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Apples to oranges. The Wright Bros. and Dr. Salk were the ones directly controlling their experiments which did eventually result in a payoff, unlike the escrow holders who have no control of this outcome whatsoever.
The "nothing is coming to escrows" folks (Team A) needn't expend any more time and effort trying to convince the "windfall is coming to escrows very soon" folks (Team B) because of the fact that escrows remain unpaid.
Despite countless predicted payoff dates that have come and gone without fruition, Team A continues to dominate the debate because the reality of no distribution speaks for itself. The actuality of 15+ years of no cash settlement for escrows is fundamental and offers far more credibility to Team A than the bottomless wishful thinking of Team B. One position is based on the credibility inherent to the facts of the matter while the other is based solely on yearning and desire.
But, never underestimate the power of denial. Therefore, it is unlikely that any argument from Team A nor any passage of time will ever convince the dreamers. Hope springs eternal.
COOP Is The Tell - Part II
On February 16, 2022, COOP closed at its historical high price per share of $52.34. Not even 60 days later, it is currently $40.38 per share which is a decrease of nearly 23%.
Whether COOP sells for $1.00 a share or $100.00 per share is not a determinant of whether escrows are paid. They are two separate issues. I'm not sure how it ever became intermingled among some of the posters.
I'm not trying to convince anyone who believes escrows will be paid otherwise. If these individuals want to believe the earth is flat so be it. They can keep waiting 14 more years hoping that their ship comes in despite all evidence to the contrary. As I've previously stated, if 14 years of failed projections, predictions, and payouts haven't convinced them certainly no words will. This post is just food for thought regarding COOP.
Mortgage rates continue to rapidly rise amid ongoing historically hyperinflated housing prices. Mortgage rates saw historic increases to start 2022, surging 156 basis points (1.56%) in the first quarter. It represented the fastest three-month rise since May 1994, according to Freddie Mac. The Fed is on the verge of raising mortgage rates by several 0.5% incremental increases in order to curb the runaway inflation that is currently underway. Many economists believe that mortgage rates could be near 6% by the end of the year, perhaps even higher. I do not believe those two factors are conducive to larger numbers of people taking out mortgages which is not good news for Mr. Cooper. The higher the interest rates the less affordable payments are for the vast majority of homebuyers and they tend to pull back on purchases.
And, if, as AZ says, COOP is the tell then it begs the question of what exactly is COOP telling us now?
Over the years, I've often wondered why you use yeppers, nopey and tupid for yes, no and stupid. I must be tupid because I cant figure it out.
If the trusted source truly had the ability to simply pick up the telephone and have a private conversation with Doreen as he claims and you obviously believe then you, by default, are asking people to also believe his claims of inside information and contacts even though he has offered no evidence to substantiate the claims. The source says it's true and we are expected to just believe it. No questions asked. No corroboration.
However, even if one believes his claims as you and several others do then it still begs the question as to why, with all of this inside knowledge, have his distribution predictions been 100% wrong all these years. Isn't that paradoxical?
The Twelfth of Never
As you know, sir, there is no evidence whatsoever to support any distribution to escrows. However, there is much evidence to support there is absolutely no money coming back to escrows with the most recent being Ms. Logan's emails. Not a penny, not a dime. It's been over for years. Some posters realized it - some posters didn't and still don't.
If there were ever going to be a distribution of billions of dollars to escrows it would be front-page news.
The PR quote couldn't be any clearer yet many posters ignored it because they couldn't accept the reality of it:
The foregoing notwithstanding, the so-called "Escrow Markers" or "Escrow CUSIPs" established by the Trust upon emergence from its Chapter 11 proceedings in March 2012 for purposes of facilitating the potential distribution of Reorganized WMI's common stock will continue to be maintained for the foreseeable future. As previously disclosed, however, former positions represented by such Escrow Markers or Escrow CUSIPs are not entitled to receive any distributions under the terms of the Plan and they do not, in and of themselves, represent an entitlement to any possible future distributions from the Trust, Reorganized WMI or the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (either in its corporate capacity or as the receiver for Washington Mutual Bank), as the case may be. As discussed above, no additional distributions of cash or equity will be made by the Trust subsequent to the Distribution, other than to one or more charities as contemplated by the Plan and Liquidating Trust Agreement.
