Democracy starts with you, tag your it! ...Thom Hartman
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Well, WAAC has no activity to report for the first time in over a decade, which means there is nothing manage because principle has been repaid on $13B below the 10% threshold. No activity = cash and remaining assets moved onto the next shell.
Where have we heard $13B before? Oh yeah, Deutsche Bank as trustee managed $13B on behalf of legacy WMI.
DB lawsuit concludes, irons out details in CA probate approval, and within a month of probate exit.....WAAC ha no activity to report.
nice coincidence right?
Ultimately, I'm saying they cant steal it from us, because we are all tied together.........but they are choosing (or forced to choose) which piece is accessible first - the "equity" or the "asset"...... to work with first. .....
either the "equity" of legacy WMI.....or the "asset" of legacy WMI.
I wonder if the choice now/firstly, is the "equity" of legacy WMI being used first....and maybe there isnt really a choice yet, if mortgage assets are dually and triply pledged to multiple trusts, then the closer to 100% of the trusts we wind down thru refi, liquidation, etc, then closer we get to maybe free up the majority of the "assets" value of legacy WMI. And then we see returns from the "assets" of legacy WMI.
So for now, maybe we just have the "equity" of legacy WMI....the trusts monthly paid income certs due and payable to legacy WMI - this "equity" that WMIH can exploit now.....while we wait.....
I dont know, just thinking out loud..................
I've been wondering about this also. With regards to WMIH who owns the "equity", and legacy WMI who owns the "asset" value.......... I wonder if the answer lies in my analysis below. Just a brainstorm.
Wondering if those steering our ship found a way to control our legacy "asset" value.
With WMIH owning the "equity", can they control how that value is used? Since their "equity" values are directly and wholly dependent on the use and direction of our "asset" value pool...... in other words, is there a legal loophole that as long as there is unliquidated mortgage product remaining, the underlying trusts are nothing more than an incubator until 100% liquidation, with no power to self-determine until those who control the equity income have been satisfied?
Make any sense? Thinking WMI could no more control "Pledged" mortgage product sequestered in trusts for investors, than we can now. We (legacy WMI who released) have stepped into those old WMI shoes, and just wondering if our hedgie partners have found a way to bypass us (at least until trusts 100% liquidate) so they can play with our (all of us togethers) WMIH equity interests?
In the security racket, the same loan was often pledged multiple times over. So even though one trust could be paid off and the collateral loan released from the pledge.....it could still be encumbered due to being pledged to other trusts not yet liquidated.
I realize this is only addressing the "assets" themselves (liquidated or no), and not the monthly cert income produced by these trusts............ Could the cert income be the "equity" that WMIH controls (us and the hedgies, all together) and is going to use for the NSM merger and others? And are we who released, forced to wait until the hundreds of overlapping and pledged Trust assets, are finally unleashed ?
Liquidating Trust assets are not all assets. Liquidating Trust assets, are, "certain" assets.
Wow, Thx for that tidbit AZ. Going down another rabbit hole right now, but WAAC/WMMSC merger...that is something !
Remember:
Per the 2013 Department of Justice's Settlement Agreement with JPM (1 of 2 Settlement Agreements), JPM did NOT become successor in interest to:
1) Washington Mutual Bank[/b] = WAMU = WMB
2) WAAC
3) WMMSC
4) Long Beach
JPM could take the shell, but not the nut. That is safe harbor and legal isolation, in action.
Now take a look at WAAC last SEC 15-G filing on 2/12/18
Zero activity to report on what was originally $13B... How could $13B in mortgage assets have no activity to report, unless within the last 6 months, they are no longer with WAAC. Looking at WAAC now: https://www.bamsec.com/filing/92963817000833/2?cik=1317069
Think about it for a second:
Wasn't DB's lawsuit based on a blanket repurchase claim of $13B ?
Is it a coincidence that WAAC's total originated assets = $13B ?
Therefore DB is/was trustee of these specific trusts?
Now that DB's lawsuit is complete, and their claim is settled for <$3B and covered by the FDIC, is it a coincidence that now WAAC for the last 6 month period is now recently reporting "no activity" going forward on $13B in mortgage assets?
