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More like, "Wave--it takes a smearing, but keeps on shearing."
The passing of AWK--is sad. He was a worthwhile adversary in our many discussions about this maddening stock.
Wave is only a stock and both sides were a little over the top, myself included.
Human life is so precious and outweighs most other concerns.
RIP, AWK--from the loyal opposition (retired)
Blue
It would accomplish nothing. That's why I'm not doing anything.
Blue
Yes, I would submit I spent much of my whole career poking into dark corners. I never said Wave was the worst--just unique.
If I borrowed $20 bucks from you and told you I'd pay you back tomorrow, but didn't--instead, I said next week for payback and then next week, it will be the next next week, etc.
At some point, I expect v soon in our discussion, you would realize nothing I said could be counted on and you would act accordingly, when I came around to borrow more.
But some of the Wave supporters? They keep believing the payoff is coming in, no matter how many promises, deadlines, etc. are set--and not a single one has ever been met in my memory--going back to 1996.
At one point, circa 1998, November, the Wave CEO told a reporter Wave would begin shipping product the following month and would quickly ramp up to 10 million products shipped a month.
At this point, Wave did not have a product, nor a prototype--they had a design and the CEO had to know he was lying as he said it to the reporter. There was so much lying and misdirection to the news media by Wave mgt.
Yes, there is plenty of nefarious activity in the biz world and elsewhere--and Wave is hardly the worst offender, nor the largest.
But if you were a small wage-earner and you were naive enough to believe by next quarter you'd be rich beyond your dreams with just a few hundred Wavx shares...
If you continued to believe and continued to buy every time you got a spare dime, so after a few years, your investment purchases, not be huge by Wall St. standards, but by your standards, it is a lot of money--all thrown down the Wave rathole in exchange for some shaky and vague promises that 'next quarter' or the one after, it was all going to come true.
To that investor, if and when he/she realizes Wave is never going to pay off, it may be too late to find a good, reliable mutual fund using basic investing principles rather than fantasy, and not making black into white, or up into down as some of these hard-case supporters seem to do, repeatedly.
The scam is a common one but the uniqueness, IMO, is in the way the company has been supported and cheered when it is blatantly lying to the shareholders and taking their money for salary, bonuses and travel-points mileage(to demos & presentations).
The formation of the Loop Group, whose purpose seemed to be (at least while I was a member) to perpetuate far-fetched rumors of some impending huge deal that never happened.
Furthermore, at least three members of the Loop Group were sharing what were supposed to be highly confidential messages--with SKS and Peter.
They knew every step we were going to take, long before we put on our shoes or socks. I believe there was a criminal conspiracy at work behind the Loop Group, unbeknownst to us--for us to help keep shareholder morale up during the long stretches when nothing was happening--like now. How? By flying rumors of imminent deals of major consequences.
IMO, Bill Solm ought to be hauled before the BoD and fired for lying, instead of them giving him a rich bonus for absolutely NO performance whatsoever.
If I owned Wave stock, I would sue the BoD and the entire Wave mgt, past and present for fraud and would attempt to get criminal authorities to look at the case. I believe I would win, with the evidence I have. Tempting.
Blue
"Yes," I imagine Bill Solms replying. "I had to replace a parasitic kleptocracy, cut costs and all the rest of it."
"How was I to know the products were crap? I'm a career military man, not a technology guy. It was so bad, nothing worked, except for shareholder money extraction--that was hitting on all cylinders.
"Yes, I did try, but it was hopeless. Now I am just treading water, collecting salaries and bonuses until the roof caves in. That's why I'm so quiet. I got nothing to say, nothing to promote, any hope is based on lies and BS (not Solms), so I'm collecting until she dies, which could be any day now."
______
Of course no CEO in their right mind would ever honestly admit to such a situation, but I'm guessing it is prolly not too far from what is actually happening inside Wave. Nothing.
Blue
As long as no accountability is required of reckless statements by Wave mgt types, this game can go on for as long as they can fool people and raise enough dough to keep the doors open and the bonuses paid.
Q3 closes and not a blip anywhere on any scope except for the ones with the Kool-aid lenses. Radio silence. Blackout.
What? Is Wave resting on its laurels?
Blue
3 heads: You also posted: "...there are billions of computers and servers that do not include TPMs. What do you suggest we do about them?"
What does Apple periodically do? They come out with a new product NOT compatible with earlier versions.
What did Bill Gates do when MS needed far more memory than available at the time? He said, consumers will just have to buy bigger memory modules. Guess what? They did and memory modules plunged in price.
What do we do about the billions of computers and servers without TPMs? Nothing--you just issue a statement the new computer security is incompatible with earlier computers.
What do you do about the computers and servers without TPMs? Nothing. If they want security, they will have to buy new ones with TPMs.
It's done in business all the time. Apple does it whenever it feels it is necessary. New operating system, i-tunes, i-photo, i-movie--the latest versions incompatible with older versions.
No big deal, IMO. 77 Charles?
Best--Blue
3: We disagree on the small bits, but agree on the big bits--Wave's course, past, present and future. So let's quit arguing about small things that are mostly irrelevant, OK?
Read Player's two messages this morning. No min., no guarantees of purchases or royalties--v similar to many other Wave 'announcements' that sounded real good, but almost never resulted in revenue to Wave.
More importantly, IMO, is Player's point about SAC's commitment on this agreement--there is absolutely no commitment at all--it is a pricing schedule. Oft times, supporters have spotted these pricing schedules and thought Wave's ship had come in. So far, it has not and is not likely to come in soon.