Poster Boy and his minions want to now focus on COOP because it is an active stock and is tradeable and is potentially profit-making and it allows them to divert attention from the fact that escrows are worthless which totally negates their narrative and their hope. They want to elaborate on how well COOP is doing and how well it will do in the future and how many more shares of COOP they added. Well, COOP is just another stock now.
Most of the people on here aren't that interested in COOP because they hold relatively few, if any COOP shares, compared to the number of escrow shares they held. That's where the big payoff was supposed to be. Old, original Washington Mutual stock..............not COOP. There are people on this board who have hundreds of thousands of escrow shares (or did until recently) vs. a relatively small number of COOP shares.
After 14 years of unrealized escrow payout predictions, it has become beyond laughable that this saga continues with endless new dates and incredible projected returns. It has become a fool's paradise. And, it's hard to say which party is sadder............the posters who predict the new windfall dates or the ones who blindly believe them.
Your attempts to reason with these folks about the escrow situation are admirable, but you'll never convince one of them that there isn't an impending distribution just around the corner. For their own reasons, they must believe that the emperor is clothed.
Just sayin'
Here's The SCOOP And It's The Tell...
The bankruptcy is closed, the escrows have been removed from our brokerage accounts and the trust website (wmitrust.com) is history.
To me, the fundamental "tell" is that there is not one OFFICIAL word of any type of payout for WAMU escrow holders. No governing person or entity has released an iota if information about any type of forthcoming distribution nor is there any comment from any OFFICIAL source such as the trust or the bankruptcy court or Mr. Cooper or any newspaper, financial journal, etc. about any type of future distribution. There never has been. The whole premise was created by those with self-serving agendas.
The escrow holders are the legal and rightful shareholders of the original Washington Mutual stock. There is no need for any authoritative or governing body that has the "billions of dollars in their coffers" to be secretive about informing the escrow holders about a payout or the general public for that matter if a payout was actually imminent. There would be some type of announcement with specific details i.e. how much per share and when it will occur.
Stock dividends and any other "distributions" of publicly held stocks are routinely announced to the public. There is no need to be secretive about it if it was really going to happen especially in light of recent developments and 14 years after the bankruptcy and over a year since the bankruptcy was finalized. There isn't even an article about the escrows being removed last Friday.
If there was a forthcoming escrow payout on one of the largest bankruptcies in American history isn't it reasonable to expect that there would be some type of announcement or leak about it? But, there is only silence................well, at least from any official source.
Like in the case of the original GM shareholders. The money is gone.
It is illogical and impossible to believe that if there were even distribution of a penny per share to escrows in such a major case after 14 years of legal wrangling that it would not be front-page news of the Wall Street Journal, Forbes, Fortune, etc... Yet, there is nothing being reported. It is only the fantasy of those who cannot accept that the end has arrived and that the money is gone. They have to believe that the emperor is clothed.
COOP and the escrows are two separate matters regardless of what the spin is by some on this Board. A person can be an escrow holder and have zero shares of COOP stock and still receive a payout if it ever actually happened. Whether COOP shares are $1.00 or $100.00 would not determine if, when, or how much WAMU escrows would be paid. Escrow holders would have been paid before or regardless of whether there even was a relationship with COOP.
I don't understand how the faulty hypothesis of COOP determines whether the escrows get paid ever grew legs. COOP is COOP and WAMU escrows are WAMU escrows. That is when this really got murky.
The silence from those who really count (the governing entity) is deafening. Apparently, only the great OZ knows the real story. There's only one problem............many of us have pulled the curtain back and seen he's just plain wrong.
I'm reminded of the great Doobie Brothers song in this fiasco.
But what a fool believes he sees
No wise man has the power to reason away
What seems to be
Is always better than nothing
And nothing at all keeps sending him
A Distribution Is Still Forthcoming?
