Washington Mutual Mortgage Reinsurance, Inc. - stock holders won in this major bankruptcy case.
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Yes. There are several articles out this Sunday actually calling for Obama to step in take more leadership action, not less. People want out of the woods. Everyone doesn't want to sit around and let the wheels of justice grind slowly.
Hey, here's something off topic that's kind of cool: spider web material made by humans: http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20090424005591&newsLang=en
I'm going to buy more tomorrow or Tuesday, actually.
Let's just see what happens. I sense there is an impasse between Dimon and WMI ownership about who is going to get the better of one another. I think egos are going to come into play here and someone is going to have to step in and take responsibility for the final outcome. Dimon doesn't really want to have the last word because no matter what he does he is going to get criticized from one side or the other. Also, WMI lawyers are not going to take just any deal offered. So, to take the heat off Dimon and to push for the best deal, I think there may be some tough days ahead full of uncertainty.
For example, last week... who the heck knew without a doubt that the reorg was going to be rescheduled. No one on this board. And going forward, no one really knows 100% what is going to happen or when it is going to happen, except that something very good for WAMU stock holders, but I think that there will be final curtain call of egos on this, like what is happening with Ken Lewis and Paulson and Bernenke now. all my opinion, so there's wtf.
Doesn't WMI ownership have to sign off on all this?
I mean, there are real people behind these numbers.
I don't know any of the WMI ownership personally but when it comes down to settling with JPM they are not going to go easy on JPM.
The offer to settle has to be truly stellar. The FDIC may actually pay off WMI first and then their war chest is even larger.
Other than that, the stock buying maneuvers sound likely but I'm still learning about all that.
Hi, I'm watching the local WAMU branches here in Seattle area.
The signage evolution is interesting but I don't want to infer too much or spend much mental energy surmising.
I have seen some branches that have no indication they are moving to become Chase. I know that not all locations will become Chase branches.
I saw a signage contractor measuring at my local WAMU branch just the other day.
The negotiations are not settled and the longer it takes the more it costs JPM. I think we will know within 30 days which way this thing is going to go. The new funds for the FDIC will be approved, like the rise in the insured amount of deposits from 100K to 250K. Once that is done the FDIC has the money to settle and JPM can be covered too since, in a worse case scenario, JPM leans on the FDIC, especially now that it has all these retail banking outlets from WAMU.
Another thing is that the 4 billion deposited by WMI in JPM is not settled yet, and it is a very painful piece. Unless WMI gets a great settlement offer this may actually get real ugly for a week or two, until the President and Treasury Secretary are forced to take a stand and lead the way. I wouldn't be surprised to see it come to that. Leadership among bankers is not their forte', following the crowd and doing what they are told is their strength. It takes all kinds, I just wish every kind of person would follow their moral compass more often.
All my opinion.
Joseph in Seattle
P.S. Let's have a little fun on weekends.. .I know the stress levels are at all time highs these days. Take care.
It does make sense, as ironical and unexpected as it may seem, that JPM joins in the WMI suit against the FDIC ... but I think the personalities behind WMI are not going to mix with JPMers for love or money... imho.
You are a fellow Northwesterner! We have our pride! Don't we?
First off; good point on the title being not clear on the office building here in Seattle. What buyer is going to go into that deal with a lien like that one there?
I'm still figuring out the rest of what you wrote.
It's all good. Thanks for the fun graphics and enthusiastic input.
You da man!
Go WAMUQ. Get onboard. That's what I say! Right you are Viva!
There's a train a comin' ...
Pickin' up passengers from coast to coast...
The Seattle Times Editorial today, Sunday, calls for the biggest banks to be split up. That will solve the "too big to fail" problem!
How about just "TOO BIG"... can't get enough... has to eat all the time... monopolizing the public trough... there's a flip side to everything.
Sing it loud, sing it clear... our time is here... ! The
tide is turning... our beds are burning... how can you sleep?
etc. etc... we are going to have to be a little bit crazy if we are going to make it...
Just between you me and the lamp post, it is common knowledge that the most "intelligent" among us don't work for the government. The pay isn't that good. Thus, those who work for the Fed have been commonly considered "superior" as a matter of fact. The common order among business professionals supersedes the political and economic systems chain of command. Fact is, the systems were put into place to balance the "natural order" which tends toward tyranny based on the ego's dominance in our consciousness.
