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" The court takes up the defendants request for new counsel, ex parte, and out of the presence of the government and the public. The court denies defendants request. Mr. Moss will remain as court-appointed counsel."
Does that mean the judge said he can't change lawyers and has to stick with the public defender? If so, would they still need the LDF then?
You can tell a lot by the people a person admires. If he thinks Owen is a good business man, and he has a similar business ethic and vision, Petro is NOT moving forward.
pretty much.
That's why it's relevant to ask about his background. What type of experience does he have? Has he ever been a CEO before? Was he able to take his previous company forward? Or did he drive it into the ground? Did he embezzle funds? Did he make some bad decisions? What is his business philosophy? As a "shareholder" these are questions you should be asking. When investing in "normal" companies, besides the prospectus and all of that, this would be something important to consider. Putting a bad choice in that spot could devalue a company. Though, in this case, I suppose it really can't get much worse. Or, can it?
Actually, considering what's going on right now, this guy's background is indeed a valid question. I would like to know if he's a legitimate business man with an ethical background. All legitimate companies have that information readily available. Knowing who's at the helm of the ship is very important in the business world.
If memory serves from government class in my old school days, I believe an indictment is handed down when there is enough tangible evidence in a case to charge a person. Apparently, there has been enough stuff that people can see and hold in their hands proving that there is some funny business going on.
Where's your stuff proving that he's telling the truth??
Quoting from the email:
"If you would like to contribute to the legal fees and expense of defending our company and its founder we are currently accepting donations. The funds received will be used for the sole purpose of providing legal funds for our company and its founder."
That sounds to me like it's for defending OH.
Besides the fact that I think it's just shameless for "The Company" (whatever label they have slapped on it, after all the money that has filtered through their hands, whether it adds up or not, whether you believe the affidavit or not or the fact that they were caught red handed and admitted under sworn oath the things they were doing,) to again "pass the hat" to cover OH's legal expenses, I believe NoDummy has the shareholder's best interests in mind by questioning the source of this so-called "non-profit" legal fund. First of all, there are some pretty strict government guidelines in place now that must be followed to be able to Legally make that claim. You cannot just set up a corporation and call it non-profit and not register or file for non-profit status with the government. I hope whoever started this "corporation" filed for 501 c 3 or whichever status, and also has their paperwork in order, and their tax-id and a good attorney and accountant. That for once it was done right and according to the law.
Seriously and not to be a jerk, I am sure that it's quite possible that maybe there are some people that really believe and had good intent to set it up. I just hope they did their homework, because, if not, because of what this is supposedly related to and "says" it's going to be used for, I'm quite sure the Feds will want to talk to them too.
Honestly, my understanding is that something like this legal defense fund is quite illegal. While some would disagree with this analogy, I compare this to Madoff. What if Madoff after all the funds he bilked, had someone turn around and send these same people an email asking for funds to help pay for his defense? I know, I know, you guys are going to say that Owen's charges haven't been proven and blah blah, but still....
I wonder if anyone made disparaging comments about the affidavit in Madoff's case because they still believed and thought he should have his day in court......
What I meant about investing was not those that already have shares. Me being one of them. I was talking about once they transition in the new leadership. It's already gone soooo wrong, that I can't see anyone really having any confidence from this point on to invest as a new investor in that venture.
The structuring charges have already been proven. Admitted to by Owen himself. I don't know what kind of evidence they could possibly provide at this point to counter what came out of the horse's mouth.
As far as listening to Chozan, his record doesn't really show him to be a trustworthy source either. I sure hope Owen didn't choose him as the new CEO.
When you put it that way, I suppose not. But the new leadership is in for a big uphill battle getting things back on track, if it's even possible.
Bravo,
you have to admit though, these are some pretty darn big and plentiful straws. He's provided SO much evidence of wrongdoing. I really wanted to believe too, but, geez, after a while, I just couldn't anymore and then well, the affidavit, and this is not some made up garbage, confirmed my concerns.
At this point, it actually seems like one would have to grasp at straws to support OH's story at this point. There just is no evidence to show that he has been aboveboard and honest. If there is, please, please someone come forward with it.
And, seriously, they stamped it on the bottom of an email begging for money. Obviously they would have to beg for more to turn around and sue you for sharing it. LMAO.
