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yes we are in Ch 11 not chapter 7, but, my illustration was to show that at no time is shareholder's equity ever appear to be a consideration.
Indeed why would Judge Mary approve it? I was wondering very much why, if she approved the formation of the EC, did she not have any issue at all with them being left out of the equation last week? Why did she not stop Rosen dead in his tracks and bounce him out of her court room until he returned with a serttlement which included the EC!
Judge Mary probably not reading our letters. Her responsibility is not to shareholders, it's to the lawsuit over the $4 billion in deposits and tax writeoffs, and who should get it. If both sides agree to a settlement, which they already have, all she has to do is approve it once it's submitted, which she proabbly will. Shareholder equity is not part of this court case or her decision, sho she will ignore us. We have to look at this practically. Also, in almost all Bankruptcy cases, shareholder equity is assumed to be zero, and they get no consideration. Typically it's the job of the court appointed receiver if there is one, to liquidate assets and pay off the debtors, and if money is left over, bondholders, preferred shares, and lastly common shares. I have never seen it filter to common shares because there has never been enough liqidated prcoeeds.
Today's $.19 price most likely short covering. What do you guys think? I can't really think of anything ion the near term horizon that would cause the shares to increase in value. The proposed settlement is likely to be approved by Judge Mary, so no intrinsic reason for shareholders to celelbrate anything right now.
If you maintain the same First in first our shares accounting, the IRS will recognize your long term price as the acquisition price. Quicken helps you do this very easily, by lot identification when you enter the sales transaction. You tell it identify lots, then select first in.
Here's latest info on short sales WAMUQ :
So it would take 3 days to cover, meaning potentially 3 days of stock price moving up rapidly as they buy back the shares to cover the shorts.
Short Interest (Shares Short) 41,558,900
Days To Cover (Short Interest Ratio) 3.0
Short Percent of Float 2.44 %
Short Interest - Prior 41,350,300
Short % Increase / Decrease 0.50 %
Short Squeeze Rankingâ„¢ 35
% From 52-Wk High ($ 0.70 ) %
% From 52-Wk Low ($ 0.02 ) %
% From 200-Day MA ($ 0.16 ) %
% From 50-Day MA ($ 0.22 ) %
Price % Change (52-Week) 476.30 %
Shares Float 1,700,420,317
Total Shares Outstanding 1,705,359,302
% Owned by Insiders 0.30 %
% Owned by Institutions 71.70 %
Market Cap. $ 266,036,051
Trading Volume - Today 47,935,487
Trading Volume - Average 14,010,900
Trading Volume - Today vs. Average 342.13 %
Earnings Per Share -9.89
PE Ratio
Record Date 2010-MarA
Sector
Industry
Exchange NBB
Wait until it gets to $.08 and buy again. There will always be more false starts in this flopping fish of a stock, as renewed potential windfalls emerge. Keep in mind too, that when these things happen, all the shorts in the stock have to buy back their shares to realize their gains. People always forget that at any given time, there's boatloads of this stock still at a short interest, and it must be covered eventually. If you can take advantage of these times, it will double or triple your money. Too late for me though, since I own at $7.41 average price. But all you post seizure guys can keep on monopolizing on this. So what we didn't ge tour grand slam, but just like in baseball, I'll take a player who consistently hits singles or doubles, over a guy who once in a blue moon swings for the fences and gets lucky.
Judge Mary probably opening my letter right now...Yes, she's there in her chambers, enjoying her favorite Starbucks, leaning back relaxing, opening my letter, and then probably got a good chuckle out of it...
filled out my letter!
I did not sell Thursday, because I had no profits to lock in. My acquisition price is $7.41. The people I told to sell Thursday were the people who bought blow the $.60 price range, like maybe those who bought at $.20 and were already staring 300% profits in the face. How much profit do they have now? I have a huge loss, so I have all the time in the world to to either wait out a hail Mary lawsuit result, or choose the proper time to realize my loss.