The escrows are erased and deemed worthless by the DTC. The following paragraph below was written on the wmitrust.com website in January 2020. Now, the website itself is gone.
We're led to believe that it's all good news and part of the plan and that now it's imminent that most of the escrow holders will be fabulously wealthy within the next few weeks and that the checks will soon be in the mail. I guess the "COOP Is The Tell" gang will keep it up at least through March 31.
What's more interesting is that there is absolutely no news about an impending distribution. Nothing in the WSJ or any other financial publication. Nor, of course, have the shareholders been informed by any source about this distribution nor how much per share will be paid out. Not one leak anywhere from anyone. Yet, the "COOP Is The Tell Gang" knows it to be true. Now, that's impressive.
While the Trust's affairs are being wound-down, the Trust will continue to maintain its website which can be found at www.wmitrust.com. Further, the Trust will continue to maintain the "Frequently Asked Questions" page on such website, including any updates thereto that may be deemed necessary or advisable by the Trust's management or administrators, as the case may be.
I do understand your plight and am sorry to hear that you've suffered such a major financial setback as a result of the WAMU bankruptcy.
Generational American corporations that have been around since the 19th and 20th centuries have been increasingly filing for bankruptcy over the past few decades and have particularly been doing it more frequently in the 21st century. WAMU was not alone.
One must be very careful because there are no "sure bet investments." A prime example is General Motors. Who would have ever conceived that GM would file for bankruptcy leaving common shareholders holding worthless shares? General Motors had been around since 1908 and was the largest automobile maker in the world for 77 years.
And that's been the case for investors of the old General Motors, which filed for Chapter 11 reorganization on June 8, 2009, less than a year after WAMU.
Common stockholders in the old General Motors were essentially wiped out, watching their shares morph into shares of Motors Liquidation. The common stock originally traded on the Pink Sheets but was later canceled.
Meanwhile, shares of the new GM, which went public in 2010 have held up reasonably well. Shares of GM were initially priced at $33 a share and closed yesterday at $48.83 a mere 37 cents less than COOP's closing price.
But, unfortunately for shareholders in the old GM, the relative safety of the new GM's stock is of no value to them. Shares of the old GM were canceled. Salt in the wound.
Many investors counted on GM always being a sure thing like you apparently did with WAMU.
Sears, Roebuck & Co. was an American staple and has been around since 1893 and yet they went bankrupt. Investors left holding shares of a company that files for bankruptcy protection are understandably bitter. And the hard feelings are especially hard to take when shares of the company that arises out of bankruptcy end up performing relatively well.
Think of the major airlines who were American aviation institutions for decades that no longer exist. TWA, Pan American, Eastern, Braniff, etc.
Lord & Taylor (founded in 1826), Borden Dairy Co., Remington Arms, F.W. Woolworth, Spiegel, S.S. Kresge, Federated Department Stores, American Motors, Montgomery Ward, J.C. Penney............the list goes on and on. Companies that were around "forever" are now gone or shells of their former selves.
Investors must learn from these situations and remember to never hold shares of an individual company's stock for decades or as a primary nest egg. Investors must bail out when shares decline 10% or more to avoid such a catastrophic loss.
If they choose to continue to stay in the game after that then they risk that the dice will come up snake eyes. There is no sure bet.
AZ:
Two simple questions:
1. Why, after 13 years, and especially considering all that has occurred since the bankruptcy closure, isn't there ever any solid, firm official announcement from the Court and/or any corporate entity, the SEC, and/or any other individual or agency about an impending distribution to the common escrows with a determined date for the payment?
2. Why must the stockholders continue to have to endlessly debate, discuss and speculate about something that, according to your research, has been conclusively decided and is imminent?
The silence from any governing authority is deafening and the only discussion about any and all payments due to escrow is on this Board.
