Must be a buy out or something, up 30% +

Any news on why the 20% drop??

thx Reena!

Thx Diesel!

Can you post the filing??
Thx!

That's correct Split, I just couldn't remember if it was 2019 or 2020...
But yes, I received that check and just remember having no idea where it came from, but after all the posts re: DIME payouts I realized that's where it came from.

For my DIMES they just sent a check in the mail. I didn't have to call anyone.
I think it was Spring of 2019, but maybe 2020?

Thx, Argus. Looking into HUTMF, looks very interesting!

$28.18, new all time high, nice move COOP!

Another posted on the other site:

After the Washington Mutual deal Dimon said, "Our eyes are not closed on this one ... Any liability related to the assets ... will come with us."

Steve Black, then co-head of investment banking at JPMorgan, said the bank "got something that has far more value than the price we paid."

https://www.delawareonline.com/story/opinion/columnists/ted-kaufman/1/01/01/ted-kaufman-lets-stop-the-pity-act-for-poor-jamie-dimon/3360879/

Az "~ The WMB Notes (Bonds) Do Not Have ESC Cusips, Nor, as Bonds', Do They Trade ~

... the WMB Bonds were able to be accumulated until March of 2016' ..."

And not to be argumentative but the bonds do still trade. Many have traded since 2016. I traded some as late as 2019.
You can see some of the trades on the Finra site:

JPM3706783
Description: WASHINGTON MUT BK FA CHATSWORTH CALIF GL
Coupon Rate: 5.403
Maturity Date: 01/15/2015
Execution
Date
Time
Settlement
Status
Quantity
Price
Yield
Remuneration
ATS
Modifier
2nd Modifier
Special
As-Of
Side
Reporting Party Type
Contra Party Type
2/28/2019
13:24:09
3/4/2019
Trade
1MM+
0.000
M
_
_
-
-
S
D
C
2/28/2019
10:47:56
3/4/2019
Trade
1MM+
0.000

Here are some trades in 2020:

JPM3706157
Description: WASHINGTON MUT BK FA CHATSWORTH CALIF GL
Coupon Rate: 5.650
Maturity Date: 08/15/2014
Execution
Date
Time
Settlement
Status
Quantity
Price
Yield
Remuneration
ATS
Modifier
2nd Modifier
Special
As-Of
Side
Reporting Party Type
Contra Party Type
3/24/2020
12:45:00
3/26/2020
Trade
25000
0.000
M
Z
_
-
-
B
D
C
2/6/2020
11:27:41
2/10/2020
Trade
300000
0.001
_
_
-
-
S
D
D
1/28/2020
08:23:46
1/30/2020
Trade
50000
0.010
Z
_
-
-
S
D
D
1/28/2020
08:23:46
1/30/2020
Trade
50000
0.010

More trades in 2020, one as recently as 9/15/20

JPM3668207
Description: WASHINGTON MUT BK FA CHATSWORTH CALIF GL
Coupon Rate: 5.950
Maturity Date: 05/20/2013
Execution
Date
Time
Settlement
Status
Quantity
Price
Yield
Remuneration
ATS
Modifier
2nd Modifier
Special
As-Of
Side
Reporting Party Type
Contra Party Type
9/15/2020
10:18:18
9/17/2020
Trade
1MM+
0.000
M
_
_
-
-
B
D
C
6/22/2020
12:59:05
6/24/2020
Trade
50000
0.010
Z
_
-
-
S
D
D
6/22/2020
12:59:05
6/24/2020
Trade
50000
0.010
N
Z
_
-
-
B
D
C
2/4/2020
15:05:03
2/6/2020
Trade
150000
0.001
Z
_
-
-
S
D
D
2/4/2020
15:05:03
2/6/2020
Trade
150000
0.001

"So, ... because the WMB Notes, move within a world of an offering and an acceptance' ... I will offer to buy all of your Fixed Income WMB Note Positions, since you believe they are worthless ... No Variables Please ...

I am already Finra Compliant and I Use A Direct Provider' ... you have my tele' ... all you will need to do is tell your broker that you are making the offering(s) available, and I will have my broker make the contact for the exchange and the money transfer' ... just let me know when' ... and a rough idea of how many WMB Fixed Income Notes you own' ... we can discuss the amount of notes, and the price privately' ..."

AZ

Az, thx for your offer. But I will hang tight w/my bonds. It was not easy to accumulate the amount I have, been holding these since 2008/2009. I never said they were worthless, but there are plenty of things I'd like to see happen to give me more confidence. Number one would be price movement/accumulation. Smart money doesn't leave billions on the table like this. I know the hedgies can't buy escrows, however these bonds are the only way to increase your position in WAMU. So if it was a "sure thing" then the hedgies would be snatching these things up to much higher prices.

