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Penny, Im pretty sure that Ace in his last post just before the reverse split took effect announced that he had sold out, so kudos to him. However, I wouldn't be surprised if he might be willing to send a small donation to the cause.
Thanks for your contribution offer. We shall see how things evolve, and I will make some calls next week to see who might be interested in our case. Anyone else who may have some legal contacts, feel free to make some contacts as well.
Since we're considering legal action against Hilal, there is one key question that needs to be asked. And that is...what value per share would it take to not pursue a law suit? I realize that number will be different for each shareholder based on when they purchased shares, whether they averaged down at .0001, and whether they are a newbie or a long-termer. It's also a question about each person's perception of what the company is actually worth.
We're in a position where unless we do undertake a lawsuit with full forensic accounting that we'll likely never know what the real value of Cetek is since we have no idea if Hilal is reporting legitimate numbers or has funneled assets to other legal entities.
So that is a question that must be considered before we proceed. Do we feel at all confident that the numbers reported to us reflect the real value of Cetek Technologies? A lawsuit will undoubtedly be a long drawn out process and will likely require some of us to dig deep into our pockets to take it to fruition. And for most shareholders here, who only had a few million shares before the R/S, it's obviously not worth spending money on a lawsuit. But for larger shareholders, there is a BIG difference between 13 cents and say a dollar a share. And it's possible that if we did the forensic accounting that we might be talking multiple dollars for the assets including the proprietary processes that Hilal is "removing" from us.
Based on Hilal's secretiveness and character issues and his complete absence of fiduciary responsibility to shareholders, I seriously doubt we will ever feel confident that anything coming out of that place is complete and accurate. I have the feeling that Hilal is the type of guy who did most of his paperwork while sitting on the crapper, and I wouldn't be surprised if most of the supporting documents were flushed. Maybe that's where all those PRs he promised Penny and others went.
Anyway, share valuation is what this case is all about, and we need to hear shareholders' thoughts on that.
I appreciate the apology Penny. You were definitely right in your fear of Hilal's intentions. I was wrong because even though I thought he was a bizarre character, I believed he would take the legal route and reward all shareholders, including himself and his family, which he could have accomplished thru his preferred shares. Instead he chose to do whatever this is.
At any point in the last seven years if Hilal had just put out a PR with revenues and cash balances like he just did, especially along with the reinstatement, most all of us would have had a chance to recover enough of our losses to have closure on this sad chapter with Hilal.
But he chose to leave the stock at no bid all these years without shareholders having any idea if the stock was worthless or worth a considerable amount. And now he has a bunch of angry shareholders who understand that this almost "worthless" outcome never should have happened. It was NEVER going to be a path to great riches, but for most longer-term investors, who could have averaged down as warranted based on good news, or new investors at .0001, this should have been a minimal loss or even a positive return. And he never should have removed our assets from the company.
Thanks Fetter. Good to see you as well.
Since this now seems more of a fraud case than anything else, it may be easier to approach this than with the contingency class action approach we previously tried without success in 2012-2013. That effort got sidetracked when Hilal reinstated the company and we decided to be patient. Before, it was a case of negligence of fiduciary responsibilities to shareholders, which is a tougher case to prove, although I always felt that seven years in the wilderness without communication was a clear neglect of fiduciary responsibilities. Now, when we combine that with removing our company's assets, it could be a pretty easy case to win.
But it will take at least a month to track down the "right" attorney who meets our criteria for contingency and a small upfront retainer and who seems sufficiently motivated to pursue this to a satisfactory ending.
Penny, do you recall how I beseeched you on many occasions to sell CTKH stock in the mid trip zeros if you thought Hilal was untrustworthy? I bet you wish you had listened.
I did not sell much of mine because I always felt that Hilal would eventually do what was right for the shareholders because he and his family and friends were involved. I figured with the preferred shares he would convert those into about a half ownership position in CTKH common stock. UNFORTUNATELY, I was clearly wrong about Hilal's intentions, and it appears a half position wasn't enough for him, that he wants it all.
So yes, we are going to have to find a lawyer and go after Hilal. In the meantime, I am hoping that there will be a pump and some bid support from the new company and possibly Hilal to facilitate the 1.5 million shares of Cetek holders being able to exit in the range of .60 to maybe a dollar (.0001 to .0002) pre-split before the dilution begins. I suspect a considerable chunk of that 1.5 million shares has already exited, mostly at lower prices. Hopefully, most of the newer investors can get out with only minimal losses and put this sad investment chapter to rest.
There is absolutely no reason that over the last seven years the stock couldn't have run many times to .001 to .002 IF only Hilal had had enough sense to communicate some of the good things that happened along the way. It could have traded like any other pink sheet stock, except this company had a lot more solid base of revenues and cash than almost any other pink sheet stock out there. We just had a crazed dysfunctional CEO who was too selfish and too stupid to communicate with shareholders.
Orange, this is a warning to you. You're a moderator and the next time you try to suggest that DannyD or myself is in any way associated with Hilal other than as long-suffering shareholders who have many times led efforts against Hilal to see that shareholders are treated fairly, then I will go on a personal crusade to see that you are permanently banished as moderator from this board. Of all people, with what has been unearthed about you, to criticize anyone.
I am sure that the legal process which will probably be taken will be led by Dannyd and myself. You could never organize anything with that complexity or even intelligently discuss it. If you want to point the finger at a pumper, you do recall you predicted a penny PRE-SPLIT several months ago, and it's just all hot air coming out of you about your being right about everything. You were right to sell your shares at .0002 when the R/S was announced. That's about it. You initially said that Hilal had mellowed and was more of a regular guy too. So you did what you could to pump the stock with major distortions.