But Player pointed out a worrisome quote in the PR: Here is Player's post # 243655, in part:
"It is also worthy to note the following quote [from the Wave PR today] "will require additional financing for operations in the near term," so it seems people are being warned that even at 107% APR, the company couldn't get enough money last time."
To me, this is a show stopper. They virtually bet the entire company with the bridge-loaners. Wave must have raised all the cash it could with the loan, but it will not be enough--so stand by for more funding, perhaps on even more onerous terms than the 107%.
RE: 3 heads, your comment about my analogies and comparison being off topic and out of line--I gave the illustrative examples of VHS/Beta and Blu-Ray vs HD DVD--because they were new technologies that came out of nowhere and were quickly adopted, like when CD replaced vinyl. I don't think those inventions waited around for standards groups to approve their efforts. That was my point and now I will drop it.
Re: Beer at the Sevens--anytime, my friend--and I will gladly buy all you can drink.
Best wishes--Blue
If I have mischaracterized your posts and taken them out of context, I apologize. But to tell you the truth, I am too thick to see it.
You wrote: "A proven unhackable security device/system needs to be mandated by industry and/or federal; without user discretion of off or on."
Yes, a TPM is such a device, whether it is unhackable or not--I think a TPM has already been breached by an academic, just as a proof of concept that the TPM is not unbreakable.
However, let's go back the main point. You think a security device needs to be mandated by industry and/or federal....
I said it is the other way around for some devices, apps or software.
Obviously these devices must use existing protocols and language to work, but if they do work--then they become standards. Sometimes the lack of standards hinders adoption. Blu-Ray vs HD DVD. Blu-ray won out, but not because of any standards imposed. It was fought out in the market place and this time, Sony won.
Some examples given were not unhackable security devices and I did not mean to imply they were. They were just examples of technology that came out of nowhere and led to rapid and widespread adoption before standards came out.
Generally speaking what you say is exactly the case. But there are notable exceptions.
If I still don't have your tune right, I'm not likely to. I read and re-read your posts and could not find what you mean or where I took your words out of context. Help?
Blue
Dreamer: We are not at opposites, here. I know what you are saying and it is true, just as what I said is true, too.
TPMs are in usage, but in such a tiny sliver of the market, it does not register and can not be measured.
This, despite at least a billion TPMs in computers world wide. This despite the TPG singing its praises and promoting it for 10 years, but the needle hasn't budged.
Maybe at some future point, TPMs may have a chance, but right now, the market share is too small to measure.
You wrote Wave shares are a "lottery ticket." Yes, they are and the drawing date has already passed, IMO.
And just to clarify, the KMPG auditors were not fired by Wave. They quit and the reason for their quitting is not known, despite speculation--the best of which says they were not being paid.
Blue
Three: I bow to your understanding of the market, but respectfully disagree.
A new technology if it is effective and economical, IMO, does not wait to be accorded approval of standards by either industry or govt.
There are any number of products proving this.
A new device, app, or software often comes to the market long before any standards groups are involved.
BetaMax vs VHS--the market voted for VHS because even though BetaMax put up a better picture, the tape limit was 2 hrs, unlike the competing VHS format that could record for up to 6 hrs.
If a movie was 2hrs 08 min. long--and if you were recording it on BetaMax, you would miss the ending climax. It was the public that chose VHS convenience and extra recording time over the superior quality format of BetaMax.
I believe if new technology comes available to stop most hacks, it will be gobbled up by hard-hit enterprises and maybe the public at large, long before any standards groups can mandate standards.
In some ways, the new product sets the standards, based on what it can do. For these products, the standards come later.
Of course the old way is an operable system, too. And there are some innovations that do follow changing standards (USB 3, USB 3.0+C), HDMI, component connections, optical connections, wifi, infrared, codecs, JPEGs, TIFFs, etc.
It's only my opinion about this and I certainly can be wrong.
Best--Blue
Wave Dreamer Addendum: Re: Wave "givens"
How many times did Wave get our hopes up with the leaders telling us this is 'can't miss'? Remember 'June is ours!'? How many times? At least once a quarter for the past 10 years or more.
Were they ever right? No.
Some people, myself included, after perusing that stellar record, would re-examine the givens. They seem not to be given at all. In fact, I would say most were non-existent in the first place.
Take the "June is ours!" statement--made circa 2006. It claimed a milestone had been reached by Microsoft that would take Wave to the promised land.
This was one of hundreds of false Eureka! moments, all of which involved people buying more shares based on the erroneous or felonious 'discovery.'
Same for the self-appointed Wave 'technologists' who told us countless times how Wave technology was cutting edge and far superior to anything out there. If true, one would think that would result in sales. It didn't.
First mover advantage? Complete BS. Yes, Wave may have been the first to a non-existent market, but where were the sales? Where were the follow-ons from companies who bought Wave and paid millions?
Why did Dell abandon ship in favor of Credant? Remember what supporters were told about this? "Irrelevant, don't worry."
Don't worry? The main source of Wave's revenue, about 90% at one point, was in jeopardy because Dell bought Wave's competitor--but don't worry?
How many times have the actual facts been interpreted 100% in the wrong direction from what really happened?
I can't count them. But I can tell you why it happens over and over again to this day. The Wave 'givens' are complete BS (not Solms). Maybe a re-examination might be in order of what is reality and what is fantasy about Wave's chances from here out.