One of the cusips I found was 93933WAD8 .9% 1/15/15
The symbol on FINRA site is JPM3706783 Finra shows the coupon being 5.403%,
Etrade shows the coupon as 6.00563. (the reason for the discrepancy in coupons is because it was a floating rate note and I guess it depends how/when you figured the last coupon or are you using a current rate even though in default).

So to buy 100k of these bonds at 1 cent on the dollar or 1% of par (same thing), would cost you $1,000. Good luck trying to get a broker make calls etc to try and find these for you for a maximum commission of $30.00.
(most a bond broker can make on a bond trade is 3% per FINRA rules)

Also...there are 7 Billion face of these bonds. If they pay off at par plus accrued, the total payoff could be $10-$12 Billion. So w/this much money to be made, why aren't the hedge funds (smart money) buying these? They only trade about every 3-4 mos. And they trade for fractions of a penny. So rough math...you could acquire the whole series of bonds for a couple million...why aren't they buying these bonds? Billions of upside left on the table?

It still doesn't make sense.

Unless we are the only ones that think there is upside in these bonds...hence almost no trading and sub penny prices.

I use Interactive Brokers, I have 6 different cusips of WMB Jr's. On all the descriptions (when I toggle over the bond in my portfolio) it says:
Washington Mutual Bank/Debt not acquired by JPM
This BD has had this in the description for years.
Anyone else w/Interactive brokers and these bonds can confirm this.
I'm, not being a "naysayer" , believe me....I have a sh_tload of these bonds and I will be very rich if they ever pay off, I'm just letting you know what I'm seeing.

The Finra site has had these bonds listed as a JPM symbol for years.

http://finra-markets.morningstar.com/BondCenter/Results.jsp?debtOrAssetClass=3%2C6&issuerName=washington+mut&traceOrCusipOrBloomberg=&state=&cusipOrFinraSymbol=&showResultsAs=B&spdsType=&treasuryOrAgencyType=&subProductType=&debtInstrumentType=&securityDescription=&industryGroup=&convertibleflag=&industrySubtype=&sourceOfPayment=&proceedsUse=&issuingAgency=&collateralOrAssetType=&couponType=&detailedCouponType=&couponRate=&interestFrequency=&interestType=&maturityDate=&moodysRating=&standardAndPoorsRating=&traceInvestmentGrade=&beginningOrNextCallDate=&poolNumber=&masterDealId=&trancheId=&tradeDate=&tradeYield=&tradePrice=&agency=&productDescription=&maturityCode=&settlementMonth=&productType=&amortizationType=&maturity=&coupon=&weightedAverageCoupon=&weightedAverageMaturity=&weightedAverageLoan=&averageLoanSize=&loanToValueRatio=&SubProductType=ABS&subProductAssetDescription=&rule144aindicator=&showAdvancedSearch=hide&postData=%7B%22Keywords%22%3A%5B%7B%22Name%22%3A%22debtOrAssetClass%22%2C%22Value%22%3A%223%2C6%22%7D%2C%7B%22Name%22%3A%22showResultsAs%22%2C%22Value%22%3A%22B%22%7D%2C%7B%22Name%22%3A%22issuerName%22%2C%22Value%22%3A%22washington%2520mut%22%7D%5D%7D&ticker=&startDate=&endDate=


Issuer Name
Symbol
Callable
Sub-Product Type
Coupon
Maturity
Moody's®
S&P
Price
Yield

WASHINGTON MUT BK FA CHATSWORTH CALIF GL
JPM3668207
Corporate Bond
5.950
05/20/2013
0.000

WASHINGTON MUT BK FA CHATSWORTH CALIF GL
JPM3668209
Corporate Bond
6.750
05/20/2036

WASHINGTON MUT BK FA CHATSWORTH CALIF GL
JPM3668407
Corporate Bond
5.550
06/16/2010
0.700

WASHINGTON MUT BK FA CHATSWORTH CALIF GL
JPM3668408
Corporate Bond
2.071
06/16/2010
0.600

WASHINGTON MUT BK FA CHATSWORTH CALIF GL
JPM3702633
Corporate Bond
5.500
01/15/2013
0.000

WASHINGTON MUT BK FA CHATSWORTH CALIF GL
JPM3705569
Corporate Bond
6.875
06/15/2011
1.200

WASHINGTON MUT BK FA CHATSWORTH CALIF GL
JPM3706157
Corporate Bond
5.650
08/15/2014
0.000