Thanks Tennesseebound and to all for the positive feedback. I did try to be representative about most shareholders felt about the situation with the intent to try to get Hilal to not only understand how angry shareholders feel but to nudge him in the direction of making sure the shareholders are treated fairly as he disappears from the scene. However, the fact that he has not responded and continues to talk over me when I call him suggests that I've failed in my mission to get him to communicate further what is happening.
As I stated in an earlier post, the crime that has been perpetrated on shareholders, and as I have emphasized for years, is that Cetek was never a worthless company. As a pink sheet stock, Cetek was a really good 25 year old legitimate company making a profit, and it could have had great runs in the stock price probably up to .001 or .002 numerous times over the past seven years if Hilal had just published his financial numbers and PRed some of the high tech details of what Hybrid-Tek was doing. We wouldn't have had a hundred old-timers stuck in the stock because they had no idea of whether the stock was worth a penny or zero, and they would've had a chance to exit the stock and wouldn't have been around bashing the stock, and there would have been plenty of enthusiastic newcomers to the stock over the years who didn't look at Hilal as some bizarre broken-down antique non-communicative Neanderthal. The stock would have traded like any other pink sheet stock with its ups and downs, and like any other pink, people could have exited on some hype and bought back in when it hit rock bottom.
And while the stockholders from before the 2003 reverse split were never going to be made whole, they could have recovered some of their losses and those who averaged down enough at .0001 could have been made whole. He also wouldn't have had to dilute 1.6 billion shares at .00007 and .0001 and could have done about 200 million at .001 instead.
But Hilal chose to say nothing in full neglect of his fiduciary responsibility to shareholders, even though the company by any standard of a pink sheet stock was doing very well. That silence would drive any stock's price to zero, and now in his contorted demented mind he says he's doing a favor. And all shareholders were asking was the normal flow of information so that they could make intelligent buy sell hold decisions about their investment...the same flow of information which enticed us to buy the stock in the first place. The man was just absolutely clueless on the financial management side of his company. A kid running a lemonade stand has a better grasp of corporate finance than Hilal.
Glad you let him know Bullmarketman. I hope everyone does. Here's what I said to him:
To Fayiz@CetekTechnologies.Com
May 22, 2014
Dear Mr Hilal. This is xxxxxxxx, the gentleman who called you today, and after many years you finally gave me several minutes of your time. Regrettably, you wouldn't let me talk or ask any questions, but I do appreciate the fact that you took a couple minutes to talk about what has been done to Cetek shareholders. I interpret the fact that you talked with me today as opening a communication channel with someone who holds some influence within the shareholder base. I was the individual who composed the letter to the NY District Attorney complaining about your lack of reporting to shareholders. You may have seen it. But I bring this up because I can probably mobilize 50% of the Cetek shareholders within days.
This is going to be a rather lengthy email and I am requesting that you read every word and then respond back to me that you have seen and read this. Your incentive to do so is that (1) you will gain some much needed insight into how shareholders view this situation, and (2) you will have established a channel of communication with one of the five largest shareholders you have and one of the most influential shareholders in terms of ability to mobilize shareholder opinion and action or INACTION. That would be me and I promise you that I will be totally fair with you to ensure that both you and the shareholders have the best possible outcome from what right now appears to be an impending disaster for everyone. If you are open and honest about the situation and give us some idea of what is really happening, then I will make every effort to see that you get additional time before the shareholders take any action, if any. It's entirely in your hands through this communication channel. And I assure you that there are some very intelligent well-funded individuals in your shareholder base who have a PIT BULL tenacity about seeing that justice is served here. So do the smart thing for once Mr Hilal. Read this and acknowledge that you have read it because you are playing with fire.
The little olive branch you sent me today is what is prompting this email, because we are in DIRE need of some additional communication before your angry and dismayed shareholders take actions that will more than likely be detrimental to your future business success. I know you're in poor health, and no one needs the kind of stress that can be generated through the social media outlets, local newspapers, Finra, SEC, the Defense Department, state district attorneys and the courts. And trust me Mr Hilal, there are a number of deep-pocketed investors who have a lot of shares in Cetek and who are willing to foot the bill to see that justice is served. Plus, you had better realize that there are a number of individuals I know who invested substantial sums in your business and they're not going to hesitate to fund the legal activity to ensure that you're not stealing our company.
While I have tremendous respect for your scientific achievement, you need to listen and listen well to what I'm about to say. You like to refer to everyone as stupid, as you did with me today. And no doubt I am STUPID compared to your scientific genius in advanced ceramics. But in the same vein, when it comes to communication and knowledge of finance, you are the STUPID one and I am the brilliant one. And I assure you the gulf between you and me in those two areas is as vast as the gulf between what I know about advanced ceramics and what you know.
But I have come to think of you as almost an idiot savant. You are brilliant in one aspect of your life and backward in almost every other aspect of your life. Look at your anger Mr Hilal. Here you are facing the twilight years of your life, and you still have this HUGE anger every time you don't get your way or someone dares to challenge your authority on something. I got over that childish anger in my teens and quickly learned that you cannot be THE authority on everything. That's the concept of a team, that you have specialists who excel in their discipline and you pay them for their expertise so that the team can reach greater heights. Instead, you tried to do everything yourself including being the receptionist and the IR person. Look at what that Lone Ranger management style got you Mr Hilal. It made you old and in poor health long before it should have, and you've turned millions of dollars of shareholder money into NOTHING.