The market is the ultimate arbiter of success and the market has not smiled on Wave since the "Bubble." That is exactly why our share price is in the mid teens after two reverse splits and numerous de-listing warnings, including the one we are now under until Jan.
Why does success continually evade Wave, especially after each new call that things are turning around, when they are not getting better at all, but worse?
Friday closed out Q3 and Wave was never quieter. Yet another quarter gone, no announcements of significance, except bad ones--the auditors quit.
When does the good news start? Next quarter?
Best, Blue
Dreamer: TPMs have been put in computers now for a decade! (10 YEARS!). There are roughly a billion out there. But the number of the ones actually turned on is still too low to measure.
I didn't say TPMs aren't being used. I said the TPM movement, if the goal is ubiquity, is an absolute failure. Ten years and you still can not measure how many are turned on, because the number is statistically insignificant.
Making the problem worse is the cranking out of new computers with even more TPMs inside. The new ones coming online make the ratio of those TPMs turned on and being used even smaller every day.
Why? Because the TPM movement is gaining headway far slower than the rush of new machines with TPMs inside, never to be turned on.
Furthermore, the members of the Trusted Platform Group, as of a year or so ago, did not utilize the TPM themselves. How can you convince me to turn my TPM on, if you, the promoters, don't use it yourselves?
This is not a statement of absolutes. I am not saying TPMs are forever doomed to be failures as a security measure, but up until today, what else would a rational person call it? Timelines are not infinite (except in Wave's case).
IMO, if TPMs were considered the protection they claim to be, they would have been adopted by the masses and the enterprises by now, and their usage would be growing, not static or withering.
And, as you correctly noted, even if TPMs swept the world and did become ubiquitous, Wave does not necessarily catch any of that business and in point of fact, will not.
Same argument goes for Wave itself, IMO. If Wave's security and TPM-mgt products worked the way Wave claims, Wave shareholders would be rolling in money by now--even with all the mismanagement. Why, you ask?
Look at the headlines. Can you imagine yourself the CEO of a company whose million-plus customer base was just stolen and sold to hackers all over the world?
Or wouldn't reading about a fellow enterprise being hacked, push you to at least see what protection is out there for sale? Of course it would.
And as the level of hack attacks stepped up in number and in sophistication, wouldn't every CEO with something valuable to protect be looking desperately for some way to secure it?
Wave has been in the news a lot--for good reasons and bad. But it is hardly unknown, except to customers.
All those years spent 'presenting' and 'demoing' all over the globe and Wave still can't support itself on sales. Doesn't that say something?
You claim you have a world-beating product supplying the needed protection from the current chaos of wholesale theft of films, customer IDs and addresses with credit cards, along with top secret data from the Defense Dept.
If you had the goods, would they not sell themselves in today's environment?
Either something supernatural is going on, or many of the premises Wave supporters accept as givens, are not given at all.
You seem to think if TPMs continue to garner a minuscule share of the market after 10 years, both TPMs and Wave still have a chance.
Not so, IMO. You either grow or you die.
Time and opportunity have passed by both Wave and TPMs, IMO. Something new will be here pretty quickly and it will be goodbye to both Wave and TPM.
Already there is a report of a new technology that is not only unbreakable, but any attempt to hack it can be detected.
http://www.itpro.co.uk/security/25379/unbreakable-encryption-is-closer-than-ever-after-quantum-breakthrough
Here's one excerpt from that article:
"This latest breakthrough is another step on the road to 'unhackable' networks as, with this type of quantum encryption, if a person tries to compromise the network and read the data they will change the encoding and alert the system that a breach has been attempted.
If that technology comes to fruition and to the market, or any of the other super crypto engines now being created--it will be goodbye to Wave and the TPM. Ten years is a long time to sit still in the midst of a fast-moving stream that is the Internet.
There are too many minds all over the world working on alternate solutions using technology not available 10 years ago, or even last year.
Wave's ten-year old solutions are tried and true. They have been tried by many, and true to Wave's history, few, if any are sold.
I wish it were not so, but it is, IMO.
Best wishes for your Wave dreams to come true.
Blue
The resignation of Wave's audit firm, regardless of the reason, is just one more bad bean in a bag full of them.
And it will be one more bugaboo for the supporters to shrug off as either immaterial or they will call it actually 'beneficial' for Wave, as some have already done elsewhere.
An example from the Weets Field of Endless Dreams: "They are probably looking to cut costs & hire a less expensive firm...Bravo for Bill for finally cutting costs!" One supporter almost immediately chimes in saying the poster was "spot on."
This refusal to see signs of desperation and failure, along with a true creative streak in making up reasons why bad is good--is exactly why the Wave mgt has been able to go to the well again and again, without ever delivering anything to the shareholders.
I have watched it almost 20 years and once was a part of the phenomenon myself. I ate, drank, and slept Wave, believing the bologna for way too long. My first question was, how come when a goal set by mgt is not reached, nobody mentions it?
Wow! You would have thought something bad was said about the Pope.
Along with boards where only good news about Wave could be posted, no criticism, no second-guessing mgt--it helped Wave stave off closer scrutiny for a while.
But....Wave is still rocking along, still making promises they won't and can't keep, still dancing the shareholders around the mulberry bush with more empty promises.
It is amazing to see.
Blue
Top: And how successful has any of the various TPM-promoting groups been?
There are roughly a billion TPMs out there. The ones with TPMs turned on is so small it can not be measured.
So it would appear from all logic the TPM program has been a massive failure to this point. All those TPMs sitting unlit, idle, and about 99% are completely unknown to their owners.