WASHINGTON MUT BK FA CHATSWORTH CALIF GL
JPM3706783
Corporate Bond
5.403
01/15/2015

WASHINGTON MUT BK FA CHATSWORTH CALIF GL
JPM3706806
Corporate Bond
5.125
01/15/2015
0.000

WASHINGTON MUT BK FA CHATSWORTH CALIF GL
JPM3750631
Corporate Bond
3.226
02/04/2011
0.930

WASHINGTON MUT BK FA CHATSWORTH CALIF GL
JPM3750632
Corporate Bond
3.283
05/01/2009
0.600

WASHINGTON MUT BK FA CHATSWORTH CALIF GL
JPM3750633
Corporate Bond
2.796
11/06/2009
0.600

WASHINGTON MUT BK FA CHATSWORTH CALIF GL
JPM3814473
Corporate Bond
3.230
05/20/2013

Up another 10% today! .20 bid offered at .209
Volume already at 108K. Avg daily volume up to 92K.
This thing is starting to move, wish we had some news!

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/11/business/hydrogen-fuel-california.html

I've e-mailed and called over the last 3-4 weeks. No return e-mails or calls. Very frustrating.

Interesting theories Andy, thanks for your insight.
What is your theory on cash returning to escrows in addition to actual COOP shares?
Any theory on timing?
THX, Pork

Hope you're right, been in HYEG since 2005!

Az & Board, nice to see ya'll here too. I've been in LEH for many years. Bought the LEH Jr bonds back in 2008 when I acquired most of my WAMU holdings. I am also in the process of acquiring the CT's. I've been following this board for some time and glad to see ya'll here.
Peace and good luck to all here.

I guess no one knows the reason for the huge increase in price lately?
I'll call the company. I used to speak regularly w/Ted Hollinger.
Is he still w/the company? I think he's pretty up there in years.

Thx for the reminder wwhatthe, many of these facts are forgotten through the years as time goes by. Every once in a while it is good to be reminded about facts of the case.
Like all the money A&M charged the estate for the past 8 years. And we've never been given a full accounting of what they charged us $500k per quarter for. They were counting something very large every quarter to bill that much.

Thx Tanj, very well thought out.
I agree on the "big first dividend followed up by many smaller future dividends".

Not trying to contradict anyone. I just have lots of experience in this field. I was a high yield/distressed bond trader for 18 years and was deeply involved in WMI/WMB for several years back in 2008-2012.
We traded millions of the P's, TPS, K's, UQ's and all flavors of the WMI and WMB bonds. Our main buyers were hedge funds and high net worth individuals. Sellers were the ins co's and mutual funds.

You didn't have to be an accredited investor to buy WMB bonds, anyone can go buy them at any point. The hard part is finding a broker that can "find" them and that can fill your order. Also...most brokers won't waste their time because the commissions are too small.
You can buy millions of them for several thousand bucks. I own a boatload of them and have since 2008-2010 when I accumulated them. I have many friends/family that have them too. I helped them buy them back in 2008-2010.
However, the TPS were 144A securities, so they were only approved for accredited investors. But like Hotmeat said, if you were approved by your broker as accredited then you could acquire those also. I did.
I received the same escrows from my TPS as I did from my P's.

I wonder if his escrows will be priced at zero, he returns cash back to all his investors (at todays valuations), escrows later receive huge payouts, he keeps 100% of all the upside??
I'm sure I'm not the only one thinking this...

Court over: here are my notes.

Kyle and Rosen and Walrath in session.
Kyle speaking why he needs redacted docs.
Walrath says “you’ve already been admonished “, “but go ahead and explain yourself “

Kyle explaining that there are huge chnks of documents that are missing.
Missing 651 pages, many dates too.

Kyle, “ what we need are documents that are not part of the public record”.
“Many documents are still under seal”

Kyle, “ there are tens of millions of claims that we have not included to the FDIC. There might be correspondence between FDIC and WMILT that we should see”

Rosen up: “ i’m totally unaware of any of these documents”


Rosen; “if Kyle wants these docs, he should go to FDIC. We are not the appropriate place to get these docs. Kyle is just trying to delay or extract settlement “.

Ralph Swenson from Weil Gotshal talking now; “entirety of pymt applications have been given to Kyle”

Kyle back up: “arguing why claims can be paid”.
Walrath says “denied”!
She cut him off!