Yes, I have 34,500 shares, average price of $7.41
Where else are they going to get more funds to pay them? No one wants a long drawn out lawsuit. In most cases like this, settlements are always made. In fact in all of the approximate dozen or so securities litigation which I have been a class member of, not one has gone to trial. I know you have all this research and theoretical analysis in the ibox, but I have real world experience. Maybe we should start a pot and everyone throw in a $100. My money is on the a quick acceptance of the settlement. Look at the word "Settlement", or as I like to think of it, "Settle" for less. That's really what it means in the securities litigation world. Both sides are settling for less than they want. Beleive me, this deal will be accepted.
So what is next catalyst for stock price upward?
They'll most likely accept settlement.
Look, the settlement proposes 50 cents on the dollar for bondholders and only a mere one cent on dollar for preferred shareholders. and of course $0 for you and me common share holders. If I was a bond holder, I'm not happy, but I'll gladly accept 50% of my premium back, as there is no other source of funds for a settlement on the horizon, so I bet they will take it. OF course the EC was caught off guard, they were never a force to be reckoned with, so they were kept out of the conversation.
I hope some people listened to me, sold Thursday. Remember on Thursday I suggested that people not get too greedy, and sell have your holdings Thursday in case of a huge plummet on Friday. Did anyone out there take me up on that advice? Just hoping my words helped to save someone.
Trades are going by as we speak. Very slow, but I am seeing 100 share lots going by on Strategy Desk.
If delay goes over weekend, does the stock drop or stay the same?
Weird spike in stock price at 11:10. Did you guys all see that, or is it a false data point on my streamer?
Weird spike in stock price at 11:10. Did you guys all see that, or is it a false data point on my streamer?
I sure hope I am wrong! But alas, experience with this type of stuff in the past has shown otherwise. I would love nothing more than to be wrong and see the stock at $4 by the end of today.
Settlements require you to prove a loss. Period. You guys are trying to equate pre-seizure shares with post-seizure shares. They are not the same thing when it comes to settlements. No matter whether you call it a settlement or class action. If and when there's a settlement, they will send us all paperwork that we must itemize the losses we incurred. If you can't show any losses from the claims of the settlement, you get nothing period. I don't expect to get anything, because bondholders and preferred shareholders I'm sure will snap up all of the settlement. My only hope there is a bump up in the stock price to turn my 100% loss into maybe only a 60% loss.
Why penny stock was on CNBC:
Because of the shear volume and the fact that it was up 400% last month, and something like 1500% in the last 12 months. CNBC even said "normally we don't cover such penny stock speculation, but..."
Another hope for shareholders comes from a class action lawsuit, American National Insurance Co. vs. FDIC, which is still making its way through the courts.
Settlement, class action, same thing, it's all about who is the victim, and who gets paid. There is also a class action lawsuit going on, the insurance company that owns a boatload of shares also has a suit going. Did you forget about that?
Here's video on CNBC about WAMUQ:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/35797356/site/14081545
Scroll down the story, you'll see the video screen shot on the page, and click to view it, anchor from CNBC's Jeff Cox.
Settlement payment order: 1) Bond Holders 2) Preferred shareholders 3) Common Stock holders
This is the order of who gets paid if there's a settlement, so I hope those who have posted potential payout numbers, have taken this into account.
Whenever there is a settlement in a class action lawsuit, that is the order of who gets paid. As a common stock holder from before the seizure of WAMU I still am expecting to not get much gain out of this, since analysts are saying it would take well north of $12 Billion for common shareholders to see any benefit.
So just to clarify for all you guys buying post-seizure, you will not benefit by any settlement, other than the slight gains in the stock price, which theoretically, the settlement may not trickle down to in a big way like most people are expecting.
Furthermore, if you are a post-seizure share buyer, you will not get any settlement at all because you were not a victim of the JP Morgan/Shelia Blair Witch alleged scam as alleged in lawsuits.
I just want to make sure some of you don't get false hopes of an $8 stock price, all the experts have pretty much said this will not happen, even the story on CNBC on the air 2 days ago, the experts there reiterated.
Now I still think there will be short covering and the stock will rise, but plan accordingly folks, it might not shoot to th emoon like you expect.
