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As much as I would like to agree and would feel personally vindicated, most of all I want to do what is best for Kiwa financially. That may include a deal in which the debt Kiwa owes NIR is considered to be paid in full and all ties to NIR/Ribotsky etc severed in exchange for an affadavit in which Kiwa acknowledges that NIR has always acting in Kiwa's long term interests and is a "friendly, non-adversarial investor" along with Kiwa not cooperating with prosecuting authorities.
I think Kiwa should go to Ribotsky and essentially say that they fully intend to cooperate with the investigating authorities and describe in detail how NIR/Ribotsky manipulated the share price (which is highly illegal)and that their relationship is highly adversarial. If Ribotsky/NIR agrees to essentially consider the bonds paid off and Kiwa's financial obligations towards them resolved, then Kiwa would sign an affadavit indicating that NIR was a friendly, non-adversarial investor who always had Kiwa's long term interests in mind.
I think it is in no way an indication of the company's future. There were around 100,000 shares that traded at .001 looking like someone had a tiny position and got sick of looking at it in his portfolio and just sold it at the market. 100k shares at .001 is all of $100. Then it looks like a market maker wanted to scare nervous longs and sold around 5000 shares at .0005 which is all of $2.50...it wasn't a "real investor" as no one would pay $10 in commissions to generate $2.50 in gross proceeds as it would be a net negative. So it had to be a market maker who doesn't pay commissions painting the tape.
Clearly there are some concerns at Kiwa and it is a very speculative stock. While there without a doubt risks associated with it, I think there is much more upside potential then downside risk.
Will be very ineresting to see how this all plays out!
Again WRONG and deliberately misleading. Wei Li has lent the company a lot of money...he definitely has an interest in developing AF-01 and seeing KIWA prosper in order to re-coup his money his money he has personally loaned the company. AF-01 could easily be a product, if/when full regulatory approval to manufactur it is granted and if it is properly marketed, can do $20 mln in sales a year annually. So not only does he have the millions of money he has lent the company that he has an interest in re-couping but there is also the potential for him to own a 5% of a company doing +$20mln a year in sales annually.
But the simple question to ask is, why on Earth would he continue to financially support the company if his plan is to just let the company go under?
Nice try CWQB...you're a smart guy and have a strong degree of knowledge on the company...but your real agenda is starting to materialize and become highly transparent and I'm losing a lot of respect for you as a result.
Kiwa holds the rights to AF-01 and KIWA is going to continue to develop and market it once it gains full regulatory clearance. If, for some reason, regulatory approval is not granted then Kiwa very well may cease all operations. But the reason Wei Li CONTINUES to financially support Kiwa is because the product truly has blockbuster potential.
KangTan very well may receive financing opportunities for other agricultural endeavors, some of which may have been business efforts that Kiwa has pursued in the past, but this in no way whatsoever means that Kiwa, as a company, is done with as you clearly have alluded to. I have quite a good idea why you have suggested that Kiwa is going under, but out of respect for your past efforts I will refrain from discussing them on this board...for the time being.
NIR does not own shares! They own convertible bonds that do not have voting rights...if they did then they would have voted to increase the a/s count!!! When they convert their bonds into shares they do so at a 20% ( I believe) discount and immediately sell to lock in that spread and the rate of return.
Wei Li has to keep Kiwa alive as as that is the entity he lent money to and more importantly Kiwa also has the AF-01 rights.
I have better things to do with my time then spending them doing your DD. They are in there.
Look in the filings and you will see how much of Kiwa management owns and how much money they have lent to Kiwa directly...they are not about to let it all go under.
Kiwa owns Kangtan so the profits flow to Kiwa ultimately. Why would management, who own so many shares of Kiwa and who has lent Kiwa money, let Kiwa go under? I agree with what you are saying about Ribotsky and NIR but I do not think Kiwa will be allowed to fail when management has so much tied to it in the form of equity and debt.
I seriously doubt there would be a reverse split as senior management owns too many shares themselves...so I think for the most part their long term interests will be closely aligned to those of the general shareholders and we will see them secure financing in a more shareholder friendly way such as grants & low interest loans from the government.
