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To those who haven't been here for the whole bankruptcy saga. JPM did not find 30 billion dollars in Wamu. Contrary to Lodas, JPM did not legally get any assets other than the daily branch operations and customer base. The mortgage payment to the branches would get them half the servicing fee. The OTC audited Wamu enough in 2008 to say they were collateralized as owners of 28%+ to not be due for seizure by FDIC.
Back to the 30 Billion. JPM used the info of Project West to find the pick of the litter of mortgages or WMI Holdingst fully owned real estate and did illegal robosigning on them. O e specific apartment project in NYC had a value of 30 Billion and was OWNED by WMI. It is like a pickpocket saying hay look what I got. Visa shares = holding co. Mining = holding co.
28% of mortgages = holding co. Caymens trust = hding co. Etc. Etc. I am saying this to those I get to read obsessively lurking since 2008 is that they either were not here from the beginning or have selective dementia. These things were in bragged press release filing of JPM and court cases against them. I am not saying they did not steal all the assets. At thebankruptcy JPM had a value of 100 Billion. By June 2009 if was listed 300 and then up to 1 Trillion. The market was down still a year after that. Think of a lie, tell the the lie, repeat the lie and hopefully people call it a fact.
Long post, by see talk in 10 years.
BB
299 Billion divided by 4, divided by 1.2 Billion shares is $62 dollars a share. You need 16 million escrow commons to become a billionaire. If everyone made such a big deal about Willinghams share count. Either you are joking or have most every preferred share the insider traders didn't snatch up.
Thanks Clawmann,
I wish I saw this earlier. It is basically what I said and applies to all stock. The important portion means you have to decide when to apply your loss. It advises sooner. Mostly likely when KKR came on.
If you bought 100 shares at .25 = $25. conversion .034 gave you a rounded up 3.4 shares. At today's price you have $7.75 total. The Break even today is $7.75 Per share = $5.47 loss per share. IRS only limits personal losses at like $2500 on taxes. WMIH has a cost basis of zero and will be all capital gains, unless you didn't sell. Your article doesn't imply this isn't a good idea though by saying you should max your cost basis now and not wait for LT distributions.
Right here on WMIH above the message board is say first day of reemergence start of day .63, HOD 1.10 and end 1.00.
If these are a cost basis. I was watching L2 that day and I saw 1.10 down to .63 and on to .40 that week. Either way, my opinion is if you never sold than you know your buy price, minus conversion = per share price for WAMU. WMIH would either be factored in or seperately. If sold for a loss or whatever in the past. You would refer to the .63 number. I never sold, so it will be complicated even if a small amount was returned.
Some are already at the point of face. The unknown point whether this is over long term distribution to face+ or nothing until the end and boom distribution to all. The lack of information will lead to guessing on how it played out. face +75% or 75% which satisfies face. Face value is the point for preferred holders is it not?
Maybe someone can tell me if the past interest distributions would be against in lump sum payment. If your account shows a $100 per share one day and the court says case closed with no specifics on how it came about. If you are commons do you care about the process.
Sorry if this is confusing. I rather not have a drawn out process and conspiracy forever.
You guys are fast to jump on this. Out of the blue the capped commons get mentioned for the first time in over 4 years. What exactly would be the point of capping the last person paid. Makes no sense whatsoever. In a segmented distribution you follow the waterfall divided by 75/25-2.5. Those who are capped at face will eventually drop off from further distibutions and the final ones left get the remainder till case is closed.
A different case is a large lump sum. The division split most likely will probably satisfy face value for preferred, which by the way was never guaranteed if WAMU was still in business. They could have paid them back or refinanced debt. Thinking you are owed money beyond your investment in a bankruptcy is silly. Till then you get some interest distributions which is your right if available.
Commons and the released PIERS are currently speculative and can only hope for a large payout. I believe $10 was the hoped for face value, but are not in the preferred position anymore. Commons bashing by PIERS folk is pointless because they are tied together on the waterfall.
I like whatthe's post. We will see what pans out.
