don't know squat about any of these new fangled contraptions with all that space age, NASA type techno mumbo jumbo! just pop a pill or put on a patch that will leave a burn mark and it all goes away...
These are a bunch of sorry a/s/s gubment losers that can't see the forest for the trees! One would think that the FDA would walk, no run this thing thru their "process" just to be first in the world with approval...not dead last. This is just another wake up sign to get this worthless, feckless, reckless idiot of a president out of office. his type of lazy ass, do it tomorrow, oh well shucks attitude permeates throughout his gubment. change him and other democraps in gubment and we will start to change for the better. BTW...go see the movie 2016 - excellent movie.
I only get one post per day so I feel better now.
thanks all.
I agree...they are down right smart! The 3-4 hours would be specifically about the CT guarantee in BK proceedings.
cheers
Hey JerseyHawg, your governor did a great job last night at the GOP convention! But that's another subject for another day...
I just had a thought that I wanted to run past the board. It's evident that we have some great minds on here and the DD has been very well researched and deeply appreciated...and it's all been handled pro bono. I would gladly chip in for professional legal help on this CT Guarantee subject. I don't own CT's (only commons) but I want to own CT's. I would think 3-4 hours of top notch BK attorney time would benefit us greatly. What would we be looking at? something like $2000 for 4 hours work? Maybe use the law firm that also represents Marsel & Alverez! Maybe we could get 5 or 10 guys or more from this board to chip in? Like I said I'm in already, so we only need a handful more. One of the brain trust members could choose the right attorney and once we pay the attorney directly, in advance for 4 hours, he goes to work and provides his best advice.
Thoughts from all?
Cheers, Jim
Hey brother or sister, which ever you are...please remove the chip on your shoulder and rejoin the adult conversation. Plead your good case in complete sentences and the board will listen with unbelievable scrutiny, will read every single word and fully digest all you have to say until we are satisfied in full (LOL)...and we will deeply appreciate your free DD. BUT, your single biggest issue is how YOU come across. please stop attacking and start selling and teaching...you will attract more bees with honey!
unless of course you don't want anybody to buy CT's...could be. in that case just keep doing what you're doing.
cheers
imrichbeotch, I only get one post per day, so I won't be able to have a dialogue...but I don't see how you can read into this quote that BIEL was denied. He was just telling you that it's better to wait for another 3-4 years and dance with the FDA, then to receive a "final denied". It tells me just the opposite of your opinion...BIEL is still in the game.
I do however agree 100% with you that management is second rate and note ready for prime time...but that's the pinky world. Apple was created out of a garage...and today it's the center of the computer world - silicon valley.
Don't give up the ship just yet. yes summer is almost over and you'll loose that bet, but this thing could take a long long long time before we have total consumer saturation in the market. we are only seeing the tiniest tip of the iceberg right now. FDA is in the drivers seat right now. Hopefully soon they will approve and they get out of the drivers seat and we/BIEL steers the wheel for our own benefit.
all I know is this is not a scam. it is however an underfunded, small company with a very big idea, and managed by less than stellar senior management. BUT, when they finally get FDA approval I will call them geniuses...
Cheers
I hear ya brother and you are correct, they are different. BUT the similarities are that we are the new owners of a company that we bought in BK and now they have emerged from BK to live another day. Business people buy BK companies (lock stock and barrel) all the time in order to turn them around...we bought shares in a BK company and Marsel & Alverez turned them around...thank you M&A!
there is much more to come on this Lehman soap opera...
now we wait patiently to see if any of us get any money back from this investment. place your bets.
cheers
actually yes I would...I did, and you did also if you bought LEH in 09/2008...and I'm looking to buy some more now that all the nice folks on here have shown us the ways and means of guaranteed CT's!
Thanks again guys
all great DD this weekend guys! I'm sure I speak for the vast majority of the board in saying Thank you to the fantastic minds we have the privilege of hearing from everyday...