Truth be told, and maybe I'm a wimp, but I saw that too and was too scared to post my copy of that email here. I was totally appalled though that they would even do that, after everything that's happened.
AZGirl,
I am very curious, you mentioned that from what you have gleaned, Petro will move forward as a company.
Just where did you "glean" that info from? OH? Everyone, with any legal sense and authority, who have examined the evidence and taken the SWORN statements from OH and his cronies, have said it is not. They can switch leadership and all of that, but, pretty much at this point, who would invest in such a scandal-ridden venture? No one with any common or business sense or that can read. IMO.
speaking of big brass ones...
I got a lovely email from the "People's Company Legal Defense Fund" asking for donations to cover their legal expenses.
nice.
I'm thinking of a lot of choice cuss words right now.
That is not correct Bravo.
a lot of people, like me, do have shares. My mom gave them to me. I'm mad because my mom believed and was ripped off.
You guys keep saying that..
what freaking DOCUMENTATION????? WHERE IS IT?? That's what we keep asking for. No one can seem to produce this "documentation" showing the assets are real and in place.
In fact the more people dig, the more documentation is produced to show just the opposite.
doubt it.
it's not hard to really dig in and unearth the treasure, once you figure out where to dig.
I didn't change your wording, I put that in exactly as you said it. I just wondered why you have such disdain for people who talk about the calls yet, it seems a bit like the lies and the big ways in which OH has violated his agreement with the shareholders gets a pass.
bit of a double standard was what it was sounding like to me is all.
um....
"I have no use for those who can't hold up to what they signed/agreed to/terms accepted/etc. IMO that is just plain deceitful/harmful to others - so, they just show little regard for others and, consequently, should be expelled from such a project (or whatever it is) I worked too long with confidential matters to believe any differently"
Pooper,
Why do you still believe in OH then?
Big, huge, clanging brass ones he has.
um,
"The Legal Defense Team"?!?
Didn't he request a public defender or something like that?
I could see him possibly having some kind of remote, miniscule chance of possibly defending himself, if he'd already had a legal team that was working with him on Petro(like he said he already had quite a few times, if I remember correctly). That would mean that he would already have had documents and files following him every step of the way. He and his legal defense team could come in with their files and present their case. But, wow, good luck to him because he had to request someone. That means he has to pull stuff together from scratch with a guy that doesn't know him from Adam. If you believe what the affidavit says about Owen's, ahem, record keeping system, that attorney's got his work cut out for him!
Good Luck!
Just found this article in regards to that, nodummy
http://www.azcentral.com/12news/news/articles/2010/11/09/20101109mesa-business-arizona-corporate-commission1109.html
Wow!
The more you dig up, the more amazed I am at just how insidious it is!
Dude, really?
Seriously?
um no, you are totally off base. I was not questioning the legality of people exercising their right to assemble. Which, I'm not stupid, it is one of our RIGHTS. I was questioning the legality of continuing to promote Petro. Also, I'm questioning the mental state of people who are still planning on going through with this ridiculous demonstration.
Probably, at least IMO, it would be a good idea to let the legal process finish taking its course before people go ahead and carry that plan out. The Feds are usually pretty thorough when it comes to stuff like this, and, from the little snippets of crap that OH has put out there in his interview on the courthouse steps, I highly doubt that his day in court will be much better or even close to being sufficiently convincing that his story is true.
if it quacks like a duck.........
Thank you dhrr06, that is very kind of you.
Um, yeah, that's going to be soooo helpful. not.
I think you are so right, Hillbilly.
My mom was fooled and when this story broke she cried for a couple of days about it. She's in really bad shape financially and was really hoping. Siiiigh. For the last couple of years I warned her that it was probably a scam and as time went on I got really concerned about what would happen if I turned out to be right. It got to the point where, in spite of knowing deep down inside that it was a scam, I really hoped that it would work out so I wouldn't have to worry about her going off the deep end. I think she is going to be ok, but, she's really down in the dumps. Pisses me off that she got taken advantage of like that.
:(
I started reading the board because I was looking for some answers about this stuff and Owen certainly wasn't providing any! I also was trying to protect my mom. I'm just glad she didn't sink anymore money in than she did.