We bashers don't deny the existence of those TPM groups, rather we focus on the complete irrelevance of TPMs in any mainstream force.
The usage rate is so low after all these years of 'promoting' the TPM as a coming technology, it is actually losing steam, not gaining it.
But as a market force, TPMs are simply irrelevant. Last we heard, the TPM group did not use TPMs themselves. That's a hard sale when you don't use the product yourself, yet you try to convince others to buy it.
Blue
Snackman: Isn't that a good reason to resign? If the accountants felt Wave would not be around (to pay them among other issues)?
It does not bode well for Wave's future, would you agree? The accountants, after all, should have access to all the numbers. If they looked at those numbers closely and said to themselves, "We should quit, Wave is not going to be around much longer," it is not a vote of confidence in Wave's future, IMO.
Blue
3: Not trying to prolong our discussion. Clarification: I was not trying to twist your words to fit my opinion, and did not use anger to disparage Wave.
Wave has a long history of bad behavior. And as you correctly noted, denial played a large role.
I don't hate anyone connected with Wave mgt. I have railed against the lies, pretenses, deceptions, etc. for a decade. I was taken in, but wised up. In no way does hatred play a role in my criticisms of mgt. I try to stick to the facts, which are brutal enough.
I understood what you said. The net effect was that, sure Wave has misbehaved, but not to the extent others have.
That was what Micro and I were responding to. Maybe that was not quite what you meant?
I have yet to understand the 'objective' facts you said your statements are based on. I would like to know which facts you mean and if you have the time, tell us what you think those facts mean, please.
Blue
3: No one is disputing there are other worse players out there. What we are saying, no matter how much other bad behavior there is by a large number of people doing it, that does not lessen the loss for those who invested in Wave, like myself, believing the lies--at first. Nor does it lessen the perpetrators' culpability.
Hatred does not play into it, IMO. Facts are facts. SKS and then CFO Feeney both said nearly identical statements about a year apart:
Wave will have in this quarter (SKS: circa 2009) the first cash flow break-even quarter (Q4) from operations in the company history.
Feeney said the same thing a year later. Both statements were as far off the mark in terms of truthiness as they could be.
What facts are you referring to?
Blue
Micro: I second your opinion. It is never a good argument when caught to say, "Well, everyone was doing it." That does not lessen the culpability, even if true.
The folks who lost big time because of their faith in Wave and its mgt are every bit equal victims as Bernie Madoff's scam--just the amts were different--blatant lies and deception were the modus operandi at both Wave and Madoff's 'fund.'
I'd agree Bill Solms has only extended the dishonorable Wave tradition of never meeting a single goal he himself set, just like SKS before him. Together, they form more than a decade of damage, deceit and non-performance, while promising prosperity and profitability and achieving neither.
It matters not what others might have done--the deeds of the Wave miscreants belong to them and is neither mollified nor mitigated by the actions of others, elsewhere.
Blue
Koog: I have no doubts you are right. Anything said by anyone in power at Wave should be suspect, just on the basis of the rich atmosphere of foolery, trickery and lies from whence it comes.
Best wishes--Blue
Koog: I believe your chronology may be off a bit. In the late 1990's, I went to Wave HQ in Lee and asked Peter (then CEO) if they were working directly with Intel and IBM.
He said to me, "We have conversations every single day with both Intel and IBM." What is the impression left?
I asked him again at the 1998 shareholder meeting in NYC and his reply in public was the same. We talk to both companies every day.
Yet, son Steven, managed to queer the Intel relationship before it ever began, I learned later from someone who was there at the first meeting.
Steven jumped up early at the meeting with two Intel reps and started pointing his fingers at them and issuing ultimatums. The two Intel reps got up and left because of Steven's weird, offensive and unpredictable actions and there was no communication for years afterward.
I never followed the tech details too closely, because Wave wasn't selling anything. No need, IMO.
Blue
Yes, I remember that plan. Wave snuggled up next to Intel and IBM, in an attempt to make folks think they were financially connected.
As I recall it, the Intel co-processor was going to be 'baked onto the chip,' and Wave spread the rumor they were intimately connected.
And there were further hints, rumors, speculation, fibs, etc. to make folks think Wave and Intel/IBM were working closely together and soon this wonderful product would be on the market--Wave achieves nirvana (ubiquity) and shareholders go from rags to riches.
That was the blueprint. But as the old English proverb said, 'there's many a slip twixt the cup and the lip.'
It turns out the alleged 2003 'connection' between Wave and Intel/IBM was nothing more than an agreement to co-operate with each other. No money!
Yet, SKS & the then CFO, Feeney, seized the opportunity in the midst of the confusion created when Wave Investor Relations, David Collins inaccurately told reporters revenue was a part of deals with both tech giants.
The share price soared to over $5/share (before any splits--so that would be $60+ in today's split-adjusted dollars.
At almost the height of the panic-buying, SKS & Feeney sold hundreds of thousands of shares they had been given, reaping a fortune for each.
Unfortunately for Wave, shareholders filed 13 lawsuits against SKS & Feeney for profiteering from Wave's own mistaken press release and 'clarifying' statements.
The 13 shareholder lawsuits were combined into one in Springfield, MA. The allegations, never denied, were eye-popping and it became clear Steven & Gerry were opportunists who cared not a whit about shareholders.
Most of this was revealed in the allegations by the plaintiffs. It was pretty clear what they did--never denied or rebutted.