With the recent DD from Cottonisking, would you say it's a slam dunk (99.9998%) that CT's are guaranteed by law and MUST eventually pay out at FV, with all interest due - once the higher classes are "satisfied in full" ($65B settlement)?
If we were to perform a SWOT analysis on the CT's, what would it look like? Maybe the team can all take a stab at populating the items below. I will volunteer to compile the final chart and post it as one document for the board.
Strengths:
Weaknesses:
Opportunities:
Threats:
Cheers!
I second that! and I don't even own any CT's...YET. mucho commons but no CT's. I believe I will try very soon.
have a nice rest of the weekend.
Good Morning JerseyHawg,
I'm afraid you have an equally financially illiterate person in the boat with you, if you're asking me to interpret that SEC document...that's why I was asking Cotton if I had it right with my additions. with all the sub-note, senior debt, super deeper double secret probation subordinated indebtintures, while standing on your head and doing the hoky poky... It's hard to understand who's on first base...no who's on second, what's on first base...LOL
Hi Cotton,
Does this mean...
"the (senior debt) holders of a majority in aggregate principal amount of the Securities of such series Outstanding may on behalf of the holders of all the Securities of such series waive any past default (accept the 18 cents on the dollar as payment in full)[color=red][/color] or (BK negotiated settlement)[color=red][/color] Event of Default under the Indenture with respect to such series and its consequences, except a default in the payment of interest, if any, on or the principal of, or premium, if any, on any of the Securities of such series."
This is the BIG news...right?
Cheers
Good morning Hestheman and to the board.
I believe your post is spot on but would appreciate more reasoning as to how/why you come to this conclusion..."Most likely, reg preferred and common equity classes are done also."
haven't reg preferrds and commons already been cancelled and then placed in the OBS per the POR, to be managed by the plan trust board? this doesn't sound to me like we will be "discharged" like the higher debt classes can legally be discharged in BK once LEH completes the respective negotiated settlements with the POR voting classes of debtors.
Cheers
Hey Richbeotch, do you think the update today has a typo? it states the new packaging will read as... " 5% better results than OTC drugs and 100% safer"...5% are they kidding? seems like an incredibly small number to brag about on the package. I have never seen 5% before...shouldn't it be 50% better? typo? I hope so...
Are you still in Raleigh?
cheers
KUMBAYA...gentlemen. The board loves you both!
Post of the Day! so accurate it's almost scary. This is no longer conspiracy "theory"...it's conspiracy fact IMO. For all of Andy's shortcomings as an effective CEO to get this product moving outside of the USA, he does have tenacity. You can't learn, train or buy tenacity...and Andy has it. Good for us. That's why I stick around...I'm a gluten for punishment! oh BTW the products work terrific.
One would think that the head of FDA, upon seeing or hearing about BioElectronics products seeking approval, would do a small scale office trial with anyone that wants to volunteer. What's the harm? no gamma rays, no nuclear fusion...just a little science to heal swelling and pain. "Hey Mary, did that actipatch help your back, knee, ankle, elbow, shoulder?" yep sure did boss, thanks for letting me give it a try...we should approve that!
But noooo, that would just be asking way to much...
cheers all
Damn nice find Cotton! Man I feel like I owe you big time if and when this thing pans out. For sure I'm buying you a swanky dinner and if the pay-out is huge, the wine tab goes higher!
So let me get this straight...
Lehman EX employees have stock options and they are claiming that LEH should pay up on the claim. And LEH is saying fine, we'll pay, but we will pay you back by issuing you stock in the OBS.
is that correct?
Jerseyhawg,
I don't own any CT's but the quick math I just did indicates LEH owes you $8.83 per share.
$25 FV @ 6.24% annual interest compounded for 20 quarters or 5 years.
Your RICH! on paper at least. Please send me a check for $1000 for the 5 minutes I spent on this. BTW, I get paid Lehman BK lawyer rates...
I predict these CT's will start soaring in the near future...wait till the good news really starts hitting the streets that the mother ship is back in the air.
cheers!
same to you brother
I understand...I will read through it just to get educated...maybe I'll try to by some CT's before they shoot to the moon.