In short; the Fed tells the Treasury what to do when the dummies are in office and there is a log jam or stand off when, miraculously, the intelligent quotient between the two; now Geitner and Berneke, is similar. All imho.
The deposit record, posted here awhile back, shows the 3.8 billion or so is WMI's. This simple fact along with the fact that the FDIC has said they don't have legal right to seize bank holding companies is like 2 + 2 = ripoff.
I don't what else to say. Damages please?
After 7 months JP Morgan still holds 4 billion dollars, the ownership of which is contested on highly questionable grounds. Imagine someone keeping $250K of your money after you ask them to hold it for you. You ask for it back and they say it is not yours because they have it. The bank holding company is not the bank. The money belongs to the WMI, the holding company. Sheila Bair and the FDIC have admitted publicly that they have no legal right to seize holding companies. Therefore JPM is simply saying, "possession is 9 10th of the law". If this is this true I may have to go into the thieving business too!
I have been listening. Lou Dobbs did a piece on this. It's getting bad for those two.
Lawrence, I was getting a haircut in Bothell, WA last week and started talking to the guy in the chair ahead of me. He was an bank CEO and now insurance guy. We really agreed on the mess JPM and WAMU are in. I realized that he needed to be reminded that the stock is not dead. He thanked me.
Sounds like JPM is getting stock brokers to gently swindle people out of some of their shares under false pretense or something... imho.
That's what I see; no seller - WMI, a confused broker; FDIC, and a super greedy buyer; JPM, all greased by a confused Treasury Secretary; Paulson.
Cool, and thanks!
What I am seeing is that once the powers at work are able to isolate some bad guys doing bad things without a doubt, e.g. Ken Lewis concealing important info from share holders, the blame, sometimes called the paint, will be on the banking execs.
Next, paint Hank Paulson, who is gone and from the Bush Admin, and then expand the investigation to net other secret conversations and the case for WMI is bolsters without directly implicating JPM, the gov's bank.
The fine art....
the rest of the dominos will fall more easily without the blame landing solely on the FDIC. For example, bank leaders compromised share holder trust, then ex Treasury guy under Bush; Paulson lied and leaked and cheated, and then banks were lost in a bind and the the outcome is a morass that really happened due to Paulson's panicky procedures and the missteps of the "free market" leadership such as Ken Lewis. He had a chance to protect himself but was victimized by the confusion.
Sheila Bair is supposed to be like a public servant and the FDIC is the last bastion of "security" in the banking system. So, it doesn't really help to damage the FDIC in the public forum and the rely on the FDIC to insure the banks we are trying to reestablish. The paint needs to be on the past Treasury and some of the top bank execs who can go away anyway.
All my speculative opinion.
My wild speculation is that during the Geitner hearing on Tuesday something, a nod, a small comment, a quiet answer to some reporter's question in the halls of Congress indicated that the WAMU thing is going to be cleared up in favor of WMI soon. This is complete speculation but since Geitner was out in public he may, or one of his aides, may have indicated something to someone in the halls.
My wild speculation is that during the Geitner hearing on Tuesday something, a nod, a small comment, a quiet answer to some reporter's question in the halls of Congress indicated that the WAMU thing is going to be cleared up in favor of WMI soon. This is complete speculation but since Geitner was out in public he may, or one of his aides, may have indicated something to someone in the halls.
The question,"Any chance..." must be answered with a "yes" because you use the word, "any", and of course there is some chance.
Try rethinking your question so you can extract more valuable information from the world around you, my friend.
Sizable buys are going through above Ask and then several small trades at lower bid is going through. I think it accumulation and flipping. I'm not so sure about exactly how this is done in real time by MMs. This is part of the mystery of the stock market for me.
Level II shows the MMs are keeping it down by buying small chunks at the lower bid. It's being held down, imho.
Based on the big news about Ken Lewis and BOFA and Paulson today, we are much closer to getting what we want here. Paulson is clearly being routed out as are other banking tyrants.
This is setting the stage for a settlement, imho.
Thanks for posting all that today BigWill.
My education continues. I am collecting this bits and pieces and circulating them.
Dude!
There is no doubt that the 500 billion is being put up for just this type of problem; boondoggles by the banking system, i.e. FDIC / JPM and OTS.
That money will positively effect the whole picture, at least temporarily, and make it much easier for all parties to settle. The judge is suppose to follow the law and many people on this board think she will rule in favor of WMI and thus FDIC and JPM will have to have the money to pay up. If they don't the law suit will go on and and on and that will cost too much for the Obama Admin to back that. Dragging this on will create more uncertainty that we don't need. After all, all bankers want to know if their holding company property can be stolen by OTS/ FDIC / and some large bank.