If WAAC had these $13B in assets under required SEC reporting 6-12 months ago, and is no longer reporting any activity in the last 6 months....IS THIS A SIGN these assets have been vacated from WAAC and moved towards management underneath the upcoming merger with Nationstar?
$13B in Mortgage assets dont stop SEC reporting for a 6 month period, unless there is nothing left in WAAC to report.......! !
no. Old WMI Preferreds, are also securitized assets in specific trusts with specific managing trustees.
There are hundreds of trusts, and each has a designated investor beneficiary. Whether it be backing the old WMI preferreds, or backing investors participation slips. Its not either/or.
Post Bankruptcy and non-LT assets after March 2012, are anything and everything protected by lawful Safe Harbor whose requirements of Legal Isolation and Off Balance Sheet Treatment, are designed to protect these cash and assets from bankruptcy creditors and FDIC receivership, for the benefit of the surviving estate owners.
This is everything in..securitization.. such as mortgage principle, mortgage interest, mortgage investor participation, mortgage principle liquidations from refinance/repayment/foreclosure..... The whole shebang is cleaved from the bankruptcy and receivership as if it never existed......but only temporarily until the veil of safe harbor protection is finally removed.
And what feeds these post March 2012, post bankruptcy cash and assets? It's not just coming from one place... and not just from one managing trustee....
Per the 2013 Dept. of Justice Settlement Agreement (1 of 2 Settlement Agreements) with JPM, JPM.....DID NOT.....become successor in interest to Washington Mutual Bank, WAAC, WMMSC, or Long Beach.
Securitization principle, interest, investor participation slips, liquidations, etc. originally generated by WMB, WAAC, WMMSC, and Long Beach, (trustee managed by DB, USBank, LaSalle, BofA, etc.) were those assets that "could be pursued later" by the surviving estate once safe harbor protections were no longer needed or required. The surviving estate cash/assets of WMI/WMIIC POST -March 2012, is absolutely different than cash/assets of the surviving estate PRE-March 2012
"as of March 19, 2012 (the “Effective Date”)" is a huge clarifying line in the sand, between what is - or isnt the LT's to distribute.
The LT's assets comprise only those as of March 2012. Any cash, assets, mortgages, servicing, etc......anything not part of the Bankruptcies #1 (WMIIC) and #2 (WMI) pursued beyond March 19 2012.....is not the LT's to distribute.
Pretty clear to me!
page 38 regarding NOLs
"WMIH and Nationstar believe that WMIH will have net operating loss carryforwards for U.S. federal income tax purposes of approximately $6 billion as of December 31, 2017.
The pro forma adjustments reflected in the unaudited condensed combined balance sheet as of December 31, 2017 included in this joint proxy statement/prospectus include a $1.05 billion release of the valuation allowance attributable to this deferred tax asset."
How can there be a $1B release of NOLs to use up? Is this a reflection of income presently unknown, soon to come in?
Seems like WMIH has less than 90 days to fess up regarding trust values before NSM shareholders vote. Otherwise how do the NSM shareholders even know what they are voting on. ?!? To get bought out by a company worth seemingly nothing? I makes no sense.
We must be on the cusp of new news.
That is it in a nutshell, isnt it!
Nice Find AZ! Must be another merger in this story after Nationstar
Wow! killer DD AZ! Thanks.
Simplified: The 'Washington Mutual financial institution' is 3 things - A,B,C.
1) The bankruptcy creditors fought over specific assets in A.
2) The receivership creditors fought over specific assets in B.
3) And the FDIC kept specific separate assets off balance sheet in C - in safe harbor pending ultimate reconciliation of A and B. (trust assets)
In receivership, assets C are designed to backstop potential losses over assets in A &B. The residuals of ABC, in part or in whole, go to those who released.