You took money from shareholders and didn't have the common sense to give them an update for seven years, despite the fact that your company was doing well, and possibly extremely well a couple years back. DO YOU REALIZE THAT AT ANY POINT IN THE LAST FIVE OR SIX YEARS WITH THE STOCK TRADING AT NO BID THAT YOU COULD HAVE PRed A COUPLE MILLION IN REVENUES AND SHARED ONE OF THE HYBRID-TEK SCIENTIFIC CONTRACTS THAT THE SHARE PRICE COULD HAVE SHOT UP TO A COUPLE TENTHS OF A CENT AND YOU WOULD HAVE BEEN RID OF MANY OF THE DISGRUNTLED PAST SHAREHOLDERS INCLUDING MYSELF?
You got mad at me about seven years ago when I told you that it would be wise to buyback the shares when they were trading at such a huge discount to their worth. I suggested that if you needed the cash later, then you could dilute at much higher prices as you PRed the business success or even use some debt financing, and everyone would benefit. You got upset and asked me if I thought I could run the business better than you, and I TRUTHFULLY said "yes, the finance part". And you hung up on me and until today never had a word for me since. Do you understand how insane it is to treat a big shareholder that way Mr Hilal? DO YOU UNDERSTAND HOW MISERABLY YOU HAVE TREATED THE SHAREHOLDERS ALL THESE YEARS BY YOUR TOTAL REFUSAL TO PROVIDE ANY COMMUNICATION?
Do you realize that instead of providing a simple 15 minute press release to shareholders once a year with revenues and income and accomplishments that you forced them to spend thousand of hours on the internet trying to find out what was going on in that secret enclave of yours? And did you not realize that by cloaking your operation in total secrecy that you were creating tremendous suspicion and anguish amongst shareholders that you were stealing their hard-earned investment dollars? AND WHY WOULD ANYONE BELIEVE THAT AT THE TIME YOU ARE IN VERY POOR HEALTH AND NEED TO CASH OUT THAT SUDDENLY YOU DECIDED TO DO THE RIGHT THING FOR SHAREHOLDERS? Do you see the predicament you created entirely by your lunatic secrecy? What person in their right mind would do this to the shareholder base that saved your company in the early 2000s, and then your reward was to destroy almost every last cent of the shareholder equity that you so proudly proclaimed you were building in every PR you provided in the mid 2000s.
I hate to say this to you Mr Hilal, because I believed that even with your communication issues that you were basically well-intentioned and that for everyone's sake, including you and your family, in the end you would see that the shareholders would receive some reward for their patience, but instead, you have been an absolute disaster as a CEO. You had a fantastic product and you should have realized your dream of becoming a listed company with tens of millions in revenues and a stock with a big Wall Street PE ratio. You should have been able to buyback the shares and drive your price to several cents and then do a relatively small reverse split to get to a listed exchange. With your scientific brilliance and products, you should have a loyal and admiring shareholder base and everyone should have benefitted greatly. Your shareholders should have been part of your marketing team, recommending your company to other companies. Instead, we have this little mom and pop operation which no one has any idea if it's been pilfered or not with all these entities you've created which don't show up in the balance sheet or income statements.
Do you see the problem here Mr Hilal? Your credibility is somewhere between Pinnochio and the devil. How can anyone believe that after seven years of deliberately suppressing the share price, which is precisely what your communication blackout accomplished, that you have done something positive for the shareholders. If you had just PRed at any time that you had even these miserable revenues you reported of $1.5 million, which has to be a lie based on the $628k in the bank, the stock would have traded anywhere between .0005 and .001. People could have at least sold the stock. And the fact that the company sat at no bid for seven years and you never bought back a share, even recently diluted at .00007 when you had $628k in the bank, are you just totally retarded? How in the world do you see that was in the shareholders' best interest? Only a fool would have an opportunity to buy back shares at .0001 all those years and not done it. Had you done it, the shareholders could have gotten up to A PENNY a share pre-split. Instead we sit at .00003, and you are going to wear the reputation as one of the worst CEOs ever unless you do something positive. I assure you that will be your legacy, and anytime a CEO does something stupid, then we will say the CEO "pulled a Hilal".
OR..you can go out with some dignity, by ensuring that the deal with this new company provides an initial share price at least representative of a company with $628k in cash and $1.6 million in revenues. And if you're hiding revenues in other entities that belong or should belong to Cetek Technologies, then you need to come clean about that. There is also the issue of the proprietary processes, including the Cetek Process, which may be worth far more than the company itself. And I assume they go along with your private company, which again is unfair to shareholders, as we bought and paid for that research and development.
This is a lot to deal with in a short time frame Mr Hilal. But many discussions like this should have been addressed over the last seven years and not in an overnight time frame. Why were you stupid enough to think you could just take the Cetek assets and sell us as a shell and not even give us a company name or even more ridiculously a time frame for when they will tell us who has acquired us? I encourage you Mr Hilal to respond quickly and start addressing these issues. I reiterate....there needs to be immediate additional communication about how the shareholders will be affected with this transaction.
Shareholders are beyond angry and in short order will use every media platform and legal means possible, including referral to the Department of Defense, to see that there are equal outcomes both for the shareholders and yourself. I also reiterate that none of this ill-feeling would exist if you hadn't disappeared on the shareholders for seven years and miserably failed to exercise your fiduciary responsibilities to shareholders. You had so much potential Mr Hilal, but just wasted 95% of what it could have been if you had just listened to some good advice, and I'm not speaking of just myself, and exercised a little common sense that most people have by age 18. What a waste as a scientist, person, and most of all CEO. You should have been so much better than this. And I'm not blameless either. I should have sold your stock the minute you showed your ugly obnoxious side to me, because that was the first clue you were a big loser.