All I'm saying is for you guys already in the profit, it makes prudent sense to sell some and use the rest for icing on the cake. As for me, I must have an out of the park home run in order to make money, I'm in at $7.41. Usually a double down makes no sense, but once a stock drops to these levels, how much lower can it go. So we are at the rock bottom as far as I am concerned compared to my entry price, but not as far as the post seizure investors are concerned. So a couple of hundred dollars won't affect me either way.
ok, since shorting is going on, I'm headed out to Costco for lunch and food supplies. Maybe it will settle when I get back and I'll buy some more.
I might sneak in a few more shares for purchase if there's a big dip later today. I can throw away a few hundred dollars for a few thousand more just in case there is a big score. What's a few hundred more on MY terms rather than on Sheila Blair Witch terms!
How I acquired my WAMU shares. I started buying them in May, 2008. I would by 10k to 20k shares when they were $10 or so, and get out with quick profits when it moved a quarter point. Did this for several weeks. Then suddenly the meltdown of the markets started in June 2008, and stock started sliding down and never recovered. It was in the $6 range when I bought more, and I think even down to $4 range, thinking the largest bank in US could not fail. My average was thus $7.41 by time I acquired and averaged to 34,500 shares when it was all said and done. Then stock was at $5 and I was about to sell it all to minimize my loss when new CEO came out around 9/15/2008 and lied and said they had enough funds to last until 2012, so I held firm. Then on 9/24, on the way to Sarasota to spread my deceased mom’s ashes from a boat, that’s the day the OTS/FDIC/Sheila Blair Witch/JP Morgan moved in and shut down Washington Mutual. I’m still considering a lawsuit against the CEO, as I feel he mislead us. I would have sold my shares the day he lied to us, but stupid me I believed him. The rest is pink sheet history boys. But I still have God, trying not to focus too much on blessings of this earth, and looking forward to the next!
The recent rise in WAMUQ helps my margin account tremendously. One interesting side effect, is every dime movement in WAMUQ share price, bumps up my account value by about $3000, which gives me more margin buying power, which allows me to make a few more trades and earn a few $$$ while I sit here in Purgatory.
Go WAMUQ!
I have 34,000 shares at $7.41, just praying for a miracle from God. I did not buy extra shares because doubling down in a deal like this is a suckers bet. Anyone else got me beat with number of shares or acquitiion price?
Well they COULD agree to the settlement just to avoid wrongdoing, but my bet still says they will only offer a settlement to people who can show a loss. That's how all settlements in the past have worked, they send you paperwork, and you have to prove a loss based on the claims of the lawsuit.
Jimmy: only victims are pre-seizure people. Everyone after that, bought around $.10 as specualtion knowing what the score is and is essentially in the profit right now, hence no victims, hence no plause...
where did you get that trade screen? That was awesome, breaking out the buys and sells.
Here's what happens to shorts. If there is a settlement or other positive news that sends the shares up over $1 or so, the wave of short sellers who margined their purchase, will be faced with margin calls that can take 3 days to resolve, after which the brokerage will buy back the shares for them to clear out the short and pay off the margin owed. When this happens, it ads fuel to the fire of all the other shorts racing to buy the shares back to get out of Dodge. It will be swift. Short squeeze as of last week was showing 3 days to cover, meaning you would see 3 days in a row of stock increasing just from the short squeeze alone.
Seasoned investors are locking in profits by selling some off now, and probbaly retaining the other half for after the news. This is how you gauranteein profits, rather than risk losing it all and get nothing but crying in your beer..
Why would people sell? Because nothing is gauranteed. The stock could easily drop back to $.10 tomorrow with an unfavorable reuling. Foolish poeple always assume because there is a lawsuit, that we will win. So smart money often sells at a good peak before losing it all. Remmber, hogs get fat, but pigs get slaughtered. SMart money realizes they more than doubled in the last week or so, and cashes in. Smart money maybe sells half or enough to recover their principle plus 10% profit, and leaves the rest in for any potential icing on the cake.
Why is WAMUQ up so much today? I have not been able to find the reason, no news reports. It's been moving up like this from $.10 like this for 2 weeks but just got crazy today. Anyone know whay?