I believe we're talking about 2 different $6 Billion. What I'm talking about is: "Trading Assets" income
Value for just the strip and residual certificate securitizations
"from WMI 2007 10-k...pg 5
" For other retained interests in securitization activities (such as interest-only strips and residual interests in mortgage and credit card securitizations), the discounted cash flow model used in estimating fair value utilizes projections of expected cash flows that are greatly influenced by expected prepayment speeds and, in some cases, expected net credit losses or finance charges related to the securitized assets. Key economic assumptions and the sensitivity of retained interests fair value to immediate changes in those assumptions are described in Note 7 to the Consolidated Financial Statements – "Securitizations." Changes in those and other assumptions used could have a significant effect on the valuation of these retained interests. Changes in the value of other retained interests in securitization activities are reported in the Consolidated Statements of Income under the noninterest income caption "Loss on trading assets" and in the Consolidated Statements of Financial Condition as "Trading assets."
WMI consolidated states it posts the income value from securities under Trading Assets in the Consolidated Statements of Financial Condition. So:
2007 WMI 10-K
Trading Assets:
2007 $4.5 Billion income generated
2006 $7.8 Billion income generated
2005 $7.2 Billion income generated.
Kerry Killenger testified and we know losses were not that bad in 2008. Additionally what DB settled for in damages as trustee, is minute compared to the assets they managed.
If 2008 is the bottom and a slow recovery from there......to now 2016......could one assume an average of even $6B per year + interest. That's $60B + 10 years interest.....AND THIS IS JUST CERT INCOME ( 1) above).
2) and 3) above.......There is still value in liquid and illiquid mortgage assets that were pledged or lent to the securitizations, once that yoke is run-off over time per each prospectus (nearly done now). And eventually we should see something reflective of that.
What's interesting about run-off mode is that everything was flash frozen in safe harbor and legal isolation. A performing institution would be continuously reinvesting mortgage liquidation cash into funding new loans......but when musical chairs stops in receivership/bankruptcy. .....the CASH piles up and can't be reinvested by the parent. It just collects like a thousand raindrops in a bucket. 10 years of accumulations will be a lot more, than a snapshot in time, pre 2008 imo.
[/quote]
Simple concept.
Your tracking markers, are ownership 'shares' of -- the legacy WMI entity that holds the actual certificates.
Anybody invested in any stock should understand the concept. It is owning stock in a company, who owns stock or bonds in other companies.
Have you heard of Berkshire Hathaway? Shareholders of BKRB own stock in Berkshire who owns the stock and investments of multiple other entities.
Releases granted you 2 things: If you released you should see both in your brokerage account.
1) WMIH shares
2) tracking markers. different marker numbers, to identify with the different flavor of old stock you released. P, K, and U all have different tracking markers.
* The differences between tracking markers are reflected in your brokerage account. P and K tracking markers are held in "Bonds/Fixed Income" U tracking markers are held in "Cash/Stocks"
There is a line item in pre-bk WMi’s 10-ks, specifically illustrating income from its securitization participation. From 2004-2007 WMI averaged about $6B annually from cert participation.
1) $6B x (last 10 years accumulating) = $60B + annually compounding interest......has accumulated.
+
2) accumulation of liquidation proceeds of the loan principle that created $6B annually in cert participation
The other Trustees haven’t been wrapped up in putback litigation like DB was. And what little was, was resolved long before the DB case.
As far as I can tell there isnt much left to keep safe harbor in place. But maybe so, I’m not a fly on the wall. But if it’s not over, it’s darn close
haha, well speak of the devil... so it is. I can reply for the first time.
Thx!
Peace Brother! No hard feelings ever.
yes, Me also. those represent your 'participation interest percentage' in whatever legacy WMI entity owned the certs interests in.
Tracking markers are exactly like owning stock in a company, who owns securitization certificates.
lol, your tracking markers, if you have any, denote your percentage of interest in the actual original legacy WMI certificate holder, who actually receives the notice from the trustees DB, USBANK, LaSalle, Bank of America, etc. Hundreds and hundreds of certs... hundreds and hundreds of notices.....Billions and Billions of dollars sitting and accumulating since 2008....
As the legacy WMI certificate holder entity gets paid, and you released for your share of that entity and all other legacy entities (from this middle man in a sense) then you/we/who released gets paid.
When you buy scalped tickets to a game, or concert, they dont necessarily have your name on them, just the actual seasons ticket holder.........yet you still get in the game dont you?