All that said...if you want to go out with some dignity and provide some clarification of what will happen with Cetek shareholders, and perhaps sweetening the offer, I will do everything I can to communicate with other shareholders and to discourage any actions which might be harmful to you or the other shareholders. It's never too late to do the right thing Mr Hilal, and you do not want the legacy of personal suffering and anger and disgust that you're leaving with your beloved company which you gave 25 hard years of your life. And I assure you that Cetek will be far more remembered for wiping out every cent of shareholder value than it will for any of your scientific accomplishments if the shareholders don't get a good deal with this sale. Do the right thing Mr Hilal. Get rid of the shady lawyerly tactics which can't even get a financial statement right in three tries. I will even offer to write a PR for you for free.
You created this horrible mess with seven years of silence when the stock could have been trading at some semblance of fair value and most of the disgruntled shareholders would have sold, taken their loss and moved on. But with your silence the shareholders NEVER knew if the company was worthless or worth a penny a share pre-split. So they hung in there and that's on you Mr Hilal. That's just a basic lack of respect and stupidity. That may have something to do with your heart problems as well, because there are a number of us who think you're like the Grinch Who Stole Christmas, that your heart size is two sizes too small. But remember Mr Hilal, even the Grinch's heart finally grew, and I expect you to do the same. Don't forget to acknowledge you received this because it will really pi$$ me off if after me taking all this time to compose this and help you out, that you choose to ignore me. Sincerely, xxxxxxx.
Hi gang. I've been on a vacation of sorts the last week and not really up to date on the message board at all. I also wanted to give Hilal a few days to think about what I said to him in the email that I had to fax to him since none of his email addresses were functional.
The day after I sent it, and lacking a response from him, I contacted him to see if he had read it or not. He said no, but since it was faxed, I have to believe he read it. It is a pretty scathing factual attack, so I guess I'd expect him to lie about reading it.
The bottom line, as I perceive things is that Hilal is taking the position that he did us a favor by selling the shell of a NON-TRADING company and taking the assets for himself. He did say he isn't getting a cent out of the sale, whatever that means. However, he seems to be missing the fact that he is absconding with the assets of our company. He also seems to be missing out on the fact that our company would NEVER have been mired at no bid and not trading all those years if he had divulged even the puny and probably low-ball financial details he recently filed.
The crime that has been perpetrated on us, and as I have emphasized for years, is that Cetek was never a worthless company. As a pink sheet stock, Cetek was a really good 25 year old legitimate company making a profit, and it could have had great runs in the stock price probably up to .001 or .002 numerous times over the past seven years if Hilal had just published his financial numbers and PRed some of the high tech details of what Hybrid-Tek was doing. There would have been plenty of enthusiasm for the stock over the years, and while the stockholders from before the 2003 reverse split were never going to be made whole, they could have recovered some of their losses and those who averaged down enough at .0001 could have been made whole. He also wouldn't have had to dilute 1.6 billion shares at .00007 and .0001 and could have done about 200 million at .001 instead. But Hilal chose to say nothing, which drove the stock price to nothing, and now in his contorted demented mind he says he's doing a favor. His financial management skills are non-existent.
The man is so divorced from reality that it is not possible to have a conversation with him. He just starts talking over you and will not listen. And the man outside of his ceramics knowledge is just a lost ball in really high weeds.
That said, it remains to be seen who we have been sold to. Reverse mergers can be some of the most rewarding plays in pink sheet land, so there's plenty of room for hope here, especially with this miniscule 2 million A/S.
However, as far as Hilal, I think it is time to look at all rational but legal shareholder actions that make sense, because Hilal remains shrouded in mystery and deceit, and there's absolutely no reason that shareholders in Cetek since 2005 and beyond shouldn't have had the opportunity for a profitable experience. I will post my email to Hilal with a few minor edits later this evening.
One last point..the fact that Hilal has been answering my phone calls without the immediate hang-up suggests to me that he is very concerned about what the shareholders may be up to. And it may be a good idea for other shareholders who had given up on getting thru to him to give him a call and let him know that we're not just going to ignore him riding off into the sunset with our assets.
To update, none of the email links mentioned on the websites is currently working, so I just printed the email and sent it by fax. So it is now in Hilal's hands. I hope for everyone's sake that he listens for once and decides to be communicative.
I appreciate your comments BigBet and sure hope you come out with a positive outcome, at least for any additional shares you bought. There was certainly enough good news out there to have supported a decent run in Cetek's stock many times over the past seven years where stuck shareholders could have gotten some of their money back and Hilal could have diluted less at much higher prices. A PR a few months back explaining the intent to sell the company would have gotten us a great move in the stock price.
But the good information sadly has been far eclipsed by the incompetence of the CEO in his financial management of the company. Hopefully, he has cut a deal with a decent company which is at least shareholder-friendly.
DrLarzo, I believe you would be my choice for a follow-up call to Mr Hilal. Let him know how many shares you bought upfront, and maybe he will provide some additional information to you.
Bigcue, I included your verbiage in the email.
You're welcome Fglobal. I sent the letter late last night but discovered Fayiz@cetektechnologies isn't valid anymore. So I resent it to Info and Carreers @Cetektechnologies this morning. I asked for a response and will let the board know if I receive one. It's a scathing attack but an offer to help, so we shall see what happens.
