Washington Mutual Mortgage Reinsurance, Inc. - stock holders won in this major bankruptcy case.
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Thanks for posting that article/ press release about evidence of wrong doing.
This is so very educational.
I want you to know that I am educating my teenagers about the financial structure and gamesmanship of the U.S. banking system with all this great DD.
Thank you!
I see your point. Chase is managed by some pretty cocky people, obviously. But I guess that's their style.
We'll see who actually owns that tradename pretty soon.
ummmmmmmmmm
Here's a discussion about commons versus preferred from the yahoo board:
http://messages.finance.yahoo.com/Stocks_(A_to_Z)/Stocks_W/threadview?m=tm&bn=86316&tid=103557&mid=103557&tof=10&frt=2
I hear you on all that Butty. Thanks. Here in Seattle, we got ripped off big time, big time. The politics behind the whole thing really s uc k.
It only makes us all more rebellious really, imho.
JPM Chase expects to do business up here but once this whole story does get out their market share will be hit hard.
Thanks.
Thanks for the clarity. I don't know as much detail as I would like but I do know that with Alfred Newman in the Whitehouse nobody had the leadership they needed. Checks and balances were out the window and for years people like Paulson did whatever.
That seems clear now, especially in contrast to the new approach which uses the law, communication, meetings and open minded discussion to get issues on the table and work through problems.
Right, the FDIC is claiming based on law theory... the Congressman and the Judge will not want this to drag on as though we all need a new precedent worked out here. The claim is well stated and thorough and actually is a good map for settlement. Hopefully, out of court, the solution to this will be constructed using these very disputes. The resolution trust, or "bad bank" that maybe set up will be structured so that bank holding companies and bank corps will be more easily divisable in the future for the protection of the FDIC and us tax payers.
In the meantime, good work by FDIC but not a game changer, imho.
Definitely; wamugate.
I just saw "Frost Nixon" the other day. The idea that "when a president does it it isn't against the law" still lives at the upper levels of government and banking. That one idea is at the root of this problem. Someone like Hank Paulson still thinks he doesn't have to double check on the rules of the game, nor did Jaime or Sheila when they engaged in this hasty act. In my opinion the idea that the FDIC even looks like it cooperated with JPM's intention to take over WMB is bad for business and for all tax payers. That's the PR issue we need to handle in this settlement; private, special interests undermining the good of the whole. Democracy is a fight against tyranny, tyranny being the modus operandi unfortunately.
My opinion only.
wow, this crew should be involved in actually making money instead of playing blues clues! Great work on this puzzle, I guess.
That story about Goldman looking to become an holding company is a big story for a variety of reasons. As the article says,
"investment banks" are a thing of the past. JPM has a competitor and I believe those who have a say will encourage at least 3 banks to be competing for market share rather than simply pouring all support for one.
Anyway, at least the court has "takers" for parts of the WMB exploded banking institution. Now the FDIC has to do the right thing and settle with WMI asap, imho.
I don't know if GS will enter here. The invoices from attorneys have lots of names on them... research those and you may find something. I'm not going to go that far to predict the future.
The judge can respond to claims in writing and enter that response on the public record without a hearing, I think.
So,we will see. In the meantime, Mordicai pointed out some upcoming action that should keep us all on a learning curve, and occupied, while the new regulatory body, with retroactive policies, gets set up.
The holding company is not for sale and they don't intend to go out of business. The title "Washington Mutual" will likely be gone for ever because JPM could sue for trademark infringement since they will have purchased that once the deal is done. But the guys who run WMI could merge with Goldman, I guess.
Maybe that toxic bank idea has legs and Obama and Geitner are going to set that up like a temp Fed receivership to the benefit of JPM, WMB, WMI and the FDIC.
The invoices say as much; the two sides are talking.
This article mentions Warren B leaving GS
http://www.thestreet.com/story/10480271/3/goldman-setbacks-may-weigh-on-its-brand.html
It's true. The example of government is like night and day.
Governments actually do things, good ones.
They collect enough money don't they? We should see and feel the results of tax spending. Trust yourself. What makes sense here? Don't believe it's too complicated for you to understand.
The rip off was done under the "watch" of people with very bad habits who have lost all perspective; 2 billion for 300 billion in assets, marked to market by an outdated system. Not good, not right, wrong, bad... and now with the new admin we can get down to it.
I don't know about "solid";
http://www.thestreet.com/story/10480271/3/goldman-setbacks-may-weigh-on-its-brand.html
This article says though the stock price is high, their image is hurting now.
Ain't it?
