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Actually your comment is slightly disingenuous. Technically the deficit is at you say, but almost all of it simply represents the costs of funding the business over the last 20 years or so, ie the share premium when shares were sold above par, which was slightly lower than the accumulated deficit, so it is only very recently that the company has become technically insolvent. The actual deficiency (liabilities less assets) is about $14 million, and there are about 600,000 shares in issue at the moment, according to the 10Q you just posted.
What this means is that if the entire company can be sold for, say, $20 million net of liquidators costs etc, then the return to shareholders is about $10 a share. Still not a lot, but not quite as bad as you make out.
The big question of course is whether anyone would pay $20 million, give or take, for the company's IP.
Hi Micro
As a long time investor in WAVX (since 1998 in fact) I am not down by as much as others, though of course the carrots dangled over the years by Wave management did mean that I, alongside many others, didn't sell when our guts told us we should, so the opportunity loss was much greater.
Is THE prominent leader of the pro-Wave investors you refer to the same person I am thinking of (similar name to my handle on here?) If so, I was in contact some months back.
If you can send me a private message on here with an email address (I cannot send pvt messages here) or an otherwise contact, then we can explore.
Yes, I would like to get to the bottom of this all too, alongside most others here.
Sniperman
Why is there still a market in the shares of a company who has filed for bankruptcy?
Is this a prepackaged bankruptcy, ie the sale of the company to a third party had already been agreed in advance?
Hmmm?
Why??? In all this, what strikes me is why go to the trouble of a reverse split, temporary funding etc etc. If things were that dire, why not simply shut the door and call it a day?
maybe! Based on previous experience more likely a significant pull back tomorrow and back down to 10 cents over the next few days.
Hope I'm wrong but....!!
Thanks Blue. My holding is very small now, about 5000 shares worth about double the dealing fee to sell them (lol). But I initially bought in 1998, and am ahead overall over the years, so not a big deal now to me if it crashes, other than to my sense of judgment. Sadly many will have lost a great deal, and of course many wave employees put their faith and their careers into the company, so their loss is much greater.
But all will recover, much wiser in every case, I am sure of that
Bluefang, you may well be right. But if you truly believe that, then sell your stock now. After all 20 cents is 20 cents more than the alternative that you believe.
Or perhaps, is there a niggling doubt that something better might be downstream. I suspect one of the major reasons why others (including me) did not sell in the past was a fear of missing out on the "big one"
MIB
I have a vague recollection that some/all of the various Wave patents and IP are not held within the company. I may be completely wrong here, but if they are held elsewhere (and hopefully in trust somewhere for the benefit of the shareholders!!), this might explain why there might be a buyer.
Today's profit.
Glad to see we are up $.0002 per share today. That means I have made a profit of around $1 today.
Slowly slowly!!
By "process issue", do you mean legal class action or some sort of endgame in play?
I have been a Wave stockholder since 1998, made some money on the way up to the peaks in 2000-2001, sod some on the way down and made a little more. With hindsight, could have made a lot more, like everyone here. Over the last few years I have lost as I bought in from time to time to keep the faith and because.....I believed (like many others on here, of course. As of today I still hold about 5000 diluted and post share split shares but on balance I am slightly ahead. I effectively wrote off my current shares some time ago
There are many emotions we all feel today, but the overriding emotion I feel today is one of incredible sadness, for fellow stockholders who "believed" and kept the faith, for Wave employees who believed and now find themselves out of a job. Not anger (that passed some time ago), just incredible sadness.
Might still come good? I hope so, but in the meantime we get on with our lives, mindful of those who lost their jobs today believing like us.
Barge
I have been an investor in Wave since 1998, and have a fairly sizeable holding. I have held firm during all the previous upsurges in share price, as well as he downtrends, and continue to do so. I respect all your posts, and have been comforted by the eloquence of your posts as well as by the sheer enthusiasm you have shown over the years.
But having been invested for so long, one starts to become aware of patterns, and I accept the danger of extrapolating a pattern. A stockholder is entitled to a degree of cynicism, having paid handsomely for the privilege. The bottom line is that the market in Wave shares is not a perfect market. It is being driven by announcements as well as by the lack of them, by expectations of results as well as actual results, by shorts, by day traders and by market makers and others with their various agendas. I believe the current surge follows previous surges immediately after placings, as well as previous downturns immediately prior to placings. This is all part of DD, alongside technical DD.
I know you have been here for a long time, as I have. I have met SS several times, as far back as 1998, and have been impressed over the years by his enthusiasm and commitment. But, we may still challenge and comment, and have every right to do so.
The best way to avoid bashing is not to put oneself in the position of being able to be bashed.