Agreed. eom
I think for the most part, in order to limit costs the company has put some of their divisions on hold pending approval of AF-01 and will resume those operations once approval is granted.
Imperativity, the company had no desire whatsoever to double the share count to 800 million. The only reason they put it up for a shareholder vote was because they were obligated to do so in order to adhere to the covenants of NIR/Ribotsky's bonds. They don't want it any more then investors do. The only one who wants it is Ribotsky as it would allow him to convert more of his bonds into shares at a 20% discount and immediately selling locking in that risk-free rate while manipulating the pps lower in the process. The company is required to "ask" because it (authorization to increase the share count) needs shareholder approval...but it is just a formality. They will probably be required to do it again in the not too distant future. Again...it is just a formality! Investors and management will all vote "no," leaving Ribotsky the only one voting "yes" hopefully from and 8' x 8' jail cell on Rikers Island.
Less then $2,500 worth of shares traded today.
After speaking with the company on several occasions I get the distinct feeling that management is of the opinion that it is futile to make the effort to be more transparent while that proverbial window is open which allows the noteholder to convert and obtain shares at a huge discount & sell their shares in the market places locking in a generous risk free rate of return. There are very positive developments in the works but I get the feeling that their mindset is "why bother" putting out PRs generating more shareholder interest in an effort to get the pps back up to .0015 (for example) only to have it knocked right back down to current levels by the noteholder.
Makes sense. Do you have any sort of a handle on how much principal is left on the note(s) and when they will have an open window to convert next?
It will take the absence of the noteholder converting at a discounted pps and selling shares in the market locking in a generous risk-free rate of return. Until then there will be a tremendous disconnect between the pps and what it "should" reflect given the company's operating performance & potential.
Perhaps they anticipated regulatory clearance in the 2nd half...
That's perhaps the most compelling argument to be a buyer of KWBT. The fact that he continues to financially support the company with no real revenues says that he sees a light at the end of the tunnel. If there was no hope then he would have folded up shop a long time ago. The fact that he continues to lend them money is enormously bullish!
I don't know if it is a function of an agenda you have, a lack of understanding how the financial markets work, an erroneous understanding how this particular deal is structured, poor grammar along with an inability to convey your thoughts or all of the above...but I have absolutely no idea what the point you are trying to make is.
Wrong. It is a convertible bond/debenture that allows the holder to convert their notes into shares at a discount (usually 15-20%) to the pps. The noteholder immediately sells their shares locking in a risk free 15-20% gain.
I agree the PR on the show was fluff...I'm speculating but I think they were of the opinion that they might be able to hold up the shares a little better at the time (as well as appease some of the people constantly calling them etc.)
I don't think they expect too many consumer orders for the rebreather unit for a few years...I think the offshore oil services sector or the US Navy and/or Coast Guard is a more likely buyer and where they are putting their emphasis. But it is entirely too early to say it was a flop in sales just because there have not been any as of yet.
I spoke with them recently and am very much of the opinion that everything is still on track for Blu Vu and that it holds massive potential but management is of the opinion that the noteholder is very satisfied converting shares from the notes at a 15-20% discount (that is the discounted rate I'm speculating they get...they would not elaborate) and selling them in the market for that guaranteed risk-free 15-20% return. That being the case I think they are of the opinion that little can be done for the time being and that why should they bother putting out a PR only to see the pps spike up to .0012 only to fall back down to current levels as the noteholder continues manipulate the pps. I think they are very much inclined to let the noteholder convert and play their games and wait for them to finish before doing much w/ respect to an investor relations campaign. Not saying I agree or disagree...just saying they seem to be of the "why bother trying to get the pps up if they (the noteholder) is just going to knock it back down" mindset.
With respect to the operating performance, everything seems to be on track from what I gather although they did not go into any specifics.
I'm not suggesting you have or have not called the company. I have no idea whether or not you did. I'm suggesting that you can accomplish more by doing so then by posting here as I believe the last PR was done more to appease shareholders then to disseminate "actual news." I spoke with them the prior day and they made it clear that they were getting frustrated from the bombardment of calls they had been getting.