The main stream news is so full of b.s. so don't put too much stock in the headlines.
That's what I was thinking: a reorg plan can simply state the facts as WMI sees them and plan with those facts.
good reminder.
Due to the businesses I am in, I am seeing an renewed interest in moving large sums out of Euros and into USDs, FYI.
Brilliant comment, along with lots of good ones tonight.
I think was WaS says is correct.
The reason people make mistakes is usually because they don't have all the facts. That is what you are here for!
I try to stick to the issues that I feel I know something about.
If you know something please present it in a way that is understandable, verifiable, and logical - less emotion and more facts, as you have done here in your last post. Thanks!
I needed that, though I am not blaming specific people or laws, I am attempting to hold those responsible for this mess to a higher standard... oh, wait, that's us.
So, let's just accurately describe our own knowledge and experience and publish it where it can be read and used by thoughtful citizens.
The lawsuit by WMI against the FDIC does not prevent or assure reorganization.
WMI is in BK. They will submit a plan and the court will look at it and other factors presented by the creditors and then rule. The BK court is supposed to specify the path to resolution for both the debtor and creditors according to BK law in the law book.
The complexity and considerations in this BK case include the lawsuit for damages filed by WMI against the FDIC because there is income potential there and there are costs incurred in legal fees. The outcome of that case has a bearing on the BK case.
This is where I stop my analysis. I'm no lawyer.
Grey,
Very nice find.
"Counsel to JPMorgan Chase in its acquisition of all deposits, assets and certain liabilities of Washington Mutual’s banking operations from the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC), as well as the related stock offering.'"
The operative word here is "the". They are saying, without a doubt, that there is an offering.
Nicky11,
You are going to be fine in 09!
I should have added that!
lol
Since it is Saturday and I feel philosophical I will venture this:
People in the banking and political system are as hard headed as people get, imho. The rational for a good fight seems so logical to the managers of large funds. After all, it is us or them.
Thoreau said that man's mind's ability to rationalize is unlimited.
This is the stage upon which Sheila Bair, Jamie Dimon, Judge Walrath and WMI stands now. Will they rationalize a fight as good and necessary or find a peaceful resolution that uses less resources and heals differences quickly? If they can't see a path to resolution I recommend a good fight!
Approve the Plan! Shake and make up. Close the book on this and let history be written; they compromised, apologized and moved on! You can do it. Approve the plan. You can do it.
We have better things to do than fight, like figure out the proper regulatory system to avoid the mistakes WAMU made, and the even worse mistake the FDIC made when they undervalued the assets.
Was the greater good served when they decided to prop up JPM with WAMU? Maybe, but that time is over now, TARP is there, and JPM should make a self respecting deal with all involved while they still can.
Look, know one knows what might have happened. Letting Lehman go was a mistake, they say. I think letting JPM go might have been a mistake too, but letting WAMU go for a dime on the dollar was definitely a mistake. IMHO.
JPM can't win unless they recognize the value in what they have. What goes around comes around and this war is not over unless JPM wants it over.
Approve the Plan.
My best advice for long term value assessment is to under promise and over deliver to yourself!
A modest valuation for WAMUQ for the next month is .50 a share.
A modest valuation for WAMUQ for next 3 months is 8.00 a share.
It goes up from there; stock swap is calculated based on current price of JPM shares and maybe a 3 to one swap, e.g. $35 divided by 3 is about $11. See? No one can say with surety.
But, if you want the up close and personal legal maneuvering that will result in the "final" valuation, which if you are long is only realized upon you selling, I refer you to posts by Mordicai: http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/profile.asp?user=66584 and
Bopfan on Yahoo board.
imho
As an observer, with limited access, it is naturally annoying to be waiting for the players and their filings.
We get to see the bills from the lawyers more than a month after the fact. It's clear that they are working and making progress but, as you say, it is going to be ugly if something of a settlement doesn't come down soon.
I wrote an irate email with resource links to Senator Maria Cantwell's office yesterday, after calling and getting a specific email address of an office assistant. He said he would be sure to get it to the "right" people. I prefer he give it to the "left" people, (lol), frankly, but either way, I think Senator Cantwell will get my message: address the issue in the public forum, be a leader, don't let this huge story undermine your pact to lead and represent your constituents' interests!