I just got off a phone call with Hilal. I did not introduce myself and started the phone conversation with something fairly obnoxious, and was expecting an immediate hang-up. But surprisingly, he said "I want you to listen to what I have to say before you say things out of stupidity". I attempted to respond but he cut me off, as he would do throughout the conversation So I really didn't get to ask questions, but he talked for about three minutes. The main gist of the conversation was that he did what was best for the shareholders and for me not to be talking in ignorance of what has happened. That of course begged the question who we have been passed off to, but as I said, he would not allow any questions. .
I don't intend to answer additional questions about the conversation at this time. However, it seems to me that this is a positive development that he has opened a channel of communication with me, perhaps fearful of the consequences of continued silence on his part.
What I intend to do tonight is compose an email to Hilal and stress the importance of additional communication about how the shareholders will be affected with this transaction. I will let him know that shareholders are beyond angry and in short order will use every media platform and legal means possible to see that there are equal outcomes both for the shareholders and himself. I will also point out that none of this ill-feeling would exist if he hadn't disappeared on the shareholders for seven years.
So that's my immediate Cetek plan. Just listening to his fairly impassioned monologue, it sounds like we will be happy with the company we've been sold to, but he didn't provide any details.
But back to Penemy's great post the other night, it sounds like Hilal had/has some understanding that he has to provide something to the shareholders or face the consequences.
In rereading the "farewell address" by Hilal, I had a couple of additional thoughts that I will share.
When I think of a man making a "Farewell" address, I think of a man of great stature who provided almost super-human leadership and is revered and beloved by the general populous. Someone like George Washington or Douglas McArthur whose departure engenders a moment of great admiration and respect and sadness to see the departure of a great leader from the scene. I don't think that right is reserved for a seedy, lying, incompetent, lowlife character who even managed to misspell the name of his 25 year old company in the first line of what he should have called the "C Ya Address".
Having said that, I do think going forward that almost any person or company is preferable to the incompetent speech-challenged leadership we have experienced over the past decade, which recently came to a total climax with his bungling of the communication surrounding the recent corporate developments.
Orangeman, while I'm sure a shell is worth a lot more than $35k, I threw out a number I had seen from a while back, so my valuation may well be be dated and excessive. I would defer to the valuations Paytheask and Fetter have provided this morning because I'm sure they're more up to date than me on the subject.
Just as a piece of personal advice, you might want to be careful throwing that word "crook" around.
Oh..correction..I thought CTKH closed at .29 but I see it closed at .21, so our current market cap is about $250,000 or about a third of what a shell is worth. Almost comical if it weren't so sad. C ya Hilal.
I think it all depends on who he's sold us to Penemy. If it's a solid company which is looking to uplist, and the share price reflects that, then Hilal will have done us a great favor, as he is incapable of generating share value. The part of the letter where Hilal mentions that the new company specifically asked for this share structure brings back my initial enthusiasm when I saw the R/S filing by Hilal, that the purpose is to get to a higher exchange. And if that's the case, the new company will PR and show good financials before they start any dilution, and that would be so much better than having Hilal involved, incapable of even writing a two paragraph press release.
If that's not the case, then I agree completely that any avenue that's out there and LEGAL, then we do it. And the first thing that occurs to me is to bombard congressmen and the defense department with letters detailing Hilal's theft and demanding Cetek's ITAR certification be removed.
Penemy, I just finished reading thru about a hundred posts tonite. And I give you my vote for making the most sense out of a situation which became a bit more bizarre today, if that's possible. Without knowing who we've been sold to, everything is just crazy speculation and very humble uninformed opinions. And now I will add mine to the pile.
With Cetek's market cap at about $350,000 now, it is difficult to imagine a company being merged into this shell for a smaller market cap than that. I have always heard that a basic shell is worth $750,000, so if that's what we are now, then we should be worth at least 60 cents now. And if you think about it, under Hilal's "leadership", even with $628k in the bank, we were only worth about 40 to 50 cents and going to drop further in the absence of news.
One thing is for sure. The new company will issue a PR announcing themselves in as glowing terms as possible. And we will finally be thrust out of this never-never Hilalland where the CEO does everything he can to suppress the stock price and dilute the shares at as low a price as possible. I am confident that the new CEO will see share issuance at the highest price possible as a priority and will issue PRs to ensure that the stock price at least reflects some semblance of the enterprise's value. And I am confident that the new CEO will at least have some semblance of financial management skills where he is willing to use a balance of debt/equity to capitalize the company, so that he doesn't drive the share price into the ground as Hilal did with his irrational fear of any debt.
I also believe that the new CEO will have some understanding of fiduciary responsibility to shareholders, unlike Hilal. He will understand that a supportive shareholder base is one of the most important assets a company can have and will strive at least initially to get the shareholders onboard with the company's objectives. We know this will be a "reporting" company, so each quarter we will have some idea of the progress of our company. That is worth a tremendous amount to us.
At first blush, this looks like heaven to me compared to what we have been thru all these years. I don't like the idea of Hilal stealing our assets, but it's entirely possible a reverse merger of a several million dollar company into this shell could move the stock price to at least the $6 level. And anyone who reads Hilal's farewell letter (good riddance and what a bunch of lies about supportive shareholders) and his mention of the required 6000 to 1 R/S, that becomes curiouser and curiouser why they wanted that share structure. That sounds like they have designs on a higher exchange, and won't dilute the crap out of the stock. And I wouldn't be surprised at all to find this is a foreign company, maybe Chinese, which has plans for movin' on up. I agree with you Penemy that it's a pretty good bet that the stock price after the new firm's introduction will at least go up enough to make sure that we don't get lawyered up to go after Hilal's private company.