Yet, the Wave supporters floated the story the lawyers for the plaintiffs were just unethical gold-diggers and there was no reason for any shareholder to read the allegations or the pathetic answers.
They should have read the allegations, because they were listed, documented and extremely revealing, regarding the two highest officers of Wave and their rush to self-deal themselves a fortune at the expense of the company and the shareholders.
This is part of the way Wave was able to avoid severely damaging truths about the way it was managed.
I sent the published part of the lawsuit to one of Wave's biggest supporters and suggested it be read. Reading those allegations turned that person around from hard-core supporter to critic.
After years of faithful service to Wave shareholders, that person was ex-communicated and banned from the Wave supporter community Why? Because of questions asked.
There has been a consistent effort to mislead shareholders from the get-go. SKS just lied again and again about profitability, with no supporter ever asking why his predictions never come true--for fear they'd be attacked too.
This effort to suppress the truth came from within Wave and without.
No criticism was allowed on some boards and anyone who made even the mildest passing negative remark or question would be verbally attacked in gang fashion--for the crime of telling the truth.
This will be Wave's legacy, IMO. Deception, dishonesty, misdirection, lies, faux promises with no possibility of coming true--in lieu of success, Wave and its supporters promoted the idea that the share price and volume meant nothing.
"Don't worry about the SP & volume," they were told, "what is going on is stealth--a massive movement underground where no one could see it. When it bursts thru, no one will be able to buy Wave shares they will in such demand."
Of course what was going on underground was the same as above ground in Lee--nothing. Nothing except the steady siphoning of money from shareholder pockets in exchange for more empty promises of success some time in the future.
That's Wave's real history. But the Loop Group was part of it, too. The Loop Group lifted flagging spirits when they were at their lowest--by peddling a false rumor of impending huge deals that never happened--because they were lies to begin with.
The result today was utterly predictable.
Blue
Intel in the 1990's, yes--but it was Wave back in the 1980's under a variety of names that ultimately became Wave Systems, Inc.
Intel's idea was different than Peter's original "Peter-meter." Comic strip artists, like the fellow who draws 'Calvin and Hobbes'--could sell directly to the consumer, rather than having the consumer purchase an entire newspaper, when the entirety of what was wanted, was the comic strip.
That's how the cryptographic 'engine' that powered Wave came into being. It was supposed to both protect the product, say Calvin & Hobbes, and guarantee payment for the artist. Wave would, in theory get a small percentage of a billion or more transactions a day. That was the dream that morphed from slog to scam to what remains of Wave. today
My impression was Intel's focus was quite different. One of Intel's ideas was the Pentium's 'discrete number' digitally marking and signing every document coming from that computer--of course removing anonymity and making everything trackable.
Intel elected to sell it with the discrete number, default "on," without telling any of their customers until it came to light by privacy groups.
After considerable criticism, Intel reversed themselves to ship the Pentium with the discrete number turned off.
Doesn't matter, since neither idea caught on. Stark difference though. Intel sold product. Wave, not so much.
Blue
Koog: IMO, it was a terrific idea--ground-breaking idea, poorly executed.
Just my opinion, but I don't think it started out to be a scam. It became a scam when after years of pretending they had a product when they didn't, Wave finally came out with the Embassy and quickly racked up a series of goose eggs in terms of sales.
Eventually, they caught on, but we did not. They knew they had not a snowball-in-hell's chance of making any money, but they kept saying the same old things and people went with it.
Eventually the disparity between claims and reality sunk the ship. It's riding low in the water today. Seems like currently, a pond ripple could scuttle SS Wave and send her to the bottom.
Blue
Player: You wrote:
"We have seen the stuff about other companies waiting on the financials to get better for a long time now. I brought it up last year and it has gotten much, much worse since then.
"If the companies wouldn't buy when the share price was 10 times higher and cash was sufficient, why would that change based on some marginal improvement in the shareprice and the company still unable to prove they can have a sustainable cash flow?"
______________
That particular point you illustrated, IMO, shows the insanity being peddled elsewhere for lack of sales. Of course, if Wave were more solid financially, the orders would come rolling in. Sure, they would--same as those SED drives SKS said he could sell if he had 'em--after the Thai floods.
This company has used one dodge after another to stay in business, despite being unable to successfully sell their products in over a decade of trying. Yes, they made the odd sale now and again, but they were exceptions that proved the rule.
Outright deception and frequent misdirection have been the mainstays of Wave. I always thought it ironic, at the helm of a company selling trust, the CEO could not be trusted at all.
Solms's shameful actions and statements unfortunately continue the complete mistreatment of shareholders, IMO.
Blue
In my mind, I think it is the exit strategy. The bridge loan coincides roughly with the due date for the 180-day extension showdown with the Naz over insufficient share price and market cap.
My pure speculation is Wave is going into this clear-eyed. They obviously know that signing up for 100%+ interest was going to blink out a warning in red for all to see, that this is a desperation play.
Why on earth, unless they had some big contract hanging fire over a small detail, like lack of operational money--would a company not only pay that much interest, but pretty much bet the whole company on it?
Why? Because if I read it right, a Wave default would pretty much leave the bridge-loaners owning Wave, or at least a significant portion of it.
Those kind of deals are usually only done at the point of a gun barrel. That kind of interest is almost unheard of for such a short time.
Anyway, getting back to my theory. I think Wave signed this deal thinking unless a miracle happens, Wave is going to be de-listed from the Naz. De-listing for a company, is pretty much the same as a bullet through the brain--only much slower in effect--but same result.