NoDummy,
I just wanted to tell you that I very much appreciate all of the information you have posted about this, ahem, company.
:)
I truly cannot understand how anyone could believe anything he says. The people holding the prayer meetings and doing the calls talking about how Petro is still going to go public... I feel kind of bad for them for being so outspoken right now. They are going to feel so stupid later when it finally hits them that they have been had.
It's rather sad, actually
wow.
I thought all of that stuff was illegal at this point.
these people have some brass ones, that's for sure.
Does anyone know what came out of OH's court appearance yesterday?
what is with all the cryptic shark stuff?
Obviously someone said something and it's all deleted, so it makes no sense. WTH is going on??????
Thank you for sharing kingent
That is very cool and interesting :)
Just as we can only speculate from the Emails we get from the calls from Owen and the gang, Egal.
There really is no one that is in a better spot here. We all have nothing but this guy's word.
We don't even have REAL certificates.
I still have hope, but, pretty much, it's business as usual until he provides some tangible evidence that all this talk is not crap.
Very, very soon... Uh huh, Ooooh-kaaay.
GLTA
I'm not holding my breath.
well, I realized that there was a better way to say it, so, I did.
and as far as editing goes, once you hit post, you have 15 minutes to go back in and edit it, if you don't like what you said.
:)
Happy Holidays to you too!
Well,
This is, after all, an investor's bulletin board. If you have done your research and have publically available and easily substantiated sources of info that you have gathered about a stock/IPO then this is where people come to get that info all in one place.
What the others of you, that are just coming here to post Go Petro Go, or, rhetoric about god and faith and all that other rubbish, don't seem to undertand is, this forum is not the appropriate place to post that. You wanna cheer for petro, start a blog. Do not post that here. If you have some "facts" based on sources that are posted in various places on the internet, THAT is what belongs in this forum. You cheerleaders are posting hearsay and crap. If you have something concrete, and an URL or some kind of link to substantiate your "info" post it. Otherwise, get your own room. Start a blog called "Go Petro", and comment all you want about how 'god' is going to bless you and yadda yadda. That stuff, just does not belong in this forum.
and btw... constantly talking in caps is considered! and is considered rude and poor internet etiquette.
This room has evolved into a constant bickering match. When it gets to that point, there is really nothing of value that can be gained.
Regardless of whether Harley rubs you wrong or not, even if he is wrong... He is about the only one here that has presented facts and provided a link for you to go and read yourself. Regardless of it being "old news", it's something. But you know what? I don't see Petro providing anything that counters the rather unsavory information, Official and Legal information, I might add, that is already out there. So, if you have nothing more than your opinion, or what you think 'god' is going to do through Owen, probably you should shut up and start looking for some hard cold facts that substantiates your beliefs in Owen and Petro. Maybe what Harley says is not what you want to hear. But, what he says, I believe at least bears consideration. He's trying to give you a reality check and saying, "hey, this is what the GOVERNMENT has said about these guys! Perhaps you should pay attention." He has also opened it up and really implored, no begged people to provide info, that can be proven, showing that Owen is above board. The scales are pretty unbalanced at this point between what Owen says he wants to do and what the government says is at this point. Perhaps more information will come to light to balance it out. Until then, it ain't lookin good for Owen and the gang.
I can understand if you have invested in your church shares and really need the money and are praying that he's gonna come through, finally... However, until there is something Official, and available for the Public to read, it's just hearsay or, quite possibly, insider info that could possibly get you in trouble later.
And as has been posted many, MANY times in here, until that merger is complete, if it ever happens, this is basically ASWD with a different name tag slapped on it. It's not the church shares. It's nothing to do with it in the government's eyes.
Talk is cheap. Give me some cold hard facts or please keep your opinion to yourselves. Thank you!
I am very glad you asked that question. I wondered if I was the only one concerned about that...
You said it was "starting to look suspect"
I asked... "starting?"
Pointing out that to a lot of people it has been and will remain suspect until some concrete tangible proof, follow through... geez, something! anything! that they have promised finally happens.
They've been saying soon, soon, soon, for what? over a year?
and before you ask... yes I have some of those blasted stocks.
Ahem...
Starting?
MLM = Multi-level Marketing = Pyramid Scheme