I believe if they do issue a PR (as I said in my earlier message) in the next few days that it will be more of a similar appeasement PR then an actual development. I just think if they were to issue a PR that it could do a little bit to hold off this large sell-off you keep complaining about. I certainly would not expect the shares to trade at above .003 until we do get a significant corporate development but I do believe that a PR along the likes of the last could spike the shares up to the .001 to .0015 levels or so. I don't expect it to be too long lived as I don't think the note-holder will stop converting until after major news. Perhaps I'm wrong about that but I think calling the company makes more sense then the constant complaining I see on these boards.
I hear what you are saying but I truly believe that your efforts are misguided in the sense that you can accomplish much, much more if you spent 1/2 the time you spend posting here on calling the company and annoying them to the point that they will issue a PR just to shut you up and finding out who the note-holder is and calling the portfolio manager convincing him that there is much more upside in the stock and they could make much more money by letting it run rather then the 15-20% discount they are obtaining shares at by exercising their conversion rights and then selling them in the market.
Thanks and I think you're an intelligent person as well...yet I don't agree with you frequently.
I don't have my head in the sand in the least bit. I'm upset but also I must say that whether the shares are at .0004 or .0014 is pretty irrelevant to me. My intent is to hold the shares until they are at a pps that reflects the true value and potential of the company. .0014 does not come close by a long shot. Obviously, I wish I had been able to establish my position at these levels but no one rings the bell at the top or at the bottom saying "time to get out/in to a stock."
I originally bought shares at .0017 and while I certainly wish I had gotten in lower, I got in at a level that is about a 600% discount to what I believe that true value and potential of the company is (I put that at about .01 right now but could revise that much higher with a lightbulb deal w/ GE or with an order from Haliburton or other oil services stock for the rebreather unit.) I've since averaged in buying more shares and am still under the impression that I will eventually make a killing on this investment. It is certainly not without risks as I believe the noteholder will continue to exercise their conversion rights securing that risk-free 15-20% discount they can obtain shares at until there is a more compelling reason not (ie news of a large deal whether it is with GE or Haliburton or the US Navy which has been examining the rebreather unit.)
Yes I'm annoyed that I am down on my investment. Penny stocks are HIGHLY speculative so while annoyed, admittedly, I was well prepared for that potential going into this investment. And I furthermore prepared (but annoyed) for more potential dilution, until there is a reason not to convert. I do agree with what you're saying about the potential for a "flipper haven." So that is yet another hurdle that the company will eventually have to overcome. I do believe the company has been bombarded with calls/emails from angry shareholders and I do get the sense that a PR is coming this week...more to appease shareholders then anything else. Hopefully it is "major news" but I'm not expecting any significant development to be announced this week...just something they can put out to appease shareholders and to demonstrate that they are indeed aware of and concerned with the fall in the pps.
But I do believe that eventually, over the long term pretty much all stock prices will generally trade at levels that reflect the true value and potential of the company's operating performance.
The chart is ugly without a doubt but personally I don't put too much credence in TA w/ penny stocks...some, yes but MUCH less then with larger caps.
A seller is a seller so in a sense you're right that there is an overhang on the stock that will probably persist until the company releases long awaited news. It does matter to a much larger agree as to the potential of the company. Right now the note-holder obviously is more concerned with a risk free 15-20% rate of return they can get by exercising their conversion rights then with a true "investment" in the long term outlook and potential for the company...ergo they convert and dilute the shares.
Undeniably that sucks for shareholders. But this does not alter the long term outlook of the company's operating performance.
What do you expect to accomplish with all your rantings?
Then why don't you sell your shares?
If you're long the stock then why are you posting overwhelmingly negative comments about it that happen to be untrue?
Yes there is a form of dilution occurring. It is not the company dumping the shares however...it is a note-holder. In order to raise funds the company issued a convertible note that grants the note-holder the right to convert some of the fixed-income principal into shares at 15-20% (typical of pink sheet, OTC BB, micro-cap convertibles...NOT the case w/ most stocks trading on the NASDAQ, NYSE, etc) discount. It does not matter to the note-holder whether the shares are at .0008 or $80, the note-holder is exercising the conversion privileges just to lock into the 15-20% discount risk free.