I think the Wave mgt plan is to make some pawn movements on the TPM chessboard to create the illusion of progress, or to make people think at least some sort of action is imminent and then, sit back and collect salaries and bonuses and golden parachutes from the incredibly generous Wave shareholders until 2016.
And let the bridge-loaners take over and run Wave. Could they possibly do worse than the two previous CEO's?
Not only do the shareholders take a shiving and keep on giving, but they don't mind being completely disdained by mgt as the gullible, insignificant creatures they are.
I sure wish someone would bring this before some judicial authority in either civil or criminal court. But instead, those who have been plundered, are out on the sidewalks, empty pockets turned inside out, cheering the chance Wave could come back and redeem their lives and belief in Wave.
I would bet on an alien space invasion happening first.
Blue
Player: Even the high priest of the Wave Supporters posted today he thinks Wave still has a good chance.
Here is a quote that speaks for itself louder than any critic ever could. After being repeatedly lied to, over and over, he posts this:
"So, the bridge loan may not be the only solution to Wave's financials, there may be more help coming. I say this because Solm stated at the SHM that they were trying to monetize some of Wave's patents and assets.
I think that once the financials firm up, we may see some deals from companies that are waiting for our finances to be better before they commit to an order with Wave."
___________
He apparently subscribes to the notion it was only shaky financials keeping other companies from buying Wave's product.
Furthermore, he quotes a known serial prevaricator, Solms, to support his argument.
One wonders what exactly it will take to finally quash all hope Wave will 'rise again.' Isn't 27 years without a profit enough?
A share price of close to a penny after the splits. The failure of a single forecast by either SKS or the new CEO Solms, to come anywhere close to their predictions of prosperity.
If we could isolate the substance making supporters refuse to look at facts, spurn logic and rationality and pursue fantasies instead despite having been wrong 100% of the time about Wave's "success," it would be the best-selling product in the world.
I'm sure VW would order some. I can see the VW dealers now after serving some of that mysterious Wave substance to a customer with a cup of coffee.
"No, despite the fact we admitted we cheated on emission tests for years, the VW/Audi/BMW diesels are actually environmentally clean and economical. Please buy one and don't listen to any of the nonsense your Nanny-State EPA is trying to push."
Blue
Excuse my cynicism, but is the author another one of the Wave supporters?
Such articles are good for Wave, but they come a bit late. Let's hope there is a strategy other than just letting Wave die.
The board removal was done because one of the leaders of the Wave supporters complained often and the board owner tired of it.
Cypher: Your post says pretty much what I'm hearing, as well.
One small difference. I believe Peter Sprague is still on the payroll--is he not?
What do you think the mgt strategy is at this point?
IMO, the strategy appears to be one of collecting salaries and bonuses until the last possible minute.
I'm guessing the last minute will come when the Naz de-lists Wave again, forcing it onto the pinkies or some alternate reality.
It looks as if there is no positive movement at all towards any sort of sales, re-structuring (other than cutting the worker-bee staff to the bone, but sparing the ex-military Triumvirate of Chiefs at the top).
So, if that be the scenario, Wave will close shortly after the New Year rolls around, if not before, IMO.
Blue
How nice to see you here after so long away. Wave has gone through some upheavals, as you may know.
Currently the SP is in the teens. The Naz is giving Wave until Jan. to conform to the $1 SP minimum--or be de-listed most likely to the pinkies. Currently, Wave is also in violation of the min. $35M market cap.
Many upheavals and despite all the good hope, the new CEO has done a wonderful imitation of SKS--tell folks what is going to happen, and then miss every single one of the goals.
But, Unclever, you will be quite pleased to know the Triumvirate Militaires running Wave these days, get regular bonuses as did SKS, even while Wave sheds value like the sun sheds hydrogen.
And, lastly, Peter Sprague is still on the payroll.
Do you have any info on Wave? It seems to be left out to die a quiet death. No sales to speak of, certainly none to announce. Maybe just waiting for the Naz to administer the coup de grace.
Best wishes--Blue
It's not a great argument, IMO, to compare SKS/BSolms with some of the worst thieves around and then to say, compared to the really bad boys, your two look like Boy Scouts.
Boy Scouts are not supposed to lie, cheat, steal, be greedy and selfish, etc. Neither SKS or his successor are Boy Scouts. So, to favorably compare Wave to the worst offenders and frauds and then have their bad behavior mollified by comparison as not that bad--is not a great argument on their behalf, IMO.
It is of the same logic, if you salt my sugar, does it make yours any sweeter?
Otherwise, I agree with you on most of what you've posted about Wave. IMO, Wave was akin to a 3-card monte, street sucker's game.
Let me leave you with a quote (translation) from Seneca: "It is not goodness to be better than the worst."
Best wishes--Blue
Player: For many years it was apparent the BoD was not exercising fiduciary--or any other sort of governance they were sworn to actually do.
On one side, a large block of influential, but naive nearly to the point of being beyond belief, shareholders--was giving the mgt team constant attaboys for everything they did, while tolerating no criticism or discussion of the many extremely serious problems with mgt.
That is the atmosphere that led to some of the worse behaviors by mgt--when they simply realized the shareholders were so supportive and gullible, they didn't need to give them anything, and could just keep every penny squeezed out of them. And these supportive shareholders would hound and attack anyone who tried to point fingers at obvious self-dealing or the constant lies about imminent profitability.