I hope this is the investment of a lifetime, but lifetimes are finite, including mine. 14 years is long time for anyone. I continue to keep the faith in part because it makes no sense to sell at these prices. But all faith should be challenged periodically, whether religious, corporate, investment or whatever.
To paraphrase Voltaire's Essay on Tolerance, "I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
There has also been a pattern hstorically of the price rising immediately after a share placing. This would allow those participating in the financing round to buy put options and therefore crystallise a guaranteed immediate profit, well before the lock-in period for selling the stock expires. This has happened many times in the past. Legal maybe, but needs the support of the MM's!!!
Jakes Dad: In your opinion, mostly day trading, given the volume?
Thanks for that, awk. I will be going. Any other wavoids planning to be there?
Harry. There are a lot of us from London. Maybe charter an exec 747 with the Wave logo painted on the tail? Wave Force 1?
Actually, from that same report it looks like Goldman Sachs sold out over 600,000 shares back in September.
It's scary because we don't know for sure why the big move is happening, especially as the volume is good, but not stunning so far. So, as always, we wait and see what this is all about.
Someone knows!
I suspect much of today's trading was by day traders, perhaps alerted via the drums to recent action, and looking to make a fast and quick buck. Often happens like this, especially with no news, so the early move up generated buying, and the subsequent pull back indicated closure of positions.
Profit taking? Much of the volume was probably day-trading and momentum play. Happens with most stocks with rapid price movement with no specific underlying reason
Let me echo Alladinator's view, and also suggest that we look at what is happening with the broader Nasdaq and DJ indices to see if we are part of a general movement/trend, or independent of it. Much of the time we tend to follow the Nasdaq, but with much greater intraday or day to day volatility.
When we move up or down fairly violently, there is always a tendency to personalise the move as directly applying to WAVX (e.g the shorts are shorting us, the shorts are covering, there is an announcement coming, there isn't an announcement coming etc etc) Some of this may well be true. BUT, before jumping to a conclusion, check out what is happening in the broader market to see whether the WAVX movement is purely WAVX or just part of a larger market movement, but possibly with more volatility.
As ever, I remain committed to the long term success of Wave
It's nice to speculate, but we're just following the market, maybe a little more violently. Just look at the 1 month DJI chart, and then the 1 month WAVX chart. Notice anything similar?
Thanks Clay. A really useful analysis for non-techies like me
$50M Market Cap:
We're almost back at a $50M market cap. Any thoughts on this?
9.9%!! Not sure if anyone has mentioned this, but is there any significance in a 9.9% holding, i.e what are the rules, if any, if any one shareholder has more than 10%? Do they have to make a bid, or what? Also, given the volumes lately, I concur with the view that this holding has either been bought up over a long time, or, more likely, this person underwrote the last placing or 2! Recent volumes simply don't support 6 million shares changing hands
Snackman: Mail, at least I hope I have the right address
Ron
Check the Wave press release of 12 December 2008 (click the relevant link on the quotes page here on IHub). That suggests if we are worth more than $50million by/on/for 14 days up to/or whatever 17 February 2009 we are back on the Glocal Market, under the Nasdaq Market Value Rule. Or is there another interpretation of that?
Internet: Interesting question! Volumes are fairly low. Even with todays volume, the last few days were not "watch the volume, this is it!" sort of volumes. Maybe the buyers are the same sort of people who bought them in the past when we wanted/needed to be at a certain price by a certain time. Don't ask me to quote when and where, but there have been many occasions when the stock price seemed fortuitously to go up when needed, eg prior to a share placement or whatever, only to come back down on "profit taking".
As I said, let's see what happens post February 17. Let's even see how far we move above a $50million valuation over the next few days. Don't misunderstand me, for my part, I want you to be right and me wrong!
internet
Could well be! But such a rapid runup!
As I said, let's see what happens post February 17
ootommy
I think it's 35M for the Capital Market, and 50M for the Global Market relisting!
Am I the only one on here cynical enough to think that our current stock price has more to do with meeting the $50million valuation by February 17, required by the Nasdaq Market Value Rule for getting back on the Nasdaq Global Market, than anything else? At the moment our valuation is $51.5mill.
How long do we have to be over $50million to comply with the Market Value Rule?
Forgive me for sounding a bit cynical, but isn't there a strong likelihood that the current price pop is related principally to the Nasdaq relisting?
May I echo that sentiment from across the pond. Somehow the far horizons looks a little brighter today than they did yesterday, but hopefully less bright than tomorrow.
May that sentiment accompany our small band of Wavoid brothers (and sisters) over the next year!