It's all speculation. but at least the way I'm thinking tonight, I believe we'll be a lot better served without a non-communcative, angry, obese, unhealthy, unhappy and nasty CEO who didn't have the sense to generate a market cap greater than a couple million dollars for a company which I believe was generating revenues in excess of $5 million dollars. I guess we will never know what it really was unless we have to litigate this. But I sort of suspect our new company's first announcement will make us forget about any desire to go after Hilal's pathetic life's work. He had so much potential, but just wasted 95% of what it could have been. What a waste as a scientist, person, and most of all CEO.
Hey Fetter. Welcome back my friend. Based on the hiring spree and the ITAR compliance kicking in, I'd say we have some good things to look forward to in the next quarterly report.
That late day CTKH pop appears to have taken some wind out of some people's sails for the weekend. You have a good one.
Thanks Philoujib. It's definitely hard to reconcile a lot of the CTKH DD with what Hilal reported, but eventually we will get to the bottom of the mystery. Good luck to you, and I will definitely PM you and others of any potentially important developments. I remain very hopeful that a sale of the company is the ultimate objective. The ITAR developments and health issues are at the forefront of developments IMHO.
Penny, I like many of the recently jailed Cetek longs would prefer not to be bullied any further. We know this isn't a fair game here, how our posts get deleted and we end up in jail, and the posts of certain bashers which go far beyond the pale, and are not deleted unless requested, when we all know that certain moderators are reading every post in real time.
I will take that as a prediction by you that Cetek is headed to subpenny. Can you give me a timeframe on that Penny or will this be like your ten year R/S prediction, which you managed to get wrong, when out of the blue, you pulled your prediction at the last possible second.
I would prefer you not respond to my posts Penny. You, like Orange have an agenda here, and I want no further contact from you. There is supposed to be free speech on this forum, and the bullying needs to stop. It went completely over the top when you referred to me as a "paid tout" and said I had some sort of relationship with Cetek. That was complete and utter nonsense, and it was definitely a false attack, but of course, allowed to stand. As a moderator, you are not supposed to be bullying people and telling lies. But that is just par for the course with two of our moderators.
You are free to continue with your Rip Van Winkle, Reverse split coming, Cetek may go up or it may go down posts to manipulate the minds of the newbies. Just the other day, you said you would sell your Cetek at 25 dollars. And I said...maybe $6 at most unless he sells the company. Now you're calling for subpenny. There can be no rational discourse with a person who is as all over the board as you, so I'm thru trying. I will continue to post my thoughts and due diligence, and you just feel free to put me on ignore.
But if you want me to start a campaign with IHUB to get you removed as moderator, you just keep up the bullying and unwanted posts to me. There are other forums as well.
Agreed Paytheask. As I've pointed out several times, look for negative trading about 95% of the time and anybody in short-term mode, especially when they're listening to the several bashers here allowed to run rampant, it's going to be a psychologically challenging environment for any Cetek longs. But when something positive comes out, then the price adjusts upward in fairly short order with just a tiny number of shares traded. From 31.4 cents to 60 cents...almost 100% in a little over a day.
I guess for now as long as information continues to trickle out and the stock price recovers, that it's best to exercise some patience here. The time for Plan B and nuclear options can wait a little longer to see if some of the mysteries are in the process of being cleared up. It might even be worth waiting another quarter to see if some of the recent hiring spree and ITAR compliance shows up in the second quarter financial reporting or if we get the press release regarding new deals. Either of those would give us a nice boost in the stock price Who knows? Maybe further health issues or processes in place might see a sale of the company by then.
But no one should construe additional patience as any decline in the resolve to see Mr Hilal finally start exercising his fiduciary responsibilities to shareholders. And should the shareholder "patience" period, inspired by the recent, albeit seemingly highly "incomplete" or if you prefer "inaccurate" filings, expire due to an inadequate company response in the next few months, then all pro-active options should come under consideration.
Not everyone Ramspace...just the Cetek longs who are constantly being bullied. Go Cetek.
StockingUp, those are just diversionary tactics to keep the board talking about anything but Cetek. Stay on topic. There's some definite concern because of Cetek's 73% increase today on the release of the first quarter's financials. You need to check out the Facebook CTKHD site to read more on the tactics being employed here.
Hi Brezlin. I'm going to be out a chunk of the day tomorrow, but after a quick perusal of today's financials, I did want to point out a couple of things.
First of all, the company's current ratio is 10 to 1, which is pretty insanely good for a pink sheet company. The typical pink sheet company has Asher debt requiring about 5 billion shares to be converted into common stock over the next five years...LOL So there's not much risk of a sudden Cetek bankruptcy, as exists for most pinks.
Secondly, Cetek's net operating losses (NOL) are almost 4 million dollars, which would be another attractive feature for selling the company. Using a 35% tax rate, that equates to almost a dollar a share of value to an acquiring company.
Third, I continue to be astonished that there appears to be only one subsidiary being reported in the financial statements. So it begs the question which two, or at least one, if he considers Belanger an affiliate, is being excluded? I copied down the wording of the accountant Mr Galuppo, who is giving his qualified blessing of these statements. And you could drive a Mack truck thru the qualifiers in that statement:
In addition, I have no responsibility to identify and communicate significant deficiencies or material weakness in your internal control as part of this engagement.