That all seems accurate. "Apparent reality" is our problem. We don't see all that is involved. The one element that will be managed well is the use of attorneys and their antics. There will be no patience for this, in my opinion. Mordicai's response is the one that holds the most valuable details and no real promises. WE shall see but it shouldn't take years!
That's the rub. We are just waking up to the regulatory needs and don't seem to have this administrative chore organized! lol
The idea that the FDIC and the courts would wind up most of their business before the reorganization date of April 23rd makes sense to me. However, those dates can change when the likes of the FDIC and Treasury get involved, I would imagine. The fact is that the financial regulatory rules and regs were not updated to handle this mess so it's onward through the fog. imho
Rock on.
enter "bear stearns stock swap" in google. Very interesting reading. The parallels are evident. As a matter of fact JPM probably learned a bunch about how to do this take over from that scenario one year ago.
Something here on the topic:
http://dealbook.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/03/18/the-mystery-of-the-bear-stearns-stock-price/
That is the cusp of the argument, but no, it doesn't automatically mean things mentioned in the claim are, in fact now belong to WMI. It means that JPM claims them as part of the sale.
Now, if I have learned anything from people like Mordicai, sidedraft, W3, Bobfan, Jackson, Z and the whole lot, by itemizing these things JPM is forced to put in writing the many valuable pieces to this huge seizure. As the value is estimated the bill goes up, right? It's a win/win for WMB and these itemized lists are now going to be used to get a fair deal by WMB per their complaint.
Jackson, Let's figure out a reasonably likely calculation for the swap. Bears Stearns got .21, or so, of a share JPM. How did they get to that number?
Cool. Let's do this calc here on the board.
Okay, it looks like JPM lawyers did, indeed, present all of the proof of claims desired by the court, including many aspects of the "purchased" property. Of course this is all in contention but that list of link is the rest of the proof of claims, after the cover page we discussed earlier here.
imho
Warren likes to buy low! I'll bet that's him trying to buy more than the 5% interest; just a wild guess.
Maybe, maybe not. Judge not... JPM going down is not a good thing in my mind right now.
I don't have enough information to make a call on that, or I haven't look at what is available. What's the math look like. I can do math, what are the factors?
I highly suspect the market makers were given very specific instructions on how to handle these stocks back in the Fall. Pun intended. I look forward, in the years to come, to get much closer to the floor trading action so I can understand how these guys hold down prices.
BTW, the stock swap is not bad because JPM's stock will likely rocket after these issues are worked out.
I'm with you Lawrence. It couldn't be simpler and that's that. Next project?
Yeah, she could give them 1.88 billion worth of something and let it go at that! lol But, I wonder if the judge can override or steer any of the real split up of the bank since the FDIC may overrule or whatever, her decisions. I don't know how the WMI claims can be settled given such vague notions of ownership in this seizure and sale. What a mess FDIC made, and JPM is showing no leadership here.
Jackson,I agree! What a lame claim! This is what I thought; JPM is doing as little as possible, and spending as little as possible because the whole idea is that WMB was worthless anyway and that's how they want to treat it. It's psych war, really.
I'm thinking that the stock swap is the only way to get this done with the least expense. WMI may want to fight that on some level, e.g. pride, damages, or future business plans, etc, but the FDIC is expanding their reach and will have some influence on what WMI can expect to accomplish in the future as a bank related entity if they don't or do cooperate. It all comes down to dollars and managers, though they may have been lawyers, are not into letting the lawyers have all the fun over the many months or years this may take to let them sort it out. Judge W isn't into that either and WMI has stated they intend to be out of BK by summer so let's cut to the quick. After the G20 summit Sheila and Obama can talk. In the meantime Obama aids are setting out a path of resolution which is undoubtedly going to be coordinated with the FDIC and Sheila's people. all my opinion.
http://www.kccllc.net/documents/0812229/0812229090330000000000263.pdf
This is a proof of claim from JPM filed 3/30 in which their lawyer says they want what is coming to them.
My take is that Sheila is going to have to fix this since the FDIC was the agent of sale and as such must have some responsibility in deciding what was sold.
Basic contract law principles apply, I think. The exact terms of what the FDIC is responsible for is something I covered last week in a post here. The issue is, imho, that the FDIC didn't do their job; it was hasty and obviously not executed in the least expensive manner protecting the insurance fund for which it is paid to use and protect. The FDIC is now in legal trouble, and JPM basically insists as much, as does WMI.
That seems to be the link that I am using too. click through the alphabet and then choose Washington Mutual and then choose Court Documents. Thanks.
http://data.cnbc.com/quotes/%20wamuq/tab/8 some data on this stock