The only issue I have is: In homeownership the down payment is not actually equity, nor is implied appreciation of the comps or the neighborhood. If they sell, is possibly when they recoup this money. Everyone knows post-2008 that appreciation or even getting your money back is not a given in real estate. A smaller mortgage is the only thing a down payment does and ease the mind of the mortgage provider & servicer that the mortgagee has skin in the game.
That is not even remotely a new email discovery. It maybe new to him and that is fine. Everyone should research seperately.
There were several Dimon and Baire emails like this out in 2009. Most were stickied for years. Maybe lost when switched to WMIH.
Been a long time since I have posted. Like 4 years, but lurk almost daily. I have been at least 30% sure of recovery +/- the magical dates that came and went. I got a email from someone about Greenspan's recent ramblings before he goes off to "heaven".
If this article which is loaded with hundreds of interweaved facts is true. Our only hope is Judge Walrath forces this to a public close and payment.
The main article is from a Federal Reserve written comic book. you can find that at www.roadtoroota.com
The article the DD'ers on here would be interested in is about 2/3 down call Part 2 section under a cartoon. The address is.
https://www.scribd.com/doc/9421535/Collateral-Damage-Part-2-The-Subprime-Crisis-and-the-Terrorist-Attacks-on-September-11-2001-26122008
It gives full resumes on all the evil doers and the sources which caused banks like Wamu to afford 300 Billion to give out in loans.
I would not advise drinking while reading it or if you have depression problems. It is very scary. It is also impossible to be completely false. It is 10,000 times over scary for the world.
sorry this was long. GLTA
Vote no and don't opt out is the best option for voting?
What is the worst that can happen. Our currently doomed to be actually worthless stock vote wakes up the obviously corrupt judge that mediation can possibly be so lopsided that even a so called best litigation law firm gets suckered.
If you vote yes than you do so on faith in $1,000/hr. min. lawyers.
Faith in the regular world = religion
Faith in Wall St. = Shmuck
If they lock up your shares for the intended years you can't even sell for a loss. If they deem or cause it to be worthless and you owned your shares prior to I believe May 2010 your brokers are obligated to record the loss at purchase price and after that it is the average pps. Be aware of this if you are thinking of averaging down and you bought after that. This is all in assumption of the obvious doom we face or by a miracle (see above about the faith thing) it actually (and soon,) turns out to be a good deal.
Scottrade Corp. relations after a little looking found his email with a bold letter statement do not collect a fee, voting for reorg. only. They can do it over the phone on a generic voting form for you instead of the one mailed. I wouldn't though. Just stop in and get copies at your local office unless you can't make it in. The Corp. offices were in Colorado when transferred on the phone.
Scottrade tender offer. I Just spoke to Corporate Relations and they said this is a automatic email flaw that gets sent with reorg vote. No fee and no tender offer exists.
If we receive 1/28 of our shares at .03 it will have to shoot up to $13.50 to start to profit based on my purchase price. Quite a hurdle I would say with so many unknowns on valuation. A dream would be if current shareholders were offered to purchase this stock at the 3 cent price today in order to dollar cost average ourselves to even things out.
Thanks Gophilpgo for the tax help. It appears unfortunately that as soon as this gets defined as being worth 3 cents or whatever it will be and actual loss to me. Not being able to write it off if titled as a reorganization or whatever is much worse to me than the stock being sold day 1 = loss and 31 days later shares issued or bought for me =potential gain. The wash rule or whatever the tax name is may come into effect if this isn't worded right for us. Hopefully that is being looked at by SG.
Thanks. Is this an automatic thing your brokers do or will I have to get an acountant or lawyer to correct thing through a ammended return the year later?
A question for people with tax expertise. When the conversion occurs what will the date be on the stock? It is called a settlement so would selling be tax exempt? Is the effective date say Feb. which screws us on long term ownership status. The shares we own are cancelled and NewCo. issued does it come up as that days purchase. Sorry if these are dumb questions, hopefully the answers are smart. WithCats seems to know tax law - any help on this is appreciated if by an act of God we actually make a profit on this ordeal.
Post Traumatic Stock Disorder
For those of us that held the faith that if Willingham gets paid we get paid. The holding onto long term shares in the hopes that it would be considered differently. This gamble failed.