Hope you got in the game
I'm running out of posts if at some point i dont respond.
LT assets, represented by LTIs = pull from different assets, than tracking markers from old P,K, and U. It's like having 4 beers on tap. Each one pulls from a different keg. And if you didn't release, you aint getting served from any of them !
So while the Piers pint is on a very slow pour out of Tap 1 right now - and the line is getting longer for those wanted a taste, meanwhile as we've seen this week.....DB, USBANK, LASalle, Bank of America....as TRUSTEE of hundreds of individual securitized trusts, are getting ready to pour pints from the other 3 Taps, for those who released P, K, U.
Belly up to the bar, if you can..
Maybe, but I doubt it, there will be a few bucks left over for LTI interests, after the lawyers and employees duke it out for the next 3 years, as well as Mike Willingham and Douglas Southard's salaries and a few others continue to milk it out......
What fed income to, or backed up, different flavors of old WMI? answer: different groupings of securitized trusts. Yes the old shares were canceled, as was 'old WMI'. But, but, but..... the hundreds of securitized asset trusts that fed flavors of old WMI, the garden of eden, still remained. Safe harbor, legally isolated, off balance sheet - as if invisible - but quietly collecting ~ $6b annually since 2008.
IMO, That is the reason your P and K tracking markers reside in your brokerage, in separate categories from your U/commons. Preferreds in Bonds/Fixed Income.........and U/Commons in Cash/Trading. The original Trusts backing old preferred needed new tracking markers. The original Trusts NOT backing up preferreds, belonged to Commons the ultimate owner of old WMI - and thus different new tracking markers denote these separate interests in the bulk of the remaining trusts. Otherwise there would be just one tracking marker series for everything if it was a shared pot between preferred and commons, but its not. The only shared pot (75/25) is specifically listed LT assets, and these are not them.
Everyone who released whatever flavor will do very well, just some got tricked by message board hucksters into trading out of commons at the last second, meanwhile, the hucksters were buying it up by the millions at the 11th hour before release opportunities expired --- remember those trades?
The BK court never canceled prospectus' of hundreds of those legally isolated securitized trusts in Delaware. The old tracking markers if you will, or stock symbols denoting equity ownership, were canceled. New tracking markers are not WMIH (reincarnated WMI) and were not set up for WMIH benefit. Tracking Markers were set up for legacy WMI interests that would be retrieved at some later date. Old Preferreds are New Preferred tracking markers. Old Commons/U are now New Common/U tracking markers. The annually generating money since Sept, 2008 still reconciles with where it was designated to go -- to benefit legacy preferred interests, or benefit the legacy ultimate corporate umbrella (commons).
MB propaganda has been from day 1 to screw retail into dimes, piers, switching from commons to preferred, and every other limited return they could pump. Meanwhile they load up mainly on old UQs. Remember the millions of Uqs bought in the last seconds of the BK before re-org? Bait-n-switch. Anybody who released for tracking markers will do great, its just that some wanted many here to get as little as possible. They have been covering their tracks vehemently since 2012, to avoid tremendous liability.
Walrath and her bankruptcy court, and the FDIC receiver have ZERO ability to kill the securitized trusts in safe harbor. To do so would be piercing the corporate veil thousands of times over.
These assets essentially do an end run around the bk/receiver creditor process. These are not assets for BK or Receiver creditors to steal, because they belong to 3rd party investors. It just so happens that legacy WMI is one portion of the 3rd party investors. It's like using a goal post in the end zone as a screen to prevent the defense tackling you. Perfectly legal, and brilliant. Its what every single bank in America in the securitization racket does. These assets can be retrieved at a later date as Rosen spoke about.
I know we have disagreed on this for some time, and I mean no disrespect to anyone except the clowns who perpetuate this fustercluck here every day.
He splits hairs of truth to make things appear bleak, and support the investment narrative he publicly chose or 'appeared' to follow years ago.