When news breaks they will have a vested interest in seeing the pps higher as they will get a much greater rate of return then the 15-20% they are getting returning. But for now, that 15-20% rate risk free is pretty attractive.
If you're long the shares why do you keep posting such negative comments you know are untrue?
If you could manage to spend 5 minutes doing a little DD of your own rather then asking people to spoon feed the information to you, and actually took a few minutes to search through various postings and PRs then you would probably come away realizing what a compelling speculative investment DTRO is.
Because typically in deals like this the noteholder has a clause in the bond's covenants that permit them to receive shares at a discount to the current pps (usually 15-20% in deals like this...this is not typical of all convertibles, just convertible bonds for pink sheet, OTCBB microcap stocks etc.) Whether the pps is .0008 or .80 is irrelevant to them...they are only interested in locking in that riskfree 15-20% discount to the price they sell their shares at as stipulated in the bond covenants.
Once news does break, they will have a vested interest in seeing the shares go higher because they will get a much greater rate of return. But for the time being they are content with that 15-20% risk free return.
This stock could easily be at .01 by the end of the year with newsflow on a lightbulb deal w/ GE or a contract for the rebreather unit from the US Navy or some of the players in the offshore oil services sector. You just don't get that +1500% upside potential without a few risks.
Agreed on all points! eom
LMAO...My "agenda" is to hold on until we see the pps reflecting the true value and potential of the company. This is, in my opinion, somewhere around .01 or so but may be revised upwards depending on the timing & size of deals in the works. However, I would sell (with the intent to replace at a lower level) on a significant rally up to the the .003 level or so if that rally would occur prior to newsflow of a deal.
That's my nefarious agenda spelled out for you, TJG. This, in my opinion, is not the right stock for the flippers who want to make a quick 20% and get bent out of shape when someone buys on the bid.
That post is ridiculous...even for you!
Lot's of people are also investigating in the company with a long term strategy in mind and are not in the least bit concerned about getting a short term spike in the pps so some flipper can get out fast with a 20% profit.
Seriously, all of the complaining about buying on the bid instead of the offer I hear on this board makes the agendas of some people so transparent!
agreed! my spelling/grammar in my last post was pretty horrendous...trying to do 4 things at once and did not have time to proof. anyway...good luck to you as well.
I agree it is certainly not as beneficial as it could be but I could it be "counterproductive?" I just don't see it. I think when there is a new deal to be announced that it would:
1) bring in a number of new shareholders
2) change the investment strategy of the noteholder. the current strategy is for them to essentially lock in the 15-20% (presumably) discount they het upon conversion and then selling into a long term holder. there is much more upside potential in the shares then 15-20% they are getting and I am sure they aware but are probably selling a portion of their notes for 1) diversification 2) a risk-free 15-20% return is still pretty nice 3) may have fund redemptions so there could be a need to raise cash etc. They foresake their annual coupons on the bonds when they exercise the conversion privilege so longer they hold their bonds the more coupons they collect and greater upside potential.
But I do agree there will be an overhang on the stock until the bonds mature or are fully converted.
They will have to put something out to comply with listing requirements etc, but I certainly don't see them being terribly active in doing PRs unless there is something the needs to be dissemminated. I've spoken to thm on a few occasion and am confidently they will announce something when there is a significant deal and/or a fundmental development. We've seen them put out PRs to appease some of the persistent whiners after they have been bombarded w/ calls.
But I think once they do a deal:
1) they will issue the PR to update shareholders
2) it is in their vested interest to do so. now the noteholder just exercises their conversion privileges getting shares at (what is typically) a 15-20% discount and selling them in the market for that 15-20% for the most part risk-free. but once the news is out then they will have a much greater interest in seeing the shares run as they will easily make more then 15-20% upside. so once there is a deal then it becomes the interest of the company to announce it in a PR.
BTW...Just so there is no confusion there are at least a dozen other flaws with your so-called logic and understanding of the markets I could easily point out but I really don't have the desire to waste my time.