A review consists of inquiries of the company personnel and analytical procedures applied to financial data. It is substantially less in scope than an audit in accordance with generally accepted auditing standards, the objective of which is the expression of an opinion regarding the financial statement taken as a whole. Accordingly, I do not express such an opinion.
I wonder if this will pass ITAR compliance.
Ramspace, thanks for your timely posting of this quarterly revenue information and your fabulous DD on this stock. You sparked a nice rally. Those bids were coming up fast at the end of the day.
Brezlin, I apologize for not giving a 100% endorsement to your 35 cent Cetek purchase idea the other day. The bashers had me convinced that weeds were growing over the whole top of the Cetek office tower. I hope you had the good sense to ignore my trepidations and my Hilal-communication-phobia and buy away.
Go cetek. I don't think so Shanghai. I wrote the pre-2007 purchases off mentally and decided to attack the situation anew from .0001 or 60 cents. So don't you worry your little head over me. I will be fine and you won't hear me whining regardless of what happens. I fully understand that Hilal is one poor communicator, and that's the only reason most of us newer Cetek shareholders aren't popping the bubbly already.
Besides, I don't think you understand what can happen with a stock with a float of 1.2 million shares. You just sit there and let the bashers scare the heck out of you when the stock is dropping on a couple hundred share trades between the MMs.
Go Cetek. That's ok Shanghai. Even seven years ago, as I well know, you made a mighty contribution to Cetek's coffers and the advancement of science. We appreciate your contribution. A little grumbling is ok with us.
Pennyworld, I saved your price prediction for Cetek for last, because you know you have a special place in my heart as the guy who predicted a Cetek R/S in practically every post for ten years, and then just two months before Hilal actually fulfilled your dream, you publically proclaimed that you didn't really think he would do one. You were so close to the finish line Penny and being sooo right, but you just gave out a little too soon.
Anyway, I see your public prediction on Cetek was ten cents. Can that be right?
PennyWorld Member Level
Tuesday, 05/06/14 10:43:04 AM
Re: None
Post # of 27392
I may pick up some shares at .10 I figure FH will be pumping around then. I'll dump right along with him.
Hey Shanghai, I see you did some DD this morning or at least asked someone to look into your DD. Good for you.
Anyway, I checked thru my posts and I haven't been able to find that post where I told you on May 7, 2014 that you would be rich off of Cetek Stock. I did express my thanks to you last night for investing in Cetek when it was a developmental company and taking that big hit on the 2002 R/S. Very dangerous to buy a developmental company because they're burning thru cash trying to develop their world-changing product and they have no revenues. That's a recipe for a R/S.
I made my first foray into Cetek when they were selling products and Hilal first claimed to be making a profit. But I salute your courage for taking one for the team so that a decade later, we can start seeing the great results of your sacrifice. Maybe you will get some of your funds back as well over the next few months or year or years. Please note that I am not giving you the precise date, so that you can avoid errors like yesterday when you insisted I had given you a date certain.
Now that Hilal has dribbled out the quarterly report, and we see despite not reporting one of his major subsidiaries that he is still reporting a profit, it's time to review the basher predictions. Let's start with OJ... Predicted 20 cents and we're at 54 cents... RIDICULOUSLY WRONG!!
Orangeman3 Wednesday, 05/07/14 02:48:33 PM
Re: WhatsCookin post# 27304
Post # of 27384
Yes likely does not mean a fact! Likely could mean could be, it was not stated as a fact. It not like we know 10 million in sales
And for your info all price predictions are out the window once a R/S takes place that is a known fact by all posters on I Hub Because all R/S mean the kiss of death on over 99% of them. Good chance this might see .20 that would be .0000333 on the old stock
Yes OJ, I did buy a fairly sizeable position in Cetek in 2005. My point I was making in the very relevant post to ShanghaiSteve, which for some strange reason was deleted, was that I did not buy into Cetek BEFORE it became a productional company. Those who bought into Cetek before the first reverse split bought a "DEVELOPMENTAL" company. What you need to understand about a developmental company is that they are primarily involved in the research and development of a product and therefore basically have no revenues.
While the product they're developing may sound and be presented like the most exciting thing since sliced bread, what the company CEO generally isn't emphasizing is that the company is burning thru whatever cash position it has like a California wildfire in a drought ravaged region. So while the star struck investors have visions of dollars dancing in their brain, unbeknownst to them, the company is devouring the cash from their most recent contribution at an alarming rate while the CEO assures them their money is going to a great cause. This is unfortunately the time frame that most of our most disgruntled shareholders bought Cetek stock, and the reason that I thank them for their contribution to the cause.
Then comes the unhappy news that the company is making great progress with their revolutionary product, but alas, the cash coffers are too low to keep the lights on, and there has to be a reverse split so the company can raise more capital. The point is that you want to be very careful about investing in a "developmental" company without a revenue stream, because that is the most likely place to run into a great amount of dilution. Below is the February 2005 press release where Cetek announces improving revenues, etc. This is about the time frame when I made my initial purchases into Cetek. but as you can read, it was not a purely developmental company at that time, although there was a considerable R&D expense thru 2006:
Cetek Technologies, Inc. Status Report
POUGHKEEPSIE, N.Y.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Feb. 7, 2005 The CEO of Cetek Technologies, Inc., (Pink Sheets:CTKH) today issued the following statement:
We take this opportunity to briefly report on our status of operations, as is customary, reflecting the fourth quarter of 2004.