There were precious few checks and no balances whatsoever for the horribly misshapen fable of Wave greatness emerging from the fetid mind of dreamers, saluted by "teckies" who had not a clue about Wave's actual technical value, and the fab-fable was polished by both mgt and the many supportive shareholders.
This drew in even more accolytes who thought they were going to be filthy rich.
Naysayers were shouted down and thuggery was afoot on behalf of Wave. Threats were made, spouses and children were told if their loved one kept on criticizing Wave, 'bad things would happen.'
IMO, it was an atmosphere so rich in opportunity, with so few people watching, it was almost criminal not to take everything not nailed down--so they did. [It was an auditor who caught SKS being paid an extra $70K and he had to give it back.]
Even when Wave got caught pulling some truly outrageous stunts--the supporting cast was there to run interference, cancel any negatives and ensure only the positive was available for public consumption--even though it was complete fiction. i.e. "Will any of that matter when Wave goes to $100 a share?"
Even today, as Wave lies in smoking ruins and ashes, there is talk elsewhere of a "2 or 300 million dollar contract."
Three biz days left in Q3 and Wave mgt is just letting the body lay out in the hot sun--no news, no hope, no communication.
But, as always at Wave, the bonuses get paid for delivering wave after wave of Wave failures. It's a Wave tradition.
IMO, the mgt is going to withhold life support and just let Wave slip away. Wave is an incredible story, the dark side of the digital revolution, a company exchanging worthless promises for hard cash, again and again--to the tune of nearly half a billion dollars.
Without sales, Wave has virtually no chance of regaining Nasdaq compliance by January, IMO. Maybe the strategy is to just collect salaries and bonuses until Naz kicks Wave out. It would be the perfect excuse to close the doors, IMO. "We tried folks. God knows we tried..."
Blue
Player: Once again you have encapsulated Wave wisdom in a few words. That is part of exactly why Wavoids, including myself, ponied up hundreds of millions to bet on a company completely bereft of a hit in 27 years, except for the rare exceptions like Dell, GM and a couple of other revenue-producers.
Myths of questionable integrity and accuracy surpassed real research and logical conclusions.
The grasping at straws was a continual thing. Remember when one hapless Wavoid asked another board about an ad for a product designed to "create a wave of interest."
"Is this Wave?" the hapless investor asked. Of course it wasn't Wave.
That is the level of research by some Wave investors. Yes, it was easy to fool these folks.
For me, it was Nicolas Negroponte and some other bigfoot techies who endorsed Wave by buying shares and being publicly associated with the company and its founder, Peter Sprague.
When Wave was sued by 13 investors for Wave's inaccurate attributing revenue to two PRs with IBM & Intel back in circa 2005, causing a run-up of Wave shares to more than $5/share (prior to any splits).
At the top of the frenzy, CEO Steven Sprague and CFO Jerry Feeney both sold hundreds of thousands of shares, reaping an incredible reward for Wave's own mistakes--compounded by a journalist's mistakes in reporting the news.
The suit alleged the CEO & CFO profited unjustly from Wave's inaccurate investor relations guy, David Collins, who said the "contracts" included revenue, which they didn't. They were merely partnerships. No revenue at all.
The strongly-supportive Wave shareholder group, convinced people not to bother with reading the lawsuit, telling them that it was merely a fishing expedition by gold-digging lawyers. Hardly.
It was a systematic take-down of the lies told to boost shares, and how both top Wave officers immediately jumped to profit from the misunderstanding.
None of the major allegations were refuted by Wave. Instead, it relied on a technical defense.
The case was settled in 2006 for $1.75M paid by Wave's insurers. Wave investors should have read the allegations in the suit, because it laid bare both the CEO & CFO's lack of concern for anyone else but themselves--pure greed defined them.
It was but one more instance of Wave supporters telling folks that highly material events were irrelevant or not important. It also typifies their approach to "negating" any negative comment about Wave or its mgt. especially by trickery and distraction and on occasion, by outright lying--no surprise.
One further point about the practice of eliminating any negativity, and inflating questionable connections and events to near fact status. The fact many Wave novice investors were especially naive, does not excuse the blatant effort by some to shape the public picture of Wave to be far different, far more successful and positive than the company ever was or hoped to be.
And yes, those who misled so many for so long about the truth at Wave's center are still at it. The spider and its web you mentioned so cleverly, may yet consume some tasty webbed morsel among others.
But perhaps the question should be, why would anyone now follow the advice of those who got it so wrong for so long and are still at it, coming up with predictions of big money for a Wave sale based as usual on a number of fictional elements like grossly inflating tax savings for an acquiring company into a figure as big as the sun. Hogwash!
Best wishes--Blue
Lex: If your info is correct, thank you. I thought there was a hearing scheduled on whether to grant an extension. Maybe I missed it! Thx
Blue
S-man: I don't have any Wave stock to sell. I have been out for a long while. Years. I put my money where my mouth was, outside the Wave ring. I could see what was coming--I've been in since 1996 and once held 47,500 shares--before either of the reverse splits. [Some of it was on margin--and lost when Wave tanked.]
As drastic as Wave's situation seems now, only worse news awaits. The NASDAQ hearing on whether Wave can stay on the Naz's Capital Market or go to the pink sheets--any day now. Pinkies=disaster
Funding: Shelf may not be accessed, set by securities rules. At the current price, the usual 20% discount would not be enough, given the pennies involved and the high risk factor Wave may go under.
It sure seems to me they have come to an end. No more hopeful statements from Lee and even if they did make optimistic statements, they would be likely be disbelieved, due to past such statements that came to naught.