"When ?" You Ask ?, The Returning Distributions, Held Outside of the Original WMI Holding Company, Will Begin When The Current "WMIH" BOD's Decide To "Update" The Corporate Structure, and Financially Acknowledge the "Entire Company" and ALL of the Functioning Subs', NOT merely NationStar LLC', being used as the "Registrant"
Based on your research, Mr. Cowboy, there are billions of dollars waiting to be distributed to all of the escrow holders. Yet, after 13 years, you nor anyone else knows if and when it will actually be distributed despite the endless and erroneous predictions. You always say that it's just a matter of time before we'll all be rolling in the dough.
If the "WMIH" BOD has the authority to release this money and since there are billions of dollars that would be distributed to all escrow holders which undoubtedly includes some of the BOD members and/or their friends, relatives, and associates then there is obviously some reason why they didn't execute this windfall long ago. These guys are all about making money for themselves. Yet, the facts clearly demonstrate that they are not motivated to do it. Why would they not immediately bring closure to this saga as quickly as possible and reap the financial rewards at the same time?
Here's a simple question to your simple reply above. What if the current "WMIH" BOD simply never does it?
Just Curious
When no distribution hits the accounts on March 19, don't you think the next day it's going to be quite entertaining to watch the numerous excuses, explanations, rationalizations, justifications, and the inevitable new date predictions? At least half a dozen people will post that March 19 was never their date. It seems like the first new date thereafter will be March 31 since it's the end of the first quarter. Possibly another one in April and certainly the end of the 2nd quarter. One in the summer and autumn would be nice to see too as we don't want to discriminate against any of the seasons. Based upon the history of this Board, it appears that we need approximately 5 more payout dates until the annual December 31 prediction is in place.
It's been a year since the bankruptcy closed. There were "concrete" predictions by the meticulous researchers that the escrow payout would be by the end of 2020. Many people on this Board bought into it, that is, until nothing happened. Now, the meticulous researchers moved the date back to the end of the first quarter of 2021. And, the same followers bought right back into that new date. And, when that date comes and goes without a payout, as sure as day follows night, there will be another date a few months out until it, too, ends up being EOY 2021. And, the beat goes on.
It is reasonable to believe that if there was going to be any type of imminent distribution from any source whatsoever, there would at least be some type of leak and/or official confirmation of said payout. This was one of the largest bankruptcies in history. So, any type of settlement from any and all sources to escrow holders after nearly 13 years would be MAJOR news in the financial world. A payout in the promised zillions of dollars might even make the newspaper or TV news.
Yet, strangely, there's not a peep.
Is that because there is no payout coming or is this past due enormous distribution just the world's greatest kept secret?
Since the escrow holders are the CUSIP's legitimate owners, why does any and all information about the predicted payout need to be kept so secret by the entity making the distribution? In other words, why don't they inform us of THEIR distribution date?
If dates based upon the meticulous researchers just come and go year after year in perpetuity without bearing fruit then I guess we all should believe that the predicted payout will come. After all, if there's no accountability and credibility is automatically bestowed despite their documented history of erroneous predictions then I guess the payout will eventually happen. Perhaps they should begin using Stardates.
Hope Springs Eternal!
ESCROWS WILL NOT BE PAID....EVER!
Despite the meticulous research and endless predictions by some people on this Board promising payouts by EOY 2020 and now onto the end of the First Quarter in 2021, it is not going to happen. Their research either overlooked, dismissed or ignored this article. Their research is based on the foundation of wishful thinking, fantasy, hoping and denial of reality sprinkled with a dash of attention-seeking. That's why, despite their meticulous research, these dates keep coming and going without any payout. If their research is so accurate then why do their own predictions never materialize?
There will be no payout ever. Here, once again, is all you need to know about future escrow payments. Focus especially on the 2nd paragraph.