Whether Willingham and SG got paid it is not apparent now that it is only from this stock. Faith that a rabbit gets pulled out of a hat and we get one over on JPIG through some future score that Rosen overlooked is as it appears now unlikely. 3 years of waiting that the right thing would be done and JPIG would just be happy with getting to play with our money has turned to keeping our money.
Do we want to go down with the ship on faith or dollar cost averrage your shares and leave with a 3 year dusty tail between your legs. Still shellshocked from this piece of crap so sorry for ranting.
Page 96
41.2 Discharge and Release of Claims and Termination of Equity Interests:
This section has every hostile legal word probably ever thought up. Signing a deal with the devil has never been this cheap.
Except for the trees, many trees will die before this is over
Not sure if it is predictable or a bad thing. Notice the reorganized co. is moving from WA to Delaware
Thank you if that was a time correction. Been to Europe once and didn't really pay attention to the time difference exactly. Amsterdam specifically
A midnight posting to pacer is correct that is still today. Be aware of Fankfurt will be open. Good or bad news might hurt you if stop losses are set. They could short the wizz out of this thing if it says good or bad. The volume people talk about will be tonight possibly, which will make the first half hour on here go bat guava. Just a little experieced info for the not yet victimized by the Mfing Molesters.
Mary, In respect to your love/hate relationship with Vooodoo. The difference in traders/waterfall rescipients. Is comparing the difference between getting a waterfall of some reorganized molested piece of crap co., a couple bucks to 24+ 2 months from now if lucky or being on your computer when L2 runs 25-50-75-100 on a short squeeze.
I hope all longs (by my definition is all survivors of March, 2010) is that for your piece of mind and family trade is like a greedy crazy trader and go to confession for your trader vs. investor sins. Hell give it away, just get it.
Equity Committiee to Mr. Rosen. "Please tell your employee Mr. Kosturos - YOU ARE THE WEAKEST lINK -GOODBYE."
Good one CWG. apparently a fellow John Valby fan
Right on Gandalf. If Walrath changes anything Rosenbag says in this pos newsletter, then Sussman does need to come back fiercly.
On another note, notice how percentages were all modified up and Rosen is worrying about certain fees, interests rates (as inconsequential as he states kind of we'll take it or leave it.)
Is it not obvious to everyone now that equity is currently in the money. Not much, but definately some. The desperation of Rosen on his hurry up Mommy Walrath thing, shows that some big money claim against the estate is ready to get shot down. Cha Ching. Speculating of course, not necessarily a claim.
Mediation - check
No Changes to her opinion - Check
Need 2 more weeks-sure why not - check
Why because Rosen doesn't want it = good for us.
Catz, well said. I think even sticky post worthy as a reminder.
Cats, I agree with you on standards for major pecking order will not be breached. We don't know what the first requests are from the EC. It now has a ratio of preferred members on it. The judges orders advising satisfaction of the EC can only be speculated of what could result by the 6th. My guess is that they say they are at a stalemate or request more time. This whole case is about dragging it out. Why? Jpig is making money everyday off WAMU.
The debtors, preffered and us are not. You probably are better able than most to figure out that question. People are starting to talk about next years hearing dates and this pps as you can see is nosediving today. I am not buying more, but who is gaining by this type of talk?
Catz, The issue here is that the judge more or less put the EC in the main pecking order of satisfaction in mediation. We must get positive activity in mediation. Haircuts or whatever means or who ponies up what is for the final summary,where it lists who got paid when. With a computer it is like pressing enter. Mediation is something we only have to gain from or we appeal. The next step is to get this out of Delaware if quick positive results from mediation don't occur. In my experience, mediators are exactly like the movie Wedding Crashers. The judge picks drinking buddies to do it and in my oppinion if people were to dream of the ultimate job it would be Mediator. No accountability. They screw up and it goes to appeal and no harm to them. We (me and others) have won and lost in mediation when honestly the opposite should have happened.
Investing 101 does not hold up to the unique and possible BK future changing caused by the WAMU BK. I repect your posts. I just have no belief that the past applies at all in this case.