FACT) IS your or my personal name on the trust certificates DB is obligated to pay, = NO
FACT) IS your or my personal name securing a % shareholding interest in the legacy WMI entity who's name IS ON the hundreds of participation certificates managed by trustees DB, BofA, LaSalle, USBANK, etc. = YES 1000%
As referenced by your brokerage tracking markers. Your tracking markers denote which securitization trust assets, you own a participation % interest in.
P and K receive income from Trusts 'ABC' for example. Commons/U receive income from Trusts 'DEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ' for example.
the truth hurts some, it really does.
Tracking Markers do include loan principle interests in any liquidations from refinance, repayment, or fire-sale foreclosures. WMI's 10-K 2007 reports $240B in LOANS HELD IN PORTFOLIO. Why are there loans held in portfolio which WMI and every single bank in the securitization racket held?
Because LOANS HELD IN PORTFOLIO are loans held for investment. These are the loans PLEDGED for the life of hundreds of securitization trusts. Each legally independent. Each protected by its own corporate veil.
Safe Harbor=Legal Isolation=Off Balance Sheet Treatment of everything in Securitizations. IF you no longer have $240B of HELD IN PORTFOLIO, there is no more securitization and hundreds of legally independent securitization trusts are in default. Guaranteed 110%, these trusts have ALL PERFORMED as designed since 2008 and continue to do so.
NOBODY (WMI, JPM, FDIC, your gramma, or T-rump) can give $240B in loans away, because they are legally PLEDGED and isolated to individual trusts for the purposes of a specific securitization, for a specific time frame.
Everything is frozen ice cubes in safe harbor. The loan principle, the monthly income strips, the individual independent Special Purpose Trust housing the 'PLEDGED' (lent, leased, not sold) assets, and the managing Trustee ability to disperse the cash and assets that have accumulated for 10 years while overseeing hundreds of these Special Purpose trusts in Delaware owned by legacy WMI.
Safe Harbor is designed to protect all links in the securitization chain from : bankruptcy creditors and receivership creditors. Remove a link in this chain, there is no more security - and a litigation morass to end all litigation morasses.
I'm guessing Goldie's (known as the fine purveyors of "sacks of sh&*") are big time investors in both P Preferred and WMB bonds.
Goldies hyped up and sold their homemade organic S.O.S. securities (sacks of sh$%$^) to everyone (and then shorted them to oblivion in the same breath), but invested heavily in WMI's higher quality certificates.
Like any weasel, Goldies was simultaneously killing and eating both the chicken and the egg.
I think what AZ is alluding to if your on the positive side of Goldies securitization gambles, you, we, etc are going to do quite well.
Read up on why safe harbor exists and the need for legal isolation of assets in BK and Receivership - and why these assets need to be preserved (ice cubes) for the original investor(s) who purchased participation slips.
safe harbor = legal isolation = off balance sheet treatment = invisible to bankruptcy courts and creditors and FDIC receiver creditors
Remove all threats to investors protected under the umbrella of 'safe harbor' over securitization principle and interest, (like the GLOBIC/DB/FDIC/JPM Settlement Agreement) and then the legal isolation and safe harbor protections will no longer be neccessary.
They could actually be dissipating (or dissipated) now. An analysis of the Trustee's like DB, Bank of America, LaSalle, or USBANK... who manage these trusts legally isolated since Sept 2008, would answer those questions.
There is an eventual end to safe harbor, and the litigation that initially triggered it. Once melted, investor participation income can be passed thru to each investor participant based on their individual tracking marker holdings as shown by their brokerage.
I'm 100% long. I'm not a trader. I dont really care about the price as I'm not here for daily income. WMIH is manipulating PPS for reasons underwritten by the Embedded Derivative feature AZ has been keen to explain. I've seen plenty of trading lemming leaps since 2008, and not gonna get caught up in games.
I know what I own, and I'm really here mostly for legacy tracking marker interests. When those start to flow, I'm outta here.
That could very well be. I'd love it to be true, and there is a lot pointing to that truth.
It was also just pointed out to me by a friend, that NationStar's info says it is both a:
1) Servicer
2) Loan Originator
So even if WMIH didn't have a charter to originate loans, it sounds like Nationwide or one of its subs can.
Sounds like new WMI is heading back in business, to do what it always did best.