SEATTLE, Jan. 9, 2020 /PRNewswire/ -- WMI Liquidating Trust (the "Liquidating Trust") (the "Trust"), formed pursuant to the confirmed Seventh Amended Joint Plan of Affiliated Debtors under Chapter 11 of the United States Bankruptcy Code (as modified, the "Plan") of Washington Mutual, Inc., today announced that, as previously disclosed, on or about January 10, 2020, it will initiate a final cash distribution (the "Distribution") of $39 million. The Distribution will be paid to holders of subordinated claims in Class 18 as contemplated by the Plan. After giving effect to the Distribution, members of Class 18 will have received a recovery of approximately 82% of the face amount of their allowed subordinated claims, inclusive of post-petition interest. The Distribution follows the entry by the United States Bankruptcy Court for the District of Delaware (the "Bankruptcy Court") of an order authorizing, among other things, the closing of the Debtors' Chapter 11 cases.
The foregoing notwithstanding, the so-called "Escrow Markers" or "Escrow CUSIPs" established by the Trust upon emergence from its Chapter 11 proceedings in March 2012 for purposes of facilitating the potential distribution of Reorganized WMI's common stock will continue to be maintained for the foreseeable future. As previously disclosed, however, former positions represented by such Escrow Markers or Escrow CUSIPs are not entitled to receive any distributions under the terms of the Plan and they do not, in and of themselves, represent an entitlement to any possible future distributions from the Trust, Reorganized WMI or the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (either in its corporate capacity or as the receiver for Washington Mutual Bank), as the case may be. As discussed above, no additional distributions of cash or equity will be made by the Trust subsequent to the Distribution, other than to one or more charities as contemplated by the Plan and Liquidating Trust Agreement.
Here is the link to the entire article which was published a year ago.
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/wmi-liquidating-trust-to-initiate-final-distribution-and-wind-down-of-operations-300984639.html
THERE IS NO ESCROW DISTRIBUTION IN 2020!
I own a lot of escrows and I can assure you that I would happily settle for $1.00 per share. I find it amazing that so many people on this Board actually believe there will be an escrow distribution by 12/31/20. Other than AZ's predictions and his fan club's sycophantic desire to hang on to his every word, there is no evidence of any such payoff from any credible source in the financial world. None whatsoever.
If, after 12 years, there were billions of dollars were coming to thousands of escrow holders of WAMU (the 2nd largest bankruptcy in American history) wouldn't there be some official indication of such a distribution which is now just 72 hours away? The escrow holders legitimately own their shares so why would any distribution not simply be formally announced? The bankruptcy has been closed for a year. Creditors are routinely notified of how much, if any, they'll be receiving from any settlement. Yet we hear nothing. What would be the motivation for keeping it secret?
The White House, Congress, the FBI and the CIA can't contain leaks, but somehow every single individual with knowledge of this mammoth payout in the banking, finance, and federal judiciary has been able to keep this impending distribution completely silent. Not a single clerk in any agency, firm or company has leaked it with only 3 days to go. Does that sound reasonable or promising?
AZ analyzes and predicts. His intentions are honorable and he believes his analysis to be accurate, but, as of this writing, reality indicates it is not. Just because the earth seems flat from where you’re standing doesn’t make it true. I believe in this situation, the wish is very much the father of the thought.
I am on record saying that there is no 2020 distribution for escrows! Not a single penny.
Either AZ is correct or I am. Just wait until C.O.B. Thursday and you'll know. Credibility is on the line.
I agree with your post.
Hope springs eternal and many on this board need to believe that there is a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow so no news is good news. One thing is certain, by 12/31, we'll be paid or we won't. And, if we're not, the usual suspects will have a new payout date and the game will continue. It's like the losing team in the championship game who cry "Just wait 'till next year!"
As I've posted before, this impending December payout has to be the best-kept secret in the financial world because there hasn't been a whisper about it by any official source.
Reality Check
If there was a distribution of even a penny coming to escrows after 12 years by the end of the year then why hasn't there been a single leak or even a hint from any credible OFFICIAL source of an imminent payout? There are only two weeks left in 2020. This upcoming payout has to be one of the best-kept secrets in the history of Wall Street.
FOOD FOR THOUGHT
On September 25, 2008, the FDIC took over the bank and sold it to JPMorgan Chase for $1.9 billion. The next day, Washington Mutual Inc., the bank's holding company, declared bankruptcy. It was the second-largest bankruptcy in history, after Lehman Brothers.