Radiumsoup, I get what you are saying about people owning both. I don't think anyone, as in zero people who own commons ever thought on paperwork that they would be paid last. My point is with the preferred bashers who were crying like little 2yr. olds saying "mine mine". Mediation will damage every thought of "I know what will happen because of the past practices or the law".
Mediation changes slam dunk things into "how the hell did that happen." The U's dream on their board and p's & K's can do it theirs. That is my point.
Let See what the HF's goal is: Piss off and repeatedly insult a long term federal judge and get 1. their asses wooped and Congress on notice of the shady deals effect on common shareholders. 2. They actually want this to drag out longer and go to court. Why? backroom deal promises? If Fdick and jpig have 54 Billion in an account somewhere from their claim. Maybe they are offerening some of it up to screw over piss-ant retail investors who dared take on Wall Street saviors who did all Americans a favor by taking 30 Billion tax dollars and being forced to hand it out in bonuses to retain like minded financial Gods. No matter how this scumbaggery goes the US is F'd.
Maybe a late year hurricane will just flush NYC and the Hamptons out to sea. On a weekday and a non-Jewish holiday either. How does Halloween sound, too late Oct. 7th good? Fair warning to the non-involved regular people.
Just venting.
MrchntDeth just in case you might not be aware, but this is the
wamUq board. Notice the U in the name. Feel free to spread your love and knowledge on the wampq board. You may have misstyped and had lead you to the problems you had tonight. Just saying. A wasted evening isn't bad if you had nothing to do anyway.
To the board: Before the denial gets over analyzed. Remember as far we know, Judge Walrath has not even seen the asset list yet. How can she comment on I don't think that litigation wouldn't change anything. What if JPIG is sitting on 50 Billion in cash from a vault. It is a 100 year old company for Christ sake or show they don't have it, either way that commentary is just as incompetant as Hochberg's bs report. Just saying. I am still long anyways. At least the lawyers will have jobs still - at least till they go to hell that is.
Today is a great day so far and news seems to be getting better. Just be aware that some of the vol. is coming from people who sold Nov. 1 for a loss and are buying back in to avoid the IRS washing machine rule.
I totally understand why people with quick trigger fingers sold in the first couple minutes. (I wish I was like that in past trades) Why Why Why, did people who after price stuck at 6 cents continued to sell through the whole day =100 Million. Some were even writing about begging the MM's to take their shares from them. Maybe the MM's have a conscience and they are like one of those Vegas dealers who say "are you SURE you want to do that?"
Everyone who thinks this is over should move on. This forum for doing DD and maybe a random joke or two. Psychiatrists and Priests get paid to hear whoa is me's. Selling today was the most assinine ignorant thing to do. The drop came before the bell and the price leveled out almost immediately. Sell today for 6 cent or tomorrow for 6 cents. Letting your emotions control your balls means you should not play BK stock and probably sticking to mutual funds. This isn't a direct insult to anyone specifically, but in tense moments like this morning this board and Y get flooded with "The Sky IS Falling" posts which help nobody -not even themselves.
The MM's are still doing their 500 share sells to make it look like momentum is still going. Stop selling now for Christ's sake.
Make them work for your money if you are going to sell. I am not and wish I could buy. No matter if this is real or not, it will bounce because the people who got in today want to make a 100% profit just like in March. Wait for that to sell if you want out.
someone just sold a half million shares even though the price keeps goig up. Some people must not deserve the money they have.
Ask yourself - Why didn't this go to $.01
A hypothetical conversation with Hochberg from the Jersey Boys
"Hey Jerky, if you you let us shake the tree down to a nickle to cover the shaort, we will settle with the dedicated (true believers) longs at the end of the day with the proceeds.
You get to keep your 3 million and all you have to do is write a report that pretty much doesn't say anything really good or really bad."
Just a thought - it didn'y go down to zero in March, in fact it went exactly to .088 twice. A coincidence or or a miracle?
It is definately possible that Bop or anyone else could be in possession of a smoking gun, but is the judge going to follow the law and let it be introduced or not. I would hope everything about this report was not a suprise and our legal team (i know rosebud is supposed to be) =Susman has a strong public and behind the scenes reponse to this.