“Letter asked for certain things, I’m denying all that”
Walrath still slapping him around


Rosen: “Kyle was asking for more time and 19th is fine w/me”
Walrath agreed and says “that’s all”
Adjourned

Good memory Lodas. I remember trading the junk bonds of Calpine. It was one of my biggest home runs ever.
They had some Jr bonds, don’t remember the coupons anymore, and they were trading in the mid-upper 20’s.
I started buying them for my biggest account/client. (I was a broker back then) The bonds were dropping and we kept buying them as bad news was coming out. All the way down to 8 cents on the dollar. (Probably about the same time as Falcone’s lawyers were grilling that guy)
That was the bottom.
Then news started getting better and the bonds started rallying back up hard.
When they got up to 80 we started to piece out of them, all the way up to 142 (which was par plus a lot of accrued!) and that price ended up being the top tick.
My client made over $30mm on that trade. And I did quite well to :)

Good post Board. Sums it up in a nice tidy Christmas bow ??

I wrote it down JB. Still putting my list together. Will be sending soon.

W3: yes, sure go ahead.

Will do Mordicai. I’m compiling a new list of questions.
Below are the questions I asked in the first letter.

1) When Washington Mutual Bank (WMB) was seized most/some/part of the assets were sold to JP Morgan (JPM). What exactly were those assets and what exactly was left UNSOLD that the FDIC is still administering? Is there a value that the FDIC can stipulate that will be returning to the estate to pay the remaining obligations to bondholders etc...?

2) Continued from above....when can we stakeholders expect these assets to be returned? We've been waiting a very long time.

3) When WMB was seized, Washington Mutual Inc. (WMI) filed for Ch. 11 bankruptcy. Were any WMI assets accidentally/improperly seized by the FDIC and if so, how much? And what is the plan to return them to the proper stakeholders?

4) With a seizure and sale of this size, why was there no itemization (3.1A) of exactly what Bank assets and business units were purchased by JPM as was provided for in the standard whole bank contract, but which, in WMB's case, was omitted and deemed a "scrivener's error"?

5) With many assets being discovered post-purchase, will JPM be required to pay for those assets in addition to its initial down payment of $1.88 billion?

6) If JPM is to pay more, when is this payment due? Wasn't this PA&A for 6yrs? Shouldn't it be legally finalized by now?

7) If the FDIC passed on any assets for safekeeping and /or servicing, when will these assets be identified and the BK finally be closed so the rightful owners can benefit from them?

8) Isn't the FDIC obligated to provide a detailed final accounting at the request of involved parties?

They have a new e-mail address called “truth & transparency “ it fits in w/their new motto.
They are promising more contact w/the public.
The guy that I’ve been conversing with actually worked at WAMU and now he’s w/FDIC. He is actually a pretty good guy anD has promised to answer any and all of my e-mails.
He says he’s “very familiar” w/the WAMU case.
If y’all would like to submit me a list of questions , I’ll be happy to email him again.
But I don’t want to be rude or confrontational, I’d like to keep friendly w/him.
And remember, he probably can’t say much re: WMI since he’s at FDIC and is only overseeing WMB receivership.

From the FDIC reply to me:

2) The Receivership did not accidently/improperly seize any assets of WMI.

3) As you noted in your request the Purchase and Assumption Agreement did not include Schedule 3.1a. The FDIC did reference the following on the WMB Receivership webpage the following:

“ATTENTION: The reference to "Schedule 3.1a" in Article III, Paragraph 3.1, (page 9) of the
WAMU P&A Agreement is a scrivener's error—there is no Schedule 3.1a”

The link to the WMB Receivership webpage is:

https://www.fdic.gov/bank/individual/failed/wamu.html


Given the immediate need to close WMB in September of 2008, the Receivership was unable to itemize assets, the Purchase and Assumption Agreement reflects the intent of the Receivership to sell everything to Chase except those items specifically excluded in the agreement. Consequently, the agreement did not require itemization to transfer assets and business lines that were not excluded.

4) The bid amount of $1,888,000,000 was not amended and no other funds were paid by Chase under the terms of the Purchase and Assumption Agreement.

5) The Purchase and Assumption Agreement with Chase was for 6 years and expired on September 25, 2014.

I did. But no useful info. Basically they said all was sold to JPM and nothing left.
I will send a follow-up. The employee seems helpful.

Here’s my math: if I have 1000 P’s and there’s $40mm left after paying the Piers.
$10bb gets you $1mm.
$1bb gets you $100,000.
$100mm gets you $10,000.
So $40mm gets you $4,000.

Good post Samurai. Well laid out thoughts and conclusions.
I am one of those that never owned Q’s. I only bought TPS and PQ’s.
I also bought WMB Jr’s because I felt that there was a good chance that money May flow to us via FDIC and bond holders would be paid before PQ’s et all.
So I am obviously rooting for 75/25 to hold up.