This has been litigated and micro-dissected by hundreds of people for over 12 years. Countless attorneys and others have been involved with this huge case. Enormous numbers of shareholders had invested billions of dollars into WAMU stock.
Doesn't it seem reasonable that if there was any type of imminent distribution of even a penny a share let alone the predicted dollars per share there would be at least one "leak" from an "anonymous source" or a law office or a former executive or a Wall St. speculator announcing it?
Wouldn't some attorney want to announce that money was coming back to these unfortunate investors just in time for Christmas so that these individuals could, in some way, take credit for all of their work on the investor's behalf?
The White House can't even control leaks about upcoming speeches, policy changes, national security issues, etc. Yet, not one person involved with the WAMU bankruptcy has leaked a single shred of hope that a distribution in any amount for escrows or preferred is imminent.
So, here we are in the waning days of 2020 and there is the same, complete utter silence from any legitimate source outside of this Board just as there has been during the previous 12 "Decembers."
The bankruptcy is closed. AZ continuously copies and pastes "court orders" supporting his position that a distribution will take place by December 31, 2020. I guess the court officials down to the various clerks who work there and all the associated attorneys and everyone in their orbit have truly been able to not utter a single word of this pending windfall that will make instant millionaires out of so many people. They are to be commended for their self-discipline and integrity.
Because, as of December 9, the silence is deafening.
Lots of people on this board have predicted that escrows will be paid in 2020. They have made their arguments for this prediction well-known to all.
In three weeks, everyone will know if these "wizards" have any credibility.
AZ Cowboy:
What is your prediction for the outside date when the FDIC closes the receivership and the "final completion of this mess" has arrived?
If you would prefer not to give a specific date then do you think we will have received the final escrow distribution no later than 1 year from now?
HRH
Question For AZ Cowboy
Like many others on this board, I have read your posts for many years now. I think you first appeared on this board circa 2012.
I would like to ask you a simple question and would like to receive a simple answer without all of the legal and historical details you typically include in your posts which are often confusing, at least, to me.
Based upon your years of research, knowledge, analysis, expertise, and intelligence regarding the WAMU/WMIH situation, you continuously post that you adamantly believe common escrows will eventually be paid and the PPS will be quite lucrative.
So many predicted payout dates have come and gone since WAMU filed for bankruptcy that it now seems laughable that anyone even buys into the "hope springs eternal" bill of goods anymore. But, many of us still do.
Simple Question: What is the absolute latest DATE you believe these escrow payments will be distributed?
I know what I own.
I would just like a simple answer stating your outside predicted date when the money will appear in our accounts.
xx/xx/20xx
Thank you.
HRH
In The Year 2525 If Man Is Still Alive Escrows Just Might Be Paid......
Perhaps
Possibly
Maybe
Conceivably
Perchance
Imaginably
Time for more popcorn and Milk Duds.
Escrow Distribution
After 11 years of countless predicted payoff dates that have come and gone without a penny being distributed there continue to remain three predictions for the escrow holders of which I am one.
1. Nothing for escrows
2. Nickels and dimes for escrows
3. $8.00-$24.00 (or more) per escrow marker
Since this debacle began, this board has hosted innumerable posts of "IMO" "IMHO" predictions for the final resolution for these markers. These opinions are often accompanied by quoting the bankruptcy case legal documents.
What's interesting is how so many intelligent and experienced investors have such a disparity of opinions after reading the identical documents begging the question: Is the glass half-full or half-empty?
Who among us ever would have predicted in 2008 that this matter wouldn't have been resolved by 2019? Few, if any.
It remains baffling that after 11 years of continuances and other delays, the judge hasn't told the attorneys that there will be no more continuances and inform them that the final arguments will be heard on a specific date and the court findings will be announced within a week of that final hearing. Case closed.
After all this time, it's unlikely the appeals court would find that the case was heard hastily and that all issues weren't addressed.