This company has peddled mainly dreams since inception. Any chance the company may have had for success, IMO, died more than a decade ago, when CEO Peter Sprague handed the company's reins to his woefully inadequate and insecure son, Steven, a known pathological liar.
There were a few exceptions that came along rarely, like Dell and the GM deal--but just often enough for the Wave balloon to look inflated to the uninitiated or to the blind-hold-the-tiger's-tail-at-all-costs shareholders who swallowed and digested Steven's repeated lies about being on the cusp of profitability without complaint. [GM did not re-up with Wave & Dell (Wave's major revue provider) gave up on Wave after a few years.
And then, once Steven was gone, these same strong supporters began digesting the groaning BS smorgasboard Mr. Solms put out, especially for these shareholders, who either can't read a balance sheet, or didn't believe the ones Wave put out quarterly, lighting a path about as straight down as one gets.
So now that the company's big claims have largely been disproved as lies or over-eager evaluation by the new CEO and the strong supporters of Wave, knowing at last it is over--what are they doing?
Staying true to course, they are putting ghastly inflated prices on Wave's supposed sale price at the scrap heap, somehow expecting to salvage something after so many dollars left riding on Wave for way too long. More good money after bad.
Some folks go wrong early and then just keep on being wrong, without ever once considering perhaps re-evaluation of their tactics or re-assessments of their "givens." And much of the "given" about Wave was as full of feathers, bologna and bullsh*t as any blivet ever made.
The "big one" was circulated among Wave shareholders for exactly the effect it had on you--even though your rational mind was screaming to you it was a hopeless scam--but the fear of missing out on the mother of all gushers won out over logic, reasoning and balance sheets. It happened to most of us.
You must remember the posts by one "leader' who kept saying, "I wouldn't want to be out of this stock this weekend," implying a big liftoff was about to occur. [Ghost big one?]
It was all part of the scheme to keep you on the line, waiting for the gusher that never came because the leaders were inept, their products were failures, no true business plan for success and BS can only carry you so far. At some point, folks are going to want to see a little profit.
Ah, there's the problem. Profit. None in 27 years.
I hope you recover from Wave-itus as I did. It feels free.
Best wishes--Blue
And what would the value of a bundle of patents be, if those patents had amassed half a billion spent to get the SP barely over a penny (split adjusted) in 27 years of efforts?
I believe the patents, like Wave products have no value in today's marketplace.
Likewise the company--what would a buyer or acquisitioner end with? A company with poor management, a worse reputation and products no one wants. Sorry, but I see no value in that.
I think that is part of the end-game myth--to let the big losers down easy. Let them think there is a way out of this one way sled to oblivion. But the reality is, Wave has no chance at all. And even if it did have a small chance, the current leadership is so dense, IMO, they would not recognize the opportunity.
I think it is over.
Blue
At this point, given the complete lack of significant sales--what is going on with that massive volume, IMO, is one of two things: Either some inside info about a sale(s) has been leaked to insiders, or (2) more likely, traders, manipulators and momentum players are riding her up and down a penny at the time.
I think the leaked news of a sale is bogus, because of the wonder induced by, 'Wave sold something?!'
Blue
Alea: You asked, "What was the open channel for Wave?" As if somewhere in the complex process of making, marketing and selling a product, there was some kind of blockage, if I am not misreading your meaning.
It seems to me if the CEO sets a course, say pursues a strategy to take his company into the market and it fails, IMO, it is bad form to then blame the market in any way, i.e. "the market doesn't get it."
It seems commonsense to me, if a CEO or CEOs pick a strategy for success and it continually fails, it is a failure for which the CEO must bear full responsibility.
I am still of the notion Wave products were so bad, no amount of tweaking could make them marketable--then there was Wave's terrible reputation as a company always short-cutting and getting caught, constantly stretching to make folks think it was bigger, better and far more important than the nothing it actually was--all those press releases announcing one tech titan after another was signing with Wave--with one tiny catch--no money would change hands--at least on the part of the big corp.
If the product didn't ax the sale, the reputation of the company selling them 'trust' might, if any looked into its sordid background.
Am I reading you wrong, big guy? Am I again seeing things too cynically, too negatively?
Fondly--Blue
Apparently, Wave has signed a revenue-bearing contract for a change--that's my reading of the volume and uptick--no more than a guess, really. Crazy.
Look for some announcement pretty soon, to inform all those not in the inner circle--read the sign! "No Shareholders Allowed."
There is so much pent-up demand among the rabid supporters, given the least little accomplishment, their enthusiasm will run the price up beyond any credible level based on numbers--and then the usual suspects will scalp them on the way down.
We have seen this very scenario played out before.
Blue
Does the silence mean surrender? Does anyone find it odd, we have a military cerberus [3-headed dog] in charge, yet at the first signs of hardship, it was hardly military honor on display--rather, it was cut and run? Now we are at run and hide. Has the French Militaire unduly influenced our little Wave Triumvirate?
Has Wave flat-lined and has Dr. Solms pledged to keep a pulse going at Wave by any means necessary? The zombie company lives on, machine-regulated breathing sounding death rattles--it is life support; but even the faintest of pulses, means the fattest of purses. If, by some chance you can make it 'round the block again in a year, there will be a fat bonus waiting for you.
Of course, on the opposite side of that equation is the shareholder. Not much for you, I'm afraid. In fact there is nothing. We feel as terrible as you do (but we aren't broke like you).
The conduct of this company is just unbelievable. Half a billion bucks vaporized.
Blue