Kiwi In the normal course of events you would be right. However, when the original buy recommendation was given, the target price was, I believe $1.25. So, we have reached and even exceeded the original target. So, of course, what they are now saying is "don't buy, cos the stock has reached and exceeded the price we said it would". So they now say hold. If they still said buy, they would have to give a target price somewhat higher than the present one. What hold means, (as opposed to sell or buy) is that they expect the price to remain in its current zone, give or take, neither up nor down.
I'm happy with that
From todays news in the UK
Computer discs holding personal data on 25m people and 7.2m families have gone missing, Chancellor Alistair Darling has admitted to MPs.
He said the details included names, addresses, dates of birth, Child Benefit numbers, National Insurance numbers and bank or building society account details. That effectively means the personal details of every family in the country with a child under 16 have gone missing. Paul Gray, chairman of her Majesty's Revenue and Customs (HMRC), which lost the discs, has resigned over the affair. The Metropolitan Police have confirmed they are investigating the loss of the password-protected discs which were wrongly sent last month to the National Audit Office (NAO) but never arrived.
Mr Darling said police had no evidence the information "has found its way into the wrong hands" or of any evidence that it has been used for fraud. He has appointed Kieran Poynter, chairman of Price Waterhouse Coopers, to investigate HMRC security procedures. The Prime Minister has "full confidence" in Mr Darling despite the benefits records blunder, Gordon Brown's spokeswoman said. She added that Mr Darling has not offered to resign.
Two marked police vans and a patrol car were parked outside an office of HMRC at Waterview Park in Washington, Tyne and Wear, which is understood to have been visited by police investigating the missing CDs. Mr Darling told Mr Brown "immediately" after learning of the problem, according to the Prime Minister's spokeswoman.
"Obviously the Prime Minister and the Government take the protection of personal data extremely seriously," she added. "This is an issue which he considers to be very important." The spokeswoman said the Prime Minister "fully supported" the action being outlined by the Chancellor to deal with the issues.
Mr Darling told the Commons: "I regard this as an extremely serious failure by HMRC in their responsibility to the public."
Gucci
I think many of us share the same sentiments. However, the thing that I keep coming back to is not whether the Board does or does not own massive volumes of stock, but what prompts them still to be on board. In my view, the biggest investment that SKS and his senior execs are putting in is their TIME, 10+ years in the prime of their working lives.
So, in my view, the key question is what is driving them to continue investing their time in Wave? A mediocre salary (in the grand scheme of things!) or a belief that good times are ahaead. Where does the "family business" fit into this thought? You tell me!
The greater likelihood is that they would have naked shorted at the peak of near $3 a few days ago, and covered via the PP. However, as Snackman points out, there has been no volume worth talking about to unload 7 million+ shares. So the likelihood is that they are still holding most if not all, and need a price rise to make their money. Watch for any price spikes in the near future, probably based on news of some sort or other, again likelihood is that they will sell into them
Any stock with a low absolute stock price is, all other things considered, inherently riskier than one with a higher stock price. So, it is not unreasonable, in general terms, to short a low priced stock. The upside is still $2 for them. As for the downside, no-one will make a take out bid out of the blue at, say, $10. Why would they? First of all, they would buy as much as they could in the market. That would push the price up and give shorters an opportunity to close their positions.
Anyway, as we have just seen, yet again (weary, isn't it?) is that without actual earnings, rapid increases and rapid decreases go hand in hand.
Yes, Wave is getting old. I first bought in 9 years ago, but what the business is now is poles away from what it was then. If you bought into the micro transaction processing model of 10 years ago, then why are you still here now. That died years ago. If you stayed in over the recent years because of the Trusted Computing angle, then why sell now? Only you can evaluate the tax loss numbers insofar as they apply to you. I don't know what the tax loss laws are in the US, but can't you sell now (before March 31) and buy back in sometime in the new tax year without them being related transactions? Come to think of it, maybe lots of people selling before March 31 for tax loss reasons might have a depressive effect on the price! Maybe the short termers know this, and are anticipating the expected sell-off.
So you want to frustrate their efforts? Answer: don't sell now! QED
Two weeks ago I said the surge in share price always happens prior to earnings announcements, and that it would fall back after the results were published. I was told I was wrong, this time the surge was due to Seagate, and so on, but I leave others to form their own view.
What is abundantly clear to me is that to a very large extent the market for Wave stock at this time, and in general, is an artificial market, probably manipulated by the MM's and other interests. The market for Wave stock at this time reflects short term rather than long term considerations. It is pity that you seem to have succumbed to their nefarious activities. For my part, I bought today! The stock will pick up when (not, not "if") volume shipments come through. I am as frustrated as you are with the missed forecasts, but all I can say is that the market is not driven by Wave. Wave on its own is a facilitator, not a driver of the market
Good luck in any case. You hung in for a long time, longer than many