Many highly respected posters are now saying that the end is in sight and distribution is imminent while others continue to predict that this never-ending bankruptcy case could continue for several more years.
Which one is it?
And, some posters are beyond frustrated over the delays while others say they are fine with waiting years more if that's what it takes.
One thing I believe we all agree on is that, regardless of the final outcome, it's unconscionable that this case has taken this long to be resolved.
It's unfortunate that the Government didn't bail out WAMU as it did with General Motors. GM emerged from Chapter 11 protection after just 40 days as a brand new corporation. And, the rest is history.
These various predictions boil down to three things:
Pessimism
Optimism
Realism
The escrow recipe contains all three ingredients. What's unknown are the quantities.
I'm not really trying to make a point, but rather an observation.
In the final analysis, who knows what will happen? Your guess is as good as mine. (IMO, IMHO)
Why Is This Taking So Long?
GM filed for Chapter 11 in 2009 and was reorganized in a year. WAMU filed bankruptcy in 2008 and it still hasn't been settled. Nearly 11 years later and nobody apparently from the judge on down can give a confirmed date for closure. Maybe this date, maybe that date, maybe on the 12th of never. It's all just speculation and wishful thinking.
I hold a lot of escrows and am either going to make a lot or lose a lot of money. I'm way past ready for closure even if I lose it all. 11 years with no firm FINAL ruling regarding the distribution is simply preposterous. How can any court justify this length of time to finalize any case?
Like many of you, I've been in this thing for 9 years. Of course, like all investors, I want the PPS to take off like a rocket. However, I'm way past ready for closure.
It is simply preposterous that this debacle has gone on for nearly a decade. Chrysler, GM and many other major corporations went bankrupt and reorganized in a fraction of the time. Some folks lost their investments and some didn't, but at least they had closure.
I don't want to lose my investment any more than anybody else here, but if that's to be the case, so be it. Let this mother of a stock just have finality already so we can all move on. I guess the latest drop-dead date theory states nothing conclusive will happen either way for another 11 months. If then.
In the year 2525....................
Great! Thank you.
Question:
If I sell my WMIH shares, does that affect the WAMU escrow shares I hold? Until the escrows become valuable like everybody hopes, I just keep watching the years roll by with no money coming, but I'll hold onto the escrows until it's clear that this WAMU game is truly over.
In the meantime, after all these years I'm tired of the fantasy endless paydays that come and go without any money coming our way and I would rather divest myself of all of my WMIH shares which continue to decrease in value, but I won't do it if it affects my escrows.
Hope springs eternal has never been illustrated more than by this stock.
I sure hope you're right....
Thanks, Distro.
Yes, I just checked and I have 10,322 WAMU escrow shares in my account along with the 359 shares of WMIH.
8 years ago, I bought over 10,000 shares of WAMU which eventually became a little over 300 shares of WMIH. I guess that's better than losing it all so I'm grateful I ended up with something although it is only worth about 25% of my original investment. However, a 75% loss is better than a 100% loss.
I, like most of you, have monitored this board all these years and have endured countless predictions from so called "experts" along with endless speculation and have watched the latest projected "pay date" come and go more times than I can remember. "Just wait until......"
I've seen predictions of us being paid anywhere from $8.00-$100.00 per share with $24.00 per share being the most common number.
I've read the rants against the BOD, the judge, the attorneys, etc.
And, here we are today still trying to read the crystal ball. At the risk of sounding pessimistic, about the only thing I see that's changed over the years is the calendar.
Nobody knows what will happen or if it will happen as evidenced by the countless wrong predictions and the passage of all these years without any resolution.
It's all mostly based on wishful thinking and a desire to not accept that we've been screwed without much recourse or hope of recovering our investment. People don't like to admit defeat and will get quite defensive over the mere suggestion that it's a lost cause.
We're talking 8 years now. I don't think anyone can be realistically accused of "jumping to conclusions" or "rushing to judgment."