Sales revenues grew, with this most recent quarter being the best yet, in terms of production and shipment of our proprietary ceramic substrate product. The 12 inch substrate material continues to sell exceptionally well; so well, in fact, that capacity to produce at the order flow rate is a challenge, and is an issue that we are dealing with. In this regard, we expect additional production capacity to be added shortly -- a result of increasing existing plant operations, as well as in gaining additional capacity as a result of outside acquisitions.
I previously indicated that our growth would be from internal expansion, as well as external, via acquisition of manufacturing companies with similar synergies. We've had the opportunity to analyze and inspect the books and physical operation of numerous target companies, which would enhance Cetek's overall business model and we have, in fact, been in ongoing negotiations.
Regarding our financial health, I am pleased to report that Cetek again made money. Specifically, we realized a 50% increase in ceramic revenues over the previous period.
Cetek Technologies is moving forward on its numerous growth prospects for 2005 and beyond. In the commercial sector, "nano emissive display" technology, or NED's, enable manufacturers to design large flat panel displays that exceed the image quality characteristics of plasma and LCD screens, but at a much lower cost. We're very interested in this application, as we have what we believe is a superior material for this type of product. NED technology could be used for much larger displays, such as those used in billboard advertising or sporting events, and our process could potentially have a role in this area.
Another promising area is in CNT (Carbon NanoTube) technology. CNTs are tubes of carbon atoms less than a nanometer in diameter, possessing a combination of unique properties making them highly programmable for a variety of purposes, including electron emitters for flat panel displays, an important area of interest for the Company.
In closing, I thank all shareholders for their continued support, and we look forward to keeping shareholders informed of our efforts in developing Cetek into a significant player in its industry, while striving to build shareholder value.
Respectfully,
Fayiz Hilal
CEO/President
About Cetek Technologies
Cetek Technologies' principal activity is to market and manufacturer ceramic products for several different industries. Cetek products are of high grade industrial ceramics including alumina, cordierite, mullite, and zirconia for thermal shock, wear, electrical isolation and corrosial resistance applications. Substrates are commercially produced in 12 inch panels, as well as larger sizes. In addition, CNT (carbon nanotube) technologies are being researched and co-developed for various applications, including fuel cells.
CONTACT: Stock Enterprises Jim Stock, 866-242-2405
Yes I agree with your post about Cetek End2war, but there are basher moderators deleting my posts, as evidenced by my very civil response to Shanghai,which was immediately deleted and his very uncivil post number 27283 has been out there for 2.5 hours and obviously read by the two bashing moderators and meets their approval. To one of the non-bashing moderators, I would like my post restored as it makes several very important points.
Here's the offending post from Shanghai which the bashing moderators think meets board standards.... http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=101653313
End2war I did see the Facebook link I think that you tried to reference and it sure fits the situation here to a tee. If I'm mistaken that you referenced it to me because I don't see that post anymore, then make sure you look on Facebook describing the board activity.
Yeah OJ and we had a President who said it depends on what the definition of "is" is.
It's ok Orange, if you want to stop with the personal attacks, then I will be happy to stop reading thru your Cetek file and producing the real record of your posting history, rather than the fantasy postings you now present to the board. Honesty is a good thing Orange, as I think you're learning, even if it has to be forced upon you sometimes.
Face it, you came rushing to the Cetek board with the activity in January, pumped it up in your posts until you sold most at .0004 and maybe some at .0005, and then your remaining batch at .0002. Right now, those look like great sales and I commend you on them. But now you're just bashing the stock to acquire shares at the lowest possible price, which I don't like from a moral standpoint, so you can wait for what will probably be a good PR or sale of the company and a nice profit.
Just don't try to present yourself as something you are not, because there is a posting record OJ.
Yes, thru the hard labor and savings of guys like Release, Orangeman, who was under another name back then, Penny, Shanghai and unfortunately some of our largest shareholders, we owe them a great debt for investing in this development stage company so that it could become a production company with great products used in scientific applications all over the world. Yes, they financed Hilal's great dream and I'm sure he would thank them in person if he were here, just like he did in all of the press releases in 2003 thru 2005.
And the newer shareholders who will more than likely reap most of the benefit, including the long termers who averaged down, they owe these pioneers who took the arrows and grumbled about it incessantly for ten years, a great debt, and their sacrifice will not soon be forgotten. At our big victory party, whenever that is, we will drink a toast to them as our kickoff to the celebration.
Yip Penemy, this new SS character on our Cetek Board has a lot of the anger attributes of a certain other poster on our board. think me, they might be the same or at least sitting together in the same boiler room? Go Cetek!
Orange, again you are putting out false information about Cetek employee counts. Hybrid-tek has 8 employees alone, not the Cetek empire which has over 30 including the eight at Hybrid-tek. Ask Ramspace or Hilal or the Cetek secretary.
You said Hilal had likely issued all ten billion pre-split shares, and I said no way, and I was a lot more right than you. That's why you're on here non-stop trying to discredit other people and only mention the parts of your comments that were in the realm of accuracy. You were more wrong in your price prediction than me dear OJ and I'm sorry your ego is bruised.
I do remain very optimistic about Cetek's potential based on the DD which has been done and the financials, which I believe are not reflective of Cetek's activities, possibly excluding a subsidiary. It's not a lost cause because all it would take is a decent PR about the purpose of the ITAR compliance and the stock would probably trade at a level which would make most of the newer stockholders very happy. Plus, if the company is being readied for a sale, then we will almost all be happy.
But we do have a very strange CEO who doesn't act in the shareholders best interests with his actions. And that's the reason we have an undervalued company becoming more undervalued.