I'm not putting numbers out there, I'm more a process guy. I know that the numbers will follow later. WMI was massive, and 10 years of accululated compounding interest and 'organic' principle liquidations will make for a HLCE as they say
Not guessing with this overly manipulated stock
Registered Agent for WMIH's Wand Merger Sub entities is MAPLES FIDUCIARY SERVICES, which has offices around the world.
WMIH's WAND MERGER registered agent is the Delaware office.
"Delaware Investment Funds & Structured Finance Vehicles
Established in 2011, Maples Fiduciary Services (Delaware) Inc. provides independent governance services (directors, general partner and member manager), accounting services, registered agency and administration services to investment funds and asset finance vehicles."
Nationstar is a non-bank servicer, like WMI was a non-bank holding company. Unlike JPM a bank holding company.
I think WMIH' next move will need to be a bank to scale up.
We've now got the:
1) Reinsurer,
2) Servicer
3) loan portfolio (although shrinking fast daily since 2008, thru 'organic' liquidation).
NEED a:
4) BANK. Originate and securitize more loans. Back in the BIZ from whence we came - and we all become fat cats
WMIH's BOD and representative interests probably wouldnt like shareholder longs drunk and stuffed with tracking marker cash leafing out of their home spun pockets, buying up so much cheap WMIH shares all these past 6 years, that:
a) retail ends up with the controlling interests (its already a slap in their face we even survived)
b) retail 'greed' screws up ownership and NOL ratios ( if NOLs are even really an issue -red herring))
I really am happy about the Nationstar news, lol...its quite a catch!......and WMIH is a great snack - now, but it's not the 7 course meal my tracking markers are after.
* Piers are dependent on the LT to execute and commence the actions neccessary to receive their dues. The LT takes their cut/salary along the way. I dont think it appears the LT or their attorneys are in any hurry. Contact Douglas Southard or Mike Willingham with the LT if you have an questions.
However:
*Class 19 and Class 22 are dependent on the Trustees managing and distributing the monthly participation income from the supporting securitizations backing Class 19 and 22, each with individual and separate securitizations income. Class 19 and Class 22 are dependent on independent 3rd Party trustees like Deutche Bank, Bank of America, LaSalle, etc, (who are legally liable after safe harbor is lifted) to distribute monthly accumulated income and interest to each Class 19 and Class 22 tracking marker holders. Your tracking marker and number of shares in it, reflect your shared portion of those legacy income returning. These tracking markers are a direct link from Trustee (DB) and your brokerage. WMIH and the LT....DO NOT.....have any input or power over these Trustee (Deutsche Bank) distributions.
Contact your local trustee like DB, Bank of America, LaSalle, etc., depending on whom manages whichever thousands up legally independent securitization trusts.
I believe Class 17 now has JPM cusips. JPM is holding(responsible for) that bag, ......of gold......for those lucky enough to have bought
8)
Tracking Marker ('escrow') dollars come from: whatever securitized trusts your tracking marker 'seeds', are planted in.
Each tracking marker seed, has its own pool of trusts to milk. Class 19 feeds off trusts 'ABC for example', and Class 22 feeds off 'DEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ',
There are 10 years since 2008 - and counting - of accumulated participation income in:
1) Interest income from monthly payments on mortgages/helocs/credit cards/leases/student loans/commercial loans, etc. You name it, whatever WMI securitized.
2) the principle such securitizations were based on (PLEDGED, not sold, in time limited securitization servitude). Principal becomes liquidated thru refinance, repayment, fire-sale foreclosure liquidation etc. This PILE of cash, has also been quietly aggregating since 2008.
3) compounding interest on 1) & 2) above since 2008 and going forward.
WMIH progress is the moving screen play, to simultaneously hide tracking marker repayment, imo. WMIH and the LT has no ability to take tracking marker incomes from you, and your markers are all set up between your brokers and DTC. When these trusts that owe our tracking markers money, are free of safe harbor restrictions, then money will flow to markers down these side channels without interference from WMIH or the LT - like a triple bypass is to a heart attack. The main (propaganda) vein is not needed nor part of the tracking marker equation.