Thanks again for all your great DD. this is an exceptional board.
yep sounds right to me. I don't own any CT's so I may have glossed over your previous posts but this just sort of dawned on me tonight after ready cottons posts and inglesafi(?) (sorry i butchered your screen name, i know that's not correct spelling)
my only dog in the hunt is a boat load of commons that I want to cash in for $20 per share someday...did I mention I do alot of smokin...
cheers
what features are in your CT's that may benefit the mother ship? equity and NOL preservation? any others?
Cheers
That's good stuff Cotton! In your opinion what would keep LEH from just leaving CT's alone to grow on the open market, as they are doing now. It seems to me that LEH can and will pay off the $65B owed...sooner than 2016 with various IPO's and selling assets.
Then they have to bring the CT's current with overdue interest payments. The OBS plan trust escrow holders can end up anywhere the new board sends us...I believe I read that in the POR. When they do that - OBS is essentially paid off with new shares from the receiving company - no real obligation to OBS but it helps keep NOL's.
Then the current CT's remain traded openly on the stock exchange with a due date for FV redemption +/- 25 years away. Isn't it true that as long as they continue to pay +6% annual interest to CT holders they remain current on their obligation? Isn't that the less expensive way to go for the new Lehman?
I may be smoking too much crack though...it's all very complicated.
cheers
Hmmm...all very relevant points of view. can you expand on it further? what clues are you pointing to that OBS would receive shares from the pending IPO's, but still remain in escrow?
we appreciate the dialogue.
cheers
100% agreement...that's why I bought shares in 09/2008.
POR also hopefully means...Plan On Riches
Bastardized version of I Have A Dream speech...
"I have a dream that one day this ONCE GREAT LEHMAN BROTHERS COMPANY will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all THE ONE BIG SHARE HOLDERS are created equal." AND ALL THE CT'S ARE PAID BACK WITH INTEREST AT FV!
I agree with you Longarm...taking it with a little salt, BUT, it is doubtful the articles author just happened to make up and add the term "shareholders".
Sounds to me to be more like a purposed media PR issued from our new board of directors. We know they are looking for good and solid public relations with the stock buying public prior to the IPO.
John Q Public still has a good memory of LEH 2008 crash and may want to distance themselves from anything close to LEH. To say "to pay back creditors and shareholders" tells everyone they are at least semi-honorable...
Your thoughts?
Cheers
do you mean, we are not EVEN talking about NOL yet? so plus +++$50B?
It's looking good! or rather looking toogood!
Thanks for the update...you definitely keep my spirits very high as a common share holder. Man I hope this all comes to a close this year. would be a great xmas present to have Obummer gone and lehman back in the saddle, in some form.
cheers
dnoto, I have been a very satisfied reader of your informative posts for the past several years...
I forgive you for your past youthful stupidity, please don't let it happen again! LOL.
uhhh, that's been the debate for the past number of months. It's been fairly well proven that CT's are both debt & equity (LD = quasi).
But that's beside the point here for me right now...
I want to get something off my chest.
you sir apparently have some valuable things to say and you can probably even learn a thing or two from this discussion board. It's very apparent you are not a dummy, so I would ask one last time before I put you on ignore...please leave the attitude at the door.
Cottonisking and other great contributors have been and will continue to be a valuable contributors to this board and I for one do not like the way you reply to him and to others here.
I hope you will continue to contribute but please refrain from the smirks, mystery, intrigue, sarcasm, innuendos, holier than though, smarter than you, BS attitude.
if you see a guy that is about to slip on a banana peel...TELL HIM TO WATCH OUT! THERE'S A BANANA PEEL RIGHT BY YOUR FOOT.
Don't say hey man, too bad you slipped on that banana peel that I knew was there the whole time...
Cheers and please stay with us, not because we can't live without you, but only because we appreciate opposing points of view on this complicated BK subject.