I keep holding on because the few hundred dollars I'd reap isn't needed at this time and, like a lottery ticket, buying just one at least gives you a chance for a big payoff. So, for now, the potential value of the lottery ticket is worth more to me than the actual value of it's cost.
It's true what they say:
Hope Springs Eternal
ING DIRECT ShareBuilder
I know the deadline to vote on the releases is Feb. 28. I have never had any message from ING (my broker) regarding ballots, voting, etc....nothing at all.
I plan on calling them first thing next week to discuss this as they are now closed until Monday. I have the ballot from the post by WithCatz if they are "clueless." Has anybody had any experience with ING and WAMUQ in the last 30 days regarding the ballots? Any suggestions on who to ask to speak with other than "Corporate Action?"
Thanks!!
Anybody think the commons will ever get to .50 a share?
More Delays!
As I've said many times before as recently as yesterday, this judge is in way over her head with this case and is not strong enough to take control of this proceeding. The attorneys are calling the shots and adding countless and unneccessary billable hours. Their profit train shows no signs of stopping while ours hasn't even left the station.
Although everything is open to speculation, simply based upon the 3+ years we've been languishing already, there is nothing to indicate she will settle this case anytime soon. We could be having this discussion a year from now for all we know. Who, in all honesty, would have thought 3 years ago that we still wouldn't have seen a resolution?
And, I'm not all that optimistic we're going to be seeing any money whenever the fat lady sings.
I do find it amusing when I read the posts month after month predicting a favorable settlement by the end of the day, before Monday, by the end of the month, at the next hearing, etc, etc, etc. Hope springs eternal has certainly been proven on this board.
I realize that this is a "gloom and doom" assessment, but I'm just not quite ready to put the rose colored glasses back on today.
It is simply amazing how long this judge continues to drag this debacle out. She seems to be unable to make a final decision, so she allows the tail to wag the dog. 3+ years! And, the lawyers are laughing all the way to the bank. She's way out of her league and nobody really can say for sure if and when we'll ever see any money.
No excitement because very few believe there won't be yet another continuance. This judge doesn't seem interested in actually bringing closure to this case or she would have set a final hearing date long ago instead of letting this drag on for over 3 years. No reason to think there won't be another delay.
The facts of the case were argued long ago. Both sides are just reiterating and she continues to permit it. She seems unable to take control of the hearing and simply set a date to announce her decision. It's embarrassing.
This entire situation is ridiculous and its length is reaching the ludicrous stage.
3+ years with no end in sight. A little testimony and more continuances. There is no reason whatsoever that the judge, if she wanted, could not have settled this case 2 years ago. 18 months ago, the PPS was nearly .40. Today, due to the constant delays, it is headed toward a nickel.
She needs to act like a judge. She runs the show which means the lawyers answer to her. They will milk this thing for as long as she permits it to happen.
Can you imagine a CEO taking this long in the private sector to decide on an issue?
She needs to get a spine, set a final hearing date and make a ruling to bring closure to this debacle.
How many years does it take to make a decision?
Monday, June 01, 2009
Nothing for GM Common Stockholders
To no one’s surprise, General Motors Corp. filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy on Monday. According to published reports, the largest U.S. automaker will issue new stock to the company’s retiree health care trust, the Voluntary Employees' Beneficiary Association (VEBA), totaling 17.5 percent of the equity in the new GM (and warrants to purchase another 2.5 percent). GM also has agreed to give the governments of Canada and Ontario a stake of about 12 percent. The U.S. Treasury and current bondholders will own around 60 percent and 10 percent, respectively. Add the equity shares up and it equals zero for existing common shareholders. Why is the stock selling for 75 cents a share? “Hope springs eternal in the human breast,” said the English poet Alexander Pope.
If it happened to GM stockholders, why will Washington Mutual stockholders fare any better?
Do you remember what the existing GM shareholders received in the settlement? And, what they got in the "new" GM? Zero..............their shares were worthless.
Unfortunately, the precedent has been set.
Long Odds Either Way...
Which odds are longer................seeing the PPS reach a dollar or winning the Powerball with a dollar ticket?